Ok, here's my exhausting situation, though after reading a great many of these it almost seems somewhat trivial, and pety at best. As of last week I have had a great sense that something more was going on behind the scenes in my relationship. A coworker of my fiance' has expressed feelings toward her, saying things like I want you to be happy, I want you to say you want to be with me. That was last sat. I found them. When confronted, though I reacted rather pathetically for a man, I was crushed, told it was nothing, nothing was going on, she didn't know he felt this way, etc. She works at a restaurant bussing/ waitress and sometimes doesn't arrive home until after 1. I have expressed dislike for the hours as they take away from us. But, for 4 yrs. I was the only 1 working. Full time days, and side work at night & weekends. Now she's working close to full time. Over those 4 yrs I had an emotional affair online that lasted all of a month, once revealed was ended, and I haven't looked back because we were starting to get through all those things. She tells me now that I'm over reacting, which may be true, she's now working, her time is less known to me. She assures me she wouldn't do it to me, she's upset at the accusations mostly because we had come so far and my reactions ahven't been exactly what MB says I'm suppose to do. Some is, but still I have the overwhelming urge to freak out. I feel like I'm getting clingy, maybe to possessive, but I fear I may have pushed her away enough over the years that she's finally through with exhausting efforts on me. She says she won't leave me for another man, she doesn't want another man. She says she's never wanted another man, she just wants us to be happy and that my jealousy over one man's interest has got me acting crazy. Like I said, maybe she's right, maybe I have gotten so use to her being around that now I don't get to see her and I miss her much more, and it's taking its toll on me. I just need some consult here. My peers here tell me conflicting views, or one sided and biased, so I need an outside opinion.

Weightless words, MD2...wow, great sentence. You've identified your big fear...now, hold it and do not choose to act from it.

You have realized a bunch in a short time...fear drives us, if we allow it to...otherwise, it would be a fretful little child inside...change your motivation to love...

You fear greatly...yourself. Not living up to your desires...because you have pain, rejection, shame, guilt, anger, and other feelings as well. Your fear that she will not believe you, give you time to demonstrate your changes through your actions...is also your fear of failing you...

Great recognition...and control. You won't fail yourself. You're human...you're aware of what you've done and why you did it...and you're no longer afraid to change your beliefs.

Build your own trust.

Can you see where what triggers your resent is the same as what triggered hers?

"I have expressed dislike for the hours as they take away from us." This is something you now know both sides of...express that to her. Own that you get it...and you recognize her choice as much as you own it was your choice before.

"Some is, but still I have the overwhelming urge to freak out." Would this be another side to it...where she might have felt this way, also?

Know that you cannot push her away...she chooses...you can withdraw and increase distance...that's your choice. Have you read about pursuer/withdrawer? Worth a search.

Have you read "The Verbally Abusive Relationship" by Patricia Evans? Good information...might see your reactive relationship in there and know you both are not unusual, wrong or defective...and you can stop reacting and choose to act, instead. I advise you reading this book because in your post, I see some of what you do and what she does...not a one-way recommendation.

Your peers...your friends...want your pain to end swiftly because they feel your pain...the beauty of this board is that we've walked in your shoes and know it's a trip, not an event.

Print out the EN questionnaires and fill one out for her, to the best of your knowledge, and one for you...then ask her if she would change anything on it...(from your other thread).

Stop focusing on her words...they are hers. Listen and repeat. Inject that respect. She is there, with you...and you both have been living from beliefs formed from your early childhood...though you both have adult experiences...identifying and changing these beliefs changes you...

You are separate and equal...she is as capable as you are; as marvelously made and as whole. Know this. When you feel clingy, identify what you aren't giving yourself that you're wanting desperately for her to fill and give it in the way you want it. Stand back. Look within.

Breathe deeply. Slowly exhale. Do this a lot when you feel your fear jump up, above your head...

And when you post, break it into paragraphs...it is hard on the eyes to read, difficult for the brain to process, and to quote to reply to well.

Man, am I bossy today or what?

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This is different because you aren't married...and that doesn't mean you're second class...it means you have issues with boundaries and commitment...and want the commitment as some protection...I know you're in a committed relationship...but my definition of adultery doesn't fit in your case without a lot of gray in there...

In marriage, there are two parties. When one party puts another person ahead of the marriage, it is an affair. Whether they are sleeping together or not.

You're not married...engaged is declaration of intent. You have four years. Any children?

My experience gives me this perspective:

Before I was married, I feared it, greatly. I have feared failure all my life. That fear protected me from nothing.

I feared marriage so much I had two children out of wedlock, believing that I could be a better parent without splitting my effort off into both a relationship and mothering.

Yeah, I was a really messed up 27-year-old when I finally got the courage to say I do. Taking vows matters...being his wife and him being my husband was a shock to our systems...I didn't have clear lines in my life before. Marriage is clear lines. There are three parts...me, him and the marriage. I can honor the marriage even when I'm freaking out about him. I can act on behalf of the marriage, even when I'm angry with my H.

