Well, as long as you choose to live like that, you have to be willing to live with the consequences, Julie. Are you prepared to be a volunteer in all this, rather than a victim?


It is "in the personality" of every alcoholic to drink. But if they want to recover, they change that personality. An alcoholic is not a "social drinker." A social drinker can control their drinking.


You cannot afford to have a H who is a violent black out drunk. But you have chosen this. When you decide you want to do something about it, give me a shout.

::

Ouch.

I can't win.

I think it's easier to divorce him. He wants this, he should have it. I've obviously proven I can't change him or give him enough incentive to want to.

Mel, whatever your experience it can't possibly come as much of a surprise my response was what it was. I honestly couldn't care less at this point if I'm married to him this time next week or not, but I've still got a mortgage to pay & a job to perform and most importantly, 2 kids to raise with a projected outcome better than my own.

Either walk away or help me. But I'll be taking baby steps in comparison to what you've outlined. What should tonight entail? Me taking clothes over to our friends'? I did pull up the AA site, our local meetings were mostly this morning & just an hour ago. I can get back in touch w/his IC.

Here is the thing that needs to be understood about an alcoholic, they have no problem with their own drinking. THEY ARE DRUNK when they act up, after all. It is OTHERS who have the problem. So, they usually have no motivation to stop unless they are forced or faced with LOSS. The only thing that motivates an alcoholic to stop is PAIN.

So, until there are real consequences, the alcoholic will do nothing to change. They will do what they always do: apologise, swear to never do it again, blah, blah, blah, do the same little dance, behave for a little bit until folks get off his back so he can go back to his usual drinking. When the heat is off, he will be right back at it again.

He will say and do what he needs to say to get you off his back, Julie, so he can get back to his normal routine.

Except things will begin to change. It will get worse and worse as time goes by. Julie, your H is already at the black out, violent stage now. It is not too far to the bottom from there. Just be aware that you are headed into very treacherous territory.

Have you been to Alanon?

Mel, thank you for returning to me.

Well here is the thing to be understood about me/my sitch: I did not know I was dealing w/an alcoholic. What I did know is that my H, much like all of *our* friends, enjoys drinking. I do sometimes, though never to the extent the others do, but there's a HUGE difference in the association - I grew up with alcohol winning over the electric bill, having me dial 911 for my mother's safety, and laughing w/my brother as my dad took 10 min. to get the key into the door mostly every day. Since my H is nothing like this and is a STAND UP MAN in many other ways, I didn't see the correlation. I'm not in denial, but shock - pain - desperation.

I get you on the consequences, there's no arguing your point there and there is no variation that applies to us either. I absolutely will not go thru this again...but saying that, I'm not sure I even believe myself. After all it's what I said last time, and here we are again. I would LOVE to know what it'll take to make that threat not an empty one and our marriage a full one, in ALL aspects.

I guess I'm not sure if things will get worse or not. Make no mistake, I'm not saying I'll sweep this one under the rug. My point is that this has happened a couple times over the years & he "bounced back" so to speak, well, just like you described I guess. Does he really need to swear off alcohol forever? How to make this determination? And will he choose me/us over alcohol? Well I honestly do not know. Those loser friends are pretty important, you know. If I pose this question, and I see it unfold with alcohol as the winner, then I'll kick myself for not just divorcing him tomorrow morning. Just sayin'

I have not been to Alanon. But I did see the hotline # on the AA site & wondered if I could/should call, though I imagine that is for the drinkers, not the spouses, etc. Am I right?

He texted, "When will you talk to me?" and I responded, "When I know what to say, and feel like you'll listen" He said, "OK, and I'm ready to listen"

You didn't answer my question about tonight. Does he stay there, or does he come here, in your opinion?

Listen to Mel. She is the expert.

But I will tell you that even though you don't think that your husband is an alcoholic, he is. Being an alcoholic doesn't necessarily mean a drunk on skid row.

My boys father was like your husband. He held a good job, and drank normally, mostly. But once in awhile he did CRAZY things. For example - he kicked in our front door, threw the crib across the room, smashed my boys acquarium, and didn't remember the next day.

I could never have friends over, because I never knew when he would do it again. One day my friend and I were chatting, my husband came home, went to his room, took off his clothes, and came back to the livingroom, with NOTHING on.

