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#1774055 11/28/06 06:00 PM
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Last edited by tjblack7; 12/01/06 09:39 AM.
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I am sorry my friend but your wife has been lying to you and manipulating you. It simply does not make sense that she was still emailing him up to the time she got caught. Supposedly this was after she saw was with him naked and her half-naked? She claims now not to have had sex with him but she continued to email him? What is wrong with this picture? You know in all probability she had sex with him. Since he is such a womanizer you both better get tested for STD's.

The fact that she lies and has drawn credit cards on your grandmothers name indicates this is a person with a totally broken moral compass. Since you continue to catch her in lies I don't see how you could ever trust her. She really sounds like she has major serious issues. I strongly suggest counseling if you wish to remain in your marriage.

It would not be a bad idea to see a lawyer also to understand your legal obligations, She just sounds too untrustworthy to stay married to. In addition, she is not taking responsibility. Because she lost your life savings and could not tell you; she felt it was all right to pursue another man sexually....Oh please. She has engaged in immoral and crimminal behavior. I hope you are not in denial also. I wish you luck.

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I think what throws me off and somehow strangely gives me hope is that she gains nothing besides my love from our marriage. She makes more than me and is better off financially if we were to split. She really is trying to make our marraige work. She is in counseling now and has been diagnosed as borderline bi-polar.

I don't believe she lies to me intentionally, it is more of a reflex action to anything she thinks might upset me. Her ex was physically abusive so she trained herself to avoid conflicts by hiding anything bad.

Yes her excuses for pursuing this guy are classic justifications. But by the books here and the forums responces I realize I am not entirely blameless in this either. I did disconnect from her in a big way. I suspected something was going on and didn't speak up, instead I withdrew and spent all my time on the computer.

The lies I catch her in are of the vain of hiding things that she worries might upset me, telling me a bill is paid when it was sent off late. Most of her lies and hidden things revolve around her extremely fragile self esteam and worry over me finding out stuff and getting mad.

She knows I am not the physical type, I'd never hit her. But she is still gun shy due to the 8 years of abuse she suffered from her ex.

Yes I am making excuses for her. I love her and I do believe she loves me too. I have to believe there is hope for my marriage.

Last edited by tjblack7; 12/01/06 09:51 AM.

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wow, you sound like me and she sounds like my wife. My wife blew 900k and we have 3 kids, how 'bout that? Oh yeah and she was my eigth grade sweetheart and was a republican candidate during her affair, while with a rep. county chairman/pastor!! How' bout that one!? Everythin (ha, ha, ha) else is the same! Unbelievable!! My choice, put up hard monitoring: spector (spector.com), change phone numbers, get a GPS tarcking device (wherify.com), move across the country, let her credit go to crap (her fault), expose the affair to everyone. Then take my chances, be the hero for my family. If it ever happens again, there will not even be a discussion. First time shame on you, second time......

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I think what throws me off and somehow strangely gives me hope is that she gains nothing besides my love from our marriage.

Sounds like she gains an accomplice in her criminal activities (credit card fraud in YOUR grandmother's name). I'd say she has a reason to want this relationship to work.

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Welcome, TJ...to MarriageBuilders...where you can recover your marriage and thrive...takes time, fortitude and radical honesty.

First, you have to be radically honest with yourself.

Your WW was in an affair (EA or PA) up until you called her on it. There is no waffling...an emotional affair is as devastating as an EA...just is...and you know you can't know the truth from her yet.

What you CAN and DO know is what you do...that she put another person ahead of your marriage...which is an affair.

Your WW's problems do not come from an abusive marriage...she was attracted to her ex because of her childhood...it's life long. You can't cause, control or cure her of it...it's hers. She was attracted to you for the same reasons she was to him...withdrawal is abusive, too...so is lying, forgetting, name calling, disrespectful judgments, independent behavior and lots of other stuff...check out Love Busters (LBs) for more, and "The Verbally Abusive Relationship" for more...because knowing what you do and what is done to you clarifies what you can do to recover your marriage.

