Hey Strongest and any out there in similar predicament, I thought this might help. This is my reply to Strongest: Hopefully, it has some value.

I agree w/silverpool. Here's my take:

If you leave the house, you are essentially handing everything to your WH and OW what they want on a silver platter. Your home regardless whether or not your FIL owns it, it is still your home, your sanctuary with your kids.

If you live in a community property, no fault state, you are entitled to half of everything! And I mean EVERYTHING! Yes, including debts acquired during your marriage. There are exceptions to this rule.

Your WH has more to lose. You can go after his pension/retirement, savings, AND spousal suuport for half the term of your marriage. And since you aren't working yet, your spousal support could be adjusted higher based on the "lifestyle for which you have become accustomed to". Additionally, you can also get your WH to pay for court costs. Your attorney can request for that. This may sound vindictive, but hey, no more vindictive that what your WH and the OW have done or trying to get you to do!

THe best thing you can do while you are negotiating a settlement is leave the emotions out of it. I know it's hard. But, you have to play smart. Don't give your WH any clue to what your next move is. Consider it like a poker game. Would you show him your hand if you expect to win?

Good luck...remember...KEEP the emotions out when you are negotiating and DON'T give him a peek of your next move!

Post Extras:

Stargazelily
Member


Reged: 03/01/06
Posts: 188
Re: Lawyer suggested respect and dignity for mediation in "good faith" or litigate...my WS says "I have none for you...bring it on!!!" [Re: Strongest]
#3079236 - 08/12/06 01:53 AM Edit Reply Quote Quick Reply



Here's another tidbit of useful legal points to your advantage:

1. You have been married to you WS for 15 years. Great news! After 10 years of M, you are and can be entitled to spousal support (SS) indefinitely. And I mean INDEFINITELY. Check with your attorney. The spousal support usually will end when you remarry.

2. If your WH marries the OW, you can go back to court and have your SS modified AND INCREASED because the the amount will be based on their COMBINED income. Yes, that means the OW's income as well! Isn't this sweet?

3. If you live in a fault state where infidelity is frowned upon, consider yourself hitting a jackpot! The world (your WH and OW) could be your oysters.

4. If you WH has been making the mortgage payments and ALL household expense, be sure that your attorney requests that everything remain the same. This does not include the spousal support. The $80,000 that your WH is proposing to pay you outright is peanuts. DON'T SETTLE! He does NOT want you to go after a long-term (indefinite) SS. He's no dummy. The $80,000 is two years worth of income for most. Not only that there are tax consequences. You have to pay taxes unless you can get in in the form as a "gift". With a SS, over your lifetime, the SS will exceed $80,000. Make sure you ask for more on the SS to cover the taxes you will owe. The beauty of this that your WH and the OW will be reminded of their misdeeds every month whenever they have to write you a check. Hello!

5. If you were a stay at home mom during your marriage while your WH worked, the court will look at that in your favor and place a dollar value. The value is increased if you quit your job while your WH went to school, advanced his career in order to care for the children and home. So don't rush out the door to look for a job just yet. Wait until you get what YOU want and DESERVE, and the papers are signed. Don't even mention to you WH you will look for a job.

6. Child support is separate from spousal support. If you have custody of the kids, the court will calculate the amount based on his income and eventually their income if they marry prior to the kids reaching a certain age allowable by law for such support in your state.

One more thing, START collecting financial records. If you filed joint last year, get a copy of his W-2. Copy his most recent paystub, statements on his 401K, stocks, retirement, savings, life insurance and anything that has monetary value. His pay stub will show itemized deductions including any direct deposits to bank accounts he hasn't told you. Your attorney can get these items for you but it will also cost you. So start preparing for battle, girlfriend! Who knows, the OW might just walk away especially once she realizes she will also be impacted financially. If I were her, I would. He's not worth the battle.

So, stay calm, be SMART, and get your ducks in a row. If your attorney is not giving you these scenario/info, look for another one. Talk to friends and get referrals.

Good luck.
Stargazelily

Star,

Do you know if this is applicable in all states? I was told that even though WH is living with OW now, they cannot include her income in CS or SS or in figuring out how much he can pay re: household bills.

Would they need to marry to have that included then?

I was told that I could get 1/2 SS for the years we were married. (22 years married). I am a SAHM.

