Hi Folks -

Some prayers would be appreciated this morning, my husband was supposed to come home from a family trip in Louisiana and we had his intervention and rehab all scheduled for Wednesday but he is entertaining staying longer in the south, just to hang out with old buddies (and drink I'm sure). Prayers are much appreciated that his mom will have the right words this morning to convince him to come home (she's there with him) and that the interventinon will go as planned.

Thank you
RH

recovering

Good luck on this one. You know my feelings on recovering anything if your FWH is still dealing with an addiction. The first step in your M recovery is him breaking his addiction.

It is scarey for them because lets face it one of the steps is making amends when possible.

Now normally I would push for trying to make it work but you don't have any children. I can tell you one of the reasons for me staying is my kids.

Almost everything else we have in common including our ages and time together. If I had no kids her and her addiction would have been out of my life.

I am hoping things go well for you but if they don't be thankful his actions do not affect innocent children.

Just an update, thanks for the thoughts and prayers, hubby is coming home as scheduled and intervention is still on.

YOH -

I can understand why you would stay for the kids and maybe wouldn't have if you didn't have them. In my sitiuation my husband and I did have something really special for the majority of our relationship so I don't feel like I can just walk away from that.

It's going to take a long time to ride this out... I know, but I believe God can bring that transformation in his life that will bring him to the place of being a whole sober person.

As far as not wanting to face making amends, he is definitely running from that and numbing himself with the alcohol. I know he doesn't want to have to face feeling all the pain he has caused but I know when he starts working the 12 steps in rehab he will have to face all this and the realities of life. I know he won't come out the same person and that he will probably be pretty selfish, but I'm a pretty patient person so I look forward to the chance to rebuild when he is healthier and of course I have healing, becoming stronger, a lot of work to do with myself anyway.

RH

RH,

I am not trying nor have I tried to say they will be selfish. If I did I am sorry. Their actions may seem selfish but necessary. Part of the reason for the addiction is to escape reality. They no longer have this outlet(hopefully). In time they will have to face the reality, moral inventory, amends but that is much further down the road.

I am being patient with my FWW regarding this but there are times I am resentful. Two to three days a week she goes out and blows off steam at a meeting while I am home watching two kids.

I don't think you should get a Divorce either but at some point you have to do whats best for you.

I have been patient because my Father was an Alcoholic, died from liver failure, and I don't want my children to grow up with an Alcoholic parent. Thats why I am partly here.

I have realized that for me if I didn't have the kids I would not be here.

I personally could not endure this pain if I didn't have the greater good of my childrens wellfair on my mind. You are a better more forgiving person then I am.

Try reading co dependant no more. Forget the author.

YOH -

I can tell you have been through a lot and put up with so much and when you have kids it certainly makes it much more difficult because you are looking out for their best interest. I don't know if this will give you any hope but my dad was an alcoholic, now sober for over 20 years but my mom and the family went through a lot of emotional abuse at the time. Once he got out of rehab he was just focused on staying sober, but eventually my mom and him got into couseling and were able to build a really great marriage.

They now have been married 51 years and they can't keep their hands off each other, actually sometimes it's annoying. LOL! I guess their story gives me hope, that true love prevails and yes I admit I am one of those hopeless romantics, wish I wasn't sometimes.

Well getting off course here, but I take my hat off to you for enduring the pain and staying for the kids. I know God sees that and he will honor you and your family with his blessings because of it.



I do have this book and her other 12 step for codependents book, but I have to laugh at forget the author because I really have struggled with getting through the Codependent No More book. I find her stories and style of writing so annoying, I have not been able to get through the book. I think part of it is she uses some extreme examples and I don't really relate to it that much, but she also has a very wordy style of writing and sometimes I just want her to get to the point. Thats just me I know it is really helpful to some so I'm not knocking it.

RH

See if you have a good role model it is easy to be positive.

Here is what is jacked up for me. Not about affairs but about peoples perspectives. When I was about 23 years old my father was rushed to the hospital. They told us he was going to die from the drinking. Somehow he made it out and lived. They told him if he ever drank again he would certainly die. Guess what the moron did. 7 years of sobriety and he started drinking again. Sure enough 2 years or so later we buried him. So of course I am a pesimist. Not to mention this is my wifes 3rd attempt at sobriety.

I am the biggest enabler in the whole damn world. Wish I could stop that crap.

I hope you are having a good day today.

I think we have very similar situations. I am 35, been with my boyfriend for 17 years and the last 6 months he has changed into a different person. I too want to repair and move on. How do we get them to listen? I have no idea but I can say you are not alone!

