well the plan b concept is not working. he is not running back to me and all i feel for him now is hate, when i have to see him all i feel is hate. this is not what this was suppose to be. i have prayed for my marraige and family for this whole year and nothing. it was for nothing. the years we had meant nothing. he is with the person he loves and here i am still out in the cold, broken, too broken for anyone else. i wont trust anyone good who will come to me, because i feel they are lying or not really true with me. my selfesteem is so low that instead of building me up i hate me inside. I am not drawing anyone to me because i hate myself.
I did go to 2 counseling sessions and when they asked me what do i want... i said in my heart i wanted another chance at a good and happy marraige. they said ask him to go. i did he said i needed to go because i am an angry bitter woman (have become)- he dosent need it because its nothing wrong with him. That its been a year and i should be getting over this and past it. That my actions are not making me appealing to him.
I am not an bitter woman, angry yes that i have hoped and wished that my marraige meant something and it dosent and that i meant something and i dont.
no one is ever going to love me or see im not a horrible person.
All they see is a damaged woman- who tried so hard to save this.
He even said if it was reversed he would not have waited as long as i have he would have asked me once to reconcile and if i said no that;s it. That if someone dosent come home after almost a year that means they dont want too.
That they have moved on.
I cannot do this anymore- im going to be a divorced woman and alone.
I wish God would just take me now the pain is so bad.
i made him my life and my family and now look at where i am. the bottom and he and her are doing fine. They have each other- everything we worked for she is reaping the benefits.
why wont God do to him what he did to me so he could feel the hurt, betrayl, and hurt of this past year ikve gone thru. why cant she do him like he did me?????

WK,

I'm sorry you are in such a bad place right now. Please understand that no matter the outcome things will get better and you are not broken, just very hurt and in a lot of pain.

I do have a little advice, for what it's worth. Check out the "Own your own village" thread. I went through the exercise there with LA and it really helped a lot. Also LA has some wonderful insight to personal recovery. It can't and won't hurt to try it.

Good Luck and God speed!

i miss my mom so much... if she was here i wouldnt be like this.

Winter,

I know where you're coming from and I empathize with you; however, if you're not seeing IC, you should be. I sincerely mean this. The tone of your letter makes me concerned for you.

That being said, it takes at least two years (generally) for a WS to come around, if they will (ask SH). So, I know it feels like forever, but you still have a lot of time to give the marriage if you'd like to save it.

First thing you have to do is take care of YOU. Once you truly take care of yourself and get yourself out of this slump, you may just become more attractive without much trying. Again, make the center of your struggle to improve yourself. That may make WH sit up and take notice.

Hope I didn't offend, just offering my .02 cents!

Winter:

I really feel sad for you so I want you to make sure that you know that this is written with more care and kindness that this may seem. I am going to respond directly to what you have said in your post.



You have said LOADS here. The point of PLAN B is for you NOT TO SEE HIM so that you WILL NOT begin to FEEL HATE. If you have seen him or talked to him, you have not been in PLAN B.

Plus, PLAN B is not supposed to have the effect of him RUNNING BACK to you. The purpose of PLAN B is for you to safeguard your love for him and for you to get stronger. Well, read about it, Winter. I have encouraged you to read about the concepts and to follow what MB recommends as closely as you can.

The MB PLAN requires TIME and PATIENCE...A year is NO TIME...sorry..that is the reality of this..not just for you but for all of us here...

After following the MB as closely as possible, then come back and tell us how it is failed..not after a few weeks of attempting to follow the program.

I feel that you are GIVING UP without trying.

I want to encourage you to FIGHT by following this PROGRAM and not GIVING UP!!

I fought because I was not at all willing to hand my H over to another woman...

If you do choose to let him go, do it as a WINNER..not as a LOSER...not saying that he is with the one he loves, etc..

If he chooses her, he is settling for CRUMBS. You are the JEWELS..diamonds and rubies...

