Observing ... your writing is so good - you have me on the edge of my seat. I know this is your life, though and not "Mystery Theater," so I don't want you to think I'm insensitive to that.

I'm a little confused about the email and photo. With the email programs I've used, you can't delete an attachment or embedded photo on a received email - you just have to delete the whole email. If that's true for your H's email program, then I guess perhaps the photo was stripped off before it got to his inbox - but then why would the keylogger even register that it was there? Maybe your husband has an email program that allows deletion of attachments - for all I know, that's a feature that's common nowadays. I'm guessing he did delete it, from the evidence given. Did you check the Recycle Bin?

It is looking a lot like he has something to hide regarding this woman ... but was the text of her email not suspicious at all?

Good luck...although you seem to already have that in spades. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Observing:

Hello Again.

I would urge you to relax a little on the snooping. Once a week or so. Keep it discreet. You will find out if he is having an A. He is improving in his actions towards you, however. And remember what I said before, if he is in an A now, you will find out and need to break it up. If he was in an A, and it has been a while, then you can explore the ramifications of this new knowledge with your changed husband.

BE ready for the worst, but be hopeful for the best.

LG

Fiatflux,

Thank you for your kind words. You gave me a good laugh at about the time I needed one!

And I sure appreciate your help in brainstorming this "mystery". Obviously, I'm going to need MORE than my own brain to figure my husband out.

Well, it wasn't until I got back home that I remembered I could have looked in his recycle bin for that image! At the time, I was too stressed out to think normally and I had to hurry and place a Christmas order on his computer to keep my word.

I checked my keylogger reports to find that the software collects information when he runs "spell check" and "save as". I now realize I need to change the keylogger settings AGAIN so that the hidden character (Delete) reports as well.

I should be able to do this the next time we do "research" together on his computer. Then I'll know if he deletes an image or not in the future.

Until then, I'm stuck WITHOUT the knowledge of what actually happened!

Lousygolfer,

I hear your wisdom.

You know, I can't go back to his office for "copies" anymore. Once he's suspicious, that technique is OVER.

So I'll have to rely on our "research" times, if and when they happen, as he likes to check things out at his business while I start up his computer.

I'm trying to keep in mind that his behavior toward me is improving so much. I think we are getting along better than we have in years. He is now emailing me about his day's activities too.

Right now, I have to go because he is taking me out for dinner tonight (hopefully he doesn't do too much gawking, because I don't want to be ticked off right now). He's in great spirits lately.

That's one of the reasons he shocked me when he showed up at the office by surprise.

Okay, I'll try to find balance in all this.

I need to talk again.

My husband's gawking consequences, the other night during our romantic dinner out, indirectly made it into our bedroom – where I don’t like it.

You see, he didn't drink water during our meal to help wash down his food and ended up with uncontrollable hiccups immediately after, all the way home (long distance), and then the hiccups reoccurred a few minutes after Sexual Fulfillment began, so we had to start over, and then we finished before the hiccups reoccurred again.

It wasn't the hiccups that were the problem. It's WHY he had the hiccups.

To AVOID the hiccups, all he had to do was PAY MORE ATTENTION to his WIFE at dinner, when she commented that he hadn't touched his water during the meal, rather than trying to HIDE his frequent glancing of the young woman two seats ahead of him in full view!

Sick.

At least in some ways, I feel like I am getting more emotionally tolerable of my husband's "wandering eyes". I am now letting it "roll off my back" to help him feel more relaxed about the issue and to give him time to improve.

So I didn't mention anything.

I feel like I am getting better at COPING with it, even though most of this has come to my attention in the last couple years while our relationship began to IMPROVE, especially sexually (why look when you have it at home).

I keep telling myself that if he doesn't ACT ON IT, I really don't have a problem, right? A "just looking" husband can still be a WONDERFUL, faithful husband, right?

In that case, he could be a BETTER husband than most! Wow. I'm trying to convince myself of this.

In the past, I thought he was just looking at "exposed flesh" (not really his fault). But during the colder season, women are more fully dressed and I'm inadvertently finding that he hasn't made much progress in controlling himself.

He has recently confirmed, through his ACTIONS, that his favorite kind of women to keep an eye on is "young" women.

I've often wondered, how would I be able to tell if he's improving or not, since I am not always there to witness it? But the Lord has provided (realization) an uncomfortable "at home" occurrence that I can base his progress on.

One of his recent actions that SURPRISED me is the "eyeing" of one of our daughters. Thinking back, I now remember this has happened MANY times but I was just oblivious to it. He's become more obvious and now I notice.

Why does he look at one daughter and not the other? One daughter has a very appealing figure. BUT, she never flaunts it.

Instead, she is a modestly dressed virgin who is beautiful inside AND out. She turns a lot of heads at her youthful age. The men who look at her notice that she is not the typical girl and they seem to be interested in a very "respectful" way.

