Ugh, nothing really noteworthy.

But since she kept telling me how she couldn't find peace because she could not figure out why I broke up with her, I did finally send her a long note telling her how I wanted different things from my partner, like someone who is a morning person, is active, is not preoocupied with her looks, takes care of their chores, has interests in life, and lives within her means.

So of course she thanked me, and said that she has flipped a switch and now all her priorities have changed and she has had an epiphany and sees that what she used to see as important is no longer important.

She said that she hopes that I will give her "new" lifestyle a try, maybe not now, but in 6-12 months.

She then wrote a bunch of other e-mails, from "I am so sorry I didn't listen to you earlier when you expressed your concerns" to "these past 9 months weren't represenative" to "why would you refuse to even consider having a relationship with the new and improved me?".

Anyway, I finally decided to go dark, because she was beginning to worry me, and I did not want to get sucked into an e-mail war with her, as it only prolonged the drama.

Good thing I have no bunnies at home and she can't cook <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />.

AGG

Oh man AGG........

You know, I kinda feel bad for G. Again, one would hope that these epiphanies were real and not merely to get you back. I find it sad that she's willing to compromise who she really is instead of seeking her true mate. .....I DO believe there is someone out there for everyone.

From what you've told us, she appeared to be a truly lovely woman whose lifestyle was just incompatible w/ yours.

Anyhoo, I think it was good you gave her closure and are going dark. No need to drag it out.

THAT was funny <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

AGG -- you are certainly the comedian these days!

I think you've already recognized it for what it is...another plea for another chance.

These changes would need to be demonstrated over a long period of time, most of us can fake it for a little while.
Sounds like you probably met her needs better than she met yours.

So bigguy -- any more news on your situation?

Haha... the forums were getting a little boring. Need some drama around here. And too, can't let AGG get away with hijacking *my* thread... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I haven't called M since our last conversation and she hasn't called me. I think about it sometimes, but don't.

I talked to D, our mutual friend, last night and she told me that she went to the YMCA earlier in the evening. M called her and joined her there. They walked and talked. This is their conversation according to D.

She said that M mentioned that she, M, called and wanted me to come over but that I didn't. D said "good, it's too soon for him to come over".

M said, "but he's supposed to do what I tell him"

D, "no, he's his own person, he doesn't have to do what you tell him"

M, "well, he must be following your orders now"

D, "no, I don't tell him what to do, and you shouldn't either. Are you coming to the movies with us?"

M, "I don't think he wants me to go"

D, "That's silly, he's talking about the three of us going. M, he still wants to be friends"

M, "Really, when did you talk to him?"

D, "Today."

D's impression is that M isn't sure what to make of me. It's like she has this picture of who she thinks I am, but I'm not fitting into the picture very well.

D also thinks that M needs to learn how to be comfortable being alone. That she needs to be with someone. I can see that, because despite her 'tough' exterior, she needed a lot of 'together' time.

And, I know y'all are going to chastise me for wanting to go out with them this weekend. But I think the three way friendship gives us a much better chance for us to come out of this as friends than if it were just the two of us.

I have to agree with the other poster about the infeasability of trying to remain "friends". Personally I always found such friendships to be pretty hollow. Although to be honest it was always a women I had been or wanted to be romantically linked to desiring for us to remain "friends". In my experience this doesn't work. This leads me to question your motives in desiring to maintain this friendship? Are you sure that you aren't the one who is afraid of being alone and by remaining friends you in effect can keep the possibility of a future relationship open if nothing else better comes along in the future?

IMO making a clean and total break is the only way to go in ending a relationship. That is the only way to do it that is fair to both parties. Otherwise one or both of you will always retain some hope that at some point in the future something will happen that will bring you back together again. If that isn't what you want then trying to maintian regular contact with her is a mistake.

Fine then, I guess I won't tell y'all about my date last night... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />


Consider yourself chastised! I agree with Broom, this "friendship" is sounding more and more disfunctional to me, especially given some of M's comments. And this whole 3-way thing (hehe) is actually seeming to make it more high schoolish in the whole "he said to tell you that she thinks blah blah".