I read your post and spent a lot of time in the past thinking the same things as you seem to be feeling right now. First of all, let me tell you from my own personal experience.... get away from this man forever. You obviously are not in a place to handle this roller coaster any longer. Taking care of you is job #1.
Are you on an AD? Consider that and talk to your doctor. Next.... what could you do today.... yes, starting TODAY to make yourself feel better. I have some suggestions (and know that I am a man and might not see some obvious things a woman could do).
Exercise... begin an exercise program ... start slow and have goals. Nothing... and I mean nothing... will work better for helping you through this tough time than taking care of yourself. While you are at it... make sure your diet is healthy.
Go get your hair cut... nails done... maybe a massage. Anything that you find enjoyable just for "you."
Find a few close friends and start doing some things besides work and worrying. Make some time to spend quality time with you.
Find the worth in yourself and very quickly, others will see it too. I spent too much time thinking I was broken... never to be fixed. I was so beaten down by my XWP that I thought I was going to be alone and unhappy. NOTHING could be further from the truth. I soon came to realize that not only was I not going to be alone but that there were a lot of women out there looking for someone just like me. But if I continued to walk around with the attitude that no one would want me... then no one would. I decided that I have value and that anyone else of value will be able to see that... and you know what, I was right. There will come a time in the very near future where even if your WP decides he wants you back... you would never take him because you realized that you are better than what he offered you. The loss will be his and his alone. You will find life.
I can point to the day... and yes... it was one day... on moment where I finally said "enough" and moved on to a better life.
You deserve more than what you've gotten. So, the bottom line is .. it is out there waiting for you. Have the courage to go out and find it. Start with the first step.... today.
I wish you luck and prayers.

This is not helpful...

THIS MAN..is her H...

Winter, is GIVING UP and is NOT FIGHTING for HERSELF or HER MARRIAGE...

I do agree with her needs for an AD and a program of self-soothing and personal healing....

Says who? You... well my opinion is different.

If she cannot handle the conflict that has already happened and will most assuredly happen in the future... she should sever all ties to him.

Your way of handling this will surely leave her more vulnerable to feeling bad. She cannot afford to invest more of herself than she is prepared to lose.

The beauty of a forum is that people offer all different views and opinions. Give her yours and I will give mine and hopefully she learns somethings from the choir. As far as laying on her that she is not fighting for her M... save the guilt trip. Not all M's are worth saving. Not all WP's are worth that effort. Her only focus now should be on herself. This is a woman on the edge right now.... and she needs a lifeline to help her recover herself.

so winterkiss...

believes...

that

she only

has

goodness

love

value

and

worth....

if and only when it is given to her by ONE person on this earth.....

and without that one person on this earth.....


she is.... n o t h i n g....


the good news...

she is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
wrong.....

the bad news

she just doesn't believe us......

we are ALL wrong...

and only HE is right.....

boy he sure has a lot of power....

ARK^^

Winter,

I have missed and needed my mom very much while dealing with all this too.

I'm sorry and I understand how you feel.

(((((((hugs))))))))

Winter,

I ask this question of everyone in your position.

Were you ever happy before you met WH?

Most people say yes they were. If you were happy before he entered your life you can be happy one day if/when he is not your H.

M is not about two halfs making a whole. It is about two whole's coming together to make something better.

Just because he is not around doesn't mean you are not a whole person.

We all learn from the experiences we gain in life. The more painful the experience the more we should learn so we don't repeat it again and again.

I think the MB principles can work in a M but just not for everyone. Sometimes people try and decide there is just too much pain to deal with to keep trying.

It doesn't make them worthless or a failure. It does not make them worthless.

Right now the person that should love you the most does not see how much you are worth. That hurts a lot.

It doesn't mean you aren't worht something it means they just don't see it.

Right now I am facing a decesion myself and it is 3 years since the A took place.

My FWW just admitted about a month ago everything that happened. Quite frankly I don't know if I have the intestinal fortitude to try to recover from the A and the 3 years she has continued to lie to me.

I don't think it makes me a bad person I am being honest with myself.

In business people do a return on investment before making a decesion when making a purchase. If I spend x amount what am I going to get in return. Right now for you it sounds like you don't think that you will get a good return on your investment and are making a decesion based on that.

I know if I have to invest a whole bunch and the return is not worth it then the decesion is clear.

I know what people are going to say. Isn't the return of a good marriage worth the investment. Sure if you believe in your heart it will be a good M. That is not always the case though. Sometimes it just won't be a good M. It may fall on the BS it may fall on the WS/FWS that it won't be good.

I hate to see you give up but just remember if you do it does not make you any less of a person.

You are the one that should keep your head up. You are not the one that failed this M.

Winter:

You know why I have responded to you in the way that I have.

I have responded specifically to you in this way because I have followed you since the very beginning.

Your H is a what we around here call a cake-eater.

He fits the pattern of WSes who want the BOTH OF YOU and he has had the BOTH OF YOU and will have the BOTH OF YOU for as long as he can.

