GF...

He would only have a Slander case if what you were saying was untrue...it's not...you are merely advising them of certain truths that may well be causing the misallocation of company funds...it's up to them to then inspect what they expect...

I do not see the downside to keeping your NOT remaining anonymous...

1. First, doing so is against MB principles as they apply to exposure...and why are you even bothering to expose if you are uninterested in BUILDING YOUR MARRIAGE...if that is not your interest, then your Dad is right, it's just vindictive...

2. In my view, if company funds and company time, which affects in a very real way their bottom line(read: FUNDS), are being used, then the company will NOT care who sent the letter...they will be grateful...If nothing else, OM's use of company time and money-through land line company phone calls, (company owned)cell phone calls, text messages IS costing the company, using the company computer on company time for conducting an illicit relationship regardless of whether he used funds for his trips with your WW--so YES, in their view, OM IS COSTING THEM $$$$...that will be of great concern to them...Have you given BB the company's website addy? I think that you should...

3. Further, remember that a REAL PERSON is going to be reading your letter...most people do find ADULTERY to be SHOCKING...couple that with loss of company monies...WOW, to me that gives your letter much greater weight...

4. Sending an anonymous letter may be read as fictional because there would be no person willing to provide proof...people with proof have no need to hide...you have proof...you have their emails!

5. Further you have the fact that your wife's position may call the OM's company's relationship to her company into question...

6. How are you going to ask what action they intend to take if you don't sign it? There is no implied need for them to hurry without a source on the other side holding them accountable for their response...You are just looking to cause waves for him...question him...the company choosing to fire him would merely be a "perk" here, IMO...remember, we want CHAOS within the affair!

7. Finally, the purpose is for exposure to bust up the affair, while also defining your motives to both the OM and your WW...he needs to understand just what he's getting into here...your WW needs to clearly see that her relationship to OM will NOT ever be seen as legitimate...That you will not just lay down here, instead you are "manning up"! Your wife also needs to see just how much you are willing to fight for her and your family...that won't be important to her now, but should you recover your marriage it will be viewed by her as hugely heroic...she will respect you for it...women do NOT love men that they cannot respect...

I'm probably missing some other reasons...but I wanted to get this post in...I'll post anything else that I think of later...

Mrs. W

HOW? WHY would you be thrown out of your home for telling the TRUTH??? Your attorney makes NO sense to me...She is NOT willing to FIGHT for you which means that she is NOT on your team...It's very clear to me that she does not see what is happening to you as the INJUSTICE that it is...It makes me wonder what in her own life has affected her perspective in this way...Just my honest opinion...


Mrs. W

How 'bout you slapping a RO on the OM 2 keep him from coming near your house, in addition 2 your DD?

Do what your lawyer advised you to do....She is the one who knows your entire situation and has assessed your situation basis the law in your jurisdiction. That being said, talk to SIS about his lawyer - real bulldog as I remember and may be a bit more aggressive for you????

Regards,

BB

***A lawsuit based on what, GF?***
***Slander.***

Well, technically that would be libel since it's in writing. "Slander is spoken, libel is literary."

But yeah, I cannot imagine that telling the truth is libeling or slandering anybody. If that were the case, how is anybody brought to trial for anything, or made to answer for any sort of wrongdoing at all?

And in addition - now do you see why affairs just flourish? Everybody scrambles to cover it all up. Nobody wants to touch it with a 100-foot pole. And so it thrives.
Mulan

GF, get a new lawyer. If you can't get another one, start asking for the Washington State statutes that she is using to justify these strange suggestions.

I would think MB folks would know about instances where PO's were issued or lawsuits alledging slander or libel...whatever...filed on BS's doing exposure in the OP's workplace? I can't remember a single instance. Does anyone else?

I replied with "On what grounds? Telling the truth?"

This is her response:

Harassment. You're going to look like the angry, vindictive husband. Remember Washington is a no-fault state. It will only be used against YOU not her. She's going to allege abusive use of conflict, harassment, you're unstable, angry, etc. You cannot save your marriage by attacking her or OM.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I know funds are low and I know its late in the game, GF. But, you really need to fire your attorney. She has demonstrated time after time she is a "reaction" attorney that hasn't done anything PROactive in terms of strategy that is in alignment with you. She waits for things to happen, then reacts.

