d2 -

Completely agree w/LH and UVA.

If your actions have effectively ended the A - or seriously damaged it - why would you not rush to fill the gap that's left by OM?? Yes you're still dealing with a fogged out WW - don't expect reason from her. You have a golden opportunity to rebuild your M. Starting now.

Don't let her go anywhere without you. I'm concerned about your "she can do what she wants" attitude regarding her behavior. Completely understand that this has been a very bumpy week - you handled it beautifully by the way - but don't you want to cash in on some of this hard work?

WW says she does not love you right now. That's normal. She's reacting. Her fantasy world just came crashing down and she's looking for somewhere to park the blame and shame. It's a big debt for WSs to carry once the bill comes due. They're going to try and spread it around.

All you need from your WW is a commitment to have no contact with OM. If you can get her to commit to working on the M, even better. NC - veriified by you - is most important.

Capitalize on your situation! You've gotten tremendous results.

D2m3b, with respect, expecting WW to act responsibly...like a "big girl"...is an exercise in futility just now. Let me give you an analogy here.

Picture adulterers in the same class as sociopathic serial killers. Sociopaths have no sense of right or wrong. They only know things happen that are either advantageous or disadvantageous to the sociopath in reaching their goals. They do not understand human beings around them are actually "real." To sociopaths and particularly to the ones I’m talking about…adulterers…the whole world exists only as a backdrop to their Fantasyland. That’s how your wife could ignore the obscene cruelty of what she was doing to you and the marriage for so long, and it’s how she could plan to use your young child as a toy to enhance her pleasure in a sexual encounter with the OM.

With that in mind, D2m3b, I suspect she’s going to use this trip to attempt a reconnection with OM, in spite of his “NC” email. She doesn’t believe OM is serious. Frankly, why else would she be going to the city where he lives?

D2m3b, please don’t enable her attempt to rekindle the adultery with OM. Don’t tell her it’s okay with you and, in fact, tell her you’d rather she not. If she has her own source of income (and I thought she did not) you can’t stop her but don’t pay for the ticket either directly or indirectly. She can travel on her own, but I wouldn’t allow her the symbol of traveling with you.

I don’t know if you’ve considered it from this point of view, but if you allow her to go with you, you’re being extremely discourteous to OMW and inhibiting OMW’s attempt to save her marriage. At the very least, if WW travels separately to that city, you need to let OMW know WW is going to be in town…and let WW know OMW has been so informed.

Tell WW if she is really serious about the M, she should not go, but if she goes you'll know where her true intentions lies. Let's call a spade a spade: WW wants to go on the trip only to see what she can rekindle with OM, as LH puts it. Just let WW know that you not falling for her explanation of her reasons for going, but you cannot stop her. Tell her she can do what she wants to do, and you will do what you need to do. You are just not falling for her lies on this.

I believe that it is important to let WW know that you don't believe and won't accept her purported reasons for going.

I’m in the middle of typing up a doozie… but saw lh and UVA’s posts roll in. So let me quickly reply to those before my doozie….

I truly believe that WW will not contact OM. But she will be in direct contact with a common circle of friends. Which I agree is a DIRECT DISRESPECT for OMW. I will have to tell her that for sure. Tell her she will have to pay her own way. And tell her in advance that I would notify OMW if WW goes to that city. WW, says that she feels very betrayed when I send info to OMW “behind WW’s back.” So do you see any problem with me telling WW ahead of time? It is not meant to be an ultimatum; but instead a token of openness.

I’m grinning that lh called me “Mike.” That’s not my name, but maybe it could stick as an alias. =) I’ve almost signed my name by accident several times…
--d2m3b.

I think that WW has had some type of extra-marital activity with at least 2 more other men. But I don’t have solid proof. How can I get her to admit to that, if she won’t even admit to all that I already know. She hides behind the excuse that I should not be dredging up the past and holding it against her for the rest of our lives. I assure her that those are not my intentions, but iterate she needs to become open with me now to restore my trust in her. She just responds that I am looking for information to use against her in court.

So in short, I will not be able to stop her from traveling w/o me. And up near our place (close to her parents) is where one of the previous OM is. I am trying to get her to admit all about current OM, so that I can get a NC commitment from her, but no success yet. So obviously there is nowhere for me to even begin talking about the previous OM; and no way to get NC commitments re: additional OM either.