I finally left my husband and went on welfare for 2 months till I got a job. Thankfully, I have been blessed with 2 good boys, but I don't fool myself into thinking that they don't have scars.

Julie, I don't know what you should do about tonight, but I do think you would benefit greatly fram Alanon to get a better understanding of what is really going on here. Alanon is a support group for the spouses of alcoholics. If you call the hotline # they should be able to steer you to local Alanon meetings.

This will not stop happening until he gets help for his drinking, as you can see. It will get worse, and will become more frequent. All he has to do is play the remorse card for a while to get you off his back so he can go back to drinking. I think you need some help in recognizing the patterns of an alcoholic.

If he is an alcoholic, as I strongly suspect, this will get worse over time. And yes, if he is alcoholic, he has to swear off alcohol forever, if he wants to live a normal life.

You are right, believer. In 21 years of attending AA meetings the only skid row bum I have EVER met at an AA meeting was a Catholic Monsignor who got so bad he was living under a bridge in Cincinatti, Ohio. Other than that, skid row bums don't come to AA because they aren't interested in recovery.

Rather we see everyday people just like you and me. The skid row bums don't want help, so they won't bother with AA.

When I used to attend Alanon, I would say that my husband never did ..................(you fill in the blanks).

The Alanon answer was "NOT YET".

OK, here is my pseudo-plan. I say pseudo because I'm in the middle of cooking dinner and trying to appear as "normal" as possible - my kids are very sensitive to H & my relationship.

I will call Alanon. This will be hard to do because I really don't want kids hearing the details. I'll try to lock myself in the bathroom.

Depending on their perspective, I will let H come over & talk with him based on what we've discussed here as well as whatever I may hear/learn on the phonecall. Then, I'll likely let him grab a few things & send him away again.

Tonight is a "special" night for us as we have our Sunday-Night-Lineup on TV we always watch together. I know it's really going to hurt him that I won't spend this time w/him tonight, silly as it sounds. I welcome the dose of reality though, as it's usually me saying we can get thru this, we'll be OK, etc. I'm NOT saying that today!

As for me, you bet I need to learn about identifying alcholics! So far, for me, alcoholic = my dad. H & my dad have very few similarities, at least that meet the eye, so yes it's very hard to wrap my mind around H being one.

I'll post back if I'm able to get thru to Alanon.

"For a while I tried reassuring him & keeping calm but he got worse - broke MANY things in this house. A door, 2 planters, our porch railing outside, our railing leading to the 2nd floor, a chair, ridiculous."

And your children are very sensitive about your relationship with husband?

I, too, tried to protect my children from their dad's actions. When my son was only 3, he told me not to go talk to his father (after a similar situation). I was dropping my son off with a friend. He told me "Mommy, daddy is bad".

This son is 25 now, and doing very well. But he remembers lots of bad things - things that I never realized he was picking up. One day, when my husband was carrying on, I told my son to go outside and make clay figures - he was about 4. A couple of months ago when we were talking, he told me he remembered that day when I sent him out to play with the clay. And I had never said ANYTHING to him.

Go to Alanon. Don't just talk to them. Make a stand for your family. My husband chose the bottle over his family and died alone.

Julie, your H will likely not want to admit he has a problem and will want to sweep this all under the rug. [he will play the remorse card] I would not let this bother you, but just get his agreement to go to some AA meetings, if you can.

Regardless of his cooperation, you would get great benefit out of Alanon meetings, so I would plan on attending their meetings. If he won't get help for his problem now, at least you can get support and guidance for yourself. They will educate you about alcoholism and support you in learning to protect yourself from him.

No, they're sensitive TO our relationship. As in, they're proud to see us hold hands at the mall, reassuredly "grossed out" by our affection at home, and they notice changes in our moods toward one another.

I/we actually DON'T try to protect them from this stuff. Within reason, of course, but I have no doubt he'll be explaining to them at some point how he ended up trashing the place. That's how we work. I'm sure they've got scars too, but wanted to clear this up. We don't lie to our kids & we rarely "cover things up".

I'm sorry to hear about your husband. My best guess is my H will have a hard time choosing at best. The good news is I'm numb - and if he walks I may breathe a sigh of relief.

