Well said, NT.

Not2Day & tmln38,
Thank you much for your stories and support. It is exactly what I needed to smooth out the chink in my armor. I’m sorry that you even have a story to tell. The similarities are almost unbelievable though, right? Almost makes you think that Dr. Harley didn’t do any real work at all on his programs, right? =) JK How could someone not stumble across the behavior and document it.

I wish I had more time to talk right now, but I need to get busy planning. I will try to keep my status updated here. Someday I may try to read up on your stories too. I wish you all the best in your situation.
--d2m3b.

longhorn,
Excellent plan outline. I really feel quite comfortable with it. I am calmer now that I have ever been in my life. I am amazed. I will be calm. Remain calm. Got it.
I kind of laughed about your Plan A part though. No way she’ll buy in to it this soon. But I will go through the motions. I am THROUGH being a doormat. It has been near 6 months already. I think I should count that as my Plan A. And it HAS been hard as he11! Didn’t you say earlier that No Plan A was perfect? You are agreeing that I just go though the motions in one fell swoop of a conversation if she does not react accordingly to NC, right?

My plan will be to confront her about A. After she laughs in my face about NC (she is very proud that she has been able to remain friends with everyone of her ex-boyfriends). Then I drop the BIG D news on her and explain that since the petition is already filed that she will be breaking the law if she tries to flee with the kids or try to avoid being served. I made a list to expose to... still considering them... My mother, WW’s parents, OMW, our prior next-door neighbor, my brother, my sister...?

What about my 1st grade son’s teacher and other school staff? Is it too much to expose to her? Wow, that probably really would crossingthe line. We are already in frequent meetings since my son is having social problems in school. My wife previously mentioned “marital tensions” to his teacher without consulting me.

My kids are too young, right? Am I exempt from needing to directly exposing to them? They are ages 2, 4, & 7. One thing I learned in the past 2 years is that kids are very keen about feeling parents’ situation. Amazingly so. They will need to understand us living under seperate roofs eventually.

***Important Q***
Do I ask any help when I expose? Or am I only shedding light on A? Just want to be sure about this part.

How am I to get a hold of OMW! Hmmm....

And thanks for the esteem booster too. She is becoming TOO interested in this business trip. I feel her projecting her A on me. What paranoia, right?! The WW is half hoping that I have an A going on to make her A escape easier. It really is a coincidence that OM lives in same city as my trip. But I really don’t need the extra attention from her right now. Meeting OMW face-to-face would be best, right? Not sure that I can swing it… Is there an Indian Fog dance? WW needs to go back to sleep. She pestered me about going with me on the trip again tonight. My resounding NO, made her more suspicious about this trip. But that is also the ego booster, how bad can I be if she suspects a “Lover” has taken interest in me.

Want to hear something barf? This is Really, REALLY BAD!!! She wants to plan another trip soon because she is bent on getting our 1st grader to city of OM. She plans on having me stay home w/ younger 2 boys. WW & OM will no doubt have "meet" in hotel room again, but this time with my 1st grader in the room??!! This is becoming MORBID!!! I will definitely expose to her late Mon or early Tues.

Thanks again to all!
--d2m3b.

D2:

Nothing really surprises me anymore about the actions of WW's. I am glad that you are feeling better and think that you are ready for the next steps.

You have a difficult question regarding exposure to kids. I would have to say that a limited exposure to the kids teacher might be not be a bad idea because it does allow the teacher to understand some of the things that the child is going through even though he doesn't know the whole truth. Any WS who thinks that their actions don't have an immediate, negative effect on everyone around them even if they don't know for sure, is crazy as a bed bug. OOPS, forgot we were talking about waywards, they are deranged anyway but I am sure it has been rationalized some way..."well if the kids are not doing well at school because of the tension at home, it really couldn't have anything to do with bring another man into the marriage that is not his father". This idoitcy knows no bounds.