I hear you about re: me needing to cash in on my work thus far… but I just don’t see it happening with all of these hurdles. Would you suggest that I confront her about ALL of it? It seems to just isolate her even more. I know she will only admit to what I can present to her and nothing more. How can this work if that’s the only way she is willing to play? You don’t think at all that she needs to feel my plan-B action by committing to plan-D? Just seems that she hasn’t hit bottom yet. I would think that Plan-B would accelerate that.

I just feel so tired right now, that taking 2nd and 3rd places (keeping children safe & keeping my access to them) collectively seems an attractive enough option to me right now. I can always go back for 1st place after a while of improving myself even more; and letting her experience the real world. My mind could be changed if I had the energy. But I am really totally spent right now. I asked her to read HNHRfP. I think she only glances at the chapters though. I need to know if she thinks it is total crap or not. She takes that as an ultimatum even thought I tell her she needs to make alternate suggestions to me if she thinks that Harley is full of crap.

I will think more about your suggestions. But like I said, I am not “rushing” towards finalizing Plan-D. We’ll see if anymore Harley magic happens in the mean time. And I will keep controlling the LBs. But I will need a massive energy boost in order to meet her top ENs w/o any reciprocation. I’m not even sure what her ENs are right now.
- One is probably SF, but not with me; what a paradox?
- Another couple are probably domestic support and child responsibility; but again, a paradox! She considers these actions of mine a threat against her in court.
- And of course there is financial support; but for the safety of my children; I had to make decisions that clipped her financial freedoms.
- I sincerely doubt she would even go out to dinner with me alone; kids would have to be in tow.
- I couldn’t even possibly see her believing that I could remotely still respect her in this current situation.
- Affection… I tried that the other night while she was in bed with me… but seems too closely coupled to SF for me to feel comfortable with right now.
So where could I even possibly start with ENs… I just try to remain calm and be nice to her; even though she doesn’t really accept my gestures.

I’m still listening to and considering everyone’s advice. Don’t get me wrong there…
-d2m3b.

d2m3b,

You can see I've been here a while, but I don't post much. Your situation has interrupted my lurking...

I think getting past the damage of one affair is akin to scaling Mount Everest. It can be done, but not many succeed. Multiple affairs?? Serial cheating?? I can not imagine myself recovering enough trust in my W to have a good M after multiple betrayals. Perhaps that is just me though...

Blessing to you.

Gib

D2m3b, I'm sorry I called you "Mike." Calling one by the wrong name is incredibly rude and I sincerely apologize for that.

I'm sorry you have identified another two men your wife may have had inappropriate relationships with. That makes it that much tougher to come to grips with her lack of commitment to the marriage. However, friend, she's not about to admit to them right now and won't be for a very long time. Stop beating your head against that particular wall, okay? Leave that for an item to be discussed in couples counseling down the road in a well-advanced stage of recovery when the current adultery is dealt with.

I see no reason why you shouldn’t tell your wife you’ll be talking to OMW about WW’s planned trip to where OM and OMW live. You are not setting an ultimatum about anything at all. You’re simply setting a boundary. You’re telling your wife you will NOT pay for her to go there so she can re-connect with a circle of friends who have probably enabled the adultery for a long time. Neither will you disrespect OMW’s marriage by failing to warn her of the danger of OM and WW having contact while WW is there.

I don’t know about this “rush” for a Plan D that is being spoken of. I’ve been reading your posts all along and I have the idea it was a well-considered decision to file a petition for divorce. I saw no rush at all.

Let’s be clear. There are extenuating circumstances here. One is your wife has the ability to flee the country with the children at any time if she were not legally restrained from doing so. A second factor is the obscene plan to have sex with OM while your young son was in the room. I agree with you that extraordinary measures had to be taken.

Additionally, there is a world of difference between filing for a divorce and getting a divorce. The initial petition is a mechanism for defending yourself and your children from harm the WS can do. It sets the stage, if you will, but then things move glacially slow. If you don’t have your attorney ratchet up the pressure on the system to actually obtain the final decree, things don’t happen quickly. That gives one plenty of time to work Plan A or Plan B, as appropriate. No, I don’t see any rushing here at all.

