So here is my plan A. It is going to be short as my wife wants the divorce and I know she does. Her judgment is clouded because of the A and the things she is feeling doing things that she considers fund that she never did before like going to dance bars and dancing and drinking and hanging out with her step brother who is single and parties all the time. I any case I will tell her today that I still love her and do not want to take the easy way out but will work on this marriage. I will give her several reasons and I want her to give me an answer as to what her intentions are by Friday so we can work on a plan together, otherwise, I will implement plan B on Friday. My questions are:
Is this the right way to do it?
During this week I will be a loving father and husband to have good memories of me before I go. Is that good?
Should I expose her during this time to parents?
What do I tell the kids? They already know about the divorce but do not know about the A.

OK, I am a little green as I have only been going through this for a month, but I am going to try. why the deadline, what is going to happen on friday? my gist is that plan A should be longer than a week, and it shouldn't involve an ultimatum. she is in the fog and wont respond like you think she should. I believe plan B comes after you have shown her what she will be missing. have you read all about plan A and B?? BTW my WS is also doing the party, out all night thing, have you tried to join her and go dancing. show her that you both can have this type of fun together?? that would be part of plan A, do you know her EN? have you read about that??

dm,


Don't give any ultimatums right now. Work on being there for your W while she works through her confusion.

Of course she has asked for a divorce, it is just one more thing WSs do when the truth first sees the light of day.
Dday for me was on a Sunday and on Tues WW asked for a Dv. On Wed we spent some time together and she called me while on the way to work to say she'd had a good time with me. 2 hours later, after she'd talked to OM, she called and said she couldn't give him up and was certain she wanted a Dv.

Just don't talk about divorce with her. Don't make it an option or a possible answer to any questions. When she brings it up tell her "I only do marriage, not divorce." Typically, a WS says they want a Dv, but will do little to bring it about. The passage of time is your ally right now.

Plan A for a week will not have much affect. She is still in fog, will not respond well to coercion or being boxed in and can't possibly go through withdrawal in a week. Plan B must only follow a period of Plan A that gives enough time for the WS to see the future with the BS as a positive thing. It is intended to "stop the bleeding' as it were. When a WS flaunts their A and refuses to work on the recovery of the M, then Plan B takes away the crisis/reaction pain the BS is going through. It is intended to do 2 things; 1) It hopefully causes the WS to realize what they are going to lose in the BS. 2) It preserves any love that the BS has left for the WS and at least gives hope that if and when WS comes to their senses, recovery might still be possible.

The way it does #1 is to force the OM/OW to meet ALL of the EN of the WS and puts extra pressure on the A. It does #2 by simply removing the source of the BS's pain and giving them a chance to catch their breath and begin getting a real life back.

You have to do Plan A first or it isn't Plan B, only running away from the problem. WSs say things that hurt a lot. The hard part is staying with Plan A long enough for the fog to lift and the WS commit to working things out. If you stop seeing your W a week after Dday, I can pretty much assure you then your M is over. She already feels that she is justified in seeing OM, for what ever reasons she has conjured up. If you stop seeing her and meeting any of her ENs, you are giving her more reason to be with OM (or a NEW OM).

If you have decided to call it quits and don't wish to stay married to her any more, then just file the papers and move on, but then there is no Plan A, and no Plan B.

Is her A over? Will she agree to NC? Can you see any way for YOU to get past what has happened? This is what guides Plan A. It is a first step commitment to saving the M by the BS. During Plan A the goal should be to end the A and show the WS how good it can be with the BS. This can't happen in a week.

It isn't all about exposure. Before exposing to anyone ask yourself this question; "Am I telling this person about my S's A because I am trying to save my marriage or am I telling them in order to get even with WS?" If the former is the case, expose away. If the latter, then you need to stop and be sure of whether you even want to recover before going any further. As soon as it becomes tit-for-tat, the war is over and you have likely lost.

WWII was won on D-day when the invasion was not stopped. The axis won battles after that, but the war was already over and the outcome certain. What you, as a BS, do in the days immediately following your Dday will decide the outcome and determine whether you will remain married.