Eliminating your own LBs first is essential. Takes ownership...you've seen your withdrawal for what it was...now, go underneath that and get to your basic beliefs...do you earn punishment? Therefore, do you withdraw to protect and/or punish? Do you earn love? If you're good enough, does that make your partner treat you well? Protect you from their own harmful choices?

You chose to avoid conflict...that's a life long habit. Get underneath that one and see where it comes from...get to know and share yourself, open and honest...rather than focus on her, her dishonesty, her stuff...where you have no control.

You want a partnership? Be a partner. Sounds like you both have seen your parents in each other...Harville Hendrix's "Getting The Love You Want" says we all do...take our family of origin (FOO) and find those positive and negative traits in our mates...our Imago (our image) gives us the attraction...and the destruction of that attraction when we remain unaware of what we're doing.

"Boundaries in Marriage" by Cloud and Townsend will aid you in being respectful...seeing your partnership as you, her and The Marriage...so you can live in freedom, real responsibility and love.

Lots of resources out there written by people who have experienced what you have...and learned to thrive, anyway.

Your choice. Your power.

What is your recovery plan? What new boundaries have you put around yourself? Your marriage?

You both show CA (conflict avoidance) signs...and play the blame game...ridding yourself of the belief there is blame (that it exists at all) and that 90% of conflict in marriage are not problems to be solved, but to be understood...might give you a toehold in living as equals instead of slogging through life.

Go with ownership instead of blame...begin by using only "I" statements...stating what you think, feel, believe and perceive...no right or wrong...just your stuff, your truth. Then listen to her truth...and repeat what you hear...acknowledge...not fix or solve...validate that you hear her and that her stuff is hers...and yours is yours.

Establish the boundary of No Contact (NC) for life. That's what happens when a WS chooses to recover their marriage. She didn't break it off...you did. As long as there is contact, the affair continues. That's a truism you can bank on. That boundary is around you...predetermine progressive boundary enforcements if she chooses to have contact in any way.

Establish the transparency boundary...which is her telling you of any attempted contact, either way, even chance sightings or knowledge, even through third parties...so you know her whereabouts 24/7 and she knows yours...stay in close contact, as her choice to rebuild your trust...and you, value her choice. You can't make her...she chooses. You both trade passwords and screen names, email stuff with each other...so you both are transparent...a marital boundary.

Put in your code your own commitment to Openness and Honesty (O&H)...you state when you are reminded of her affair...when you worry, are suspicious...and own those...they are yours. All yours. Share them. She can't undo what she's done anymore than you can...holding your fear of conflict and sharing, anyway, is what takes your marriage from dissolution to thriving. I promise. I've lived it.

Your feelings of guilt are your own, also...you cannot trust your WW...and that's healthy. That's reality. You cannot trust her right now...stay in the present. Trust can be rebuilt...Harley says no one is healthy if they trust blindly. We thought love gave us blind trust. It doesn't. We are humans in a human marriage...every that was can be again...we can fall in love repeatedly...and nowhere, at any stage, does Harley advise trusting blindly...anyone. It's our wishful child seeking security and lying to ourselves. Doesn't mean we live in paranoia and expectations of broken trust...means we live in the middle...we are capable of infidelity...know it. Understand that. Even you are. We are all capable. To believe we are not is folly. To understand she CHOSE to have an affair is essential...that's ownership. Solely up to her to know why she made that choice so she will never make that choice again.

You can't control that. I do hope, though, you see where replacing her with a newer, supposedly fidelity free model, isn't an answer. We are all capable. You cannot make anyone protect you...you only control your own boundaries, choices, personal code of conduct...your standards.

Know that her fiscal malfeasance was betrayal, as well. And that her affair was solely about her...not you. And those who betray also betray themselves...find out where you have betrayed yourself and listen for her to share what she discovers, owns and learns from...grow together.

