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#1724507 08/05/06 01:59 PM
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To All the Wonderful People in MB Land...

My WS quite desperate for a legal separation and I AM inclined to give it to him.
(Just snuck in last night from OW's home...around the corner.)

HERE IS MY SITUATION: Divorce settlement
[color:"purple"]...about the HOUSE:[/color]
BACKGROUND:
reasons to stay......
-Moving is traumatic!!!
-sooo much time and energy has been spent my me here!!
-since I dated WS we talked about one day we would live here
-His grandparets home, they loved me
-put in new landscaping in front
-I have made drapes, painted, made HUNDREDS of little decisions of what goes where and how to decorate.
-It has an Art Studio above garage, could be rental
-I've made this MY HOME for MY FAMILY and MY BOYS
-MY boys LOVE the house...have lots of friends over..(we have the room)
-We are very close to the center of village
-we just got new furnance, central air, sewer, driveway, all new appliances
-right next to tennis courts
-Gorgeous old trees
-House is one of the top 5 nicest homes in village...
-1830, brick, beautiful, 3,000 feet...
-Incridible charm
-WS put the title in both our names
-I've been the SAHM for 13 years
-We have 3 dogs, the boys love
-1.7 acres
-it sits up on a slight hill

reasons to go.....
-taxes!!!!
-possible maintenance costs...but really what could be left?
-caretaking
-cleaning
-yardkeeping 1.7acre
-It was his grandparents house
- [color:"red"] House is owned by him and me...but was given by his grandmother upon her death to him however with the stipulation that he could put it in his wife's name as well...that is in will...and he did change the deed so it was in both of our names. Upon my WS's father's death the assessed value minus the capital improvements are to be divided equally by the grandchildren (5) and payed. My present Father in Law is probably 68 and in fairly good health...for whatever that is worth.[/color]
-possible litigation...doubtful though...he really doesn't WANT to...about house

considerations to staying until boys graduate from HS or college....
-I'll feel luke warm about investing my time and energy into a home that will become my XWS and OW's
-I'll leave memories behind
-I build no equity
-it's already moved in with everything the way I like and the boys consider it home
-chances are good I couldn't swing having another home like this in the village


YOUR THOUGHTS PLEASE:
I want to have/own it outright...

I want to move out and get a new place (less than enthusiastic)...this house would cost perhaps $500,000 to replace and build...he is offering me $85,000 with no spousal support once I get a job...I'll be employable soon but I want to go on for more school (two years)

I want to stay until kids graduate from HS or College...then leave...this would be difficult to do...home isn't really mine...it would go to him
Stay and fight for ownership
single choice
Votes accepted starting: 08/05/06 01:58 PM
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll.
Take a $ settlement and buy new
single choice
Votes accepted starting: 08/05/06 01:58 PM
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll.
Stay until kids graduate then WS and OW will move in
single choice
Votes accepted starting: 08/05/06 01:58 PM
You must vote before you can view the results of this poll.

Last edited by LWP36; 08/27/06 03:25 PM.
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Here's my $0.02...and a couple questions...

Are you open to reconciliation with your WH? I mean if he moves out with OW and eventually comes to his senses, would you take him back? There are some folks on this board who have done that, just wanted to know what your take was. Your sig says soon to D though so maybe not.

Anyway...I say you and the kids stay in the house at minimum until they finish high school. Moving is traumatic for kids - they are moving away from friends, family, memories - and changing schools is especially bad.

If WH wants an LSA that badly, then give it to him and stipulate enough maintenance to support you and the kids.

Don't turn the house over to WH and OW after the kids graduate! That just postpones the pain of moving for 7 years, it doesn't eliminate it.

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HI bit bucket!

Thank you for your $0.02, I always thought I would be open to reconcilation...I suppose I am, not really though, try as I might I don't feel open anymore...I am losing interest FAST!!! I can't believe the metamorphisis(sp) he would have to go through...and right now...he has NO intentions. He is soooo mean to me right now.