As for talking to the kids, you will probably get as many different opinions as their are people to express an opinion. My personal belief is that you talk to the kids and tell them that your wife is experiencing some difficulties and making choices that she may some day regret but that each of you need to try and support her and work towards trying to get your family back to normal and mommy happy. Be sure to let them know that mom's and dad's sometimes have trouble because it is hard for two different people to act as one, but that if they work hard together that there is very little that married people cannot overcome and even if there is a divorce, it is a mom and dad problem, not something they caused. I would personally refrain from telling them that mom is having an affair with another person right now. Depending on how far this whole deal goes before she stops the affair, they will eventually find out the whole truth. Be prepared for the day when they ask you why mom has a new boyfriend but still lives in your house. Not sure I have a good response on that one, maybe my friend from the state south of me (Longhorn) can answer that one or have some ideas.

As far as exposure to the OMW, I am not sure if it really makes a difference if it is in person or by phone. The important thing is that she knows what is happening and hopefully can help you break the affair up by exposing further on her side and working with you to compare schedules, etc. to keep them apart.

As to the approach to use with all those you expose to, remember that the primary purpose of exposure is to stop the affair. You need allys to do this and you want to not allow your WW to make defensive moves with those you will expose to lessen the effectiveness of the exposure. I have seen often where the approach that was suggested was to tell them that you still love your wife and that you want to do anything you can to save your marriage. Your marriage cannot begin to be rebuilt until the affair stops and ask them to support you in saving your marriage and family in any way they can.

Go to whatever lengths are necessary to prevent your DS's from being exposed to the slime bags (meaning both A partners) antics. It seems that getting the restraining order on a emergency basis to keep the kids from leaving the state is more important now than ever. I would provide this last little plan details to your attorney as soon as possible and ask that he take whatever steps he feels necessary immediately to ensure that you children are not exposed to this mess.

NT

Oh my goodness?! I can not believe this. My WW MUST think that she has me nailed on an A. Is she thinking that she will corner me? With what?! I guess I will have to put up with her snooping at my midnight hour of exposure.

I wonder if she will try to play this when I confront her. Any theories on how I should counter it to my best advantage if it does come up? Remember how I posted earlier that I would expect WW to claim her A is not an A since she already proclaimed that we are not together? Well how funny is it now, that she would think that I am in an A. Can we round up all of these aliens into a holding chamber for our own amusement?

I almost have to wonder if I really am one of the aliens and having an A behind my own back and projecting it at my wife!!!!!! =)

This is almost too much. Did I pick a good title for this thread or what?!

Feeling good. Need to keep rested and mentally honed.
--dsm3b.

Hey, just had this brainstorm! Should I walk in on her and catch her in cyber-sex w/OM?! Don’t know why I didn’t think of this before. I mean the only reason she has gotten away with it is that I’ve been concentrating on resting, being healthy, and caring for our boys while she has been hiding her slimy behavior under nights darkness.

I could bust her right now, but then I would have to go straight into confrontation right?

I did find a box of condoms in her suitcase (minus one) when she returned from her last trip. That should suffice if I catch her in action, don’t you think?

If anyone is on, please respond ASAP with opinion. This may be the hour of reckoning.

--d2m3b.

No - I think you need to concentrate on exposing to the OM's wife, and everyone else. If you catch her, it will just make her angry, and make her feel justified in her behavior.

Believer,
Please clarify about concentrating on OMW. I plan to expose to OMW, but longhorn's plan has me confronting WW first. (even if just going through the motions) Isn't WW going to get mad no matter what?
--d2m3b.

Longhorn always gives great advice. But I think it is a waste of time confronting your wife. She knows what she is doing, and so do you.

What will wake her up, and maybe end the affair, is exposure to OM's wife and others. I think you have plenty of proof.

D2, tell me what you mean by "going through the motions." I think you're referring to the fact that there is between zero and minus zero chance of her agreeing to NC when you confront her, right? If so, you're undoubtedly correct in that assessment. You know her best, and it's true the overwhelming number of WW’s do not give up the fantasy that quickly.

The rule of thumb is you should expose to anyone who can reasonably be expected to be able to put pressure on the affair. I think you have a good exposure list except in one respect. Dr. Harley recommends exposing to the children. My 4-year-old daughter (at the time) was aware her mother was doing something inappropriate during my ex’s affair so thinking your children haven’t noticed something is probably just wishful thinking. Now, such a thing has to be done in an age-appropriate manner. Just saying mother is doing something inappropriate will be enough. I think your oldest definitely needs to know since your WW has plans for him to meet OM’s child.