Hang out with D, give M a break. Or, as Broom wisely said, try feeling OK without a woman in your life (said the pot)... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

AGG

And how is that you guys find dates so quickly?
Curious minds [or mind] want to know.
My last date was 7 mos ago with no prospects in sight.

Objections duly noted.


Hehe... Well, considering as how I was alone on my own for eight years concentrating on raising my kids, I would say the prospect of being alone again is not one of my bigger concerns. I'm comfortable with who I am. I am comfortable with where I am at in my life. I can do it. Do I want to? No, I decided over a year ago, I want and am ready for the joys and heartaches of being in a relationship.

No doubt, for me it's a scary ride. The new relationship endorphins kick in pretty hard and for a long time I didn't trust myself to make healthy, rational judgements. But, I dipped my toe in the water and learned that I can swim in the deep end of the pool now.

Friends or no... that's like the whole do you remarry when you have kids argument. For some people it works wonderfully, for others it doesn't. I decided a long time ago, because I didn't trust my judgement, not to chance it while I had the kids. Now that my kids are older, I just recently learned that at the ages they are at, the chance of success is even slimmer. So, for now, for me, it isn't what I'm looking for. If it happens, it happens, but I'm going to give any exclusive relationship I get into a very long time to simmer before making any lifetime commitments.

Ok... as for the question of friends with an ex. Yes, I know that remaining friends usually never works out. But you know what? If it doesn't work out, then we're just not friends anymore which is what you are saying in the first place. I like these people as people. Yes, they have their flaws. Yes, we take the risk that remaining as friends will lead to heartache and pain. But you know what? That's life.

And I know that nothing I've written will change your mind that this is a stupid thing to do. And perhaps it is. Maybe I am being stupid. But it is what I choose to do. Besides... it makes good drama for y'all.

As the lady says, he is his own person...

The real test of whether or not you have successfully moved into the friends only stage: when one of you has a date with someone else, and the other is TRULY happy for them -- and not jealous.

(And sometimes that only goes one way.)

In the meantime, we get the drama! YEAH!

Woahhhhh talk about a homerun!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Woo hoo! Nothing I love better than dissecting and analyzing *others* relationships <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Proceed w/ caution mon frere.....

One of the aspects of M, and my relationship that has been lost in this discussion is that after "breakup #3" nearly two months ago, we agreed to date other people. M has done so, I've been slow at it. Both of us, I think still clung to the hope/thought that we would end up getting together more permanently. "Breakup #4" laid to rest any thought this will be possible.

M has been on dates and I'm happy for her. I do want what's best for her, even if what's best for her isn't me. It makes me happy and sometimes, sad at the same time. M told me she was glad I went out last weekend. I think she experiences the same thing.

I didn't mean to imply that I think you are being stupid (talk about the pot calling the kettle black, ha!). I just wanted to make sure that you were going at this from the perspective of being totally honest with yourself. I've got a long history of denial, so that's kind of become something I try to avoid at all costs. It really sounds like you know what you are doing and are willing to see it through. I'm cool with that.

Good luck.

Personally, AGG, and other's, I'm all for men not trying to live their lives without a woman. I think all together too many males are quite content with the bachelor lifestyle. It's no wonder so many of us dishes can't find someone to date.

I want the testosterone types on this board to repeat after me:

MUST HAVE WOMAN. MUST HAVE ONLY ONE WOMAN. MUST HAVE WOMAN.

Drama Galore...

Friday night, the kids and I went to the High School football game. It was COLD! I decided since we got there very early to park the truck up next to the bleachers and “watch” the game from inside the truck.

Slept in Saturday. M called and wanted to know if I wanted to watch her kids’ last soccer game near my house. I had to run a couple of errands and watched a little bit of one game. The kids and I met my parents at a small town where our Amish community resides and had lunch at a BBQ cook-off. They had spent the morning going around on a Barn tour. My son went home with my parents for an overnight. Got back and saw a little bit of M’s other child’s soccer game and then took my daughter to her friend’s house for a Haloween party and sleepover.

Well, M, D, and I decided to go to the 10:00pm show of The Departed. We were going to get together and get something to eat before. As it turned out, D wanted to bring a ‘friend’ which is a euphemism for a guy who calls every so often and they go out. D and her friend didn’t want to do supper but would meet us at the movie.

