Okay, keep adding names to the exposure list as they occur to you. The rule of thumb is to include anyone who can reasonably be expected to be able to put some pressure on the affair. If your wife doesn't work, that cuts out a very good place to expose. Perhaps she belongs to local organizations such as Women's Club or Junior League? Pastor or priest is a good source for allies in your war against the alien.

As far as when you're going to get an apology, that won't happen until your WW has completed withdrawal from the OM, and you two are well into recovery. It's difficult for a WS to face the cruelty with which they've acted toward those they love and they avoid facing it for a long time. Therefore, the remorse is a long time coming also. Don't expect it anytime soon but be watchful for it. Often the WS will express remorse in their actions before they have the courage to put it into words. Be strong, Qbert.

I guess I knew that an apology wasn’t coming anytime soon!

I just got done reading KariJean’s post “I'm the WW, but want to be the FWW very badly”
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...&PHPSESSID=

And wonder if I should print this out for her to read or give her the link to the post. I think her feelings at this time are very similar to KariJean’s when she first started posting. My biggest hesitation is that she will come across my posts and that may not be too helpful in our recovery.

Qbert

Slow down, bert.

I'm not convinced she's sincere about the NC. Agreeing to IC before MC could be a stalling tactic. I hope I'm wrong.

Do not underestimate the deviousness of an addict. They will do anything to get or keep their fix.

Please exercise caution when you think of educating her with MB stuff and posts from other WSs. What did Steve advise in this area? She has to cross the line to want the marriage more than her fix to be receptive to logic. It seems there's a tipping point - but it's hard to predict when it'll happen, if at all. Premature education does more harm than good unless it's just gentle seed planting.

Don't be in a hurry, OK?
HA! For many of us it's never - or at least not so far! I never expect to hear anything like that. I don't say this to dampen your spirits, just to bracket the potential outcomes.

WAT

WAT,

I woke up this morning and she stayed in bed. She wouldn't talk or even acknowledge me. So I fed and dressed the kids and told her I was leaving. Hopefully she pulled herself out of bed to get S7 on the bus. I don’t think she was sincere about NC either.

Good advice, I’ll slow it down and just keep planting seeds. I didn’t get a call back from SH before the exposure happened, so I’m going make an appointment with hime today to get some advice.

Qbert

She may be having a significant emotional event that seems to be needed in many cases - if not all. Be available for her but do not expect anything in return. As hard as it might be for you to do, validate her misery. You're the lighthouse.

WAT

I agree that some very significant emotional event will be needed for her to stop contact with OM. Hopefully this has happened with the exposure although I'm not holding my breath.

I’ll continue to be there for her with my mantra!

Thanks for the support!

Qbert

Now you've got it, Q. Baby steps--keep planting seeds.

WAT brought out a good point. Don’t back away on MC. She can do IC while you and she do MC. You’re talking about two one hour sessions a week probably and that’s not a huge expenditure of time.

Also, what have you done about her cell phone? She should give it up as a gesture of good faith. If she doesn’t, it’s a signal she is NOT willing to accept NC. That can be your trigger to initiate the exposure phase.

Once it sinks in that you have access to all her cell phone calls, she may turn to IM and email. Do you have a keylogger on her PC? It might be a good idea to get one on it if you don’t already. Perhaps you should also set up an administrator’s password on her PC so she can’t lock you out?

If you don’t have one, here’s a good one: http://www.ardamax.com/ and here’s another:
http://www.actualkeylogger.com/ and a third: http://www.sharewareorder.com/ActMon-Home-Edition-download-30017.htm

Don’t ever apologize for snooping, btw. I noticed you didn’t during your confrontation with her. That’s good. When my WW complained about me spying on her, I told her some people needed spying on. Don’t you do that; it’s a disrespectful judgment but I didn’t know that at the time. Nothing wrong with thinking it though. Just don’t express it.

Okay, Q. Lots of work to do, but you’ve got it rolling now. Let it build up steam. Hang in there.

I will try and get her to change to Jennifer at MB since she said she wouldn't talk with SH after her session. If not i'm going to have to find a pro-marriage MC locally.