I would not think the teacher should be exposed to unless she has some special relationship to the family you haven’t said anything about. To me, that’s just a little bit of a reach.

When you expose, you are calm and deliberate. You must not appear to be a crazy man, out for revenge. You DO ask for their help in breaking this obscenity up.

Are you planning to see the OMW on that business trip? Heck of a way to start out the discussion Monday or Tuesday when you confront. “Yes dear, why don’t you come with me on this trip. We can drop by and see OMW and you can explain to her why you’ve been involved with her husband.” No, actually that’s just a fantasy. <sigh> Yes, if you can see the OMW face to face, I think that’s best. She’ll be able to read the pain in your eyes and understand you’re the genuine article.

It’s not that unusual for a WS to suspect the BS is having an affair. They project their conduct on others easily because it makes them feel better about what they’re doing. That they planned to have sex with your oldest boy in the room is perverted. Make sure your attorney sees that one.

I think you cannot afford to delay confrontation (and probable exposure) very much longer. Who knows what other perversions they will come up with?

Remember. You are calm and collected when you confront. Let her scream and yell and get hysterical. You the man, D2.

It's almost certainly correct WW isn't going to "come to Jesus," as Grandma used to say, when she's confronted. Would the advantages of getting to OMW before OM can possibly tell her any stories outweigh any potential fallout from the perceived discourtesy of not going to the WW first?

My only concern about going to see OMW first is that it involves a delay unless the exposure is made by phone. If that medium of contact is okay, then I don't have a problem. With the OM and WW planning to have sex with the young boy in the room, I think this thing needs to be exposed to the light of day REAL soon.

D2:

I am with Believer on this one. Make sure you get your evidence in hard copy prior to confrontation with your WW. She will go stealth as soon as you confront her and will likely try to delete and clean up any evidence. You may need this for the restraining order to keep kids from leaving state. Get that evidence printed and supplied to your attorney ASAP. Then confront her with your knowledge of ongoing affair, calmly with as little drama as possible. Ask her to stop the affair. Tell her that you want to work with her to save your marriage but you can't do that as long as she has included OM in your marriage. No ultimatums, try not to LB. Tell her that you are obviously hurt and disappointed in her choices but that you beleive that your marriage is worth saving and that you both owe it to each other and the kids to make every effort. She will come at you from all directions, marriage has been over for a long time, nothing worth saving, he is really my destiny, it's not really an affair, I only had a relationship with you because I knew you were having an affair on me, blah blah blah. Stay cool and calm and try not to love bust (read the love busters section on main site if you haven't already). Especially avoid angry outbursts and disrespectful judgements when confronting her. We know she is wrong, but she (or at least the aliens) have convinced her that she is right and it is all your fault.

Do not make your move until you are ready to go full bore. Be prepared for anything. Until recently you could have never expected that she would ever have an affair. Tonight, you find out that she is planning on having an escapade with your youngest son and OM. At this point, nothing should surprise you. Stay focused.

The entire goal at this point is to bust up the affair, period. You cannot proceed with anything else until that the affair has ended. Then you will have to deal with the fog and withdrawal. This can be exhausting...just check out DazedandConfused postings from a few months ago. Focus your energy on taking care of the kids, it will no doubt get worse for them before it gets better. Maintain as stable of a home as possible. They are innocent victims too but less able to handle this than you are.

Be prepared for a roller coaster ride. It is hard to predict how any of this will play out but work hard on trying to continue to improve yourself. You want to present yourself as the obvious good choice for your wife. She will be repulsed at first but keep with the plan. Be prepared for many changes in your mood and develop escape plans for yourself to deal with the pain. Everything may be going fine and you hit a trigger and just break down. That is okay as you will have to eventually go through a greiving process. The innocence of the marriage is gone. It will never be the same, maybe different, quite possibly better, but never the same. I couldn't have made it through everything with AD's. They were a lifesaver for me, they controlled the swings of emotion and really made a difference with me being able to control my angry outbursts. I know that you already have a MC. If he/she is not a pyschatrist/pyscologist that can prescribe meds, check into getting an individual counselor that can fill that role for you.