Also was told that WH couldn't continue to pay our mortgage, bills etc, and then have me expect him to pay SS and CS too. It's one or the other. He can't afford both.

It varies depending if you live in a no-fault state like California or a fault state. The difference is that in a "NO FAULT" state your WS could have mutiple affairs, but it's inadmissable in court. In a "fault" state, adultery is and can be used as a bargaining chip against the WS.


That is correct. They have to be legally married. BUT, if you live in a state where "common law" is recognized and your WS and OP have lived as such (ie. her assuming his last name, etc) within a specified number of years as required by your state, you can try to go after her income. But you have to prove they have consummated that "common law", and if there is a statute of limitations for when you can file for mondified CS/SS.

The child support is separate from the spousal support because the SS is taxed againts the spouse receiving it. THe spouse paying the child support receives the tax credit. There are other variables when a SS is considered. They are:
1) length of the marriage. TEN years plus is considered long-term marriage. In most states, you can be awarded SS or alimony indefinitely until you remarry.
2) what did you do during the marriage: did you give up your career to care for the family?
3) health of the spouse requesting support: in/ability to gain employment, etc. If you married less than 10 years, the court may award you longer than the 1/2 rule if you have a medical, health issues.



That is correct. BUT, there are other considerations that can be taken into account as described above. You couod get your attorney to increase the CS. Were you working during your M? If your mortgage and household expense was ALL taken care of by your WH and the amount is higher than what you can receive via SS, request that he continue make those payments if he can affor in ADDITION to CS. No matter what, he cannot avoid CS.

Good Lord, catgirl! You should be entitled to a LIFETIME ALIMONY!!!! (until you remarry of course) Go for it! Hopefully your state allows it!

Remember when Tom Cruise divorced Nicole Kidman days short of their 10 year anniversay? Because he didn't want to pay alimony!!!

Check out www.divorcenet.com in your state.

Good luck!

I haven't been on for awhile...altho have been here since 2001. My husband and I were married for 22 years. We were together for 26. We have four kids. We had a military marriage...a very successful one by the way. I worked for him and supported him throughout our entire marriage. During this time we often moved every two years...I lost my teaching certificates, we paid for his Master's at the expense of me losing 17 hours towards mine. The court didn't care about any of that. They didn't care that I worked full time for him after we moved here to MO and started up the new B2 squadron. They didn't care...it meant nothing.

Anyway...after retiring in 2000,,he ran off with a Northwest flight attendant...the final...or at least so far...in a series of affairs that he had over the years. It was heartbreaking.

When he retired and starting flying for NW, I went back to teaching, part time and going to school. I had two lawyers during the ordeal of our divorce...both told me that there was no way I would get any alimony from my ex. They said that because I had a teaching degree, I didn't qualify for alimony...they said it was rarely awarded any longer in the state of MO. My income went from making about $120,000 while we were married---which was about what he made as a B2 pilot---to $32,000 plus child support. I do get half of his retirement....which barely allows us to make our house payment. Anyway, just thought I would add two cents to this conversation.

When I run into B2 families that we helped put through the school house, they all say "Well, I bet you took him to the cleaners...I sure would have". There was no cleaners...and there was no justice....not one person in the court system stood up for me and my family. It has been a struggle with 2 kids in college and raising my two other kids. A huge reality check.

I did try to get alimony. I did try to get my Master's paid for. I did ask for him to pay my lawyer's fees, which were huge...no deal. This is for the divorce he wanted. My ex even got his child support reduced in Dec--$600 because according to the judge "well...we all know the airlines have been hurting"....he was laid off, but he also has a Masters in Business that I paid for....he didn't bother to try and find work. He is now working at Embry University in Florida...must be doing well...because she has quit work to work around the house....according to my two youngest.

He said in Dec..."Oh woe is me, I can't afford anything....I need to have my child support lowered." I asked him to pick up the older kids car insurance because he lowered my support so much...absolutely not...he just didn't have the money for that. He couldn't pay my daughter's tuition either...no money. THEN he turned around in January and bout a three bedroom house two blocks from the beach in Ormand, Florida for over $280,000...and has remodeled it with new cabinates, bathrooms, new bedroom set and such. It also has a pool and a jacuzzi.

I was also told that her income will never be considered when making decisions about child support...EVER!! They couldn't even enter that in court. So...just thought I would throw out my experience with the wonderful judicial system.