At a minimum, you need to remind her who works for who.

Jo

***You're going to look like the angry, vindictive husband.***

And this is a problem because -- ?
Mulan

No kidding. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

I guess people should not get angry when their spouse has an Order of Protection filed against them for bogus reasons which requires them to leave their home and child whilst their wife has her boyfriend fly on in and take up residence in HIS home for the week-end, followed by his wife leaving not a even a week later for 6 whole days for a shag-a-thong honeymoon with the same sleazball worm of a man.

How dare you appear angry, GF. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Can you tell your attorney has really pissed me off. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

And you're not seeking marriage advice from an attorney.

She doesn't understand that exposure is not "attacking", although we all know that's how it's perceived by the masses.

For different reasons, I don't think the letter to the employer is a good idea now. I think you should spend your energy on fighting for your daughter and yourself, assuming your wife is he11 bent on chasing her fantasy and she will not be deterred. This is not giving up - it's changing your near term goals > what's best for you and your daughter without your wife.

JMHO

WAT

Can you explain further WAT? Yours is the first response on MB that said not to expose, so I'm very curious as to why.

Do you think it will impact my ability to win custody? Or that I should continue to just sit by and watch my WW destroy her custody case by continuing to fly off with OM?


Ohh, I looked into the net detective thing. It's only $29, and that gets you unlimited use for 3 years?!?!

I'm signing up today!

Hello all,

We had a conversation with GF last night and I thought I'd divulge some pertinent information that may alter the advice we all are giving. I presume GF doesn't mind.

Unfortunately, Mediation in the State of Washington is not binding. It is more a formal settlement process. They are to negotiate and hopefully come to a mutually agreeable divorce and custody arrangement. If not, they go to court and the court date is set for AUGUST, 2006 already. I don't see WW backing down for her 'oh so gracious' offer of 50-50 custody whereas GF is not accepting of less than primary custody wherein she gets custody every other weekend and a weeknight (which is more time with DD5 than WW has spent with DD in the last year). GF is a SAHF with the single exception of his duty to the military reserves (I think one weekend a month) so I think his stance should remain firm.

Thus, the Mediation process is a great stall technique for him to work on restoring the marriage, nothing more and unless he "settles" with wife, nothing is going to be solidified with custody until August at the earliest. IMHO, August is far to long for GF to sit back and do nothing.

Of course, GF's primary concern is custody of his daughter. I pointed out that if he can restore the marriage he'll end up with 100% custody, jointly, and that would be best for all involved. Otherwise, he's got 4 months to think about how to fight the court battle.

How to restore the marriage? Follow tried and true MB principles of course. First, Plan A...EXPOSE.

We recommened FULL and IMMEDIATE one swoop Exposure on OM side (he's done with his side). WHY?

1. To expose the affair to the light of day, to turn the light on and no longer sit back and allow it to THRIVE in secrecy.

2. To take control of the direction of this. GF will feel better and in control by taking the fight to her instead of allowing her to intimidate and control the situation. In essence, MAN UP.

I know the concerns about wife booting him from the house again. IMO, last time WW filed a PPO against him partly because of exposure and partly cause of the phone interference he was running at home. Part of her motivation was to get GF to stop. To get him to fear and discontinue disrupting her affair. HOWEVER, there is no controlling how WW reacts, GF is advise to ACT instead of doing nothing...If she files a PPO, however, the following applies:

a. GF had custody 9 of the 15 days he was out of the house last time she filed and she'll dump DD5 off with him again;

b. It makes WW look worse when all is said and done;

c. GF can document stuff;

d. It would only be short term as WW does not want GF out permanently cause she can't handle DD5 be herself;

e. It would be the last time because GF would be done exposing anyway (not to mention because he is done she may not be as motivated to "punish" him, exposure is complete and she can't reverse it);

f. WW is much more concerned with her addiction, the PPO, the attorneys, the court, GF, DD5 are all a distraction to her primary focus...she'll be mad but as long as access to OM by phone and email are allowed she'll be OK (i.e.-just don't mess with her and the boundary thing for a few days or a weeks and stricly avoid any confrontation she can use against you for a PPO).