Heck, if you’re exhausted right now, this is a good time to stand back a little and let the nuclear bombs you’ve dropped on the adultery take effect. I think you’re right. She hasn’t hit bottom yet but the seeds of that fall have been planted. Let those seeds take root and blossom. Think about it this way…it took a long time for things to get this bad…it’ll take a while for them to improve.

Stay with your strategy, D2m3b. You’re the one who knows your WW best and it’s you having to live through this one minute at a time. I think you have a good plan and you’re executing it very well. Stay strong, pardner.

Hey lh,
No problem on the name mishap. I didn't think it rude at all. Especially in this environment of anonymity. It even allowed me to chuckle in between a pair of WW conversations. But now I look like a crazy man since you went back and edited my "name." =)

Gibby,
I see your point to a certain extent. Probably 2 things are keeping me from buying into that philosophy for the time being:
1) I've learned not to take affairs personally, since they are so irrational.
2) I know that there really have been aspects in our relationship that needed repair; so I at least should get to the point where that is taken care of before I call her a serial adulteress.

I like the sound of what lh says. I shouldn't bang my head on the wall of the additional A’s right now. That will be for several walls down the road.

So I’ll write a little more “update” before I regret not being asleep…
WW, asked me this evening about still going on her trip, alone. I did mention that it didn’t seem right for her to be going to that town again, and hanging out with that problematic “circle of friends”. She had a bunch of excuses that were about as strong as a wet paper sack. I think she dropped most of them as soon as I would say “but” or “what if” or “Umm”. I hadn’t read lh's post yet, so wasn't sure about mentioning “respect for OMW”. Turns out I didn’t need to. Amazingly she rephrased after a little conversation as "How would you feel if I still went." I told her I felt it was wrong. She was very annoyed that I felt that way, but said she would respect my feelings and not go. Man... Don’t know if that one was sincere or not; but chalk it up s mission accomplished for the time being. I don’t even know if I am going to have time to cancel her hotel and train. I have been so busy, that it slipped to the back burner. Guess if I don’t get to it in time that it will be money well worth wasted.

WW had notified me in the late afternoon that she has raised money for a lawyer. She has threatened me with bringing up LOTS of dirt on me if we take this to court. She wants me to let her still move across boarder w/kids. I just stick to my point that it is too far for me to have a solid relation w/kids. So then she tells me to get a new job a move closer to or across border. I just remain calm through all of this; and remain reasonable. And attempt to keep conversation rolling even if I express my same concerns over and over. I can tell she is still plenty angry, but her "outbursts" seem to be waning significantly. She tells me that we can never be together again, because she can't forgive me for betraying her with my method of exposing A to OMW. Or that she will never have respect for me since I clipped her freedoms. But she usually rephrases a few minutes later with less "permanent" wording. WW also asked me to promise to forward any emails to her that I get from OMW in the future. I left it at, *if* it happens, we can discuss further at that time. Then she said, well you better at least tell me before you reply, right? Again, I left it at *if* OMW *EVER* writes back again, then we can discuss at that time; and I emphasized that I doubt OMW would be contacting me again.

WW also told me later in the evening that my mother wanted WW to call. So I told WW, I would call my mother 1st if she wished, so I could clear the air about D. I had not told anybody yet except for PILs and a few other acquaintances that do not know WW. When I called, I had a very good talk w/my mom. I didn't mention anything about the A. I just kept it to the point that WW & I are at odds regarding where children should live. WW HATES living in this state. And doesn’t want to move back to my home state either. My mom didn’t like hearing the news and is sad to think of WW & I as apart. My mom loves my WW to pieces, but is very concerned that WW is not being realistic. So that only makes umpteen-thousand people that have told me this. My mom made me laugh a few times by sighting some unrealistic attributes that WW is exhibiting right now. I said, you better never say that directly to WW, or at least you better take full blame if you do; I don't want W thinking that I planted those thoughts in your head. We both laughed. It felt good. WW came up about the time my mom and I were winding down. I asked WW if she wanted to talk to my mom. WW says, only if my mom doesn't make WW cry. Then it's my mom that is crying by her 1st sentence to WW; we all laugh. My sister divorced last year. My dad's M previous to my mom ended in D. Although my mom & dad have been separated for over 10 years now, they never financially/legally divorced. So I make a crack saying that before long, my mom will be the only one that hasn't divorced. So again, we all laugh. I tell you, as hectic and exhausting has this week has been, it's not nearly a stressful as the month leading up to it was.