So when my husband looks at her inappropriately, it [color:"red"]BURNS MY SOUL[/color]! I am so DISGUSTED that he "eyes" our own daughter!

SICK.

I am convinced, that however innocent he thinks his "looking" is, he has an ADDICTION of some sort. I hate it and it ruins my respect for him.

But I can't mention this type of occurrence to him yet. Not only could it sour my daughter's relationship with him, but also, I don't want him to know all my SOURCES for evaluating his progress – or REGRESS, for that matter.

I don't like it when he pretends he's so GOOD, when he's not.

So now I'm back to the "honesty" issue.

In some ways, all I want to do is [color:"red"]CATCH HIM[/color]!!!

Then I can have something to base my conduct on.

Observing:

WOW.

He had dinner with you and his Hiccups occurred because instead of drinking water, he looked at another woman.

WRONG.

He got the hiccups because he got the hiccups. I can drink three glasses of water with a meal, just got to have it, my W thinks I drink to much water with a meal, and I still get hiccups occasionally. So that ain't the reason for the hiccups.

But he may have looked at another person during the meal, for how long and in comparision to the attention he showed you the rest of the meal?

IF he stared at her for 5 minutes during the meal and was with you for 2 hours, is that to much?

So I didn't mention anything. Your mistake.

I understand that you are a good looking woman, and you need him to concentrate on YOU! THAT is your emotional need. You want him to appreciate your physical attractivness and admiration. Not these other women. So change your tactics as I described earlier. When you see him looking past you at another women, distract him by returning his attention to you. Say something. Either about the fine china on the table, the weather, your kids, his day, whatever. I have also recommended that you start pointing out the disrespect that he shows you by engaging in a conversation along the lines of "What do you find attactive about the woman over there?" By doing this, you get the attention back on you, and if he learns that is the conversation he is going to have when he is busted in your presence looking at other women, he may continue to look, or stop, or most likely become more discreet. And, no matter what, his behavior starts to move towrds something more to your liking. And do not love-bust him here. Men like to look. They should be discreet, but if you LB him, he will probably get worse. If you lead him to a better place, conversation with you, then both issues are addressed. It may be uncomfortable at first, for both of you, but you certainly do not like his behavior now....

And for this:

He has recently confirmed, through his ACTIONS, that his favorite kind of women to keep an eye on is "young" women.

I don't spend much time looking at "Old women." Nor "Young Women" especially if they ain't good looking. See the point? Some men may be attracted to older women, larger women, well muscled women, thin women, well endowed women, etc. IT takes all types. And women look at men the same way. Buff has got to be better then slovenly.

But, you see it as an comparision to you. By him looking at these other women, he is making an unfavorable comparison to you. If his wandering eyes lingered on a women who was older, larger, and uglier that you, you would be content, right? Or maybe you just might think, "Is that what he really likes?" And then embark on a process to convert yourself into that type of women? I do not think so.

Remember, you are beautiful as you are. You are married, and your Husband still appreciates you. He does appreciate other women, but just like Clint Eastwood casting himself in the role of the photographer in the "Bridges of Madison County" A role he was clearly 25 years to old for. We all want to be desired by the younger and more beautiful It's like High school. We just can't do anything about it.

Now lets address your thoughts about your daughter:

MAYBE YOUR HUSBAND IS PROUD OF YOUR DAUGHTER, AND THE BEAUTIFUL PERSON SHE IS BECOMING, JUST LIKE YOU ARE NOTICING!

YOU Are projecting lustful thoughts unto your H. That is extremely disrespectful.

DO You have any reason to think that he may act inappropriatly with her? Sure you can watch for something that might be, but do not create it if it doesn't exist. Remember, you describe her in glowing terms as well. I would look upon a daughter like that with great satisfaction. And admiration. My son is 14, and my heart bursts with pride with the type of young man he is becoming. Sometimes I can't help my gaze when he is making me proud. Your thoughts are pure. Your husbands thoughts are lustful. That is completly and utterly shocking to me the disrespect you show your husband when you treat the same reactions that you both are having in such a different manner.

And I will finish with your closing line:

Then I can have something to base my conduct on.

This line sums up all the above. IF you can CATCH HIM? Your conduct should be based on his actions, and what you KNOW, not what you project he might do! Start projecting that he is a good person, and doing the things that respect that, and you will see those behaviors, instead of always searching for the negatives...

I know you are here to vent, and to learn. I am not trying to 2x4 to much here. But you have to adjust the lens on this picture. And only you can do that.

Lousygolfer,

Let's look at this through a fair lens.

Being a man who likes appreciation, how would you feel if your wife spent 30% of your once-a-month romantic dinner TALKING to another man about your deficiencies as a husband?

I can imagine how you would feel.

The problem for me is that I have a Passive/Aggressive husband. They can't decide on women. They don't want the attachment.

So what do they (passive/agressive men) want? Or what do you think they want vs what they really need?