Don't forget also, WW's attorney was against her filing the PPO last time. Her attorney came on the case after she had filed it and quickly assisted with it's dismissal. He did not help her prepare or consult her at all last time. He knows it ultimately will not look favorable to WW when the custody evaluators look into it and he'll likely say the same this time. Her attorney is only concerned with winning the case in the end, not running around filing PPO's against a non-abusive husband.

My opinion remains that GF should do full exposure, in writing (so such exposure can not be misconstrued for other than a controlled, professional, curteous list of the facts and request for assistance saving his marriage). I think the annonymous letter to one boss will be less effective for "saving his marriage" than a signed proper letter to all his bosses. They should investigate either way. The theft of time and resources is well documented and should be easy for them to uncover; but, it's the knowing eyes around the office, the judgements, and the ONE BOSS with experience with infidelity that sits him down that will be most effective. The utlimate goal...get OM to scurry like a cockroach and step-off.

OM is a monetarily wealthy man (I can just tell that GF is wealthy is many more ways). WW is awed by him and aspires to share in his wealth. Might be a top emotional need. Don't know. But from how I see it, GF's best bet to save his marriage is to be a strong man, stand up proud and out front, with total disregard of the consequences he has no control over anyway, and eventually get OM to back off. My prediction now is that WW will not end it on her own (her side will take a year or two). Getting OM to break up with her is GF's best bet and given exposure, 3000 miles of separation, a child involved, OM being single with money...he can surely find another available woman. GF, with our assistance, must find a way to keep up the pressure.

As far as what GF's lawyer says. I disagree. The actual court hearings for custody will be in August at the earliest. Because GF's exposure will be DONE, he'll have the next four months to appear in control and not "abusive". He'll have four months of them "clinging in chaos" as the world passes judgement and WW acting NUTS. 4 months to document and take care of DD5 more and more as the infidels try desparately to save their relationship. Finally, sure they can bring up the EXPOSURE as GF behaving irrationally FOUR MONTHS FROM NOW, however, GF can clearly and calmly demonstrate that he was utilizing proven professional advised by Dr. Harley principle in order to save his marriage with WW. It was NOT vindictive or abusive and IT IS and was done in the best interests of DD5. The evaluators are not going to be swayed by this incident compared to the boxes of evidence and documentation GF will have.

Finally, from what I see, the WORST possible outcome in this case is a 50-50 split of custody after a long hard fought battle. Maybe there would be a 10% chance WW gets primary custody because your state is so messed up on this issue. However, WW can't handle it anyway. She pass DD5 off to you for a whole litany of selfish reasons. That won't change. She won't be allowed to take the child to Virginia so she'll be stuck handing her off to you. Since you fought custody you will always remain in a better position to readdress the issue with the court. Many states you can petition for modification of custody orders every two years. So you'll keep on documenting and hopefully eventually win primary custody. One thing is for sure, you daughter will be adult one day and she'll always see and know just how badly you wanted her and fought for her. In the end, right always wins.

Ultimately, it's your life GF and I will respect your decision(s) either way. When you choose a path it becomes GF's path, not mine, WATs, BB's, Resilient's, etc. Only you reap the benefits and accept the consequences. Giving advice is much easier than taking it, however, IMHO, the worst thing you can do is to do NOTHING. I know how difficult this is for you and we are praying for you and DD5.

Mr. Wondering

probably left some points out but I got to run.

Ditto what Mr. W said. Sounds like a battle plan to me.

In His arms.

GF - mine is just a hunch, and was based on what I took as your insistence on exposing to OM's workplace openly, i.e., not anonymous.