Maybe I will just sit back and enjoy the view of the mushroom clouds for now.
--d2m3b.

Sounds like a plan, pardner. I have an old t-shirt left over from my AF career with a B-52 climbing out superimposed over a spreading mushroom cloud. Beneath the picture it says "NOW it's Miller time."

Enjoy a cold one for me, okay?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

WW struck up a conversation again today about going on the trip. So this time I told her that this was not an ultimatum, but if she were to go to that town, then I would have to inform OMW. She got mad like a hornet for a few minutes, but in the end agreed not to go on the trip; with a small threat that she would be working with an attorney instead.

Hey! We actually negotiated a parenting plan today. It is only up until the week of July 12 (week of our temporary hearing), and it has not been signed off any lawyers yet; but still, this seems to be big progress. I don't think that we have even negotiated ANYTHING before , in entire 10 years. You know…? Maybe I can already see that the improvements that I have made to myself are affecting the W in positive manner.

I spoke with my mom's boyfriend (they've been together about 10 years too) this evening for a few hours on the phone. He was very upset to hear that I filed for D and wanted to make sure there was nothing that he could do to help us out. He asked if I was open to listening to any advice, I said sure. He was just using his (old fart) wisdom, his experience of 2 divorces, and advice from his grandparents; but it all sounded very similar to Dr Harley’s method. My mom's BF realizes that although he does not know all the details (and he does not want to pry); he firmly believes that there are not any problems whatsoever in relationships that cannot be resolved if 2 parties are giving 100%. We talked about the complications of my situation. I shared more with him than any other family member thus far (stopped short of mentioning recently busted A). I think that this little talk may have boosted my desire to go with a full on Plan-A. I'm gonna need to review SAA some more to decide if I'm ready enough for this. My mom's BF wants to speak with W tomorrow. We'll see how that goes too.

I think that I'm going to go down and fold W's laundry; that I washed over the past few weeks. I had been sorting and folding the kids' laundry; and just leaving hers to the side. Don't know if it will really count as fulfilling an EN or if she'll even notice or appreciate the gesture. But I feel like doing it; and maybe I just need to force the behavior now to make a habit out of wanting to fulfill her EN's again.

I'll let you know if I change to a full Plan-A. If so, then I may need to confront her about those other 2 A's. I will need a letter and her commitment of NC; which will no doubt make her mad again. But when I exposed to OMW the 1st time, W said I betrayed her by going behind her back. So with these other 2 As, I will have to remind her that I am coming to her 1st as she wanted; can she please fully comply if she is serious about our marriage. This could be the real test of how serious she is. And it she is serious, it will probably bring up her sticky surveillance Qs and request to destroy all proof. That’ll be a tough one to consider, I will need a fog detector.
--d2m3b.

I think you should fold her laundry without any hesitation. Not folding it is PA behavior and hurtful to both of you. Don't even let things like this cross your mind. Fold the clothes.

Under no circumstances do you destroy your evidence. Are you crazy? WW are known to change their minds. And I am sure her lawyer will tell her to have to have you destroy the evidence you have of the A. You destroy them not before six months into recovery. Any time sooner is playing a fool’s game. If I were you, I would have my lawyer secure the evidence.

Btw when she gets a lawyer, things will not get better. But Plan A is a good idea, while you are with her.

No, it won't. Any suggestions on her part that she not be snooped upon and the proof of her current adultery be destroyed are clearly unacceptable and have to be dismissed out of hand. Surveillance is going part of the "trust but verify" policy. It's perfectly reasonable to surveil a spouse who has proven herself unworthy of trust. After a few years of trustworthiness, perhaps you can reconsider, but certainly not now. I also wonder what else she's hiding she doesn't want you finding out with a continued intelligence gathering operation.

If you destroy the proof before those years of trust building are complete, you’re cutting your own throat, D2m3b. I don’t have a clue why you’d want to consider that even long enough to write those words in a post.