L.

Observing:

Why would you let him?

I wouldn't let me spouse do that, yet you did. Sometimes you just have to let them know they are wrong.

In this case, he was.

But that is not how you described the meal. You said he was "looking" at another woman. Not talking to her, nor telling her your deficeincies. (sp?)

So, let us know what is going on so we can address it.

LG

Orchid,

Your question is very timely, and a breath of fresh air for me. Thank you.

Off the top of my head, and being quite candid, here are some answers:

I think he wants to make sure no one takes advantage of him (although I have seen him take advantage of others).

I think he has a strong emotional need for sex but doesn't want to commit his entire self, for fear of being vulnerable to a woman.

I think he likes having a wife for understandable reasons, but keeps her at a distance (not too much intimacy).

As described by a psychologist:


I think he feels safe with me being his wife (kitchen, laundry, bedroom needs), but not necessarily in being his total friend. I don't know that he really trusts ANYONE for that. These are behaviors I believe he has developed from his youth.

I think he wants to "receive", but doesn't necessarily want to "give".

I think he wants to be in control, but in ways that keep his motives hidden.

I think he likes to sit on the sidelines of life, enjoying secret pleasures (which reminds me of voyeurism, although without the direct sexual gratification), but not giving a fair part of himself in the process.

In the last couple years, I've begun to think that there could be another woman involved as well. Then he would be a cakeman. What does a cakeman want?

Lousygolfer,


Yes, and now it's been taken care of (see update below).

By acknowledging that this type of talking was wrong, I hope you're not implying that a wife has no right to hurt her husband by talking, but that a husband has the perfect right to hurt his wife by looking.

In my previous post, I was trying to give you a comparison of what it would be like had the episode occurred in YOUR shoes.

In other words, for a husband, the problem would play itself out by the wife TALKING to make her husband feel bad. For a wife, the problem would play itself out by the husband LOOKING to make his wife feel bad. Either way, one spouse hurts the other according to the other spouse's emotional needs.

You and I know that men and women are different in their needs. So my husband's way of hurting me would be different than your wife's way of hurting you.

But the pain is the same. The hurt feelings are the same.

Observing,
I haven't read this entire thread.

But I do want to say that, smack dab in the middle of my FWH's affair, we spent a lot of quality time together. And he told me he loved me during SF.

So, don't let that fool you.

Also, I used to be quite tolerant of my H if he looked at another woman. Sometimes I would even point them out to him. For his 40th birthday, I even got him a stripper!!

That's when I trusted him implicitly. Now, all that stuff is out the window. I mean, OUT THE WINDOW. I would hope that he wouldn't dare look at someone else now, not after all we've been through.

Things have changed – drastically.

We put the MB marriage course, our plans to add a bathroom onto the house, and the research of job opportunities - all ON HOLD.

Everything, including sex and affection (except for what the children normally see), has come to a SCREECHING HALT and now hinges on whether or not my husband wants to be sincere with me.

How did this happen? I just answered my husband fairly ("I feel...") when he asked about my thoughts last weekend.

I did what a psychologist advised to do when dealing with a Passive/Aggressive husband: straight talk, set limits, drop it and move on.

I felt I could no longer betray my feelings, even though by sharing them, I could be unfairly BLAMED for the indirect cause of infidelity (possible weakness for him) in the future.

So now my husband knows that I feel he has been INSINCERE about his love for me and his want for other women – even after his confession. He knows that I don't feel right having sex with him when I don't feel like he loves me.

He said that he doesn't feel that way and concluded that since we both feel differently (doesn't matter if improvements could be made), we are at a "stalemate".

What's with the stalemate? Is our relationship a tug-of-war? If so, then I'd rather drop the rope. So I guess I did. I just couldn't find it in myself to "pull" anymore.

That's sort of how we ended up with NO SEX. After we agreed to no sex, then we agreed to NO AFFECTION (he insisted) since I don't want him to have to give to me without receiving what he wants in return.

I would think a loving husband would be more concerned about what his wife's needs were than to be REBELLIOUS over something as basic as honesty, especially after he knows it is my most important EN and one that I can't live happily without.

I tried to explain that to restore my trust (which I admitted I had lost) I would like him to be sincere with me about his lustful struggles and how he is trying to overcome them.

But he thinks that by bringing up the subject AT ALL (this is only the second time I brought it up since his confession, and he's counting), I want to "rub it in" or "dwell on the past".

As a response, he said he would be doing some "soul searching". He said he doesn't know how long that will take.

It hasn't even been 5 days since Sexual Fulfillment for us, but he is acting like it's over for life. I don't know how he can earn my trust back if he doesn't want to display any love for me. I guess I have to play out his Passive/Aggressive behavior.

I feel at peace. I have been sincere with him. I have poured out my heart in the last 3.75 months of my version of Plan A, and now is the time for fairness in our relationship.