Mark

Well I guess I should have made a different statement and said I am in the process of negotiating Plan A. I have to first find out if she is committed to make the marriage work right? For the past two months my wife has been basking in the warmth of having her needs met by me and the OM. She has agreed to have my son brought to another teacher but I have not addressed yet if she is texting, calling, or seeing the OM still. I am pretty sure she is.Can I even sit down and talk to her about what the OM provides for her that I cannot if she does not even agree to the marriage anymore?

So for the last week or so my wife has been under the impression that we were going to go through the divorce and her and I were working on our friendship. I let her know even farther back then that after I was at my moms house for 3 days that I was coming back and I would not pursue the divorce, I would be the childrens father, and as far as I was concerned we were still married. I stayed at my moms house after she had been so angry at our counselor meeting when she found out I had spied on her and said it was over. Little did I know that she was really having an affair at the time.

Since then we have be friendly with each other and she was talking about the divorce and what she wanted to negotiate. I went along with it and started reading stuff on here. And I came to a realization on many things. First, I look at her differently now but still love her and want her back. When I say I look at her differently now I mean that in the past I would look at her and say I love her for her beauty and the person she is now I look at her and just see beauty. I don't know who she is. I feel vindicated for all of the things she accussed me of and the anger she threw at me. I realize that the reasons she threw out for ending the marriage don't make sens now, the are common complaints, and are also complaints that a WS gives. But I still want the marriage.
I regave my heart to Jesus again this Sunday. And the message given at church felt like it was made for me. It discussed how we all have dreams and thos dreams don't take the route we thought they should. And we cry out to God for the pain and suffering we are going through but God has a plan. And the greater the hardship the greater the plan. I told my wife that it is against Gods nature to have a plan of divorce and that he has another plan for us.

So with all of that in mind I wrote her a letter telling her how I still deeply love her and want to work on the marriage and asked if she was willing to work on the marriage as well. I told her to take some time and think about it and get back to me on Friday. In the meant time I will work on being the best person I can during that time.

What is the better route?

Oh and D-day for me was actually about 2 months ago.

I am feeling your pain as this is also very new for me. I think you are on the right track, problem is, WS's actually think they have found something better than what they have at home, this has been hard for me to handle as well. fully expect her to say she doesn't want it, and right now she believes that, its part of the fog!!! my WS is spouting the same stuff. the thing is, she is there in your house and you have to take that oppourtunity to show her there is something to work for, she will not say, yes I want this, because she is so wrapped up right now in her new "feelings" she can't see whats right in front of her. read up and strenghten your plan A. I am in your same position A going on about 2 mos, D-Day in OCT. It is so hard to sit by and wait while this happens in front of you. Read everything on this site, it really helps. God has a plan for you both, believe in that.

Wow you are very similar to me, reverse the ages of the spouses. I have 3 children as well and have been married for 14+ years. In any case what is very hard for me is her wish to go out with other people to bars and dance and see heavy metal concerts etc., she doesn't want me to go as it is her thing and doesn't want to have to baby sit me. So my plan for the last two months is doing the things I have wanted to do and work on her and I. I have been working out every day, lost 12 lbs, look fit, want to learn how to dance, how to play the guitar and sing. I can't stand to think of her going out and doing things with others and she has told me that if I want to go then I have to accept her flirting with other guys. There is no way I could do that. So what do I do? I have so much to read I think I should take a week off to do it all.

I understand it is very overwhelming, allow yourself some insanity right now. I had a very bad week last week, I totally lost it, told her to get her **** out, and leave. I was emotional, said I could not take it anymore. we couldn't even speak without yelling (this is unusual for us as we share everything quite honestly). a close friend actually had to mediate so we could talk and not chew each other out. Now, she is looking for apartments, she wasn't doing that before. so I have pushed her farther away. I am trying to maintain some composure and give up the rest to God. I think your track on being friends might be your in, what she doesn't realize is that friendship is part of the love you both share. Yes, believe that she still loves you, she just doesn't remember it yet. Let her think you are trying to be friends and spend time with her in a fashion that you can endure. If she states she needs to flirt in front of you simply state, "that's too bad, I think we could really have fun together" but if she is disrespectful, I would not put yourself in that position.
is there a band you both like?? maybe get tix and tell her you want to preserve your friendship. in any case, make the time you spend with her as pleasant as possible. and read up on her EN's.