Heck. If you're doing the laundry, fold hers too. There’s no need to show pettiness in any of this. You're the one on the moral high ground here. Stay there.

I’m not so sure about confronting her about the two additional adulteries. You have definitive proof of them now?

The W has been bouncing back and forth a lot lately on her stances. So I know not to trust anything quite yet that comes out of her mouth. But she has mentioned several scenarios that had NEVER been mentioned to me before. I mean… I would not have filed D if I did not truly feel threatened that the kids could have been taken to live out of the country against my desire. I’ve been sticking to that point as a response to MANY of W’s accusations & angry outbursts in the past week. (Tomorrow makes 1 week that she’s been served.)

As it stands right now:
- She says that she does not love me; especially for not giving her the option to break A off with OM; instead of me informing OMW.
- She says that “we were over” before OM. She was just waiting for me to let her out. That I am trapping her.
- We both have lawyers.
- We both agree to give mediation a shot first.

Now in the past 6 months she never once mentioned an option to me where the kids (w/ or w/o her) could stay in the US. But the other day was the 1st time she threw out such a scenario for consideration. It did seem ludicrous, but I did not criticize is since, this was the 1st time I had heard her even budge that much. I probably just said, why didn’t you consider that months ago; meaning that we could have entered into mediation w/o divorce proceedings. She has waffled back and forth in considering whether this scenario is even “on the table”. I just let her know that I am not forcing her to make scenarios available to me as deals; that instead we can just use them as starting points in mediation. So maybe, it will be a good starting point with the mediator?… you tell me what you think of the following:

The initial reason that she got me headed toward D was that the only scenarios she ever mentioned involved her taking the kids 5 to 10 hours drive time (out of the country) away from me. Even though I am the bread winner (she is the stay at home mom) she thinks that this is reasonable and encourages me to start a new career to be closer to them. But now for 1st time ever she mentioned staying here in the country. But she says that we cannot live under the same roof, and that I must pay for her and the kid’s living expenses so that she can go to school instead of work; and so that she can watch the kids instead of put them in daycare. She would want me to stop the divorce and that we would have an “open marriage” where we see other people instead of each other for SF. She says I could come over and visit the kids anytime. Wow, what can I say to that? And keep in mind that I only recently thought that Plan A may be worth a 2nd shot. I know that going to court is a risk where I could loose my shirt and access to the kids; but man! Is there anyone out there that can even hypothetically argue how her plan is even remotely good?

It also came out in a conversation the other day that I still love her. So I am wondering if that was a mistake. Being on the cusp of Plan D & Plan A seems to be a very tricky act to balance. Will she try to use that as another means to string me along? I will have to be very weary of calling this D off too soon. I am suspecting that I may end up needing to go all the way through with it, then Plan B for a half year or so… then see if I am presented with a 3rd opportunity for Plan-A. I think lh was right when he said that it will take a long time for things to get better, because it took a long time for them to get bad.

Are there any FWWs out there with children that may have some advice on this for a BH?

I did have the best Father’s Day this year that I did in the past 3 or 4 years or maybe even ever.
--d2m3b.

lh,
I do not have near the definitive proof of the other A’s. So I probably have to let them lay for now; and focus on what is at hand. I think they both stopped short of intercourse, so I don’t even want to tire myself right now on the million’s of reasons that she would try to justify with. Heck, she still keeps OM’s ID in her IM. Not that she ever tried to contact OM, but still, why even run that temptation? What good is coming out of it? He and his BW sent NC letters. So what the heck?! I may need to notify OMW eventually, but right now I need to focus my energy on legally protecting access to my kids.

So I did go down and fold W’s laundry last night. She even made dinner tonight; which hasn’t happened in a while. Our household looks a little more like a household after D was served. Maybe she’s just scared and doing it for show… But I am not going to argue with that right now.

I was going to do dishes now; but I am just too tired. I’ll probably still have the chance to do them in the morning.

--d2m3b

Dad,

I don't think you are anywhere near calling off the divorce. That "bargin" she offered is really something. If you even consider it, let me know I have something to offer you as well. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Let me see how did it go?