I NO LONGER worry about whether or not he's being sincere with me or whether or not he is wanting other women more than his own wife – in front of his own wife.

Because of our current relationship status, I feel he is no longer asking intimacy of me without giving it in return. At least our relationship is fair now - even if that means no true intimacy at all.

I have just taken the HUGEST RISK in my marriage: to let him go.

Now I will see his true colors.

Anyone who uses P/A behaviour uses it for two reasons:

1. To do as they please and avoid the consequences.
2. To remain in the role of a victim, because if you are a victim then nothing is your fault and you don't deserve any consequences.

Same reasons as a sneaky ten-year-old child, which is where P/As remain emotionally.

Observing, I probably already pointed out my sig lines to you - just don't have time to check back right now. Did you say you found a therapist who understands P/A behaviour and is willing to deal with it? Remember, P/As will just defeat and sabotage a counselor the same way they defeat and sabotage you.
Mulan

Rltraveled,

Thanks for your support and for sharing your understanding of this behavior!

At this time in my life, I KNOW I am not imagining things. I just don't know how far it has gone.

I want to trust my husband, but he has been wrong in other important ways which leads me to think that I am not seeing the "true him" all the time.

Sometimes I feel like my husband is so sincere, real and true (like I want him to be, or like he wants me to think he is).

Other times, I feel like he has turned a corner and I don't know him at all. It just depends on if there's another attractive woman in the vicinity or not.

Funny, that's when his ears don't seem to work anymore.

Mulan,

It's great to hear from you again!


I bought a book and I have been reading a lot from different therapists.

We have yet to get to the stage of counseling, which may be our only option in the end. He needs to hear things from somebody else, not me.


That's why I had to "drop the rope". I just can't fight anymore. He can do what he wants. He's free.

With all due respect, Observing - that ain't gonna make one ounce of difference to him. The whole world could tell him the same thing and it just wouldn't matter.

The only thing that WILL matter is him finding out first-hand how damaging his behaviour really is and how much he has to lose.

I am reposting this for you from the "In Recovery" thread. The books you have may or may not be helpful. The two links below were enormously helpful to me and I would strongly encourage you to read the entire MB thread as you have time. There is a gold mine of info there from several MB posters who have been dealing with P/A spouses for a long time. They made ALL the difference to me.

*****************************************************
I spent six years on MB and got nowhere until I understood what I was really dealing with. Then things changed almost overnight. The MB principles could not and did not work until the passive/aggressive behavior was addressed, and THEN they could work.

My #1 EN is honesty and openness. He is P/A. How do ya think THAT was working?!

This is what I said to WH once I understood that the real problem in our relationship was the P/A behavior and his belief that I was trying to "control" him:

First, I truly and seriously acknowledged that he really did feel "controlled" when I wanted to use POJA. He would snarl, "That feels like control!" I said, "I know it does. I know that's how it makes you feel. (NO SARCASM! I REALLY MEANT THIS!) And I also know that there is nothing I can say that will change your mind on that. I can only show you how POJA works by trying it on some things. If you want to try it, you can let me know."

Second, I truly and seriously acknowledged that I did NOT want to control him in any way. I wanted a WILLING partner, not a child to control or an animal on a leash. And if he did not want to be a willing partner to me, the last thing I wanted was to keep on pushing to be a partner to me, since I really did NOT want to control him.

Therefore, I would no longer expect to go anywhere or do anything at HIS events - you know, things he plans or wants to do - because that obviously made him feel stuck with me and obligated to bring me along (and therefore controlled.) If he wanted to keep on going to movies and ball games and on trips without me, that was fine, because I really did NOT want to control him this way and I would MUCH rather find something else to do without him. (AND I MEANT THIS).

Furthermore, I would no longer expect him to show up at MY events, either. (I am a novelist and sometimes go to book signings, conferences, conventions, etc. He was always invited and I wanted him there, but at the last one he dragged his butt to the event and behaved so horribly to me that I swore I'd never invite him again.) I told him I'd learned my lesson from that particular event. If my inviting him made him feel "controlled," in that he felt obligated to show up or I'd be upset, then I did NOT want him to even consider going. I'd go alone and have a perfectly fine time without him. (AND I MEANT THIS.)

I cannot tell you what a difference this has made. We are going to Disneyland next week, just the two of us.

The weekend after that, I have another conference where I am doing a writers' workshop and speaking on several panels as well as going to the parties Saturday night. I simply told him when it was and that I would be at such-and-such hotel all day Saturday and Sunday (staying in a room I paid for on Saturday night.) I said nothing at all about him going, just politely informed him that that's where I would be if anyone needed to get hold of me. And I really did not expect him to go. If he hadn't, I fully intended to go alone and enjoy the event and just let him do what he wanted - and maybe wonder about what I was doing! But he has insisted on coming along, wants to know what he should wear, etc.