Oh, and BTW, I think you should move your post over to general questions 2, I don't know how to do it, but I believe there is more traffic over there, and you need some support form the big guns so to speak:)

dm,

Plan A is about winning the WS back. You can't expect a WW to want to save the M. She has already trashed it. She's in fog, as in lost. Your job is to be a beacon (or lighthouse) to help her find her way.

Any talk of recovery or commitment right after Dday is a waist of time. Show her what she will be missing if she gives you up. Avoid love busters at (almost) any cost. Expose an ongoing A, but don't try to get revenge for anything that is already over. Work on building up your love bank account with her and just be her husband for now.

If all contact has stopped, you're just getting started. Remember that you didn't get to where you are in a short period of time, and you won't fix it in a short period either. I suggest that you don't even try to fix it yet. Any talk about the relationship needs to wait until she has some clarity of thought and she likely does not have that right now.

Just keep being there for her and SHOW your love (rather than stating it). She will either commit to working things out, or continue down the road of seeking a DV. Do NOT discuss DV with her.

Set a time limit (Dr Harley suggests that 6 months is what it may take and about as long as you can really do Plan A without killing your love for her) and see how things go. If she is ready to work on it before the 6 months is up, then keep working. If she has shown NO interest in fixing the problems that caused the M to break down by then, at that time, you go to Plan B to catch your breath, save any love and hope you may still have and work on getting your own life back.

My WW initiated NC on her own 10 days after Dday and committed to working on our M about 2 months or so later. We still have to deal with issues (the elephant in the sitting room), but at least she and I are under the same roof and in the same bed. We are far from recovered and I for one don't want my OLD M back. It has to be better than it was for it to be worth all that I'm putting into it. Besides, the OLD M wasn't all that great anyway.

I know what you are going through, my friend. I'm a "trouble shooter" and a "fix-it" kind of guy. My mission in life has always been to find something that is wrong and make it right, but you can't do that in this case. It isn't something that can be fixed. The OLD way is gone and your job now is to build a NEW one in it's place, one that is bigger, better, faster, more responsive to both your needs.

Try to imagine what you would be going through if you'd been caught stealing by your employer. Let's say that your boss confronted you over and over until you confessed. Then suppose that he didn't fire you, but instead, said he wanted you to stay. You would feel guilt, shame and all sorts of emotions. He might double check everything you do and watch you like a hawk, but slowly, if you showed yourself to be trustworthy, he might lighten up a bit and maybe, someday in the future be willing to even give you a higher paying job with greater benefits and authority.

The one caught stealing is your W and you are the boss. If you want her to stay, you must make it as comfortable for her to do so as you can without giving her free reign to continue to break her vows. After some passage of time, as you begin to see her as trustworthy, you will begin to trust her. With luck and some hard work, she may turn out to be better than she had been before.

But if the boss fires the employee, has him arrested, jailed and his picture plastered all over the front page of the local paper, even if he later asks the employee to come back to work, the shame, fear and ridicule would be too much to take and it would not be possible to return.

Or if the boss follows the employee around and records everything he does, checking up on every penny, asking for an account of every minute of every day, the employee would likely leave and never return.

Plan A is the first scenario.

Keep working at it, you can do this, just not in an afternoon.

Mark

dm,

Just had to jump back in and add this:

A friend of mine simply told me to read Psalm 102. Do it!
Pay close attention to verse 12, that is actually where you can end. Then read it again! And again...

Also, read the book of Hosea. It is a story of forgiveness and redemption in spite of waywardness. It is about all of us who have been forgiven for what we have done. Can we give less to anyone else? This is what God's love is all about!

"I know the plans I have for you," declares the Lord, "plans to prosper and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future." Jer 29:11

Mark

My question then becomes. Do I continue with Plan A if we don't have an agreement? Meaning that she says she does not want to continue with the marriage?