Stuff I've learned...

You don't have clear lines...you have words saying one thing and actions saying another.

If you were married, then she would not be in contact with a coworker who expressed feelings for her...that would be putting another person ahead of the marriage. You're not.

Tough place to be.

I believe you love this woman very much. I also believe you fear a lot more than you state. Is failing your number one fear?

LA

You are a wise, wise woman. So much of what you've said has helped me see things differently, helped me view them more objectively. This whole site has.

We've been together 4+ yrs, 3 kids, 6yrs and two 3yrs. olds.

Slowly I'm coming to grasp the concept of relaxing, having peace with myself and strength within myself to do what I can to just allow what will happen to happen, and apply what I'm learning about myself, my "new" eyes on my life, and my life.

So much has become vividly pictured to me now where as years ago I was oblivious, especially how to show her I love her. The words mean little when whispered, but the actions sound out like trumpets.

You mentioned fear, it use to be my greatest fear was life, living. So I made a life out of trying to die, mostly through substance abuse.

At around 22-23 I realized more that it wasn't living I was afraid of, it not be remembered. Not being Loved enough to be remembered.

When I finally met my F, I had found that love. We had children, I had my family. My only fear then was, losing my family.

But little my knowledge being a father and F/H meant more than paying bills, providing roof, etc. Slowly distance developed then, my fear of losing her subsided, I knew my kids would always love me, I was still immature in my thinking at that time. I didn't realize completely until recently.

At 27, I vowed the start of the year no more side work, so I could be home more. She started working, which she needed a break from 3 kids screaming daily, build her self worth back up, etc. Now she has that extra independance, and I'm at a loss because now I see her less, she's not always there for me when I need her I feel.

So my fear has grown from a general alone, loss, failure to completely failing, failing on my family. My kids. Her. ME.

So, it's safe to assume you have the counselor's position. I'm still lying on the couch doc.

You've been a tremendous aid in helping me cope with all of this. So far your the only one giving me advice, so my deepest thanks.

Great post, MD2...

Your identification of your fear...leading your life...living externally...failing yourself, then not; failing life, then not; and now failing everything, in a way...I did this and didn't trust my actions, either.

How about intent? Can you see your intent change over the years, or remain the same?

What about marriage? You've got the woman, the children and F/H...only not H...addictions involve an fantasy...so does playing house...affairs involve fantasy...would a commitment to reality be something you'd consider?

No bashing...just highlighting what you didn't cover.

LA

What did you find? Emails from the coworker to your fiance...or did you find your fiance and coworker together doing something inappropriate? If they were emails to her, how could she then say she didn't know how he felt?

Have you seen any other indicators her interest is straying? Cell phone records indicating and unusual number of calls (or text messages) going/coming from a particular number? Does she take cell phone calls and want to take them in private? Does she spend time on the computer using Instant Messaging, and change screens when you come near? Are there occasions when she isn't where she said she would be...unusual amounts of overtime...a pattern of coming home progressively later and later...unusual cash/check expenditures, strange purchases on credit cards, or too many ATM transactions...too many "nights out with the co-workers" after the restaurant closes? If you aren't seeing any of these, and haven't seen any other suspicious behavior, she's probably not engaging in inappropriate conduct.

If she is, it's not too late to save this marriage-to-be. Let us know, okay?

no emails, only text...once last sat, and once this am....when confronted last sat i reacted in a way that pushed her further...this am i reacted calmer, more composed, still overwhelmed....

she has been working late...and assures me it's becasue of what they have her do after they close, and it depends on who else is there. she said she spoke w/ her boss this eve about working so late and i assume it wont be happening again after tonight...


there is an increase in time away from the house when i'm not at home, w/ the kids....

i haven't had a chance to view any new cell bills, though i'm terrified of what they will reveal....

she blames it mostly on jealousy, somehting i wasn't accustommed to feeling. never was the type, then again, i never truly seen what i had. Now that i do, and i see the reality of not having her love because of my neglect, I'm making every attempt to rectify that. I've been on this site daily since all this started to unfold.

Perhaps it is mere coincidence, just the right slap in the face I needed to see what I stand to lose.

As far as a committment to reality, I am committed to it. We are planning our wedding for Feb. was originally intended for this Aug but post-poned due to a death in the family. I've always been committed, and I've always known that the internet had "every resource available" for anything, I just never really opened my stupid, little-man eyes to see I needed to make drastic changes sooner.

I think you need to find out a little more about what's going on, friend, before you get married. You may well need to do some changes in the way you interact with her, but those text messages are worrisome as are the late nights and time she spends away from the home when you aren't there. Check out the "Spying 101" link in my signature block for pointers on what you can do.

Hey, hey, hey...Love Busters (LBs) go both ways...to others and to self...

No little-man eyes or stupid. It takes what it takes to wake up, MD2...

Remember that. Comes in handy.