The difference is like day and night. And it happened when I just suddenly and completely dropped the reins and let the horse run off if it wanted to. But guess what! The critter ran for a bit, and then circled around and came right back home.

You can do the same. There are no guarantees that it will work. It relies on the fact that you ARE willing to walk away from the marriage if he cannot and will not stop the P/A behavior. But he can't push on you if you aren't pushing on him - and THAT is what makes all the difference.

I was not able to walk away before I understood P/A behaviour. But I could now, since I DO understand it. And boy has THAT ever made a difference.

Here's the tough love part. Your H is right. You ARE trying to control him. You ARE still trying to push and pressure him into being an honest non-P/A man. And that will NEVER, EVER, work.

Try doing what I did - try telling your H that you DON'T want to control him and if that's how your actions make him feel (and they do!), then you will STOP ALL OF THEM RIGHT NOW. Thank him for letting you know, since you really did not understand this before (and you didn't). (Yes, I said that too, and I meant it!!!)

Then dress up nice, get your purse and go out alone for a while. Go out shopping or to a movie or whatever. You will be amazed at what this approach can do.

You have absolutely nothing to lose by doing this and absolutely everything to gain, even if it's just gaining back your own life.

**********************************************

And one more on what you can do about it:

I want to emphasize that it is the simple act of Calling Them On Their Behaviour **in itself** that is so effective.

"Calling Them" just means that you look them straight in the eye and calmly tell them that you KNOW their actions are deliberate and ARE meant to keep you off-balance and out of the way so the P/A can do what they please. You don't buy excuses or bend yourself into a pretzel trying to make sense out of nonsense anymore.

To put it bluntly, you start calling "bullsh*t" on their P/A behaviour.

Again, here's an example:

Picture somebody sneaking around in the dark and stealing your stuff. You can't see them and you can't prove it, but you KNOW damn well they're stealing your stuff even though they vehemently proclaim their innocence and insist you're crazy to think they're stealing your stuff.

You spend ages trying to talk them out of stealing your stuff and telling them how much it hurts you when they steal your stuff, but this makes no difference and they go right on stealing your stuff.

So, you try a different tactic:

The next time you feel sure they're stealing your stuff, you turn a glaring spotlight on them and get on a bullhorn saying, "YOU ARE STEALING MY STUFF. I KNOW YOU ARE BECAUSE I CAN SEE YOU DOING IT AND I AM NOT BLIND. THIS IS RUINING OUR RELATIONSHIP AND WE WILL NEVER HAVE A GOOD RELATIONSHIP AS LONG AS YOU CONTINUE STEALING MY STUFF. HAVE A NICE DAY."

Then you GO AWAY and leave them standing there in the glaring spotlight holding your bag of stolen stuff, with nobody to blame or argue with but themselves.

You don't stand there and wait for them to apologize, or agree with you, or make amends, or anything else. You GO AWAY AND LEAVE THEM THERE HOLDING THE BAG ALL ALONE.

That's it. That's all. For 99.999 % of people, just confronting them in under that glaring spotlight IS enough to make them stop - believe it or not! And for the .001% who won't, well, you would never have been attracted to one of those in the first place.

It's the confrontations **in and of themselves** that are effective. That's it. That's all you have to do. The confrontation is an enormous boundary in itself, as long as you are consistent about it and refuse to be talked out believing your own perceptions any longer.

Mulan

Okay, I went back and read through your thread again. Sorry - we've talked about this before and I just didn't remember right away.

Anyway, it strikes me that your husband's gawking at other women is in itself a Passive/Aggressive act.

It's Passive because it seems harmless. He can say, "But I'm not DOING anything - I'm just looking - all men look - I can't help it - etc etc etc"

It's Aggressive because he knows very well that it's insulting and disrespectful and hurtful to you when he does this. It's a button he can push that will provoke you and bring about your anger and irritation. It allows him to be your victim whenever you object to his "harmless" behaviour.

And it works, too, doesn't it?

P/As are only comfortable when They Win and You Lose. That's why POJA is out of the question for them, because even "win-win" feels like losing to them. If you're winning, he must be losing somewhere!

So, they like nothing better than to get their Winning Fix by doing something they know will provoke you and make you angry and upset. And they get their Victim Fix by being the victim of your anger and irritation at their P/A behaviour. This way, they can reassure themselves that they are still in charge and you remain off-balance and powerless.

In your husband's case, he's found that gawking at other women in front of you lets him do what he wants to do (stare at women), get his Winning Fix (you are powerless to stop him) and get his Victim Fix (you get angry and irritated by his rudeness and disrespect.)

Works perfect, don't it?

Have you ever just gotten up and left when he starts gawking? I mean, to the point of calling a cab to get home if you need to?
Mulan

Mulan,

Your last post really helped me fit the pieces of own my puzzle together.


So, so true!


Oh, I had tears come out of my eyes, I LAUGHED so hard!

