Katie,

I did tell her about this website last night. We had a long talk after we left the party because she could tell I was pretty upset when we left. I told her again that I don't understand why she still wants to keep in contact with OM when he causes so much pain to me. She still thinks that he is a good person and she wants to see him grow, he's only 22, into the person she thinks he can be. This is so much like her, wanting to help people succeed and reach there full potential.

I think that is a great quality most of the time, but in this case, he needs to go his own way and so does she. I just don't think it's right for them to still have a friendly relationship. I know that they still call each other and talk, and it drives me nuts wondering what they say to each other. My wife says it's nothing, but I still wonder. Like if they talked today, did they talk about the party last night, and how each other felt with me being there. Was it uncomfortable. This kind of stuff I think is none of his business, especially now.

As far as the website, I told her I just found it a couple of days ago and that she might want to check it out. I also told her that I have posted on here, and she can take a look anytime if she would like. I want to be completely open and honest with her about everything.

Peter,

You said:

"She still thinks that he is a good person and she wants to see him grow, he's only 22, into the person she thinks he can be. This is so much like her, wanting to help people succeed and reach there full potential."

Have you talked to her about what his W might think about all of this? She really should be the one "watching him grow." This man is not a "good person", he's having an inappropriate relationship with a married woman.

Have you mentioned OM's W to your W? What is going on there?

Katie,

I have asked her once or twice about how she feels about his wife. I haven't pursued it to much because I think it brings up a lot of feelings of guilt, and I don't want her to hurt any more than she does. She has met the wife before, but I don't think they've spoken recently.

The OM's wife does know what happened. He told her about a month ago, and I believe that she is having a lot of problems with it too. I don't know what details he actually gave her, but he said he told her everything. My wife has said that the OM's wife doesn't have a problem with them remaining friends, but I think that it must still cause a lot of uncertainty in her head because of the betrayal of trust.

I get these details from my wife, because of course she still has a lot of conversations with OM. I think it is so inappropriate for them to still have private conversations between themselves about our marriages. I don't know if my wife talks about us and how we're doing, but I wonder. For me, one of the hardest things right now is just wondering what they talk about, whether feelings are brought up, and how my wife feels and reacts.

It has been almost 5 months now since D Day, but I still have days where the sadness is almost unbearable. The OM gave my wife a CD and his song to her was the James Blunt song Beautiful. Whenever I hear this on the radio, which is a lot, I can barely hold it together. Just to think that my wife had an emotional bond with another man that could have endangered our marriage is so hard. But I still know that she loves me, and she wants our marriage more than anything.

***My wife has always had close male friends at every place she's worked***

Hi PeterM,

Welcome to MB. You desperately need a book called *Not Just Friends,* by Shirley Glass. I think it will help to validate your own feelings, and if your wife will read it it may open her eyes to her own selfish and destructive behavior. Just leave the book out for her and tell you think it might help *both* of you.

Good luck,
Mulan

Peter,

Don't believe what your W tells you about OM and OM's W. She is lying to "protect" you. I know, I've been there.

Also, I know how much your W tells you she loves you, you are the love of her life, etc. BUT actions speak louder than words, and she can say you're the greatest 1,000 times, but her actions of continuing a relationship with OM are unloving.

Love is a verb. I didn't realize this until I started coming here.

Your W telling you she loves you like there's no tomorrow is true to a degree. But it's also a way to protect her relationship with OM (by making you feel guilty and paranoid.) If she REALLY felt that way, she would do everything she could to stay away from him. Leaving work is a good first step, but she needs to do more.

I agree with Mulan... Shirley Glass' book would be excellent to pick up. You can get it at pretty much any local bookstore. Get it tomorrow if you can, and read through it. Follow Mulan's advice, and say how it might help the both of you.

((PM))

Peter...

You around?

KM

Katie, I was thinking about that book as a possibility. I will take a look around for it. We are on holidays now for 2 weeks so I probably won't have a chance to post too much. I will try to check in when I can,but we are camping so won't have access to internet too much.

Peter,

We are all here when you need us. Have a good time camping and hopefully some good conversation will ensue...

PLEASE get the book as soon as you return... the longer you put it off, the more you might start thinking, "well, things aren't really THAT bad" (especially after coming off of a holiday.)

Check in when you can, and let us know how things go...

KM

I've been having a really hard time the last day or 2. My wife got a text message from the OM yesterday, and I didn't read it, but she know that I saw who it was from. I was hoping so badly that she would tell me what he said without me having to ask, but so far she hasn't.

Is it possible for her to completely change her feelings for OM into just feelings of friendship? She tells me this is what she is trying to do, and I don't know what to do about this. I can't imagine how that can happen for one thing. To have these feelings that are so confusing about someone, and then to just have those feelings disappear even though you stay in touch with that person. It still hurts so much to hear her talk about him, or to hear his name.