I go off on an emotional tangent here...optional...skip over all italics...ha ha....I must admit...I'm tired...just plain tired of him and all this...I feel as though some sunshine is just waiting for me the day he leaves. I believe I've left him in my heart as a romantic interest. I just get a little charge out of hearing that he may be having a fight with OW...I've been in so much pain...and I'm so vunerable to another man being nice to me. Way too vunerable. If a man says something kind and considerate...I'm numb and dumb right now...this psychological warfare sucks. (sorry) boy do I digress..just a response here makes me excited.

Anyway...my spouse WOULD get the house back if I moved out...painful but true...I would have to own it outright...

What is an LSA?

I believe I would stay in same village for the kids sake...though not positive, I'm quite sure...

Thank you
Strongest

Last edited by Strongest; 08/05/06 03:00 PM.
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I figured it out LSA...legal separation agreement...duh!?!

Sometimes I do feel a bit like the "babe in the woods" my WS says I that I am. It's not so bad. ...babes can be loved...and I'm willing to learn and do. It is a little scarry...but I can do it. I'll walk out of the woods a full grown woman and I'll know how to be better next time around should I be granted such an opportunity.

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Legal Separation Agreement = LSA

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Strongest,
I wanted to give you some other food for thought, from my own experience with our marital home, because when I had to make the decision, I was in a quandary just like you. Part of the problem is that we are attaching a LOT of emotional value to a house. (I sure did!) And I think answering through a poll might make your decision more difficult.

It's been said that one shouldn't make big decisions (like moving) while in the throes of major life changes (like separation or divorce). I would definitely agree with this. I stayed in our home during 3+ years of separation for EVERY SINGLE ONE of those "reasons to stay" you named --planning landscapes, location, value, kids' memories, etc...and I'm glad I did. As part of our divorce settlement, I got H's half of the equity in the home, and I refinanced my share in my own name. There are many different ways to handle this, and at this point, your situation is very unique with the will stipulation. But how do you know that H and OW will move in the house after you leave? It seems like either he buys your share or you buy his share, or you both agree to sell it to pay off the grandkids per the will.

You also need to keep in mind that the value now and the value later (when FIL dies, or your kids graduate) will change. So some questions:
How far into the actual divorce settlement process are you? Is your H giving you any financial help now? (Sorry, I don't know your story.) How far off do you expect your divorce to be (time line)? I realize these are difficult questions, but thinking this way may help you with the answer to your original question, or may add another line in the "reasons to stay" or "reasons to move" categories.

And lastly, as the poster above mentioned, what has been done to work on MB principles - have you done Plan A & B, etc.? Is it possible you're putting the cart before the horse?

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My H and OW want to be here...I'm oh so sure...it was his grandparents home and she loves it...it is a gem w/in this small community.

Yeah...I am attaching A LOT of emotional value to the house...sorry to ask...but is that REALLY a problem?? Emotions are part of us...part of our equation...I've spent SOOOO much time and energy here!!!!

I've done plan A for 1.5 years. He wants out BAD!!! He is NASTY to live with!!! OW lives around the corner and can hardly wait for him to be FREE. He wants my rings off so bad!

I have NOOOOOO, absolutely NOOOOOO, idea how long a divorce will take...my WS would like a settlement NOW...I'm feeling a little overwhelmed with all the changes at once...like he is going to move out...Like what are my children going to do, feel, be...I want to be strong...I'm going to try to go to school...he doesn't want me to...we could use money to afford this home...I could get a job soon...if we do the legal separtion then one year later divorce...but we need a LSA...gosh...it seems so hard, like just too much change at once...he is trying to give me deadlines to force me to make up my mind quickly...as if...what...is he going to litigate?...stay married...? ha ha ha...oh...ho ho ho...oh...hee hee hee. I kill myself.

I think we're through...though my counselor thinks there is hope here...I'm tired. I wish he would just GET OUT.

Strongest

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PROPERTY AND DEBT DIVISION IN A NEW YORK DIVORCE

How many years have you been on the deed?

Based on the above information, it sounds like your WH's settlement offer is not unreasonable...it's a good starting point. I vote demand higher to encompass 2 more years of schooling. Up to you if you want to stay in the house longer for the boys, it is legally possible a judge will allow it...but why? Do you really want to deal with the stress of being in the same community where your WH is so firmly established?