Yeah, it works pretty well doesn't it? I've been such a FOOL!


Hmm…maybe I should try this. I think I've got the courage. And he's got the jaw to drop. Plus, I can use HIS money to pay for it. I could have so much FUN with this!

Whoa! What a roller coaster ride!

A lot has happened in the last few weeks. I think we are stabilizing now.

I spent the last couple weeks in an ultra Plan A with NO Love Busters whatsoever, except one:

I got up and walked out of the room as my husband laughed at the possible demise of his cousin's business since they were featured in a popular trade magazine and therefore, according to a business acquaintance, they should go out of business in a couple years.

This happened only minutes after he confided that he had lost a profitable order from one of his favorite customers toward the end of the day.

I wasn't about to say anything since that would start a Passive/Aggressive round of boomerangs, but I wasn't going to sit there and enjoy the ruin of my neighbor either.

He was floored. He sat at the table for a while thinking about it. First time I ever did that. The bathroom was a nice refuge for me.

The reason for an ultra Plan A was because the day after Christmas, I truly realized (gift from the Lord) that nearly everything my husband said or did about our relationship was intended (subconscious or not) to pull me into his "boxing ring".

I just didn't want to climb in anymore. I stopped, even if it meant we couldn't build our relationship.

I just felt like the more we communicated, the worse our relationship got. Have you ever tried walking in quicksand? Neither have I, but this must be what it feels like.

In essence, I treated him like a Wayward Husband (whether he is or not) since I did NO relationship talk at all, only small talk. I did whatever it took to look good, smell good, sound good, and feel good. I kept busy at things that made the kids and me happy.

Then finally yesterday, he broke the ice and introduced our relationship talk.

My heart pounded, though I remained relaxed and confident.

I only asked a couple questions to make sure we understood each other, knowing that anything I say about my feelings could be the next "boxing round".

We agreed that we were "on the same page" in our relationship and that he needed to earn my trust (as he correctly put it).

After that, I calmly added that I was "burnt out on fighting" and that I didn't want to fight anymore. I told him this so that he would know why I wasn't as conversational as usual.

I felt better. There was a long silence.

But I really wanted to let him know that he shook my trust when he left for his doctor visit last week but didn't respond to my text message during his trip (out of town).

The last time he went to the doctor, he started the text messaging and I liked having the communication even though he was just enthusiastically planning SF for that evening.

This time, it wasn't until after he got back to work (in town) that he responded to my SECOND text message asking him if he got my FIRST text message (wishing him a healthy visit).

I was particularly frustrated (he didn't know it) because I had failed to set the vehicle tracker correctly to get information about his trip. So the text messaging was the only tool (besides his computer) that I had for monitoring that day.

It spooked me that he didn't respond. Why not? Oh no, was he gawking too much? Did he go to the doctor or was he somewhere else? Who knows?

I just feel I have to continue what I've been doing the last couple weeks (no relationship talk), because it seems to be working. Isn't that awful for a happily married husband and wife?

Now let's REWIND to the couple weeks BEFORE Christmas and you'll know why I can't talk to my husband about our relationship.

Both weeks I was getting emotional. I was beginning to split at the seams. We hit our rock bottom (so far), but at least GOOD came out of it.

You see, in order to get the truth out of my husband, I have to PULL it out of him. I really don't want to do that anymore though. That was too much of a rollercoaster.

Here's what happened:

WEEK 1:

I nearly burst into tears during Sexual Fulfillment (SF).

Even though my husband GLARED at me for the first couple days that week, he voluntarily increased his Affection toward me to the point of bringing home flowers for our bedroom by the weekend.

I was very pleased with his efforts. It was very heart warming. So I initiated SF as a way of saying "thank you" for the flowers.

But the real relief came because I thought I had just completed an entire day's worth of vehicle tracking, which, to my delight, showed nothing suspicious, although I may have actually ended the real-time tracking too soon, because he called 5 minutes before dinner and said he would be late (1.5 hours).

Uh!

We enjoyed our weekend together, even though I was still saddened by his need for secretly "checking out" another woman while we were visiting with friends on Sunday.

He noticed the change in me, so after he failed to get me to accuse him, we calmly conversed about the subject, and then HE decided to go back to NO SF until he's not "hurting" me anymore.

The next day's email from my husband seemed promising:

"Thanks…for being open with me yesterday about your feelings, and at the same time being as kind as I could ask for."

WEEK 2:

I did something I've never done before.

Probably because of how important it was to me, and how the stress had built up.

It all started when our family portrait arrived. With it came our romantic portrait that we just happened to have taken because the moment allowed for it during the photography session.

I absolutely loved the romantic portrait. It really touched my heart. I could see that it was meant to be.

Not only was it a new beginning (good timing) for our relationship, but also I couldn't believe how PERFECTLY it resembled our candid, unique engagement portrait, except that we were a generation older.