I have seen it stated here often that MC is pretty worthless as long as the affair is continuing. IC in my opinion is priceless (I have two of them...lol). Well not really priceless but well worth the price. The advantage that I can see with continuing MC is if the MC starts individual sessions for a while and can possibly work through the processes with you and start the expulsion of aliens from your wife.

NT

Thanks, thanks, & thanks all... Good advice. Much I already know now, but the reminders are worth every word that you type.

I agree longhorn, WW confrontation needs to occur very soon. Maybe I will call OMW first. (We can always meet in person later in the week for a follow-up.) If I call OMW on Monday, she may be able to catch him in the act if they have cyber-sex Monday night. Then I can confront WW Tues morn before I leave for trip.

Lots of permutations, but I think this is starting to gel nicely. I will play it by ear as it goes down. Calmly, I might add.

OK, I'm going to get some shut-eye now. I've still got a lot of planning to do tomorrow.
--d2m3b.

Oh crud man… I’m just not having good luck. I already had way too little sleep the past 3 or 4 nights. Then last night my 2 year old started crying after I had only slept for 2 hours. So I went to his room and he was standing at his door. I tried to comfort him; asking how he was doing and picking him up to hold him. No sooner than I pick him up… BLAH! Projectile Vomit EVERYWHERE. On carpet, on him, on me. Everywhere. I cleaned up everything, bathed him, tucked him back in, showered myself and got back in bed no sooner that 4:30am. Not good. I really need the mental focus of a good night’s sleep right now.

I wake up with my alarm to get my 1st grader ready for school. After he is dressed and we are ready to go down, I hear the phone ring, but missed picking up in time. It was WW’s Mother. It was strange that she called so early, and WW wife was of course in snooze land. So I called M-I-L back myself. She told me about what she saw on the news. It had totally skipped my mind that it has been raining here for about 6 days straight. So all the rivers are on flood watch, and school is cancelled today. That means another day with 3 kids at home and one of them is sick. If WW knows I plan to go out, she will probably want me to take 2year old to the Dr., even though he probably just has a stomach bug. Or even just an upset stomach.

So I need to get my thoughts straight here to give me the best chance to call OMW today, and confront WW tonight or tomorrow. Plus get organized for my business trip. Heck, I can barely remember what I am going on business for… =/
--d2m3b.

d2... sorry for getting sidetracked, but how old are the boys? Is it because she doesn't work outside the home that you've called her a "freeloader"? Or is this because of some other reason you haven't mentioned?

Are you concerned about saving the marriage or making sure you are the "financial winner" in the divorce?

Is it possible with exposure and confrontation that she would be opened to working on salvaging the relationship? You can't possibly know what she is thinking even though you assume to.

I was certain my WH wanted out but he has immersed himself in IC and MC both of which he used to refer to as "psycho babble". He initially started IC to placate me but after 5-6 sessions began to realize that the problems in this relationship didn't all revolve around me and to the contrary were actually partially his own.

Not to backtrack, but you may give thought to the fact that if the only work you value is that which brings home a considerable paycheck than perhaps you can see the root of a possible issue within that thought. I am a SAHM with 3 kids under 11, my H is a professional athlete without a huge salary but with a very demanding travel schedule, does this make me a "freeloader"?

Hi APL,
If you are truly a SAHM, and your husband , your children, and yourself benefit from it, then you surely are NOT a freeloader. A SAHM if definitely a “job”. As for my situation, read from the start of the thread to see that *I* have been the one performing 90% of the SAHM responsibilities. Plus pulling down the sole income. There aren’t enough hours in the day for it all. I have to let some of it slip through the cracks. She will make lunch for them when they drive her bonkers. She will put them to bed if I am traveling. But other than that, not much going on in the SAHM department. It is hard to imagine that she finds this acceptable. And hard to imagine that she can possibly spend all of her time on this affair... To her credit, she wasn't always a freeloader. *OUR* plan was for her to be SAHM. But the past 2 of 7 years have been ridiculous on her part; and the past 6 months have been ludicrous. Hence, she is a freeloader, not a SAHM. Mutually exclusive definitions.

Our boys are 2, 4, & 7. I would love to save our marriage for them. But if it doesn't work out, you can bet I want to be in the best possible position to care for them. The “financial” part is more for her to wake-up and learn how the world really works- for non-SAHMs. To me money is just money. It is necessary, but I find life simpler without it. I honestly could see myself happy as a SAHD.
--d2m3b.