Qbert

I'll predict she'll poo poo using Jennifer. Don't push it. Again, I hope I'm wrong.

A good way to go would be to allow her to choose the MC - with your agreement. (Hint: plant the seed for POJA.) But, we're not so naive to believe she'll jump at the chance.

But offer anyway. In the meantime, you call around and try to figure out which MCs are pro-marriage as opposed to "smooth over the divorce." Generate your own approved list and have it in your back pocket.

Remember, half the MCs out there are below average. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

WAT

Okay, I can see the intell value of the cell phone and you're right, she needs one. Changing numbers probably wouldn't accomplish anything either. Go with what you have.

You've got me with the Mac question. Actmon advertises it works on MS Windows only. Actual Keylogger says "all operating systems," and the other one is completely silent about the subject. You can check each of the latter two out, they have a free version, and see if they'll work. Alternately, try a Google search with a search string of {"keylogger" +Mac} and you'll probably find a number of them.

Here's a link to a thread here on MB that discusses other intelligence gathering methods in case you're interested.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rt=all&vc=1

Ok a couple good things happened today and a couple of things that I was hoping wouldn’t have happened.

When WW wife called me at work today she was mad that she doesn’t have set scheduled time away from the kids and said it was my responsibility to find S4 daycare for the next school year. She said she would provide "free daycare" this summer for our boys, but I was responsible to for next fall as she is sick and tired of having to schedule everything. She was trying to bait me into an argument again. I caught myself and told her I would be happy to be in charge of that. Wasn’t the response she was looking for so she hung up. I left work early and stopped by a couple of daycares near by to get information. I showed her when I got home what I had gathered and we discussed and agreed on what would work. I told her I would follow-up tomorrow and get us registered.

When I got home tonight WW was wearing her wedding band again. I think she had taken it off after exposure on Friday and didn’t wear it all weekend. I noticed it missing on Saturday morning but didn’t say anything about it. Maybe is should have said something to her, but I think again she was just trying to bait me.

We took the kids after work tonight to the health club and worked out together. Working out (recreational companionship) is one of her EN’s that I have not been meeting. We had a good time and I think I was able to make a small deposit in her LB.

After the kids went to sleep we talked about my day (not something I have typically done in the past), her day and had a few laughs about the kids. Since her most important EN is conversation I really need to try to meet this need for her. Obviously since her A has been completely over the telephone at this point, Conversation is what she is seeking. She told me after exposure that she needs to have someone that can make her laugh, be quick witted. I'm working on it!

The bad news is she did send two emails to OM today explaining what her day entailed. Although there were no phone calls to/from OM today, she said in her last email that she has some time tomorrow and would like to talk to him. So... NC is out the window. She had been journaling a lot on Sunday and today. I only got a quick peak and saw what appeared to be an attempted rough draft letter explaining why they couldn’t talk or email anymore. The ever optimistic Qbert hopes this is a sign that she is trying to drop OM. Reality is she is deep into this addiction and I would be completely surprised if NC is possible at this point.

So…that’s the day in the life of another BS!
2 steps forward and 2 steps back.

Qbert

Sorry to hear about the backsliding, Q. Confrontations almost NEVER stop the affair dead anyway. Unfortunately, you're going to have to polish that exposure list and start exposing.

I’m trying to think up an Email to OM's business clients that will explain that someone they have contracted to do work has no morals and is currently in the process of destroying a family for his own gratification. Has anybody written such a letter or email? I have plenty of emails between WW and OM to attach to the letter so there will be no doubt what is happening.

My hope is to make the A for OM not worth the effort and embarrassing to his clients.

Any thoughts on this type of approach?

Qbert

Q, I have never seen any such thing in the time I've been on MB. There's nothing new under the sun though. I'll try to get some attention for this idea from a few long-time pros out here, as well as some advice from Mr. Wondering or one of the other attorneys out here.

Your hope to make the affair uncomfortable for the OM is right on target. Good work.

Hi QBert,

Sounds like you are doing a good job of plan A. Keep it up, as you can see it does work if you find a way to stick with it. Most important is to make the changes within yourself permanent and double check yourself over time to make sure that you don't backslide.