When my husband saw it, he responded the same way he did when the proofs came in about a month earlier – no enjoyment, silence.

Well, that SET ME OFF - a second time (first time I brushed it off).

But I didn't blow right away.

I waited until a quiet moment of the evening to tear the portrait in half (right down the middle) and insert it into the same envelope that would carry the family portrait to my husband's office.

If he didn't like our portrait, I wanted him to know how I felt about it.

Basically, by not showing any enjoyment over our portrait, he was telling me that he didn't want our relationship. So I SHOWED him what that LOOKS LIKE on paper!

And I was feeling pretty vindicated about it.

I expected an email the next morning – and got one. Amazingly, instead of asking me what that was all about, he used the torn portrait to "free" himself of our relationship.

I challenged him for "giving up" on our marriage so easily, without even an inkling of a fight (or any questions).

Later that afternoon, my keylogger report showed me that he was trying to get his email password changed through his ISP. The last time he attempted this was right after we had both met up in his office that one day.

After hurling fire at me for a couple days through email, but not being successful in changing the topic (I kept full composure knowing that I had to reverse the role of victim and abuser in his mind even though I chose the worst possible time to do it), he replied that everything he has recently done for me is "not enough".

Poor him! Not enough?

Well then, I would be happy to inform him of what's really NOT ENOUGH.

I gallantly replied by giving him my own list of what's "not enough" for HIM. I sprinkled it with LUSCIOUS comparison details of all the women he's wanted for 23 years of our marriage. I also used his own words to explain that every time he wants another woman over me, it's the "worst day of my life" as his wife.

Do you know what happened? He understood.

I knew I would get his attention by explaining WHY other women have such a place in his MARRIED heart. He didn't think I had a clue. But I do.

I might even want to give the list (reads like a poem) a name: The Song of Solomon Reversed!

He said he was "sorry" for hurting me with his "addiction" and asked me what it would take to "prove" his love for me. I briefly said that besides his actions, I would like him to let me know about his struggles and what he is doing to overcome them. This would help me to build trust in him again.

I also said that I would like him to replace the diamond that turned up MISSING from his wedding ring during our first couple years of marriage.

Because of his lack of concern over the lost diamond all these years, how was I to know that he didn't really gouge it out and then act like it popped out and fell down a crack in the car seat?

This has become more of a concern to me lately since he has this tendency to slide his wedding ring off and on as we speak about our relationship. Really bugs me.

He replied that his struggles were "daily" and that it was "too personal" for him to talk about, and that changing his behavior could take a lifetime (how convenient), but that he was exposed to "the worst kind" of pornography as a boy and his adolescence was further ruined by hanging around the wrong crowd.

After a hole burned through my heart upon hearing about the ruin of a precious child (him), I explained to him that I believe we married each other "as is" and that I love him and that I don't hold his past against him. I only want us to leave bad behavior behind and have a good marriage together.

Also, I didn't feel the need to cry anymore. My emotions began to stabilize instantly. I felt like I was beginning to understand a very important part of him – even if there was more to find out.

I just hope he wasn't trying to say, "I can't help myself, so please, hand me another bottle, will you"? I am of the understanding that if you are truly sorry for something, you stop doing it.

After I asked, he said he hadn't participated in the degradation of women (pornography) since we've been married and added that I am his one and only.

I want to believe him, but he has already lied to me too many times. I need more than words now.

I have yet to see him make a move on the missing diamond. And I'm willing to bet he didn't put the old pictures back into his office like I requested while we wait for the new replacement portrait to arrive.

At least now he knows HOW he can earn my trust back. And that's where we are today.

Just for the record, here is what happened on Weeks 3 and 4:

WEEK 3:

By Christmas Eve, things were going great.

We even found some private time to ourselves for some "fun" midday Sexual Fulfillment in our bedroom while the kids kept busy with Christmas preparations. How sweet, huh?

But what happened on Christmas morning?

He verbally expressed his dissatisfaction with the Christmas gift I bought him. Apparently, he thought our daughter picked it out. But she didn't. I did. Even if she did, that was completely uncalled for and not like him.

Actually, that didn't really bother me.

If he didn't like it, he didn't like it. Apparently, I just bought the wrong thing, even though I thought he said he wanted this type of clothing several months ago.

Too bad we couldn't have picked out our gifts together, like he said we would do, on our last dinner out. How romantic that would have been! We haven't ever done that.

But he insisted that we didn't need to make reservations after I suggested it, and therefore we lost our shopping time by WAITING at a popular restaurant which happened to be having their busiest day of the year.

What really bothered me was his response to the jewelry gift I picked out for myself.

I don't like the idea of doing our own shopping, but somehow this practice has developed over the years, especially since he waits until last minute to do any shopping because of his busy business season. When he found out I had taken care of our gifts, he expressed utter relief.