So sorry to hear that you are going through this to. I don't know if your boyfriend is drinking heavily but there is some really good advice here from Banyak, Pepperband and Melodylane if you have time to read this thread. I guess what I have learned most through this, is that it isn't really about getting them to change or listen. It's about changing ourselves to be strong, independent, happy, functioning members of society and in doing so often times the change in ourselves is what draws the wayward one back. It's learning not to need the other person anymore, we might want them but we don't "need them to be happy". I know it's hard and sometime it takes the wayward one a long time to come out of the darkness and into the light again... just hang in there.


Best,
RH

thanks. I will read the thread now. This is my first time chatting so I am getting a little lost.
Thanks again. It is nice to know I'm not alone.

Hi RH,

Been following your post since you started...and am a little bit troubled with some of the advice you've been receiving regarding AA.
Albeit well intended, some of it is not accurate.

I'm a 3rd generation recovering alcoholic with 21 yrs sobriety and 5 yrs into affair recovery.

I'm going to lay out the 12 steps of recovery for you the way they were laid out for me...

Remember...AA IS A SPIRITUAL PROGRAM...NOT A RELIGIOUS ONE.

1, 2, 3...are the steps dealing with the here and now...get our butt out of the fire.
(these first 3 steps are designed to give hope to someone who has lost hope and faith.)

4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9...are the steps that deal with the past, from our first memory to our last drink and all the crap in between.

10, 11, & 12...are maintainence steps designed to deal with life today on life's terms.

Even though the steps fall in a particular order, when necessary we can go back and re-do what is required for a particular situation.

Step 1 is the ONLY step that has alcohol mentioned in it, this being said anyone can use the steps in any facet of their life that they find beyond their control. ie: you using the steps and removing the word alcohol, then putting your husbands name in it's place. Then carry on through the rest of the steps with that primary purpose in mind. (coping with your husband's alcoholism and A.)

Alcoholism is a disease that affects the entire family. It is incurable, but, with a solid program of recovery and support it can be forced into remission one day at a time.
The results vary dependant apon the person's commitment.

The alcoholic may not see the changes that are happening after a short period of time, but rest assured they ARE happening as long as rigorous self honesty is first and formost.

There is a text book that alcoholics use for getting and staying sober. It's called the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous and can be found at your local AA central office or possibly Chapters. The central office is listed in the phone book under alcoholics anonymous.

In the book there are several chapters that would pertain to you and possibly shed some light on several of your questions.

Chapter 2 - there is a solution
Chapter 3 - more about alcoholism
Chapter 5 - how it works
Chapter 8 - to wives
Chapter 9 - the family afterward

I know this has been mentioned to you before, and it appears that you haven't taken the advice and gotten the book as yet. This book would be a HUGE help to you for understanding not only why he's doing what he's doing, while giving you a indication as to what you might expect later. At the same time giving you coping mechanisms.

Any questions you may have I'll do my best to answer...but I do work long hours so please be patient with me.

All the best...
(((AA hugs)))

272 Joe

Hi RH,

I'm glad to hear the intervention is going on as scheduled...I'll be keeping you in my thoughts and prayers tomorrow!

You were asking in an earlier post for thoughts on moving into Plan B at this point, and I have to say in your shoes I'd wait on that one.
Plans A & B are designed to separate the WS from the OP, which has already happened for your H. Also, given the way you are feeling of late...I honestly don't think you're emotionally ready to be strong in a plan b. I hope you don't find that harsh...I'm just trying to be honest.

Another danger with plan b at this point is your H's alcoholism. If he perceives recovery as a requirement for being with you, he may enter into recovery for that reason alone. Dangerous ground for an alcoholic, as recovery doesn't tend to work well unless they are committed to getting off the booze for themselves.

If the intervention is successful, he's likely going to need your support. He may gain strength in rehab if he knows he has you to count on.

I would suggest sticking to plan A mentality for a bit and see how things go if he enters rehab. After he's been sober a bit you can judge how you're feeling about they way he acts towards you and take it from there.

As for the 12 steps I promised, here you go...

1- We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that our lives had become unmanageable.

2- Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could resore us to sanity.

3- Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God AS WE UNDERSTOOD HIM.

4- Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

5- Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

6- Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

7- Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

8- Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

9- Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

10- Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

11- Sought through prayer and meditaion to improve our concious contact with God AS WE UNDERSTOOD HIM, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.

12- Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

One more thought...you may want to do some reading in the articles on this site regarding the Policy of Joint Agreement (Poja).