1. I get to do what I want.

2. I can do it with whomever I want, except of course YOU.

3. You get to pay for it fully.

4. Oh, yeah almost forgot, you can come visit the kids anytime...that I find convenient (which was left out wasn't it? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> )

Man that girl sure knows how to negotiate. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Hang in there and keep going "steady as she goes." There is no reason to beleive a word she is saying.

She is in one of the stages of grief...barginning. Let it pass, and take a pass on any negotiations.

God Bless,

JL

PS: For goodness sake give the evidence to your lawyer for safe keeping. You do NOT destroy it. Got that?

D2m3b, don't negotiate with the alien. Don't negotiate with the alien. Don't...you get the idea? Look, pardner, she's not ABLE to negotiate in good faith right now. Everything in her mind is oriented toward detachment and continuing the adultery. Additionally, if you negotiate with her, you may be undercutting something your attorney is doing.

Get off the divorce topic with her to the extent you can. Let things percolate in her mind. Eventually, the NC letters from OM and OMW will seep through the layers in her mind. Tell her you only talk marriage; if she wants to talk divorce, she must contact your attorney.

It’s not wrong to let her know you love her. However, don’t expect anything but a sneer in return right now. Let her know this “open marriage” crap is exactly that. You’ll never agree to it. A marriage is between one man and one woman, just as your marriage vows stipulate.

BTW, that line about "we were over before the adultery" is classic. They usually say something like that so they can continue to justify their cruel indulgencies to themselves.

Hang in there, D2m3b.

Is it possible for the percolation to be complete already?
Oh Man. I wish I was more prepared for this… Here’s another unexpected chain of events. Again, something positive that had never been on the bargaining table before, but again… with stipulations.

W went to see her lawyer for the 1st time today. In my best effort to make a long one short… W wants me to drop the entire divorce. She will agree to keep living under the same roof. She can’t promise to be intimate with me, but is willing to stop pursuing OM. She says that we just can’t do the “custody thing” to our kids and that “she would rather sacrifice her own life (as in freedom of choices, etc) and live with me in ‘misery’.” (Makes me sound grand, right?) She wants to go to our cottage tomorrow. And as her show of good faith, she wants me to go with her and the kids. She says that I can trust her and feel safe dropping the whole D. That she never meant to be taking the kids from me; just that she wanted out, and the chance to start an independent life. She is willing to give anything a try right now, but that she cannot make any promises for how well we will get along, or if there will ever be love in our marriage. But she is willing to live in a loveless marriage if it spares our kids from going through a custody dispute. I asked if she would enter into IC. She said enquired for what. I told her that it doesn’t have to be for anything in particular; just get in there and start talking. I hate to be “forcing” or making an ultimatum of her getting into IC, but figured that I had room to bring it up, since I am in IC, myself. Also, I told her yesterday that “open marriage” was crap. I think she got that point pretty quickly.

I know. I know. Everyone is going to warn me about listening to the alien. And believe me you; it is indeed weighing heavily. And even though she has not offered me a golden solution; her offer does address my main concern from the get-go; I can’t live so far away from my kids. Plus my 2nd concern about my oldest son being drawn into the A was put to rest the instant I informed the OMW. So with those 2 items out of the equation, then I really and truly no longer have a reason to make me want to follow through with D. She knows that I am having trouble trusting her on this though. So she even said, if you feel that things start to go bad, then go ahead and strike up the D again. She said that she is asking for a leap of faith right now so that we can start building trust in each other again and start trying to repair some of the damage that we have caused each other.

I did make a classic BS mistake tonight though. Since we were opened up and speaking more truthfully that we have in… well, maybe ever… I didn’t catch myself before I was already going down the path of “every thing she’s done in the past 10 years” and hitting the points of why I not only may doubt her words now; but also strongly wonder if she EVER even really loved me at all. She was highly offended and went in to tears again. (I didn’t mention previously, but she had been crying through half of the material above). She said that that is ridiculous; that of course she used to love me; but that there is only so much emotional abuse that anyone can take. Which is true by the way, I can see now how I was pretty bad for a few years there. Then she also pointed out that she was not an easy person to live with either. So at least it wasn’t one sided. She left the room shortly after saying in a partial-threatening, but mostly-reluctant tone, “Fine, guess we’re going to court after all...” I quickly realized my BS mistake and went down to her. I pointed out to her that she had wanted me to open up more to her for a long time, so I was asking if she could please not walk away in a conversation when I was doing so; and I noted that I probably was asking her to address a little too much for a 1st step. She then brought up a point that I definitely agree on; It would be better for the 2 of us to make any decisions about our kids TOGETHER rather than letting some judge that doesn’t even know us make the decision. Unfortunately, “that Judge” was my best defense when she was planning to leave with the kids. I would much rather not having to be defending against that from the get-go.