I don't know how to get over this feeling. She doesn't understand how I feel, she thinks that the only thing that matters is how she feels about me. And I know that she loves me, but I wish she was more compassionate about how I feel about what she did. No matter how I try, I can't just sweep it under the rug like she wishes I could. I know it will get better, it is so much better now than in the beginning, but it is just so hard to wait.

How long does it take for the feelings of mistrust and hurt to go away? Sometimes they are so strong I can feel them physically. My wife has mentioned a few times that she can't imagine how bad it would be for me if she had actually done something physical. I can't imagine it being any worse than it is now. It's not the actual action anymore that hurts, its the continuuing relationship even though she knows how I feel. Can I get over this for her sake and accept her being friends with OM?

Peter - I too tried to and wanted to believe that my WW could downshift her emotions from feelings of love to friendship. When she told me that they were now "just friends" I wanted to believe her. Guess what I learned? It's not possible for former lovers - even if no PA - to be friends.

Besides, just assume that it WAS possible. Why would your WIFE, the woman that pledged to honor and protect you not give this up instantly knowing that the relationship causes you pain? Because she's still in the Affair. Still addicted. Still getting those feelings of pleasure from the OM. Her care for your well being is not great enough to overcome her selfish desires. Sounds like an addiction, right? It is.

"Can I get over this for her sake and accept her being friends with OM?"

Your wife cannot have it both ways. She cannot be in a marriage AND have an extra-marital reltionship that you do not approve of. Does OMW know that he's still in contact? Have you spoken with her? Do you REALLY want this to end? Are you ready to make some difficult and scary moves?

Hi Peter,

Sorry things have been rough recently. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

You said:

"My wife got a text message from the OM yesterday, and I didn't read it, but she know that I saw who it was from. I was hoping so badly that she would tell me what he said without me having to ask, but so far she hasn't."

Stop hoping and start asking. You are in a lot of pain, and although things seem to be "getting better", you're feelings are not. Text messaging with the OM is NOT acceptable behavior. Your W won't tell you what OM says because she knows it hurts you. What does that say about her respect for you and your M? She continues to do something that is hurtful to you.

Your W just simply cannot be friends with this man. If this continues, I guarantee things will get worse. She is trying to control her feelings. That is impossible... just think of how understanding you are trying to be, but inside you are really seething. Can't control that feeling, can you?

I agree with MDC... you are going to have to step out of your safety zone and start making some scary moves. This OM (who is just a KID <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />) is a real threat to your M, whether your W thinks so or not. The fact that she DOESN'T see what it is doing to her M is even scarier.

Have you picked up the book yet?

How are things going today?

KM

We just got back from our 2 week holiday and it was a really good family time. We had a lot of fun with the kids and my wife and I had a really good time. I realize when we spend time together like this that my love for her just continues to grow. She is a wonderful woman and I can't imagine my life without her.

We didn't talk very much about the OM, other than the text message that he sent her. That brought up a few other things that she had done that I had no idea about. But we talked about them and I told her that if she would just tell me this stuff instead of me finding out after, it would be so much easier as far as the trust.

The first day home for me was very difficult because we were back in familiar sourroundings, and all the feelings of mistrust came back. Wife and I had a long talk last night and she said that she is not ready yet to cut off contact with OM. I told her how I feel, and for the first time I said that I don't want her to have anything to do with him in the future. She said that she knows that is what I need, but I think she resents that I want her to do this. She also said that when she is ready, soon, she will tell me the rest of the story that I don't know about. Nothing physical, but there is obviously more to tell.

She said that she didn't think that I was ready to hear it yet, and she is not telling me to protect OM from me confronting him. I don't understand how she still wants to protect him, and not concentrate on fixing what she has done to our marriage. She told me that she is taking the steps she thinks she needs to to repair the damage for me and for her. I am trying to give her space, but it is so hard to not wonder what her feelings are when she won't tell me. She did say that she never loved him, and that was reassuring.
Tomorrow she starts her new job, and I am hoping that will help me with the feelings of insecurity, knowing that she will not be seeing OM everyday.

Peter,

I continue to worry about your W keeping details from you when you ask her. I know she doesn't think she is protecting OM, but she is. She is also protecting herself from the consequences of her own actions. The fact that she thinks you're "not ready to hear it yet" is quite disrespectful.

While your W might not be seeing OM everyday, you won't know for sure if she isn't emailing or texting him at work. That is still contact, and just as dangerous. She will probably be distracted with the new job learning curve, but it could also make her insecure and resort back to her old ways.

