Real recovery includes the WS bringing down the walls of protection for the affair.

Did I get all of the details? No - I didn't ask for all - but my husband was willing to share - and that was the most important part. Whatever I chose to know, he gave.

Unwillingness to talk is a good indication of a false recovery - or at very least a continuation of selfishness and entitlement, and an unwillingness to do the work on self required to get the promotion from WS to S again.

I wish that my FWW would read that. Discussing anything about the A is essentially off-limits now. In fact, she found a quote from WH's SAA to back her up: "Instead of focusing their attention on the mistakes of the past, I encourage couples to focus on the present and future. They should NOT dwell on the affair but focus on rebuilding their marriage. Every time the affair is mentioned, love units are withdrawn from both Love Banks. So the less time spent talking about the affair, the couple is already painfully aware of the mistakes they made and there's no value in being reminded of what they already know."

MIM, that advice from SAA presumes she followed his other most pertinent advice and was RADICALLY HONEST about her affair. Without that essential step, there WILL BE NO RECOVERY. She jumped over Step One to Step TEN. Show her this:

1. Honesty

The first extraordinary precaution to avoid your lover is to tell your husband all about your affair, and the decision you have made to restore your love for him. Then promise to keep telling him the truth about every aspect of your life, so you never again have a secret second life where you are tempted to hurt him behind his back.

Honesty and openness is one of the best ways to prevent yourself from being inconsiderate of your husband's feelings. It was your friend's threat to reveal all to your husband that motivated you to separate from your lover. Your friend wanted to shed to light of day on the things you were doing in secret to protect your husband. But you should do it yourself. Go right to your husband with the facts. If you had been honest about your budding relationship with your lover from the beginning, it would never have developed into an affair.

You may be afraid that once your husband knows the facts about your ongoing affair, he will leave you. Quite frankly, I think he has the right to make that decision. If, faced with the facts he decides to divorce you, you lose your option to restore your relationship with your him. But you simply cannot build a relationship on lies and deception. Dishonesty will never get you to your goal of loving your husband again. So it's better to get all of the cards out on the table now and build your marriage the right way, even if there is a chance that your husband will throw in the towel before you have a chance to reconcile.

Another reason you may be reluctant to tell your husband the truth is that he might have a violent reaction to what you have done. If you are afraid of his reaction, separate from him first, and then tell him the truth in a public place or with friends who can protect you. If your husband cannot control his temper once he knows the facts, then I see no hope of saving your marriage. Honesty is so important in marriage that if the threat of violence prevents honesty, I don't believe you will ever have a good marriage.

Besides, dishonesty does not prevent violence in marriage, it encourages it. If your honesty brings out violence in your husband, your dishonesty would enrage him even more, once he discovers that you've lied to him.

If you think your husband may divorce you or become violent when you are honest with him, I encourage you to be honest anyway, before you begin your plan for reconciliation. If he cannot accept the truth, no plan of reconciliation will work.




http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5065_qa.html

MIM ~ Melody is right on the money.

Once there has been full disclosure and the BS is satisfied, the couple SHOULD move past and face the future.

But not until.

Secrets build walls between spouses.

I remember that some time ago there was a couple on this site who did what I would call a "contained" sharing of details. They,too, were trying to figure out how to move on yet deal with the past. They set aside a weekend. The BS wrote out all their questions ahead of time. That weekend focused sharing all the history. I don't remember what they did to not bring things up again. But, I do remember that both were trying to make a concerted effort to honor the other's needs and not drag things out indefinitely

My BS wanted to know every detail. Times, places, things that happened, etc. I know why he wants to know but just wish we could begin the first step to recovery without dwelling on the past. It hurts me to talk about the items. In my cause however, I needed him to pull the truth out of me, I was not strong enough my self to come out. He is my support system and I love him for that. I just wish I could be his as well. But for the time being he is distancing himself to find out what is best for him in the future.

Sassygirl, getting the truth out IS the first step in recovery. That is how a BS begins to heal and makes his/her decision about whether or not to stay in the marriage. Being open and honest also rebuilds trust.

Thanks everyone....He tells me he is embarrassed and ashamed of what he did....he says it wasn't sexual it wasn't like that she was someone to hang out with and have fun with....I have a hard time with that as he told me she tried to give him 2 BJs but both were not successful I guess he couldn't get it up....he says they never had intercourse.....but I have no clue what he did to her....I know he kissed her but that is all he will share he keeps saying it wasn't like that......but when we are in bed together my mind starts to run wild and I'm wondering did he do this with her......somedays I'm fine others I'm not....I'm going to send the letter above to him and go from there......we have another therapy session this evening I'll see what that brings.....Thanks again everyone!

Boy do I ever wish MY WS would read this post and understand what it is saying.

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Unwillingness to talk is a good indication of a false recovery - or at very least a continuation of selfishness and entitlement, and an unwillingness to do the work on self required to get the promotion from WS to S again.


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This is where we are at and she refuses to discuss anything, unless it's my shortcomings in her eyes.

Eagle,

I am a FWW and understand where your wife is coming from. I can remember every time my BS would bring up the A I would get very angry with him and start an agruement about something that was way off of the subject. I did this b/c I was still hiding the truth. Looking back, I wish I would have let him badger me enough that it made me break down and tell everything, this happened but just last week when he would ask a muplite amount of questions about it and I knew there was no getting around it. Now I can talk open and freely about it. I am very embarressed about what happened still but know that in order for my BS to move forward and try to overcome what happened I need to answer any question he throws my way.

