You can vent here...this isn't a criticism.

Your WH is betraying you...and you cannot force him to stop.

You are betraying yourself, and you are the only one who controls you.

"When I was in NY I paid $5 for a cupcake for OW's nephew and he didn't even eat it so OW and I did and it was the best cupcake I have ever had.

C'mon man!!!!!! was that really necessary to tell me.

Now he has ruined cupcakes for me to.

My repsonse to him was. Great I am glad you enjoyed it."

What isn't part of Plan A to calmly say, "Ouch! Knowing what you do with your affair partner stabs me in my gut. Wow. That really hurt."

That's honest. Truthful. Lying to him by omission is not.

You were not glad he enjoyed it. You lied.

And he can't ruin cupcakes for you...if you continue to believe this, that he controls you, then you cannot do Plan A...you're choosing to be a doormat instead of an honest, respectful, present spouse.

Who could laugh at that, Blind? Ohmygosh...MY gut hurt.

Know your truth and your boundaries. Enforce them respectfully. He cannot call OW from your marital home. Check. He cannot share what he does with OW with you as if he was not in an affair...presently in the act of betraying you and your family.

Your choice to participate in fantasy or live in truth. You can halve your pain by owning your part...and not self-betraying.

LA

Thanks LA for the reality check and the constructive critism.

I know my "friends" here will watch out for me when I am not watching out for myself.

After I vented we had no power for the rest of the night so I couldn't get back online.

My WH did go to the store and did bring me the yummiest cupcakes.

We sat and played scrabble and ate cupcakes for hours by candle light.

It was the nicest evening together that we have had in over a month.

I know I have to be true to myself and I will try to remember that on good days and bad days.

Today is a good day and I haven't said that in a while.

Thanks for making me "keep it real".

Blind

"After I vented we had no power for the rest of the night so I couldn't get back online."

WOW! Now that's a vent...knocked the power out, huh?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Do you find that the more you remain calm, the less reactive you feel, which gives you greater feelings of being in control? Are you more now in control of what is yours than you were ever before?

I'm always looking for a payoff...

LA

As I mentioned above. A power outage can do crazy things to you.

We had a great night played scrabble for hours by candle light and as the saying goes one thing led to another.

I hope I don't offend by writing about this but I have no one else to get an opinion from.

We went to bed and were joking around like the ole days and before I knew it......................

I was in the moment and trying not to over analyze anything.

I know for a lot of guys sex is just sex.

Tonight after work while he was in the shower I checked his phone and of course there were text messages back and forth during the day from the OW.

"How's my baby? he wrote to her. UGH!!!!!

I know they are 1000 miles apart and I know it is my decision weather Plan A includes sex or not.

Anybody think it was ok or a mistake???

Blind

Your choices are yours, Blind...If you do not worry about your health, I won't, deal?

Why do you believe for a lot of guys sex is just sex? Then how would it be an emotional need?

LA

I do care and worry about my health.

I guess I was just grasping for some shred or sign of the man I have loved for so long.

I saw him for just a minute and it made me realized how much I really miss they was he was before all of this.

Blind

Does anybody have tips on how do stay in Plan A when the WS seems totaly disconnected one day and present the next?

Somedays I get a flicker of who he used to be and other days I am living with the alien again.

I guess I am ooking for tips on how not to go crazy on the bad days.

I really don't know how some of you have done this for years.
I applaud your efforts!!

Blind

Focus on YOU.

You should realize that after an intimate/connected night like last night that he is going to withdraw. Part of that is concern for you actually. He remains conflicted and doesn't want to instill to much "HOPE" in your heart as he thinks your relationship is really/probably/maybe over. This is your opportunity to step back yourself, understanding that you can't fix this overnight and being pleasant and fun to be around.

Concentrate on meeting his other emotional needs and continually working on yourself. Make plans to go surfing yourself with friends and invite him along. Go surfing regardless and breathe in your life. This is not the time to get clingy or needy. Anticipate his intimacy dance and dance along with him.

Mr. Wondering

you are the best.
Thanks.

I know I am just in the begining of the journey.

Boy does it suck.

Blind

I am meeting as many of my WH EN as he will let me.

When I leave the house I don't kiss him goodbye or say I love you.

I feel this is betraying my self.

There seems to be a fine line for me between being needy and showing affection.

Is it OK to show affection in Plan A?

If I say I love you when leaving in the am how much of a chance am I taking of pushing him farther away?

If there are any WS out there I would love some feedback as to how you reacted when your BS tried to show affection.

Thanks, Blind

"When I leave the house I don't kiss him goodbye or say I love you.

I feel this is betraying my self."

How is this betraying yourself? You have a desire to kiss him goodbye and tell him you love him...why? Why do you have this desire? Could it be coming from your great desire to be kissed, told you're loved?

Giving yourself affection is important...sounds nuts, was huge for me. Self-hugs, massages, rubbing my own feet and hands...

What you crave most from someone else, give to yourself. No betrayal.

From my experience, Blind...as a WS, I could twist anything...non-affection as withdrawal, affection as needy, guilting...into something to justify me continuing what I was doing...my A burned out...my WH's didn't...what knocked his out was seeing me take care of myself, be respectful and really, transformed. Like MrW is saying...and I learned that my very presence was a form of affection...attention...admiration...and appreciation...because presence, even without action, has influence. It's a choice and it matters.

Know your power, Blind. And dig into why you're doing what you're doing...not just manuevering, 'k?