This is great. Now I have some additional questions. So my fear now is that she finds out her brother knows about the affair and gets really angry at me. I have been sharing things with him as he has been my go to person but he himself is very angry with her for all of the lies and deceit. I am now fearful of losing our friendship as well. So I told her things would not happen fast with the divorce anyway as we need to hash things out, we have the holiday season, and she can't even qualify for the house she wants to get into. I am willing to work on what I need to as a husband and a person but without getting feedback on what her EN's are I will be operating blindly. How do I get her to tell me what her EN's are? Do I demand at this time that she not talk to the OM at all. Do I expose her to others as well? The biggest mountain of all is going to be her best friend. I can't tackle that now. And I kind of can see what she is thinking right now. If she wants me to replace her EN's instead of her best friend she will lose her best friend or her best friend will become what a best friend should be. Should I talk to her best friends husband and let him know the OM is talking to her as well?

dm,

She isn't going to agree to work on your marriage right now.

First of all, if the A is ongoing, exposure is warranted.
If it is already over, tread softly with additional exposure. The one exception is to let OM's W know about it, but even that can wait a little while. (Assuming he, too, is married.)

So my question for you is this; is she still meeting with OM? Is the A still going on? (Even just an EA)

IS OM married? If so, his W needs to know about it. She needs to protect herself and she can be one of your biggest allies in breaking up the A.

You have to understand that your W is NOT going to make a commitment to working on the M as long as she is living in the fantasy of an A w/ OM. She has rewritten her history w/ you as a way of coping with her moral dilemma she finds herself in. You have become the bad guy, the one with all the faults. You have already heard, or will hear things like; "I love you, but I'm not in love with you", "Too much has happened for it to ever work between us", "I haven't been happy in a long time", "I've never REALLY loved you", "We made a mistake when we got married" All WSs say these same things. It is a way to attempt to justify what is clearly wrong, even to the WS. Their moral compass is so screwed up by what they are doing; they need to try to find a justification to make it right.

So, the commitment to making the M work is now up to you. It is hard work. It means not getting your own ENs met while doing all you can to meet hers. My WW's commitment to making things work between us didn't come till over a month of NC had passed. Even after that, she was still in withdrawal.

And in the words of a song by the Oakridge Boys (on their album "Common Thread")
"You can't fix it, but He can."

Pray! Read! Plan and act so you don't end up REacting. Be sure you understand Dr Harley's basic concepts and all the info you can find on this site. Go to your local Christian bookstore. I'll bet they have some of Dr Harley's books on their shelves. Buy them or look for them at the library and read them. You can buy them from this site.

You need to make a plan and execute it with military precision so you don't do something out of anger and frustration.

I keep hoping some of the big guns will join in on this.

Mark

Great advice again. So if I understand it right now then I should not try to get her to say yes to work on the marriage but be the best hus band and father I can for now? Do I make demands though about the OM at this time? Meaning NC with him at all? According to her it was a one time encounter with the OM but I think she is texting him or even calling him. I will find out for sure when I can see the next online bill.

An additional question as well is should I tell my sons friends parents who are going to the same drum teacher. Should I tell his advisors?

duro ~ real quick here, I'm not usually one this board, spend all of my time on Recovery and GQ11 ~

A coupla things though:

You have too many threads going and it's hard to keep up with your sitch. Delete them, or what you can, and start fresh. It'll be much easier that way. And I suggest you start over on GQ11, that board gets a LOT more traffic....

Start by recapping your entire sitch, and asking specicic questions. Title your thread something like "New here, need advice on PLAN A and EXPOSING".

You have to expose NOW ~ WHILE you are Plan A'ing your wife. Sounds like an oxymoron, but it must happen. She's going to be PISSED ~ really mad. But here's a great saying that I love: your marriage can survive her temporary anger; I CANNOT survive an ongoing affair. You have GOT to start exposing, and expect to hear some crazy, hurful things; like, you've done it now, we're over; I want a divorce; I can't believe you did this; blah blah blah. All typical WS responses.

Stay calm keep telling her that you are sorry she's upset, but that you are doing everything you can to save your marriage ~ that there's room for 2, not 3, in a marriage; and that you intend on fighting for your marriage and family.

She's way deep in the Fog, so just remember: you're dealing with an ALIEN, not the wife you once new ~ don't take what she says for face value.

I highly recommend you move over to GQ11 and stay there ~ and stay on one thread, even with new questions. Don't worry, I did the same thing when I came here!

~MF