You aren't facing...stay or divorce...you are facing progressive boundary enforcements you haven't thought of...there are many. Begin with the basics and work outward. Find your limits and where you betray yourself to guide you to the progressive steps you require to love from your choice to love...not earning it. Act on your love...which can include choosing MC, IC, to separate (filing for a legal separation), up to and including divorce. And even then, your goal may remain to save your marriage. Others have...know these not as manipulation, but respect. See your own choices and you'll begin to see hers with clarity...and respect.

I have a suspicion that you have parented her--tried to redeem what others did to her...and you had no province, no domain to do so. In doing so, you harmed her, disrespected and taught her she was less capable...even though she earns more money...sounds like FS is really important to you and to her...often is the case when integrity seems impossible to achieve. It isn't. Build yours, show her through your example, your focus on you...and know your choice to be present, to stay, is a commitment to The Marriage, even when you fear greatly and don't feel like being committed to her.

You can do this...read and study...know yourself and share what you think, feel, believe and perceive.

Remember she can lie...and it remains within your power to not believe her. That isn't disrespectful...that's within your domain. After nearly two years of recovery, I have only recently begun to believe my DH...I respected he believed what he said...didn't mean I believed it as The Truth, just his truth.

Get to know the difference.

Calm statements, "I think I hear you lying about the salt. Is that what you're doing?"

No accusation...clarification. "It doesn't matter that I lied." "Good to know." Because it is good to know right now.

The reason for conflict avoidance is both of you taking on what isn't yours...you take on her feelings and stuff as yours...being the cause, control or cure...and she does the same. Learn this is living in a lie yourself...because your feelings are from you, about you, from your beliefs...and so are hers. They are information...they are not to be lived from...they are signals to learn and discern.

The more you own your own stuff, the more she will build her own self-esteem...most likely for the first time. She may be borderline BPD now, that doesn't mean she will in the future. Everything changes when you change you...stay present, aware and set your goal to know, not to fix.

Act, do not react.

You are not alone. You have found a great place to learn, grow and thrive. You can save your marriage and have a relationship you didn't even know could exist...beyond our imagining...because we were imagining something entirely different.

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From everything I can tell she is being honest with me now. We're trying to work on our marriage and fix the problems that got us so far off track. I have also been reading the book "His Needs Her Needs" and in just the 1st 3 chapters realized how poorly I was meeting her needs. We each filled out the needs, love busters, personal history and recreational activity questionaires from the main pages here.

The biggest problem we face now is more me than her. I can't seem to get what has happened out of my mind and many of our talks disolve into me getting frustrated and agry and bringing up her mistakes and this hurts her badly. I don't intend to do this and I know the taker in me is taking over at those times. But I don't know how to make myself stop.

I think part of the problem is I sometimes feel like I am the only one trying. This isn't true, but it still feels that way. She has already made comments about feeling like she is being watched all the time and not feeling like I trust her and it bothers her.

She has always been a very independant woman, so feeling like she now has to answer to me about where she goes and such makes her very uncomfortable. Sadly, due to the things she has done, I do feel the need to ask where are you going and with who and then verify it.

I am not sure whether I should just let it go and choose to trust her after all this or allow her to believe I do when I obviously can't yet. Part of me is saying let her do and go where she wants and don't question it. If she does cheat again, then she does and you'll know it's over. But part of me doesn't want to take that chance. Which is the correct route to take now? If I continue to show distrust she will grow to resent me? If I show trust after all this am I just setting myself up to be hurt again?

It does bother me that she tells me where she is going and with whom only because she thinks i don't trust her and not because she wants to rebuild my trust. When she does tell me she does so grudgingly, usually with some comment to the effect that she can't do anything without telling me first. This is part of why I still have doubts.

If she has nothing to hide why does it make her angry to tell me where and with whom she is going? Something I have always done for her out of respect and out of a need to make sure she has no worries about where I am or with whom. What i take for common curtesy to her, she takes as something she has to do only to appease me and actually resents me for it.

I am still so lost on what to do next.


Mr B

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