SG,

Thank you.

I feel the need to chime in again here. I've been asking this question to family members and friends over the weekend. None of them have ever been through anything like this, but they still had varying opinions. I decided to ask my pastor who has counseled many marriages on infideltiy. He told me the WS needs to tell everything. He said you cannot build a foundation (relationship) on half the truth. He said not only do they have to tell you everything for you but for themself as well. They need to repent for everything they did, not just what they think you want to hear. His last comment to me was "The truth will set you free."

Now, I'm sure WS's will still lie because they feel they are actually doing us a favor for not telling us everything....again selfish. But as my pastor told me and I will give you the same advice, when you ask for the "whole truth", make sure you tell your WS you don't want to find out they were lying down the road, so they need to be totally honest now!

IMO, I don't feel I need to know details of the actual sexual acts. I want to know where, when, what did you talk about, when were you with her, where, what time, how long, etc.

I hope you get what you are looking for.

-CO

Thanks for the information......just coming to this board helped me so much......I guess what bothers me most is his you should be over this by now attitude.....I'm trying to figure out if I think I can ever get over it never mind when.....somedays I feel like I want to know everything and other days I think why do I want to know.....either way he isn't telling.....just keeps saying it wasn't like that it wasn't physical we didn't have sex.....I'm still trying to figure out what I want to know......

I understand this, but is there a point of no return after which it is simply too late. I don't think my FWH was completely honest with me and frankly I am not sure he remembers things the way they actually were.

So much of his affair was him being manipulated by OW and reacting to her out of fear of what she would do next to destroy our marriage that he spent months on the verge of a breakdown.

Our recovery has been very difficult for both of us and I think at this point, if he had a miraculous memory recovery that he needed to share with me, it would possibly destroy our recovery to date.

I have accepted that there was probably more to things than he has told me, but the details are really not as important as they were two years ago.

For me, it is enough to know that we are still together and have figured out where we were that made us suseptable to OW's advances. We've made so many positive changes to ourselves and our marriage.

That said, I don't think that I can handle reliving the past anymore that we already have. Maybe I am a coward, but I have heard enough. So if he ever needs to confess more at some point, I don't think it would be fair to do so at my expense just to make himself feel better. I, more that he was the victim here.

Who

I too had to know every single gory detail...I needed to know for many reasons...

*To see if my imagination was worse then reality
*To know what I had to deal with/forgive and to get over
*So that OW would have no secrets or power left over me
*To change the images for him from good to bad
****Most important reason was to see if he was capable of telling me the whole truth and facing what he'd done.

By the way...what happened sexually wasn't as bad as what I had imagined, I learned he struggled with SF with her (he's never, ever had a problem with me in that dept). So for me it was good to learn the details.

Cheated On...I did learn the whole truth and then my FWH took a polygraph to prove he'd told me everything and only the truth....He dreaded that test like the plague but afterwards he used your pastor's works....HE FELT THE TRUTH HAD SET HIM FREE...HE WAS SO RELIEVED!!!

Who


I think what you said is right on....You KNOW you have enough information to move forward. IMO, I would say, yes, there is a point in time where you just have to move forward. If I were in your place, I wouldn't want to know any new details either. I would just hope and pray I don't "accidentally" find out some new truth I didn't know about before.

I believe the whole truth should be told immediatley or very soon after D-day for both the WS and BS's benefit. If some BS's don't feel they need the whole truth, I guess that's up to them. I believe my pastor that it would be much harder to build a relationship without knowing the whole truth though.

forevertogether.......You actually gave your husband a polygraph??? That is awesome! I'm sure you were both relieved after that was over. Glad to see you worked it out together!

-CO

I asked how many times and where. I didn't want to know any more. I already knew enough to cause me more pain than I thought was possible.

I have since wondered if I should have asked more, if I would resent not taking the opportunity to ask more details. But I have read enough posts here to know that for me, I have done the right thing.

Additional details will serve no useful purpose in my situation.

I wanted the details so I could make a more informed decision about how I felt about what went on, when, how long, emotional vs. physical/sexual, the mind set of my spouse, the OW, the degree of betrayal, lying, etc. I wanted to know what to look for in terms of triggers from my exWS or the OW. I was tired of being blind-sided when someone I barely knew would mention something about the situation.

My oldest son was at his summer job. A new employee started. He said something about going out for a drink after work. She said she was in Recovery and no longer drank. My exWS and his OW had met at their AA/NA meetings. My son mentioned that his ex stp-father was in Recovery. And got talking a little bit about the whole messy affair, which had resulted in an OC. This woman says, "Oh, you're talking about WS and OW, aren't you? We go to the same meetings. I thought that what he did to your mother was terrible." I didn't even remember this woman! What she said wasn't bad, but it came out of nowhere.

Also, I did have a desire to "punish" my WS. If he was uncomfortable sharing the details of his affair, tough. That didn't begin to cover the feelings I experienced throughout this whole mess. Not only did it involve what the WS actually did, but all the lying that went on on top of that. Let's face it. My exWS must have gotten something good out of the affair, or he wouldn't have done it, or stayed in it so long. I got nothing good.