So, I go to pick up M about 8:00. When I got there, she was on the phone and was visibly upset. Apparently, her (whatever word to describe someone she’s dated for 5 years, but really isn’t a boyfriend whose name is D) called and told her that he met someone at the wildlife center where he volunteers his time, they’ve been flirting around and then accidentally had SF that afternoon. This was the first he said anything to M about meeting someone. So, they talk on the phone till about 9:00. Apparently, this woman is living with her boyfriend and told D that she isn’t going to leave her boyfriend. Irregardless, it seems that she’s still willing to mess around with him and he wants to “pursue a relationship” with this other woman.

So… we didn’t go to supper, but we did go to the movie. I spent Saturday night and Sunday with M. She, of course, told me how breaking up with me was a big mistake and that she wanted to get back together with me. I tried to make her feel better, and convince her that the reasons we broke up were valid reasons. I finally caved a little and told her that if after two months of being strictly friends with me, she felt the same way, I would give being exclusive with her another shot.

Ok, now tell me that I’m stupid and slap me with a mackerel.

ok, i really want to commment on this but must think through my answer so as not to come across like a b*tch...

so i will check back later, after removing the mackeral from my hand!

mlhb

Stupid!! *slap slap.........SLAP!* <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

BGuy, I realize we only have your side of the story, so what follows is based on only what you've told us----

Which is you all have broken up 4 TIMES in a year, have incompatible parenting styles, M appears, again from what you've told us, to have BIG trust issues, apprently feels that you basically should do as she tells you <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> and is just not very emotinally healthy. As for you, you seem like such a nice guy, who has problems w/ standing up for himself, and like girls w/ and *edge*....my point? You guys BOTH need to get healthy or else this vicious cycle will continue.

I know it's hard letting someone you care about go. But from what you described here, this sitch is so not good for either one of you.

Love yourself enough BGuy to EXPECT respect from a partner and EXPECT to be treated well. I see very little respect in the statemet "he supposed to do what I tell him"....OY.

BUT, like you said earlier, you are a big boy and must follow your own path and figure things out on your own. We've all been there...I too had disastrous type rebound relationship and I sure learned ALOT! What I learned the most and what disappoints me the most about myself? That I clearly didn't *love* myself enough at the time b/c I allowed someone to treat me poorly, but it obviously was a reflection of what I was feeling about myself. Infidelity sucks!

Anyhoo, keep the drama comin' and I'll be sure to keep my 2x4 handy! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Yeah, I know.

And yeah, I know you think I'm totally off the deep end... Yes, it was hard sitting there watching someone I care about hurting. And yes, it was difficult not to say things she wanted to hear even when I knew if I said them it would help her hurt less. But I didn't say them.

I am not waiting in the wings hoping for another relationship with M. I said two months because I am hoping that after the sting of this breakup fades away, she is more apt to think clearly and realize that 'we' just don't work at this time in our lives. But, the more that I think about it, the more I think that the whole two month scenario is a really bad idea.

M has never been without a boyfriend her entire teen/adult life. Her history; extremely uninvolved parents, wrong crowd, low self esteem, early (most) relationships with men 10-20 years older.

M needs a friend right now much much more than she needs a boyfriend. And frankly , I know I am not the best choice of a friend she needs right now.

The question I am pondering is, do I tell her never to call me again and totally abandon someone who I consider one of my best friends in the world?

Or, do I kill the two month hope in her mind, establish firm boundaries on our friendship (and yes, I am capable of maintaining my boundaries) and just be there for her as a friend.

I totally understand where you are coming from and wanting to spare her further hurt. Absolutely. But I too think it's bad idea to string her along w/ false hope, feeling how you feel. I think the potential for causing her even further hurt is greater. She'll feel duped. Be honest w/ her and tell her how you really feel. She deserves that and if you can really maintain your boundaries (b/c we all know it's hard when feelings are involved!), then I think this is a really good option
Hugs!!

OY VEY(minus a bunch of swear words)!!!!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

okay with that out of the way...No contact on both ends would be a good thing...and that's all I'm going to say at the moment...... (insert a smiley being wacked several times with a mackerel)