As you can see, another hesitation of me ending separation now; is my fear that 10 years of damage cannot be repaired, or be repaired quickly enough, or if she even commit to change herself too, or if she will just quit on me again. But… I guess that’s why it would be called a leap of faith, right?

So if my 2 reasons for needing to file D are truly put to rest, then aren’t I finally in a “normal” situation like most of the other BHs on this site? Can I stop LBing with D proceedings and commit to a solid Plan A? Or is it all just alien talk. I’m feeling that there may still be a tad bit of alien talk; but on the other hand, I think that the fog lifted enough today when she talked to that lawyer; that she finally realized FOR REAL that there is no glamorous life waiting for her if we separate; no matter how much she “wins.” And if the price for her realizing that was me filing for D; then it was worth the price to me. But I’d rather drop that option ASAP if possible. On the other hand though, she really wants to take kids to the cottage tomorrow at all costs. But she know that she will have to drop the trip all together if she needs to be preparing for court.

Even short of dropping the D; if I go with her tomorrow to the cottage, that will work against me if this ever goes to court. Reason being “Set Precedence”. It could be argued against me that I am never with the kids w/o her; and I need her help in order to care for the kids; and the cottage serves as one of our residences.

I am hesitant; as I should be. But I am really thinking that I am going to take that leap of faith tomorrow that she is asking for. As always, I am open to advice and criticism. But for now, I think that I am really welcoming a genuine chance to Plan-A her.

Today she did a few more things to continue her improving trend. She did those dishes in the sink that I didn’t get to last night. She did several loads of laundry for her trip. She helped me bathe the kids. She invited me down to watch a movie with my oldest son, who completed his 1st year of school this year. So there are several more behaviors that I feel that I need to embrace. Maybe it’s time to drop that D. Has it served its purpose?

Please respond soon, if you want to offer me something that I should know before talking with her again or making this decision.
--d2m3b.

She found out something in that meeting with the attorney, probably that she is in deep doo-doo. The problem is that if you drop the divorce petition, she has little motivation to keep working on the marriage. Your question is laced with legal overtones and I think your best bet is to talk to your attorney to discover what the implications are if you drop your suit now. Frankly, you need some legal agreement from her she will never attempt to remove the children from the home, state, or whatever. I don't know if it's legal, but perhaps you could both sign a document stipulating if either of you strays from the marriage again, the wayward one agrees to give up custody of the children or something like that.

Pardner, don't try to solve all of your problems in a couple of nights. There are lots of nights to get things settled.

Dad,

I like Longhorn's advice. Seek legal counsel about putting the D on hold if that is what you want. However, I really think you should stop and think what a marriage where there is no love, no affection will do to your children.

I realize she is in a fog. I realize that she may actually learn to love you and enjoy you again and you her, but it is not going to happen unless some effort is put into it. If none is put in, the results will harm your children even if you remain married. I would recommend you to Mortar Man's thread to see what can happen if things are not fully address. MM tried his best but his W never committed to recovery.

I think before D is taken off of the table, the two of you need counseling to help develop a plan to make the marriage something you both enjoy. It won't happen overnight, but without a plan and some time tables, the chances of success are not great. So discuss with her the possibility that you both actually put effort into being good, respectful, and fun with one another. Make plans that YOU BOTH agree to with counseling and a counselor to act as a neutral referee.

If these things are done, then suspend the divorce. If it is just her going to "suffer" through another 15-20 years for the kids, the kids will be hurt.

Please think about this, talk with your lawyer, talk with your IC, call the Harley's. You two need a plan, to address how you have treated one another in the past and how you plan to treat on another in the future.

Hope this helps.

God Bless,

JL