For the WS who comes back:

1. You can't live with the vision of your WS having sex with someone else.

2. You don't think you can ever trust the WS again.

3. There were multiple A's and it seems impossible to cure the problem.

4. Your friends and family can never accept the WS after what has happened.

For the WS who does not come back:

1. The WS is addicted to the excitement and thrill of the affair and moves on to another as the first one burns out.

2. The WS has a sexual addiction but refuses to seek help for a cure.

3. The WS won't come back because he/she believes the damage caused by the A is irreparable (trust, etc.)

4. The WS has re-written your marital history while under the fog but has brainwashed his/her self to believe it even after the affair burns out.

Wow - so what is the point of trying to get the marriage back??? This is the million dollar question...

I can totally see that all the above are/could be true in my situation, but why does one still fight even if they believe the above statements are true??

They aren't necessarily true; they may or may not be depending on the case.

You could also add:

- Some WS could be of weak or questionable character and will cheat again regardless if its in the same marriage or a new one.

They carry it with them where ever they go because they don't realize changing everything but themselves won't fix the problem.

The thing is, most of those reasons why not to reconcile with a wayward spouse who comes back to the marriage are emotions experienced by the betrayed spouse very early in the recovery process. One learns the images are much worse than the reality and one trusts again as the wayward spouse earns it back. Friends and family will generally accept what the betrayed spouse accept. If they don't, new friends can be made and extended family can be cautioned they need to respect the betrayed one's wishes. Multiple adulteries are, of course, nearly impossible to recover from.

As for the wayward spouses who do not come home, I think the argument is moot, isn't it? Perhaps I don't understand.

Here's another reason some marriages just don't make it...... the marriage is way out of synch, and filled with the problems that created the vulnerability for an affair to take place, and those problems either aren't addressed and resolved, or, all efforts to resolve those problems simply aren't successful.

SD

my family would lynch him if they saw him...xh that is. he has had ZERO CONTACT with any of my family since I left him...no contact. NEVER SPOKEN to any of my family members b/c he is A LYING COWARD.

he couldn't do it. couldn't face em. just could sign the checks of his parents, pay them off, to buy acceptance for his immorality.

his actions when I left him were totally in the eyes of now myself, and definitely in eyes of my family, irreconciliable...he did something quite abusive and as a result I had bruising...my family will never forget that and won't forgive him....and he's never asked for it either.

my xh did things that were/are sooooo bad that he knows his bridges were burned by that point.

i can barely look at him to this day. he knows that. and he has forged himself the chains that now tie him forever to his unholy mistress/wife. he dug the grave he is now in.

i am in sort of a black mood tonight...

today makes seven years to the day I lost my true knight in shining armor..the man who would have always been my defender and my rock...my father.

i lost him seven years ago this night.

to this day, I am still in shock that in the wake of my fathers' death...just two years later..while I was still suffering and just learning how to deal and cope, that my xh would violate our vows and do the dastardly (replace d with b ok?) thing and become the "creature" he is still to this very day. My father would have hunted him down like the dog he's become after finding out what he had done.

I really am missing him now...my dad...

I am 100 percent supportive to bs who truly want their m back and work like heck to achieve it. I really am.

but there are some who along the way, will lose ALL MOMENTUM...it's not bad. it is not a fault. every person has their breaking point. and some will find it.

others will reconcile and do wonderfully as many here have..

others will never reconcile and end up doing wonderfully as I have.

and others sadly, will reconcile and still end up divorced..probably due to some of the issues that you initially brought up. unless the heart and soul of the WS is 100 percent committed to change and to making amends for their wicked behaviors, I think all the above could really RE HAPPEN AGAIN...

unless there is a true change of heart and soul and mind.

I don't believe WS's change unless those three things are altered: heart, soul, and MIND.

Longhorn,

It's not really an argument, just an observation. Some wayward spouses who don't come back may actually want to, but feel they can't because of the damage done, bridges burned, etc.