Maybe it just depends on the judge you get, the lawyers you have and what you look like. My ex is a very handsome guy...and he seemed to get away with everything.

Movinoninmo is absolutely right. I was married for almost 21 years. My lawyer told me it was almost impossible to get alimony when you also get child support, unless the NCP is very wealthy. When he left, I had been a SAHM for several years. Even though he pays no mortgage or rent, the court has refused to enforce the part of the separation agreement which requires him to share in paying for college. I ended up having to put myself through grad school, while raising six kids - I have put 2 through college, currently have two more in college, and two more at home.

My experience is there can be a great difference between the legal code and how it's actually played out whether in negotiations or in the courtroom. I live in a fault state, married 15 years as a SAHM, with all the legal rights to pension, support, child support, etc. I'd be interested to hear other's experiences but I think how much money and property is at stake is one of the determining factors - that is, the bigger the pot, the fairer the settlement simply because of legal fees. Not many attorneys will fight aggressively or go to court without large retainers and there is no guarantee of recovering legal fees even if requested from other party. My STBX is self-employed and writing off everything from his toilet paper on down. He left in the middle of an open affair. Attorney says regrettably the judge isn't interested in the sordid details but just wants to get it settled. Because my STBX dissipated marital funds and understates his income, the pot is very small and I've been advised to settle for whatever I can get, In the meantime, he and OW take European holidays while I struggle to pay our rent. It's not fair but it's reality.

If your jurisdiction allows this, Stargazer, you are lucky.

My husband's ex tried this -- despite that she was the one who divorced him years ago and had a boyfriend living with her. She learned my income can't be included in calculations of child and spousal support.

She's now cohabiting with another boyfriend -- her spousal support will end soon. Their divorce was written so that her alimony would stop if she remarried, so she decided to have her boyfriend move in. We decided to take the high road -- according to our lawyer, we could have had spousal support discontinued at any time once she established a common law marriage with the boyfriend.

So one thing we need to also be careful of, on more than an emotional/psychological level, is cohabiting if we are receiving maintenance.

I do agree that Strongest should maintain residence in the house. If her husband wants to divorce, let him live elsewhere. If they have children, no judge is going to make her move.

What seems to be the common denominator with what have been posted so far is that the outcome is determined not only by each state and local jurisdiction, BUT as I found out since having retained a lawyer is WHICH court your divorce is filed and your lawyer's expertise. This is the part where "you get what you pay for" so to speak.

One court may have judges who are ultra conservative and frown upon spousal support, while another court, the judges favor support.

I've been fortunate to have found my attorney who was referred to me by my girlfriend's attorney. Both attorneys are opposing counsels in a case. I've talked to six attorneys and thought settled with one. But once I talked to my attorney over the phone, we established a rapport right away and went with my gut feelings to hire her. The other attorneys I interviewed charged $250-300/hour with $2500-3000 retainer fee. My attorney costs me $400/hr with a minimum $5000 retainer fee.

BUT, the BIG GUY upstairs has been looking out for me because since I was referred by her opposing counsel (friend of hers and my girlfriend's divorce attorney) she waived the fee and wrote up a contract that I'd pay as I go. Then when I reserched her name online, she was part of a major divorce litigation involving a well know hi-tech firm. When I told another friend who my attorney was, he asked where her office was. When I told him, he immediately said "Wow, where did you find her?" Told him and he said, "She's in the high rent district area where they represent exclusive clients with money." I don't have money, but how I got her has been a blessing.

Also, a co-worker's husband's ex-wife succeeded in court to get CS increased based on my co-worker's income. She lives in TN So it comes back to having a good lawyer who knows the system and the judges.

If you live in a county where there is more than one courthouse, you don't have to file in the courthouse of the city you live in. Just as long as it's within the same county. My stbx WH file in another city. My attorney is very familiar with the judges in that courthouse H filed versus the judges in the courthouse closer to home and how they rule in divorce matters. As it turns out, my stbx WH's lawyer's unfamiliarity with the judges of the courthouse in the city he filed may end with me being on top. And we live in no fault California.

So, it comes down to finding THE lawyer who is familiar and knowledgeable of judges who preside over divorce cases in each courthouse within your county. She was the only one among the six attorneys I talked to who told me how each judge usually rules and how each particular courthouse lean towards spousal support. It also really helps that she served as Deputy District Attorney with trial experiences.