Stay with it, D2. The difficulties will smooth out. I'm so sorry to hear your toddler is sick. I hate it when children are ill.

That puts finished on the idea of her accompanying you on the business trip though, doesn't it? She can't possibly think of doing that with a sick baby.

Just curious...are you go to broadside the WW's girlfriend also?? Seeing how she is supporting this and having her own affair ...its only fitting in my opinion. Keep the emails and show them to her BH. Just a thought.

I spoke with my lawyer today. I think I will be putting the “Confrontation” & “Exposure” plans on hold. Number one reason being that I value my relation with my children too much to jeopardize before a hearing. Please read on before responding.

My lawyer says that WW’s lawyer would have a hay day with the “Exposure” plan. I can see Lawyer’s point. Dr Harley even admits to being controversial. And that is probably why his method works when both couples follow it. But the more I think about it, I just can’t risk “giving away” my kids to her if she doesn’t follow the plan. That is the main reason I even filed D. I will probably have to pick up with an alternate plan after D court is finalized; and she has had time to experience making a living in the real world.

I know many of you may be disappointed with me making this decision. But you even said yourselves, that I know her best. And I know that less than 20% of our 10year relationship (7 married) was ever better than mediocre. So I know that even though a recovery is possible, that it is a definite uphill battle. And that she would not have cared for most of Dr. Harley’s Policy’s even before the A, before our move, before the kids… and before we even met. The more that I look at her circle of friends, and remember our early days… I sense that maybe a good mother and wife was her fantasy world. She definitely has a lot of negative influence and background. My children are so young, that I’ve decided that I just HAVE to make the best of them for me. My lawyer suggested letting WW’s activities be the catalyst that hands the kids to me. Not the other way around where her lawyer gets ammo from me exposing A. Lawyer obviously said that I can do what I want. But stated the damage control I would be against in the court’s view, if I expose A to the world.

My lawyer also suggests that along with the “Exposure” plan, that “Confrontation” plan will work against me in court too. It will give WW more time to get a lawyer, get her act cleaned up, get a counter-case put together. I think that you know that this was one of my earlier concerns. We would all like a heads-up, right? Why should I give it to her? She would just go straight to defense. Or possibly even make plans to avoid being served, or fleeing with the kids.

This means that I am in for a VERY long 3 weeks of answering her demanding scheduling questions (for her PA). But the lawyer gave me some tips. Especially regarding her taking our son on one of her escapades. Suggestions like to insert myself in to the equation. “Why don’t we all go as a family? It will be easier on you with my help. We’ll all have fun!” “Why just have me watch 2 of the kids, they do better together; and will help you.” “It will be more convenient for you to go ‘out’ without watching a kid.” (don’t ask where she is going, just make sure kids don’t go) Lawyer suggest I sneak and hide kids’ passports out of the house. Call Border Patrol and see what they can do if I don’t want my kids crossing. Limit her access to money. W/O giving away my plan of attack, notify her family that she is acting inappropriately and should not be trusted with money. Lawyer says that sex in a single room hotel with a child present will not go over well at all with the court, AT ALL, obviously. I should not let it happen; but should try not to blow my cover in the process.

ILF,
My only real concern is what if they don’t want to know. Some people seem to like being dumb and blind like that; can’t take the pain. (I am not one of them BTW.) But I mean how hard is it for him to find out for himself? Really? The fog disables WS’s ability to hide A effectively. All the lies create enough suspicion for any BS that cares. He has access to everything on the other end that I do on my end. I struggle a lot with this internally. Because I know that I would want to know if I were in their shoes. But the truth is, that I am not in their shoes. So I do not know what they want… Is doing what I would want necessarily good if the other party wouldn’t want it? Is not doing what I would want bad, if they did want to know? I answer yes to both. I cannot decide if it is my business or not. And I don’t want to do it out of spite, for sure.

All,
I know that this post will probably generate a lot of controversy. And I will keep reading it all. I still view you has my support group. And I will still value your support. I just have to go back to the drawing board since I have the D & Child custody to worry about internationally.

BELIEVE ME!, I am asking the lord for all the guidance that he can afford me right now.
--d2m3b.