Shattered,

Good point. Very true. And some marriages fail because of the deep seated flaws in one spouse that only come to the surface when the right conditions are met, none of which may be the responsibility of the BS.

Longhorn
"One learns the images are much worse than the reality and one trusts again as the wayward spouse earns it back."

What if this is not the case. The reality was much worse then the images. Up until about 3-4 weeks ago I had the images in my head of what happened and now the reality is much worse?

I personally believe this is why radical honesty is so important. If I would have known the reality of what happened then I would have reacted differently. Not saying a D but a lot of the behavior I have tolerated I would have had a lot less tolerence for. Because I did not believe that behavior contributed to the A in the first place. Now I know differently.

Hiker,

"Good point. Very true. And some marriages fail because of the deep seated flaws in one spouse that only come to the surface when the right conditions are met, none of which may be the responsibility of the BS. "

I agree and I think again this is why radical honesty is necessary. If you are not being honest with the BS then they will work on issues that are not real or pertinent. The deep seated flaws need to be addressed. You can hope for recovery in the face of these deep seated flaws as long as you know they are the true issue. IC, AA etc can help with these flaws once they are realized.

I really believe the main reason it won't work after an A is a lack of remorse on the WS part. Continuing an A after it is exposed, dishonesty, lack of empathy etc will make any sane person realize that things are not just their fault as the WS would have you believe.

The WS will focus on the BS' past mistakes as to why this happened but not want to count the A as a past mistake.(in some cases) IMHO.

"1. You can't live with the vision of your WS having sex with someone else.

2. You don't think you can ever trust the WS again.

3. There were multiple A's and it seems impossible to cure the problem.

4. Your friends and family can never accept the WS after what has happened.

For the WS who does not come back:

1. The WS is addicted to the excitement and thrill of the affair and moves on to another as the first one burns out.

2. The WS has a sexual addiction but refuses to seek help for a cure.

3. The WS won't come back because he/she believes the damage caused by the A is irreparable (trust, etc.)

4. The WS has re-written your marital history while under the fog but has brainwashed his/her self to believe it even after the affair burns out."

All of these are conditional on forecasting the future and not living in the present. They give the BS that endless mirror reflection and they experience all of the emotions as if they are happening repeatedly, endlessly.

Which is what I hear Hiker saying about the WS's who don't come home...they predict there will only be more suffering and pain, so do not come back.

Two people doing the same thing, same result. Only takes one to change the dynamic.

Switch to the present...and acknowledge:

"1. You can't live with the vision of your WS having sex with someone else."

You are living with those visions...and you have control over them. Greater or less than reality...you have the choice over your thoughts...

"2. You don't think you can ever trust the WS again."

See how living your future creates it? Acknowleding you don't trust your WS now matters. It is reality. You don't know what you will do in the future...trust is two ways...first earned, then given...you have a part, a choice...a slow process...predicting the future robs you of your own choice and experience.

"3. There were multiple A's and it seems impossible to cure the problem." This is a truth worth living up to--you can't cure a human being...the human does. I was a serial cheater...I believe getting to the truth of one A or several is the same...getting to the truth of self. However, if a BS continues to choose to view their spouse as something they can cause, control or cure...there is no chance of recovery due to being disrespectfully based in fantasy.

"4. Your friends and family can never accept the WS after what has happened." Again, predicting the future cements it...what you can accept matters...what others accept or do not, doesn't...you're half the marriage...they are not...and the more you hold to your own boundaries, the more others respect and choose their actions accordingly...predicting others will reject and then cutting off their opportunity to choose, is a DJ...cuts off the opportunity for friends and family to love, anyway.

"For the WS who does not come back:

1. The WS is addicted to the excitement and thrill of the affair and moves on to another as the first one burns out.

2. The WS has a sexual addiction but refuses to seek help for a cure.

3. The WS won't come back because he/she believes the damage caused by the A is irreparable (trust, etc.)

4. The WS has re-written your marital history while under the fog but has brainwashed his/her self to believe it even after the affair burns out."