After rehab, it might be a good idea to have one in place so that you have some guidelines as to how you're going to deal with your marriage once recovery has started.

I know I may be jumping the gun a bit, but it doesn't hurt to be optimistic or prepared!

God bless RH!

A.

Joe -

thank you for describing AA a little more and the process of how recovery works with regard to the 12 steps. I know my husband and myself have a long road ahead and I'm not sure when he is going to get sober.

Banyak-

Thank you for your insights, thoughts, prayers! I have come to find out through family members that my husband is very angry with me along with being numb towards me. The interventionist said that is because if he isn't angry with me about the A and destructive life choices he has made then he would have to look at himself and deal with his own guilt shame... know we kind of talked about that in earlier post. I have been taking the blame on myself for his affair more then I realized and it came out the day before the intervention. I have blamed myself because I was sick, I felt inadequate etc. etc. My brain knows that it's not my fault but my heart hasn't gotten there yet because my WH treats me like the enemy.

Anyway... the intervention did not go so well. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Something happened in Louisiana with my husbands dad and he did a 180 on us and said he would get help for himself and would not go to rehab. Apparently from what I gather his dad shared some things that were in confidence, that his mom had shared with his dad and it through the whole intervention off. His dad has never had a good relationship with my husband and he became divisive and decided that this would be his chance to bond with his son at the expense of other relationships and my WH getting help.

I know all things are in God's time, but I really had a rough day yesterday and felt so let down. I don't know where to go from here. I'm still staying at my parents my husband is at home. I don't call him that much and when I do it is usually for business purposes. We are selling the house, to pay off debt and have some money set aside so that my husband can figure out his life and not go back to that horrible job. I'm working and will be bringing in income, but I don't know what our living situation should be once the house sells. I will probably be the main bread winner for a while and I told my WH I would support him if he gets help, but I don't know where to go from here. Suggestions?? I'm taking this one day at time and trying to limit contact with him. He is kind of in that mode of I know I have my wife if I want her back and I don't know if I want to be married or not still.

I've had friends tell me to turn the tables on him, be more of a challenge etc. etc. because I'm just the ol faithful wife who will always be there in his mind and he needs to get a little scared that I might not be according to the advice I've had. Mostly though I just limit contact because I still really love him and hearing his cold tone is so painful and having him look at me like his worst enemy even worse.

RH

RH

One day at a time is correct. It took my wife three years and three attempts at sobriety for it to stick(I hope).

We talked about it the other day and one of her drinking buddies moved out of state. She asked me if I missed them and she was suprised by my answer. I said no I am glad they moved. She asked why and I said I don't think you would be in AA right now if they lived here still. She looked at me and said you know you are probably right. God works in mysterious ways!!!!

You cannot force him into sobriety but you can set a boundry for him telling him sobriey is necessary for us to be together. Usually, and I am not an expert, an addict needs to hit rock bottom before they get help. Maybe FWH has not hit rock bottom.

It looks as though you are moving in the right direction with your decesions. I coulnd't make one for 2 years after D Day.

The one thing I know, again not an expert, is my FWW is a better person since she stopped drinking.

You need to do whats good for you right now until he makes the decesion. Some people never decide to live a sober life my father didn't even though he had liver problems that eventually took him from us too early.

I hope he decides to do it not for you but for him. If he does it for himself you will have hope.

Keep your head up remember to do something good for yourself today.

YOH -

Thank you for the encouragement, going to spend some time praying this morning and hopefully the day will get better.

I know anything my husband does will be for him not me because he really doesn't care much about me but he is completely self centered if you know what I mean. It's all about him all the time. I know though as far as getting sober he does need to do it for himself and I believe eventually he will. I think your right though it doesn't seem like he has hit bottom. He's ruined his integrity reputation at a prestigious job and still he's pissing around with getting help... just don't get it.

I think he's doing it to spite his mom and me right now because of whatever his dad said. You know alcoholics think in very strange ways... what can you do?

Best,
RH

Well I am a little hesitent to give advice on the alcoholic part there is a thread going on right now about some advice I gave you. LOL

My FWW hit rock bottom on 1.1.06. She drank to much on new years eve and was mean to my son and me. He didn't want her to stay up with us because she was drunk. She got mad at him and then me. Before going to bed she announced she was going to divorce me and move back east by herself because we would all be better without her.

The next day I said I think what you said last night is a good idea. She tried to appologize and tell me she was drunk and thats why she said it. I told her that is why I think you should go. It is no longer healthy for me or the boys to be around you so if you want to go then go.