Peter, I know in your W's heart she doesn't think she is doing anything "that bad" and she really doesn't want to hurt you. But not telling you what really happened because you're "not ready" and by not giving up the relationship entirely, she is only thinking of herself. Actions speak louder than words, and she is addicted to this OM, whether she wants to be or not.

I still wish you would talk to OMW, and pick up that book as Mulan suggested.

I think I am going to shout out to other more experienced MBers to pop by and give you a hand.

I'm glad you both had a nice time on holiday. Time together like that is always helpful... try and continue to "date" each other as much as possible. It works!

Peter - did you make copies of those e-mails from OM saying he wants to boink your wife?

I'm going to suggest something that contradicts the conventional wisdom usually given here, but then I'll explain my logic to give other posters an opportunity to refute it.

Here goes:

Call OM and tell him that unless he doesn't cease all contact with your wife that you're going to call his wife and rat on him.

See what happens.

If contact persists, immediately get a copy of those e-mails to his wife.

Usually I (we) don't recommend threatening an OP with contacting their spouse. We recommend just exposing to the spouse. Tipping off the OP that you're gonna contact the spouse just permits the OP to do pre-emptive damage control: "Honey, some whacko guy thinks I'm having an affair with his wife! Can you believe that?!? He's calling up all the guys' wives!!!"

Why do I suggest differently for you?

The guy is only 22. If his wife came here asking for advice, and assuming they had no kids yet, many of us would tell her to dump him. Young, short marriage, no kids - why bother? Then he'd be freed up to pursue your wife.

Secondly, you hopefully have the e-mails. Slam dunk to his "Honey, some whacko guy....! defense."

So, my logic is to scare him off. Later, when you and your wife really fix this, you can consider the civic duty of informing his wife anyway. This is the obvious downside of this logic - his wife remains in the dark until later.

JMHO

Katie,

First, thanks for your continued help with this. I really appreciate it. Your comments and those of other MB'ers have been really helpful.

I do worry about what my wife said as far as protecting the other man from my reactions when she tells me "everything". She said that I would probably be very upset with him when she does. I asked her how she can protect him from me when he is the cause of this whole thing. She thinks she owes him a level of trust due to feeling sorry for him. I'm not sure what this means, but it is confusing. When I first contacted OM after I found out about EA, he gave me his word that nothing would happen between him and my wife. I have asked him several times since then what exactly he meant, since he still was, in my eyes pursuing my wife.

I do worry about the stress of her new job, and that she will need a boost that she might try to get from contacting the OM. She has told me that she will tell me every time they talk, and what they talk about.

She really believes that by not telling me everything right now, that she is protecting me from being hurt. I know that I tend to take bad news hard, and it can really affect my self-esteem, which has never been the highest thing anyways. But I really feel like I'm a lot stronger now than I was 5 months ago, and I've told her that. I'm not 100% sure that I will be able to handle the truth, since I don't know what it actually is, but the truth now will be better than the agony of still wondering. When I first found out about this EA, I never thought that 5 months in, I would still be having suspicious thoughts about my wife. It was so hard to admit to myself that I didn't trust her, since I had always thought that we were so in love that something like this could never happen. I now know that that was naive thinking, and that no matter how strong a marriage may seem, it is not invulnerable to something like this.

I believe my wife totally when she tells me that she loves me and that she wants our marriage to work no matter what. I just wish that we had that trust back 100%, so that I could get on with life instead of worrying about my marriage, which is the most important thing in the world to me.

OMW does know what happened. OM told her about 2 months ago, and from what I understand, they have been having problems for quite a while. I have never talked to her myself. Do you think I should actually call her? I'm not sure if this would help anything, since she already knows everything.

I have been trying to find the book "Not Just Friends in some of our local bookstores, but haven't found it. I am going to try Chapters after work and see if they have a copy.

Hi Peter. I just read your whole thread. This above quote keeps jumping out at me. How do you KNOW OMW knows? Because the lying, cheating OM said so? Those of us who have been around these boards know that it is rare for waywards to confess when they are still actively persuing an A. Go back and read WAT's suggestion. It was on the money in my opinion.

Next get the book "Surviving An Affair" and the book "Not Just Friends". Your W not telling you the whole truth is like pulling the bandaid off your wound each time you hear something new. She needs to get the whole truth out ther on the table.

Peter, have you read the whole site, not just the message board? Click on the link in my sig line. There is much to be learned here. Hang in there.

Wat,

Thanks for the post. I didn't keep the emails that you are talking about. At the time, I just wanted to try and forget about them and never see them again. But they are still very fresh in my mind.

As far as telling the OMW, she already knows. He told her about 2 months ago. I only know this based on what he told me in an email, and my wife confirming it. From what I understand, they had been having problems for a while. She sounds like she has taken it better than I have, and I wonder if that is because she doesn't care.