Brainwashing doesn't last...I believe when WS's take their journey solo, away from their marriage partner...at some point, they learn...God never stops reaching, signalling, what their soul wants...and the jumping into the future is another device of distraction used to self-deceive.

I use these parallel perspectives to show how much alike a BS and WS can become...their choice...and it begins with choosing the perspective of the present. Not the future.

LA

I should have entitled this thread "Reasons why it might not work . . ."

Part of the reason I started it is to try to account for all the apparent Plan A/B failures that seem to be occurring on these boards.

Yes, I know there are a few successes, but I am still haunted by those poor BS's who have been working for years rather than weeks or months at trying to get the marriage back on track with little or no success.

It's frightening.

Gee, HL, what is your highest EN?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I would agree that living in the future is a bad idea.

However we are a product of our past. If we do not learn from our past we are doomed to repeat it.

In this case I think if you look at underlying factors that may have contributed to the A then you need to see changes in those.

I IMHO trust is the most important issue. Again back to radical honesty. Since the A I have tried to trust my FWW and it has not really worked out well for me. I believe that with trust anything can be rebuilt.

However while the FWS or WS is in the fog nothing matters not even trust.

I also believe that genuine remorse on the WS can help through this time.

No matter how long ago the A happened and what happened during the A if remorse is present after the fact then you have a chance. If you see true remorse you can start trusting they know what they did was wrong. Then you will look at that past and know they learned and may not repeat it.

I believe at some point we all want to save our M but now I will put it back on the BS.

How many sit there and try to win their WS or FWS back just to prove to themselves they are not worthless? In the meantime they don't see what the BS or FWS is doing good.

I am rambling on this but I think it is a good topic. People should know what they are getting themselves into when they want to recover from this.

I think there needs to be more this type candid discussion. For whatever reason, it seems to be taboo here to discuss the idea that recurrences of affairs, old or new, can happen (even years later) once a person has had one. Which I have witnessed too many times to count in my years here.

Even Willard Harley has said that if his wife was to cheat he would divorce her, no question.

Did Harley really say that? That's incredible!

You don't suppose that's Harley's way of preventing an affair by making the outcome clear should it happen, do you?

I always told my WH that if he ever cheated it would be over. Didn't stop him. He would always kid me and say..that's all it would take?

I am apparently one of those people. I don't post out here much because I have been stomped sometimes because some people think theirs is the only way.

My H's A began about 3 years ago. Was EA for around 6 mos. to a year (I think) became a PA which lasted a little over a year. I didn't find out until all this had been going on for almost two years. I took 6 months to gather evidence (PI, all kinds of stuff) and when I had absolute proof, I exposed. The PA ended. The EA did not. In fact, there is still some limited contact even now. I plan Ad for almost a year. I plan B'd (with a plan D) when I just couldn't take any more. It seemed to work, but even the NC letter was a sham. He is completely unrepentant, everything has always been my fault, yada yada yada. I continue to be the best wife he will allow me to be, and yet there is no recovery. At my age (57) I have decided I can wait until he regains his sanity. I really don't know if that is what MB would have me do, but it is my approach at this time.

I would love to have advice on what to do next, but don't need more criticism - I get plenty of that from my WH.

This thread struck a chime in me - as I have feared, maybe it will never work out. Several of the things you listed fit my situation to a T. I even did phone counseling with Steve twice, but WH REALLY resented it.

I would love to know how this is all going to turn out, but right now it's like staring down into a dark hole. And I have been staring into it for 3 years, approximately.

Any suggestions? Any help for a struggler? No 2X4's, please.

God, how I wish I could help people who are feeling the same pain as I am!

That may be the only saving grace of this board for people like me, that sharing our pain helps us through it.

For weeks I grasped at any thread of hope at saving my marriage. I tried so hard to find a solution to my own dilemma from the experience of others. I applied the MB principles as best I could, and yet I am clearly headed for divorce as soon as it is legally available.