LA

I am doing what I am doing because I believe in my family and I want to try my best to keep it together.

I don't need him to be happy. I feel in the past we have brought out the best in each other and we used to be best friends.

I am trying to show him that. Even though he isn't seeing anything right now it does make me feel good to focus on that good times we had in the past.

This may not be healthy but I am trying to imagine the man I know he was before this. Not the alien he is now.

I guess what I was asking was, I know Plan A is about meeting his EN that I can.

It is just hard to sit across him at the breakfast table and not kiss him or tell him I love you.

I want to do this because I am still very attracted to him, not because I want to "win him back".

It is so hard to feel so much love for someone and have them say " I don't think I love you anymore"

I know the fog speaks.

I'm just so in love with the real him.

Blind

Hey there,
I am still searching I guess for the magic answer.

This fog like state is so bizarre.

My WS is still living in the house with no talk of taking a trip to see the OW. So far as I can tell she isn't coming here wither right now.

He is now working weekends so our time together is almost at nothing.

I know some of you have been in Plan A for years with no lifting of the fog. Can anybody out there give me some positive stories about the fog lifting sooner than later??

I am working on myself, making the home happy and safe.

Not asking questions about the relationship or the A.

I just feel like I need to somehow evaluate if anything is reaching the real him. And I can't figure out how to do that.

Any ideas????

Blind

Blind, I got caught up in your story, ended up reading the entire 11 pages of postings.

My story is so similar to yours. And I'm just about where you are. So I can't give alot of advice. Just letting you know I feel your struggle. I know what you mean when you say you just want to reach out to them, tell them you love them. But they treat you like poison, almost. That's what my WS has been doing for the past three weeks or so. He won't even hold my hand in the car, anymore. He's in a total fog over the OW. Has "strong" feelings for her, and isn't ready to give them up yet, so he tells me. He's not living at home right now, so this makes this difficult. My WS did the same thing as yours ... went on a trip and got busted while he was gone. I had to wait a full three weeks before seeing him. Boy, what that tough.

Anyway, blind, I enjoyed your thread. If you need someone to vent with, page me here or email me at [email]juliemccune@hotmail.com.[/email]

Our stories are sooooo similar.

rltraveled,
I am so sorry you are going through the same thing.

My WS was home all weekend so I wasn't on line.

The past 2 days I think I may have seen a glimmer of light through the fog.

I don't know if it is wishful thinking or a true break through all of the fog crap.

I will look for your thread, and hopefully "talk" to you soon.

Blind

So after a great weekend together.

And him saying this morning, I love you have a good day.

( He hasn't said I love you for a month)

I got an opportunity to check his cell phone. There were some text messages back and forth today but no phone calls yesterday or today?????

He was home alone all day today and out for about 5 hours yesterday so he definately had the oportunity to call her but didn't. Just texted.

Maybe him pulling away from the OW slightly??

Maybe just wishful thinking on my part??

Any opinions???

Blind

How fickle is the fog????
Last night he was on his cell phone for an hour with the OW.
This am when I checked his phone the text messages between them were:
OW. I wish you were here. (she's 1000 miles away)
WH. sleep well knowing I will be soon

Today I was awakened with kisses and hugs.
He even asked me what time I would be home, and said have a great day?

Have any of you out there dealt with this back and forth moment to moment???

Blind

I will repeat some advice that I've heard a lot of ...

You need to TALK to your H. Set your boundaries. "Speak your truth" as LovingAnyway puts it. It took me a long time to figure out that you can do that without lovebusting, DJ's, etc., and all as part of Plan A.

Simple, easy, truthful statements about how you feel -- how you REALLY feel -- are more productive and more honest than walking around on eggshells just trying to please him. You can't control how he reacts, you can't make him tell you his plans (he'd probably lie about it anyway), all you can do is be open and honest about your feelings, and try to create a safe place for him to do the same. Which he may never do, but that's ok, too. You can only control you.

It took me a loooooong time to figure this out, and I'm still working on putting it into practice, but I will tell you I can already see the benefits, and am much more comfortable and happy this way then when I'm worrying about what effect I will have on the other person.

Thanks for responding. How do I do that while in Plan A I am trying not to have relationship talks?

I have asked him to keep his phone on silent so if she calls I won't know about it. I have to keep what I know about the text messages because he doesn't know that I check them. If he found out he would keep his phone closer to him. That is my only way to snoop.

I know you said you are still trying to put this into practice. I also know what you mean about the eggshells. I am so worried about what is right and wrong to say.

I also know I can't control him or his reactions. I guess I am just to non-confrontational.

How do I bring up my boundaries with out talking about the relationship?

Blind

Relationship talks are different from simple statements of truth. You aren't begging or hammering him with questions, or asking where the R is going or giving long, rehearsed speaches.

You just say what you're really feeling, without worrying about whether it's the "right" thing to say or not. If it's the truth, and it's respectful, then it's the right thing to say.

"Wow, babe, I love waking up to hugs and kisses like this in the morning. I feel so connected to you."

"It really hurts my felings that you're talking to another woman instead of to me."

"Please don't (text, call, take her call, whatever) with her here, in our home."

Whatever it is that you're really feeling.

It's not about trying to manipulate his actions or "make" him do something (stay with you?) by saying or doing the "right" things (and avoiding the "wrong" things). It's about being honest and real and giving him the room to be the same way. Totally opposite everything I've ever learned, but very freeing.