On the other hand, I doubt your WH and OW will remain a couple for very long, a few years AT the most. If you think your nerves are steeled well enough to wait it out, and you WANT to consider reconciliation, go for it. If you're not willing to reconcile, seems like it would be better to move away from the area to start fresh without the constant reminders of his cr*pola. Of course, having children together, the cr*pola never completely stops....sigh.

Only other thought I have...just wanted to caution you...the court is oblivious to whether you wind up getting a house of equal value like that one. That's up to you to do from your own means, if it's really that important to you. You might be thrilled to find a cozy smaller home that you can make your own, without the shadows of WH ever present.


Consider how hard it is to change yourself and you'll understand what little chance you have in trying to change others.
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I think you are being very materialistic here If you have read anything on marriage builders you should know that if you make an effort at your marriage it CAN Work.

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First of all TY for the tea.

The longer you stay the easier it will be emotionally. We get used to it. It is a human thing. The longer you stay in that house the more pressure is on the A.

You say you would reconcile if he made huge changes - well if that is something anywhere on your horizon, then stay and be a thorn in the side of the A. When it dies the fog will clear and he will have a chance to see clearly. Maybe you won't want him, but you will have helped stop the A and bought yourself and the boys valuable time in a home you all love. You didn't create this sitch - WH did.

My instinct would be to tell him you will not move, you want the house for the boys and the only faithful parent as long as possible. I know only too well how hard it is when they are mean - but with support from unknown friends and self love, you can cope, and he will run out of steam. OW will get tired of hearing about it and frustrated - lots of lovely stress for their A.

Just what they need.

Linda


Me BSx2 63

1st M 13yrs WS Multiple As.

DD45 DD43 DS41 first marriage.

Him WS 56 P/A. PA + Multiple EAs from day one.

Current M. 26years

D Days 10/02, 11/02, 01/03, right up to 03/06

NC since 03/2006

Me Stage IV Breast Cancer since 36months,

Let us run with endurance the race that is set before us (Hebrews 12:1).Titus wife, Linda
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Dear Joanne 1,

I will tell you that I've tried to work at my plan A for quite a long time (1.5 years like a crazed woman.)

Presently my WS is gone a lot of the time...when he does see me he is angry and full of venom. He undermines me in front of the children constantly...no matter what I do...my only option lately has been to walk out the door and leave for a while.

The things he says to me right now when I see him are absolutely UNBELIEVABLE...
-you're a terrible mother
-you're inconsistant
-you're up and down
-you haven't earned my last name
-we (OW&WS) lied to you...we were in an A
-I LOVE OW
-IT'S OVER! IT'S OVER!
-You're stupid
-You're crazy
-You're messy and not clean enough
-You don't make enough dinners
-You don't keep up on the laundry well enough
-You're clueless
-Did you make sure he took a toothbrush
-Did he know where you were

It is a non-stop barrage of abuse...

I thought I was getting somewhere a few weeks ago with his ability to speak to me in a pleasant manner...but right now he has turned up the negative flak and pressure so bad...I say, stop! and he chuckles and says no!

He wants out so bad and at this point I'm willing to let it happen...this is so incredibly difficult. I need a constant escape or a concrete plan to get through this period of time...I've never been so tired of the battle...I'm wondering now...why? Why? Why continue to expose myself to so much abuse? Just walking away? AHH!...I can't care for my kids and home if I'm constantly walking away from his abusive behavior.

When it comes to separating...I deserve 50%...this is so difficult...call me materialistic, sure...material maybe all I can have now to walk away with to help sustain me and my children in the future...but what 50%...this isn't easy for me...nor would it be for anyone. I'm flying a bit solo here...with your attitude you have a great start at being able to save your marraige...I thought many a times I would save this marraige...now he seems determined to beat me pschologically until I cave. Nothing like trying to think straight when your obviously a little crooked...that's why I called on others here to help me.

Good luck with you marraige.
Strongest

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[quote]First of all TY for the tea.