Maybe losing everything is not enough for him. I don't know each person has their own rock bottom. For some it is getting a DUI for others it could be drinking away everything. My fathers was dying. He told me one time when I found out he was drinking again that he would rather drink and live another 6 months then to never drink again and live 20 years. Sick if you ask me but what do I know.

I know what you mean about self centered been there done that. Thats why I am doing for myself more. Maybe two self centered people will be centered. LOL.

(((RH)))

I'm sorry to hear things didn't go as planned yesterday RH, but take heart, as you still have some positives to take away from the day.

You now have a better understanding of why your H is treating you the way he is...and he's had a seed planted in his mind. Even though he's decided against rehab today, he knows it is still an option. He also knows his alcoholism is a problem and requires some kind of action on his part.

I have boatloads of suggestions for you now...but before I start please know that I am only speaking from my own experience with God's help. I am in no way telling you what to do. You'll have to make those choices for yourself.

First off you should know that rehab isn't the only choice your husband has. The intervention may have been too much for him at this point - with the influence of his dad messing with things, and with everyone there, he had a lot of people to look in the eye and be accountable to. Perhaps a gentler, less invasive approach will have more success.

Both AA and Al-Anon offer something called a 12-step call. This is where experienced members of either program meet with you and/or your H to talk about recovery. They can meet with you anywhere you choose, they'll even come to your house if you like. If the meeting goes well they can also act as temporary sponsors and get you and/or your H to your first few meetings.
This approach is great, because they've been in your husband's shoes and know exactly how he feels - it will give him someone to relate to on his level. Knowing that he's understood may make him more open to the idea of moving forward with recovery.

To make a 12 step call happen just phone AA or Al-Anon and ask for one - they'll put you in touch with someone who can set everything up. It is best if your H calls on his own behalf, but I do believe they'd procede if you called for him.

Next, I think it's time to have a talk with your H and set some boundaries. If you go ahead with this one and choose to do it in person, be sure to meet on neutral ground in a public place. A quiet coffee shop for example. This prevents nasty outbursts and doesn't make anyone feel 'trapped' so the conversation can be more open.

Before you start be sure to let him know you love and support him. Then let him know that you love and support yourself, and therefor must take some steps to preserve that.

You may have ideas of your own in terms of boundaries...if so, keep them simple and explain them in black and white terms. Alcoholics aren't good with 'grey area'.
I would suggest things like no contact when he's drunk and/or drinking. Always call ahead and arrange get-togethers - NO drop in visits.
If he is intending to live apart from you for the time being then he must start being responsible for himself financially. You should not provide cash that he could potentially use for drinking. Any money that comes from the sale of the house should be handled jointly - this way nothing gets spent without both your signatures and ensures that bills actually get paid.

I know you've said you'd support him if he goes into recovery, and that's fine, but if he doesn't choose recovery then I believe it's time for some 'tough love'.

There is a saying in AA...'Make the right things easy, and the wrong things difficult'.

Right now your H is in a make it or break it situation. He's apart from you, he doesn't have to go to work, and now has all the time in the world to wallow about. If you allow this situation to continue, drinking will be easy and quitting less appealing.

If you quit 'enabling' him now he'll have to clean up his act. He may not enter recovery, but at least he'll have to start getting responsible for himself and his actions. He'll hate it at first I'm sure, and likely even be more angry at you than he already is, but it will give him something positive in the long run and he'll have small accomplishments to be proud of if he starts taking care of himself.

I know all of this sounds pretty tough, but in my opinion it's necessary. The only obsticle may be whether or not his family will support this course of action. If they don't then he'll be able to turn to them for assistance which defeats the whole purpose.

You may wonder how you could possibly be strong enough to manage what I'm suggesting - and believe me when I say this...
YOU DON'T HAVE TO BE!!!

There is strength in the rooms of Al-Anon, strength at home with your family, strength here at MB, and God's strength.

Lean on all of them, and at the end of each day you will find that you had the strength you needed to do whatever you felt was necessary and right.

One last thought...since dealing with the A and your marriage is going to take a bit of a back seat for the time being you might find it helpful to start a journal. Spend a little time each day writing out your thoughts and feelings. This will give you a chance to vent openly and perhaps even put things into perspective over time. Eventually, when you and your H start reconcilliation you can let him read what you wrote so that you both have a chance to work through all the things that aren't currently being dealt with.

Remember RH...just my opinions and advice here - ultimately you know what is best for yourself.

Take care.
A.