Great to hear about wedding plans...have to say...since I did it backwards, we got a JP in our livingroom and got it done on 2/14/89...because playing house first meant the big wedding celebration didn't have the symbolic meaning anymore...my experience. My belief.

Good to know you didn't have any unrealistic beliefs or fears keeping you from getting the certificate...that's what I was thinkin'.

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Oh, and mere coincidence to the slap in the face? I don't believe in coincidences.

LA

Not at all afraid of the big M word....it's the L word that terrifies me....LONELY.....or F=Failure.....the days do seem to get better....with small exceptions..my boss gave me today off b/c he see's it's affecting me....@ around 10ish this morning while still lying in bed together, her cell goes off, it's a text from him saying "r u busy?"...she said yesterday she told not to call or message anymore, then this....I asked why is his number still there...she erased it in front of me....I asked if she was going to call him back and find out what he wanted....she said if she ignores him enough maybe he'll get the hint....maybe she is being honest...maybe I'm just losing faith in myself and us....paranoia....either which way, I'm done, my body can't do this anymore. I'm excreting blood now, haven't eaten in days, my heart starts pounding enough to where my chest starts hurting....makes me think I'm having panic attacks or something. I can't live like this. So, I'm going to try. Give it a few months, keep checking up on somethings but no bringing it in the light until more concrete info is available. Until then I have to try and let go of the thoughts, or sontrol them enough to make it through each day. I also have to not withdraw from her, which is always me tactic, that or venting to another woman. And I can't run the risk in that, I did that once before and it got me to where I'm at today. Thank You all for your support and understanding. Without you I doubt I'd be handling this as well as I may be.

Easy, MD2...you're in a time of huge growth...you've got to concentrate on reality...

"I can't live like this." You ARE living like this. Know this fact...your fear isn't a giant, with hands like watermelons, clubbing at your body, mind and spirit...

It really is a small boy inside your chest...the sooner you get this belief changed...that fear is something outside of you, swamping you...invading your life...you'll understand that most of what you're triggering to in the present is accumulated reactions from a lifetime...going far back.

Breathe. Seriously. You are doing great damage to your body, through your emotions and your perceptions...you choose your perceptions, perspectives and beliefs...you save yourself. How this whole human plan works...

Know what's true...your F erased his name and said she would ignore him...now you can thank her for wanting your relationship, and ask her for a no contact letter to be sent to him, ending all contact...this is what she does to honor her marriage, even if she doesn't have a wit of feeling for OM...

Know you control your thoughts...you have about a seven-second window for not getting the accompanying emotional impact when a thought occurs to you...which means, you ditch the thought as soon as you think it...bless it and send it on its way. Mentally say, "I don't want that." If you do this repeatedly, you'll train your brain to stop handing you these images and retrieving the accompany fear, anxiety, anger and pain stored with those images...brain training tells self you care...you're in control...and that you've stopped living through other people...

You're connecting directly with self and that's okay.

What you tell self matters greatly. You are not choosing old behaviors...withdrawing and or venting to another female...EXCELLENT choice...you have a thousand alternatives you didn't see before...

You can write in an anger journal all about your anger...and learn where your anger comes from...and find out, humans get angry for healthy reasons...when they have their adult beliefs replacing their childhood ones...

You can own your feelings and express them with "I feel" and "I believe" statements, which tells self you're honest and aware...no longer dodging, rejecting self.

Staying present...if you feel attacked, state it and own it, "I feel very defensive. I have the strong urge to withdraw. There is a huge pool of fear in the middle of my chest."

Practice breathing and relaxing your shoulders...staying aware of your body is part of self...oxygenating your brain, well, obviously helps with the brain retraining.

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You are having deep fear reactions...to failure...how about changing your beliefs about failure...can you list what you currently believe about it?

LA

And once again your perspective on this is helping me to take it in easier. Things are getting better, the steps you stated to take to "retraining" my thought process I'm already working on.

The moment one enters USUALLY I dwell on it until I find some incling of reasonable doubt as to her truth. She's never lied to me before, she's always been "brutally honest" in many aspects of our relationship. Yesterday and today have been the best out of the past few weeks.

I'm coping a little better, easing off of the accusations, trying to let go of the finger pointing and change what I need to. She feels we're closer now because I'm opening up more, but in that I'm also pushing her away because of the accusations. Today there were none, and she was more affectionate.

Perhaps it was in my head. However, it doesn't chasnge what I've realized as far as what is needed from me for her and my kids. I have a lot of work to do on myself to be at least a good father and husband, and so for so long I've let them all feel as though I don't love them.

Our eldest son said the other day he doesn't want me here, he doesn't feel like I love him. And that breaks my heart, he shouldn't feel that. I shouldn't let him feel that. My father made me feel that, deliberatley. Mostly in retaliation to my mother, and I swore never to be him, and I am.

However, i'm not certain what to correct. Time. Affection. Attention. One day at a time I believe.