It was my pleasure

The longer you stay the easier it will be emotionally. We get used to it. It is a human thing. The longer you stay in that house the more pressure is on the A. It doesn't seem very easy right now! I need some kind of rejuvenation (sp) I need some kind of diversion...it's so intense



You say you would reconcile if he made huge changes - well if that is something anywhere on your horizon, then stay and be a thorn in the side of the A. When it dies the fog will clear and he will have a chance to see clearly. Maybe you won't want him, but you will have helped stop the A and bought yourself and the boys valuable time in a home you all love. You didn't create this sitch - WH did.

I just wonder about my quality of life...what is my purpose in staying here...I guess I've kinda lost that...the changes he would have to undergo seem like they're beyond him...pride, ya know?

My instinct would be to tell him you will not move, you want the house for the boys and the only faithful parent as long as possible. I know only too well how hard it is when they are mean - but with support from unknown friends and self love, you can cope, and he will run out of steam. OW will get tired of hearing about it and frustrated - lots of lovely stress for their A.

What do you mean support from unknown friends...like you?....self love....you're probably right there...I'm better at giving advice then living it sometimes <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Just what they need.

Stress for them?...nice idea...I'm not into punishment much however I wouldn't mind one of them having SOME remorse or empathy

[quote]

Thanks Linda...I hope you're doing well!! You're giving me good advice I believe...sometimes easier said then done...thanks a lot. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Strongest

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Quote
[color:"blue"] Joanne1 [/color] said: I think you are being very materialistic here If you have read anything on marriage builders you should know that if you make an effort at your marriage it CAN Work.


[color:"blue"] Joanne, [/color] You are doing many, many people here a disservice in making a broad statement like that. There are numerous people here who tried to save their marriage using MB principles, some for years (myself included), without success. It takes two people to work on a marriage, and often the WS is unwilling to change their errant behavior. Sometimes the WS leaves and can't even be found! However, the MB principles can be taken into other parts of our life and new relationships, should that happen. I think [color:"blue"] Strongest [/color] was very gracious in her reply to you.

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Quote
[quote] I need some kind of rejuvenation (sp) I need some kind of diversion...it's so intense[/i]

So be your own diversion, imagine he is a three year old, naked shouting or saying these things to you. do it right now. Imagine how you wold feel and what you would do. My therapist helped me find a way to do this, I chose to see hm and a cute baby Taz, went to the shop and bought one, kept it, still keep it on the shelf next to my bed. Took a few tries for it to be useful, but the association with practice soon kept me detached from the buttons he pushed. I would respond with " Oh I can see you are angry. Would you like a cup of tea?" or "Gosh you are wound up today, good to get it off your chest isn't it." and so I never took in the insults or information, didn't even consider them, just responded to the emotion he was displaying.

Quote
I just wonder about my quality of life...what is my purpose in staying here...I guess I've kinda lost that...the changes he would have to undergo seem like they're beyond him...pride, ya know?

Well when they come out if the fog the pride isn't usually an issue, trying to save what they realise they have lost, hopefully, overcomes that eventually. So don't worry about then, just work on now.

Quote
What do you mean support from unknown friends...like you?....self love....you're probably right there...I'm better at giving advice then living it sometimes <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
Yes like me if you would accept the offer, and as for the advice - we obviously have just seen me in your sitch and you in mine. I understand. We cannot always be our own mentor. I work on that principal, but sometimes the world, or Dr. Bill, just blasts you away. Then our mirror mentors step in. Like you and others did for me.

Quote
Stress for them?...nice idea...I'm not into punishment much however I wouldn't mind one of them having SOME remorse or empathy

It is not vengeance it is destroying the alien beast that is attacking your boys family. Get it?

Linda

PS if I do not respond, you may email me to prompt me, I am not sure how I am or will be and sometimes it is too painful to think of coming to the board.


Me BSx2 63

1st M 13yrs WS Multiple As.

DD45 DD43 DS41 first marriage.

Him WS 56 P/A. PA + Multiple EAs from day one.

Current M. 26years

D Days 10/02, 11/02, 01/03, right up to 03/06

NC since 03/2006

Me Stage IV Breast Cancer since 36months,

Let us run with endurance the race that is set before us (Hebrews 12:1).Titus wife, Linda
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Personally, I would stay in the house until your children are on their own. Then, you probably won't want a big house and yard, and you can find something smaller.

The affair will likely end, and your WH will want to come back.