Your WW sounds like most and many of the things you describe are similar to what happened to me and my FWW. Mine was a day time stay at home/part time 3rd shift working-mom during the A, which was email and phone based for 9 months. <kicks self for not being more attentive to the conversations she begged me for, at least now when I am at work I drop everything to talk to her when she calls.>

We are DDay+19 months and I still worry and get triggered easily. BUT, things are so much better than they were before the A.

It took 11 months after DDay for FWW to finally write a full and complete NC letter. She half/heartedly tried to break things off, starting on DDay, via email, phone and "one last meeting" (She had to drive 250 miles away for this and dropped our kids off at her parents then disappeared for 2 days). It was almost a year of pure ****** for me to endure, usually each month got better. But I did what I needed to do and I gave credit for every small step she took.

I guess my point is that it can take a very long time to achieve true NC, even with a good plan A. It is next to impossible to force any kind of change however gently that force is applied. I finally realized that leaving the HNHN and other books just laying around did not do any good and MB became a bad word. I finally figured it out, once I stopped obsessing over her and started my own life back in motion things started getting better. She saw that I was diligently trying to change myself for the better. She saw me doing my level best to make things better for her and our marriage.

The last 8 months since NC finally happened has been wonderful compare to the previous couple of years. I don't pretend to be completely out of the woods yet though, but I am comfortable with the fact that love has been restored between us. Now there is hardly anything we do that does not include the other. The biggest thing we separate for is our work day and even then we meet at home for lunch and trade emails as time allows.

It sounds to me like your only mistake is that you are impatient to some degree. Heck, I guess all BS are really. Just remember that the process will take time and there will be many bumps along the way.

Keep up the good work.

I hope that you and your wife will recovery and rebuild.

Thanks Longhorn.

Qbert

Qbert - Be very careful doing what you are considering. You are exposing yourself to potential liability for defamation.

If whatever you say is exactly true, then you may be OK, but that means no opinions etc. - just facts that could easily be proven and verified in court. Truth is a defense most of the time.

If you really want to do this, I would run it by your lawyer first and I mean exactly what you plan to send.

When it comes down to it, this is not a good idea from that perspective and OM probably will sue you. I wouldn't do it unless you don't mind being sued and maybe losing.

Greengan,

Thank you for your post. Did you confront WW each time she had contact with OM or did you let it slide? Because I can look on the web and see her Cell phone calls and emails, I basically see the A dialogue each day. I might as well be on the phone listening to them!

There’s no doubt this is pure He11 and at this point will try anything to get her to stop this A. I do realize that she is going to have to make the decision to try and make the M work herself before she can decide on NC. I really have been remarkably patient with WW up to this point and except for exposure last Friday, LB’s have been minimal or non-existent.

Frankly my IC can’t believe I’ve held out this long because of the access to the A that I have. Don’t get me wrong, IC is supporting me in my efforts to heal this M but she also sees what this is doing to me. It amazes me that BS’s are able to hold out for years with WS’s. I don’t believe I have the stamina or energy to last years of this s*%t. Then again maybe I do when I think what D will do to my boys.

I do think my plan A is one of the things that is keeping her from leaving. I think she is completely baffled by my complete turn around in respects to her EN’s. One of the things I can’t figure how to tackle is how do I meet her EN for affection as she cringes when I just rub her shoulders or try and give her a hug. And forget sexual fulfillment at this point as she has stated that living with me is like living with a brother.

Anyway, thanks Greergan for the reminder to be patient. I will keep telling myself to give it time.

Qbert

Need some advice.

I just checked emails and cell phone calls of WW and see that the phone sex and emails have started back up today. This is the first real contact (phone call and sexually explicit emails) since Friday’s exposure.

So the question of the day is do I confront her again? I think she was so stunned on Friday when I told her that I had seen her emails that I don't think it sunk in that I see and read the emails everyday. Then again maybe she does realize this and doesn't give a crap.

Qbert


Qbert

Thanks for the imput 193296!

I guess I should rethink this tactic.

Or I could just forward all of thier email correspondance with the heading "Would you hire this guy if this was your wife?".

I'm just venting at this point.

Qbert