Banyak -

Thankyou for all the wise advice and encouragement. I have a financial plan in place on an excel spreadsheet for managing the money after the house sells. I have a friend that would help us get the next place (he has real estate investment connections) so we wouldn't be spending an arm and a leg to get another place to live. I'm going to go over the finances and preparation for selling the house and getting the agent with my husband and he wants to do that. As far as drop in visits that never happens because he would never come to my parents house (to guilty) and I always call him if I'm going to stop by. He pretty much never calls me unless he wants something.

I think your right that it is easy for him to wallow in his problem and drink. Actually his day consist of working out and then sitting by the pool or tv and having some bacardi and coke. I take that back, I just talked to him and he is going to dinner with another woman from his work... says she is just a friend and that I don't have anything to worry about. She is the one that suggested he take leave of absense and go to Utah to get his head straight for 5 days. Gee if it was that easy I would have gone. I'm going to have a meltdown seriously. I'm experiencing a boatload of grief right now and I just can't take this anymore. He also told me he talked to OW yesterday and I asked if he saw a future with her and he said he didn't know, wouldn't tell me what they talked about. Then 20 minutes later he told me she was an Fu...ing C%$#^ and that he new she wasn't a quality woman at all. I don't even know what to say or do anymore I'm just speechless, lost, so so hurt. I would never do something like this to him, why is he so thoughtless and cruel? Is this part of the MLC/A/Alcohol fog?

They are all thoughtless and cruel. That's just the way it is. My WH turned into a person I don't know. He used to be kind to everyone.

Believer -

You are right the alien in the WH is definitely asserting itself. It is just awful. I know there are so many steps that need to be taken to be strong and put boundaries in place but sometimes you just feel like crawling under a rock and hoping when you come out they'll be normal again, really wishful thinking but never the less wouldn't that be nice.

Banyak -

I forgot to tell you actually the intervention was just his mom and the interventionist. Long story short, he is to resentful of me and so we decided it was best that I'm not there and because he was saying he wanted help and new he needed to go, we thought his mom and the interventionist would be enough and could do a gentle persuasion instead of the hard core version of everyone staring at you and telling you what a huge problem you have type intervention. We didn't want it to be overkill, but the trip to LA made him do a 180 thanks to his dad so no success with the intervention.

I guess I'm still in that broken heart stage but wish I was tougher and could put up tougher boundaries. I know it would benefit me and him and our marriage in the long run but I'm going through this grief thing and it is just taking so long to process. I feel like I take a few steps forward and a bunch of steps backward by appearing weak or just not being able to handle all my work related stuff etc. etc.

BTW - I talked to him around 8pm and he was home from a brief dinner with that gal at work. He said she was moving on to a new job and it would probably be the last time he ever saw her but that she had been a good friend and that he wanted to thank her for saving his life. I don't really know what that means... other then he was a mess couldn't function in his job and she said go to HR take a leave of absense, but thanks to her he's still alive?? Whatever!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

RH,

Here is a quote from an Al-Anon book...

" When I feel I just can't face the world and want nothing more than to bury my head under the covers and hide, I know I need an Al-Anon meeting! I may have to push myself out the door, but I always feel better - and saner - when I break the isolation and reach out for help. I usually feel relief the minute I walk into an Al-Anon room, even if it's a meeting I've never attended before. I find a healing, comforting Power in these rooms, a Power greater than myself. And because my Higher Power speaks through other people, I often hear exactly what I need.

We all go through periods of sadness, lethargy, and grief - that's part of life. But depression can become a habit that perpetuates itself, unless I intercede by acting on my own behalf. Al-Anon connot solve every problem and if depression lingers, I may want to consider seeking professional help. But more often than not, what I need to do is bring my body to an Al-Anon meeting. I know that no matter how I feel, when I take an action to get some help, I make myself available to the Higher Power in these rooms.

Today's reminder: When in doubt, I will go to an Al-Anon meeting and invite my Higher Power to do for me what I cannot do for myself."

Taken from the Courage to Change Book, page 224.

RH, your husband is stuck in a very thick fog of distorted thinking. He is not capable of rational thought. This is partly due to the A, and partly due to the alcoholism. He will say and do things one minute, and completely contradict them the next.

The best you can do today is distance yourself from what he says and does, knowing that it isn't his heart talking - it's the distorted thoughts of the fog. You can't pull him out of it untill he reaches for your hand.

It's painfull - believe me I know. You see someone you love so deeply hurting so much, and just want to reach out to them even though it pains you in the process - but you can't stop yourself because of the love you feel.

Here's a link that might help: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post3005334

Take care RH,

A.