For those of you who have not followed Winter, she is the perfect candidate for PLAN B..that is if she chooses to and is able to follow through with that plan...

She has not been able to do without being in contact with her WH no matter how bad he treats her...

Maybe this is not a time for Winter to do this...

However, from what I have learned about her, she does want to reconcile her marriage and will probably not respond well to a post saying..forget about this man forever..or whatever..although this maybe what she needs and wants to do, she remains "in love" with her H...and likely will remain in contact with him...regardless of what we say to her..he knows this..

She has wanted to do this HER WAY..and I have been trying to help Winter with these plans because it seems that THESE PLANS would help her particular situation...

If we can encourage Winter to do PLAN B, IMO, that would be perfect...but this is, of course, not a PERFECT WORLD..and none of us are PERFECT....

I did go to the counsler for ad she said no because it may give me increased suicidal thoughts. I am in plan b- i havent had contact -called ect. he was here when i came home from school last nite- he took the kids to the show. I didnt know he would be here. I sat on the steps til he was leaving- said hi that's it. He started talking and it went from there. I had not talked or anything with him for 2 weeks- making sure i avoided contact.
I miss my mom because she died last year in Maay and i would have someone to talk to.
I dont share with anyone at work, and today i just couldnt get up to go today.
I stayed in bed until 12:30 when my mil came and said i had to get up and get out of the house because im killing myself. My son came and laid down with me. So i got up and am going to walk the dogs.
I appreciate everything you guys said and yes MiMi i am working it... you have to understand... my heart and mind are not letting me rest, i miss my mom and keep thinking of when i got baptised it seemed like all that was hidden - iguess came to light and my life changed ... my mom, tony, job, ect. I know in Job he lost everything and then it was restored to him.
I am in counseling, she said your strong Maury, its not you, its him- ask him does he want to go to counseling, maybe couples counsling. I told her hes not going to come he says its me.
I know its my mind- that keeps racing.... they weighed me an i have lost 58 pds. i have no apetite- havent had a full nights rest.
but they wont give me any ad's.
My aunt just told me she has breast cancer- it never seems to end.
So yes mimi - i am listening- it is a hard struggle and its not poor me! i just so tired

Winter,

I am so so sorry about how you are feeling.

You are definitely depressed and need to find the right AD but you do need an AD..

As others have said, the main thing now is for you to take care of yourself.

They wont give them to me. The psychiatrist and gen doctor said no.
honestly- i am working the program ... i havent gone back on my word. I am back in school and have a 3.5 gpa full time at nite, and work full time in day. i even got a scholarship and on the dean's list.
The nite i got the award - the kids couldnt be there and i was alone accepting the award.
I am trying and i know i made this man an idol for so long and to be tossed aside.....
i have asked God to please help and save me.
so .....here i am.

Winter,

You need to let everything out.
I am not kidding when I say this. go get a bat or a stick and find something inanament to beat the heck out of.

I personally took my golf clubs to the driving range and pounded balls till I couldn't hit them anymore.

Each ball I put on the tee was something I was pissed at. Then I swung as hard as I could and sent that thing sailing. By the end I was tired, hungry and most of all I got my aggression out.

Can't tell you how many of those balls were th FWW and the OM.

Even if you just want to take a stick and beat a tree it will feel good.

I know it sounds stupid but try it.

Heck I used to take the farthest mat on the range so if I started crying nobody could tell.

WK,
as someone who has suffered depression for a great deal of my adult life, I can so relate to how you are feeling. I do think I would call my doctor again. There has to be something that can help you. Maybe something like valium or elavil and not an AD. I think at this point you need to tell him you desperately need help.

I'm guessing from reading you have only been in plan b for 2 weeks. I know that must seem like an eternity, but I have faith that you can stick it out.

When you came home last night and he was there, why did you sit on the step where he would pass? Why didn't you drive off and come back 15 minutes later?

You need to come up with a plan for what you will do if it looks like you are going to see him. Avoid seeing him! You must.

Decide right now what you are going to do if he is there when you come home again.

DO NOT let him get his fix of seeing you- you are enabling the cake eating.

Stand firm- you can do this.

Hi Winterkiss,

I have been hanging in there with you over the past few months.

My fws dd was 8-20-2005.

The one thing that has helped me (beside saving my marriage), is that I regained my emotional health back.