I felt sick after opening my gift. Why wasn't he happy to participate in giving me a gift that I really liked and that was purposely kept within our Christmas budget?

He just didn't say much and then left the room.

What's new, right?

Breathe.

Why is he so IMPOSSIBLE?

I guess I still had some volatile emotions left in me.

Later on Christmas day, I secretly threw my Christmas gift into the bushes and confirmed to myself that I would replace the gift with something 10 times better – and with my own money. This would remind me that he is NOT going to ruin my life, or my happiness.

The day after Christmas, upon receiving my husband's emailed excuse (half-hearted apology for his actions), which had the potential of starting a whole new round of P/A boomerangs, I decided that responding with relationship talk was not healthy for our relationship or for our family.

It was also the same morning that I read ALL ABOUT his sexual attitudes, which turn out to be quite selfish, in the book on dealing with P/A behavior.

Our children had graciously and joyfully carried us through the Christmas season and I wasn't going to let them down.

That's when my ultra Plan A started…and continues today.

WEEK 4:

With the previous week's realization of how my husband tries to turn himself into MY victim to live out his Passive/Aggressive fears, I was able to stay out of his "boxing ring".

He seemed confused.

For example, how could I be genuinely happy without engaging in ANY relationship talk or debates whatsoever?

How could I be content and silent when he let the front windshield fog up to the point that our children voiced concerns over dangerous driving and wanted to know why I wouldn't say something about it?

How could I still be happy and not mention a word about his behavior when he sulked and pouted ALL DAY while we joined the children in volunteer work for our community?

How could I carry lighthearted conversation with our children at the table when he looked at me with facial expressions that appeared to be hatred?

How could I not complain, when we did carry conversation, that he burped and yawned like a hippopotamus every few minutes for an entire hour?

How could I not disagree with him when he said something to the kids that he KNOWS I would object to?

I was not confused.

I had confidence that as long as I didn't participate in his P/A behaviors, he could not blame me for ANYTHING. No more "victim". No more "abuser".

It seemed to be working.

On New Year's night, after an entire week of NO Sexual Fulfillment, he crawled into bed and held me for a long time, saying that it was comforting to him. Afterwards, he kissed me good-night and patiently turned over to go to sleep.

I did end up reconsidering SF. Amazingly, that night, I felt more APPRECIATED than I have ever felt in our entire marriage. He didn't tell me he loved me until his email the next morning though.

I wonder if I made a mistake. He didn't deserve SF for the way he was treating me. And his refusal to text message me a couple days later at his doctor visit proved it.

I considered it a deposit in his Love Bank though, to which his next email confirmed:

"Thank you honey for all your patience with me, you have a very loving and forgiving heart."

FAST FORWARD to now…

I don't know all that is going through his mind.

I do know that recently, when I entered more preset text messages into his phone with his approval, he stood less than 10 feet away appearing to be looking at Christmas cards, not letting me or his phone out of sight until I was finished.

Oh, that spooked me. Why the surveillance?

But I think (unless there are other means I am unaware of) I now have him COVERED (with snooping).

Not only did I upgrade to real-time vehicle tracking, but also I had to find a way to collect data from his cell phone since I have NO access to his company billing, NO access to a SIM card that doesn't exist on his phone, and only a data cable to connect forensic software ($900.00 OUCH!) to his brand/version of phone.

I may have been ripped off by the software company. They claim they surpass their competition because the software collects "deleted" data, but I'm not seeing the data that I deleted on his phone. I may reconsider the charge after consulting with the company.

I would rather spend the $900.00 on a diamond that I can wear on my other finger if my husband doesn't replace his, as a testimony to working on our marriage – with or without his contribution.

Also, my husband must have finally got his email password changed.

His email stopped working because the connection settings had been changed. He explained how his ISP manager had to come in through a remote connection to get his email working again.

I didn't check the keylogger report for any setting adjustments, but he said, "I don't know" when I asked him how the settings changed.

Ah, but it was so nice watching the general process (don't have keyboard functions yet) through the keylogger reports.

I can't tell you how many hours I have spent spying, putting data together (forensics is not easy), trying to sort out and document our relationship, reading about relationships and checking out maps.

My husband doesn't know it, but I have spent COUNTLESS hours on him!

I plan to continue in my ULTRA Plan A and wait for him to change our relationship for the better. After all, we can't do it without his help.

Something else I might want to mention:

My husband has been seeing a doctor because he's been having unexplained and frequent "lightheadedness".

The interesting thing is that this has never happened to him before with his good health until the very week I started my version of Plan A in August 2006.

He will now be seeing a Neurologist to get a second opinion. There was no first opinion from his doctor who explains everything to him very well.

My gut feeling is that this is related to "relationship stress". Plus I think lack of sleep from stress and/or SF may contribute.

Presently, SF has been occurring only about once a week, so it's not like he's being overly taxed, but the lightheadedness continues.

Thanks for listening.