Or you might meet someone after you divorce.

Keep your options open.

Since hubby is in such a hurry, I would bump up the cost of him getting out quickly.

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As an estate planning attorney I am wondering how your WH's Father's will can leave anything to his grandchildren since he no longer owns the house.

Do you and WH own 1/2 and WH's father the other 1/2?

If so, WH's Father can only bestow his 1/2 by will/trust.

How is it titled...jt tenants, tenants in common, or joint tenants with full rights of survivorship (or some other way depending on the state)?

Assuming WH's Father still has an interest in the house, since he is still alive, he can amend his will at any time changing the beneficiaries however he wants.

Is it in a trust? Who's trust...deceased Grandmother (which is now irrevocable) or living Grandfather's revocable or irrevocable trust...or both???

I don't hang out on Divorce forum often at all (actually EVER)...thus you want to email me any legal question you may have regarding this situation. It is my expertise. My wife and I share the email below so no need to hesitate. Otherwise, I'll try to remember to peak back in here in a day or two.

Good luck,

Mr. Wondering


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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Mr. Wondering, you are wonderful - what a godsend for Strongest.

Linda


Me BSx2 63

1st M 13yrs WS Multiple As.

DD45 DD43 DS41 first marriage.

Him WS 56 P/A. PA + Multiple EAs from day one.

Current M. 26years

D Days 10/02, 11/02, 01/03, right up to 03/06

NC since 03/2006

Me Stage IV Breast Cancer since 36months,

Let us run with endurance the race that is set before us (Hebrews 12:1).Titus wife, Linda
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You're right Silverpool!!!!!!!

I've sent off a detailed msg to Mr. Wonderings...how lucky for me that he wonder/wandered here!!:)

Strongest

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Thank you for your support Silverpool, avondale 25, believer, Lucks, Mr. Wondering, Cinderella, and Joanne 1,

All of you are giving me "food for thought!" OK. So here is my fickle mind/heart or better yet....how about my ever growing mind/heart...I don't really care so much anymore about the house. I don't know what happened exactly...only I just let it go...like my WS...I'm over it already (Gee, I got over the house a lot faster then I did the WS)...the house that is. I wouldn't mind being in it...I wouldn't mind not being in it...as a matter of fact THERE is a lot of reasons to NOT be in it. Anyway...now I don't feel emotionally invested in it...If I move out eventually the boys and I could have a grand old time picking out a new "HOME."

Thanks for all your input...I don't really want court, judges and anger...I just want to move on with a fresh start...I want resolution...whatever house I'm in.

Mr. Wondering...I still believe if you are interested in explaining the house situation to me it would still be of interest... the terms will most likely play some role in deciding what sum of $ I could have for it.

I saw a lawyer yesterday who told me to get an appraisel and to go no further in mediation unless he treats me with respect and dignity...for without it there is not good will or good faith and mediation can not exist. I told him. I said respect, dignity, mediation or litigation...your choice...and try me...if you don't believe it. He is better. I'm feeling better. How nice...I have to threaten litigation to get him to treat me with respect and dignity...but as my lawyer said...and mean it. I'm done asking, emailing, requesting, and explaining why he should just show me respect. Now he does or we will litigate. I'm NOT taking anymore.

I'm even going to look into what it takes to get a restraining order...just in case he doesn't quit and decides he is going to turn it up a notch. I think he will test me. I want to be ready for action.

My discussion with my attorney was excellent. She has given me several things to attend to...and I feel, know I'm on sound footing now...she isn't a lawyer shark...and she isn't after my WS throat...but she wants all the information she needs so I can speak and cut a deal with my WS (attorney) in mediation. YEAH!!! Major breakthrough for me. She is also a woman. I'm finding I like that about her and I'm ashamed to admit that I'm a sexist and doubted wether or not men would take her seriously...I've decided thats not my or her problem...that will be that man's problem. I'm ashamed of my poor self image of women and I'm finding a new way to believe in women and myself, I like it...I hope I can find a man who likes me like this some day.

Strongest

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MrWondering is, well, WONDERFUL. He gave some advice about having your own business to someone else on the board, and I copied it and found it extremely helpful in starting my own business.

Hope you will get more information from him.

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