This is my logic, not in any particular priority:

Workplace exposure has a dubious track record. Once in a while, and more frequently in US military settings, it will get noticed. More often than not, the employer doesn't care unless the bottom line is really affected. Appealing to the employer's morals, absent some indication they actually exist, is a shot in the dark. Unless you know, I don't know OM's standing with this employer, I don't even know what kind of business it is. Is he an important player, or does he sweep the floors? Details like this may argue one way or the other, but not knowing them, I err on the side of caution that non-anon exposure may do more harm than good. If there was a supervisor/subordinate relationship between OM and your wife, I'd say you're already late, hoping for a sexual harrassment angle - but even then I'd recommend an anonymous allegation for the reasons BB elaborated earlier.

Next, I think you ought to focus on gaing the best possible outcome for you and your daughter, assuming your wife is out of the marriage. This means letting her go in whatever direction she chooses. You've made a gallant effort and you have nothing to be ashamed of. You are winning. You will win. The prize may be differrent than what you've been aiming for, but no less satisfactory in the end. Your wife is he11 bent on chasing her fantasy and she will not be deterred by anyone other than herself. Her stubbornness reminds me of my XW. I really think the best thing for you is to sit back and not attempt to deny her her will. Doing so or attempting so makes you the ready villain. Not matter what happens, you will be a fault so long as you stay in the drama. Letting her go with no further intervention on your part puts all the balls squarely in her court. She sinks or swims by herself. My money is on a crash. Don't get in the way, because you'll be blamed. After the crash, all bets are off and anything may happen.

This may be hard to hear, but it's just my current take. Others may disagree.

I admit my thoughts are influenced by my personal story. I eventually let go and allowed my wife to seek her "must have" divorce. Boy, did she get it - and a new hubby. She really showed me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Wanna bet who's now in a LOT better place?

WAT

Hey, Mr. W. I'm not a SAHF...I do work 8-5 Monday through Friday. And I also have the reserves on the first weekend of the month.

I agree with you WAT. My WW is not going to be detered from the relationship with OM. She could care less how I feel, or if people look at her wierd about it; she is prone to addiction and has very little to no self control.

OM...I just don't know. All I can do is attest to how deeply and quickly involved I was with WW when we were having our long distance relationship. I didn't care at all when people gave me a hard time for "dating" someone I met over the internet...playing cards. Looking back, if someone had exposed my relationship with her I would have been unaffected...I was in love.

I don't know how OM is going to take exposure...I know that he is still denying they are having an affair to ex-gf. At least WW openly admits that she is "emotionally attached" to him.

I'm very tempted ot just go out and expose...consequences be damned! But is that in the best interest of me and DD? Emotionally...most certainly. Legally...I don't know.

It's a tough decision to make, and one that I'm going to wait on until I speak with another more experienced and aggressive lawyer.

SIS...can I get your lawyer's contact info please!?

FWIW, I think Mr. W's reasoning is sound. My only quibble is with anonymous vs open work place exposure. Whatever you choose to do, I'll continue to support you as long as you don't get whacky. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

WAT

Well WW just called. She was asking about daycare for DD while I work this weekend.

I matter of factly told her what she needed to know, and then she asked:

ww: What's wrong?

me: nothing.

ww: you've got attitude going on

me: I told you before I'm not happy that you are on vacation visiting the man you are having an affair with. When you are there, I don't feel the need to talk to you. When you are home, I'd love to talk to you.

ww: ok, you've made your point (OM was right there, I heard her say something to him about his truck when I first picked up, so she probably didn't want to get into an arguement about our marriage in front of him)

me: yup...click.


I'm not going to be happy go lucky while she's off having fun with OM. I will plan A her with no regrets when she's here. She'll get to choose which she likes more.

By the way, GF...dont use the word "affair" when talking to her. That actually sounds romantic. Instead, your sentence should have been:

"me: I told you before I'm not happy that you are on vacation visiting the man you are committing adultery with. When you are committing adultery, I don't feel the need to talk to you. When you are home, I'd love to talk to you."

It doesnt allow it to be nice and romantic. Instead, the word I used makes it look sleezy and disgusting. Which it is, of course.

In His arms.

Gotcha...btw, thanks to net detective, I've found out the first OM's wife's name, and their home phone number!

She is getting added to my exposure list.

SIS got back to me with his lawyer info. I contacted her, and am waiting a response.