I do worry about what if their marriage does fall apart, will he then start pursuing my wife openly. I am 99% sure that my wife would not fall back into it, but I would have also said before this happened that I was 100% sure it wouldn't have gone as far as it did.

P.S. I don't mean to sound ungrateful, but I would appreciate it if you don't use the term boink in conjunction with my wife. I have too much respect for her to use a word like that. Thanks.

PeterM,

Read this post by Pepper of Joesph's letter Joesph's letter . I think you need to print it out, change the names to your W and you and give it to her.

Now let me address a few things that I see. First, it is not uncommon for the BS to be in as much of a "fog" as the WS and you surely are deeply in a "fog". Permit me to address a few things you have said.


OM's word means about as much as your W's word. I have no idea why you would believe her right now. She has lied to you in the past and she is lying to you know if only by omission. She is NOT protecting you, she is just hoping to delay this enough so that she doesn't have to pay too big a price for her behavior. It has been bad in the past and it is bad right NOW. You are a fool if you believe she will change because "you ask her". She knows you won't leave her, and that my friend is YOUR failing.

The affair is still going on, and it will be replaced by another in her new work place. Why? Because there have been no consequences that she can see. You being hurt is of no concern to her, and she has demonstrated this time and time again. If contact continues, then you need to go to plan B...NOW.


From what I have heard from you this marriage has only been 'strong' when YOU do what she says and YOU allow her to do what she wants. This has not been and is NOT a strong marriage. Why? Because she lies to you, she seeks other men to meet her needs...NOT YOU.

I also don't know why it is hard to admit you don't trust her. HELLO! she is and has been a liar, and has PROVEN she is not trustworthy. You are a very very foolish man if you believe this woman right now.


No, she really believes that it is not in her best interests to tell you. She KNOWS she is not protecting you from the hurt because she claims she will tell you, and thus you will be hurt. Nothing is changing is it? Nothing is going to change is it? So she is NOT protecting you. You are just falling for her "fog" logic, which means you are in a "fog" of your own.


I don't see any evidence that she should be trusted, but I will say that I trust that she wants the status quo, where she can play around with other men, have them meet her needs and then come home and have you take care of her when she needs it. Trust that she wants things HER WAY. Also trust that she does NOT care how you feel or if you are hurt. She has said this to you multiple times. It is time you grew a backbone PeterM.


Why is it hard to believe these things? She is still in her EA. She still has contact with him regularly and whenever she wants. Nothing has changed so why would you be surprised that 5 months later nothing has changed?

PeterM, it really is time you discussed plan B and start to realize that you don't have a marriage as long as she thinks and feels as she does. You have no reason to believe she "loves" you, because love is a verb and it does NOT include actions that knowingly hurt the person you claim to love.

You need to speak up, and demand the information. You need to talk to OM's W and make sure she does know what has and is continuing to happen...contact between the two. You need to start to consider that this woman is NOT the woman you want to marry. You see you are confusing the woman you married with the woman you are NOW married to. That is a bad mistake on your part.

There is an old saying that goes something like this Men marry expecting that their W's will never change. Women marry expecting to change their H. You have fallen into the trap of thinking the woman you married is the woman you are married to.

You need to speak up, start making plans to go to plan B, and realize that she is NOT a "kind, giving" woman. She is a selfish, lying, cheating woman, who sees to her happiness at the cost of the one she supposedly loves. You need to point this out. She is not kind to other people because she is kind, it is because she NEEDS something from them and she will get it at all costs, including your marriage.

Think about this, talk with her about this, give her Joesph's letter.

God Bless,

JL

OK, then I'll use f**ck.

Because that describes what's really gonna happen if you don't get your head outta your butt.

You're gonna be f**cked.

Along with your wife.

Get a grip, buddy. This is war and you don't yet understand that.

Contact the OM's wife TONIGHT and take control of this.

Do not believe ONE WORD about what's going on unless you see it with your own eyes or hear it from somebody other than your wife and this man-child.

WAT

I just read your thread.

I have been a part of this site since my WS had his d day on 4/1/06. No April fools here.

If you have read SAA and HNHN them Not just friends is the next book you should seek out.

I plan A'd my as* off for 2 months before his texting and phone calls started to taper off.
My WS has had NC for A month tomorrow.

Something doesn't read right in your thread.
You appear to focuse on HER actions and HER needs.

What steps are you taking to better yourself?

What are you doing to show her that you are the better choice, that you are better than the OM and any OM she may meet in the new job.

I know I am not as much of an expert as most here but I have learned a lot and been able to put a good plan into action.

I haven't had to go to Plan B and I may not have to.

Focus on being the best you that you can be and she may realize why she fell in love with you in the first place.

Anyway, that is what is working for me.

Hang in there! Sorry you are here but I know it was the best thing I have ever done for ME!!

Blindsided 06