I lost the crazy part of discovering the EA and I have lost acting in ways that are instictive but drive the ws away.

Looking at your post, I can see where you have never gotten past the extreme mood swings but have been permanently left on the crazy rollercoast ride.

I am not going to say "snap out of it", I am sure you would if you could.

From your description of yourself, I assume that you are clinicaly depressed.

I know most therapist won't subscribe AD without ongoing counseling.

So lets see what we can do, beside this.

Lets not focus any longer on whether your marriage can be saved or not.

Lets take one day at a time.

I have one of the worst cases of lack of self-esteem problems. (Really bad)

What I do for myself when those self defeating thought patterns enter my head is

Remember that my worth is based, not on how others perceive me but what type of chracter, beliefs and values I have.

I know that when I allow myself to judge my worth based on those that I love, approval or their dislike of me, it sets me up for feelings of worthlessness, depression, and the desire to give up and this is not healthy.

Strive to validate your own worthiness.

Make the improvements within yourself.

A big moment for me was when I realized, I could not change anyone but ME........

So the focus should be on your improvements.

When you heal yourself, and become self vaildatiing, and require no other persons approval or acceptance to realize your own self worth, everything else will fall into place.

You need to have those tools, Winterkiss.

My marriage had no hope until I had realized I no longer needed my fws to function as a human being.

So many marriages reach the crossroads sooner when the bs heals their own dependence on the ws, emotinally and financially.

Don't give up on yourself.



(((Winterkiss))


k.d.'s heartbreak

Winterkiss....I am new here...but am educated in the Marriage Builder site. I have been divorced for 4 years....and I read the posts. You have not wasted a year. Yes...you made mistakes...we all did. There is nothing wrong with you in feeling down and hopeless. This is a very normal response. I was there...and sought help. Yes...I went on antidepressants...which helped. I started to do things for myself...one was taking a walk everyday with my dog and talking to God. I got involved in my church...and had many friends to help me with bad days. Your self-esteem needs to be lifted...I was one that had hardly any self-esteem. I lost weight (the affair diet) and bought myself some nice clothes. I started back to school with 1st step. That is where the self-esteem for me started to come back. When I received A's & B's (for I set high goals of nothing lower than a B) I knew I was someone. I knew that I was valuable. I knew that God loved me dearly.

Once you get to the point that you are done...you need to set goals, 1 x 1. This last year was not a waste. You were learning and experimenting. The goals you set could be to go out with friends, go back to school, go for walks regularly, get to a gym, join a book club, activities at church or whatever. There is so much to choose from...and this will help dearly. In our church...we just started cell groups. I joined a cell and every Wednesday we gathered in someones house. I asked to not go to my house...and they were receptive of this. I even went to a painting tole class for about 6 months...and the projects I created were wonderful. I was experimenting with myself to find out what I truley enjoyed.

You my dear...need to focus on you and what you would like to do. I would consider counseling...which I did for quite a long time. Just to have someone that listens to you is essential. I have been off anti-depressants for about 2 years now. I am in school fulltime...and loving the life I have. I work partime for my church and love it. I am now dating a wonderful man...for 10 months. I did date 2 others and red flags went up. I did gain my weight back...and now that is my goal to lose this weight. I have about 20 pounds.

Hon, this year was not a waste....it was a learning experience. Life is one long learning experience....and some experiences will hurt you badly and some you will gain confidence.

Yes...we are all scared of changes. This is a normal feeling of humans. We were very comfortable with what we knew and had. Believe me...dating was one big scare. During counseling I asked when will I learn to trust. No one could answer that...but in time it started appearing. I really looked hard at the man...asked many questions...and if they were uncomfortable with my questions...they could leave. One of the guys I dated...was a alcoholic. The signs were there in the beginning and when I asked he denied being an alcoholic. Then the evidence came out. The second guy...I just didn't have a connection with him. He was nice...but there was nothing. I saw another guy for a few times...a realized he was a big time controller.

Your life will turn around...and you will move ahead and be so much happier. Would be nice for us who have been through it...to video tape our lives and fast forward for you all to see the progression.

Life is wonderful....and you need to start taking good care of yourself and doing things for you.

Blessings...LoveinHim

Winterkisses,

This is why you are in Plan B.

You had some contact with him last night, and now you are in crisis, couldn't get up till 12.30 p.m., feeling suicidal, etc.

I know the contact last night was unplanned, but stay dark. This is why contact is so harmful for you. It sets you way back.