What do your children think about all of the "changes" in the house? I'm curious how he would be able to "explain" trashing the place.

And you need to realize that children of alcoholics often choose one for their mate.

I'm not telling you to give up. Just take your time, and make informed, good choices.

They think stuff was broken. I told my daughter that stuff did get broken, but nobody is hurt or in danger and we can fix things. He will likely "explain" by saying he had too much to drink and, as a result, lost control.

I'm not here to discuss or debate our parenting practices though.

I do realize that children of alcoholics often end up with alcoholics, and/or become alcoholics themselves. I was told this as a teen while in counseling for my father's horrid behavior. I sure did think I'd beat it though! Well I have, for myself, so I guess that's what made me think I'd never marry one. Heh

Well I put the kids to bed and called the Alanon line, but they're only there M-F 8-5. I guess I'm going to have to let him home to get stuff, not sure if I'll attempt any conversation or not.

Thank you again for your posts & your concern. I guess I'll make this place my hang-out again for a while. Hopefully I'll start to see an upward trend in my life soon.

~Julie

"I'm not here to discuss or debate our parenting practices though."

Julie- I'm not either. Just want you to realize that your children can't feel safe in a home where these things happen.

I think I would put his stuff on the porch. If he insists on talking, tell him that you are thinking about things.

You will see an upward trend. You just need to stick with us. We will help you.

Well I called in to work. My stomach is giving me an awful lot of trouble this morning and yes, I plan to attend an Alanon meeting. Turns out that's not till the evening but I'd hoped to sleep a bit & also call the hotline today as well.

He texted me this morning to please let him in for stuff. I agreed, and ran a bath for myself. When I got out he'd come & gone so that worked out well, dare I say. There is of course a note here again apologizing, and states, "I realize how the drinking turned me into a monster and I don't know where that came from. But now I know I must work on that every single day from this point on."

Mel, I know that's probably pretty text book for you and will elicit no hope or revelation for you. I'm not being naive either. I am glad though, that he wrote & feels that, because I guess from here I'm going to be the one to help him "work on this every single day..." and perhaps he will be open to whatever I throw at him. (You think *I* was surprised to get the AA recommendation!)

We have a friend who is currently going thru this, ironically, H & I have known him since middle school. His gf kicked him out with no promise to ever return, but a promise he won't unless he QUITS drinking. A tall order for him, as tearing up the house & breaking his fingers punching stuff while drunk has been the norm for him for years. Anyway, he (the friend) has come a long way, and perhaps he & H can do AA/treatment/whatever together. I'm unsure how to present this but it may be worth looking into. I know H will feel like he'll lose all his friends if he stops drinking altogether - and I'll agree, they certainly won't have much to talk about sober!

Well I thought I'd post this update for anybody who may be interested, and of course it's always helpful to get this stuff down on 'paper' as I sort it out in my head.

~Julie

Ask him then to pledge to stop drinking forever. Can you imagine if bananas caused an allergic reaction "turning him into a monster?" There would be no question about staying away from bananas! Strangely, folks view alcohol differently.

I suspect his response to this request will be that he doesn't really have problem and can quit any time he wants. Tell him to prove it, then.

Now would be the IDEAL TIME to ask him to go to AA because he is scared to death. He is horrified at what he did and may be relieved that you ask him to go to AA. I know it was the best thing that ever happened to me and I have been sober for 21 yrs. But, I would have never gone if my H had not MADE me go and drove me to meetings and sat out in the parking lot intially.


Yes, he will lose most of them. Because most of them don't give a rats [censored] about him and could not care less if he can't handle his drinking. They will dump him if he won't get drunk like them. The true friends will remain his friend and encourage him to get help for his problem, though.

Sadly, Melody is right - he will lose his friends. When my husband had a heart attack, not one of his drinking friends visited him in the hospital - they don't serve alcohol there.

Thanks for your response MelodyLane, I really don't want you to walk away from me now! Your banana analogy is a good one and I imagine I may need to use it during my discussion w/H.

I have one question though: he will likely say, as he's said years ago and as a ("bad" influence) friend of his said to me yesterday, that LIQUOR is the problem, so he must swear off LIQUOR and he'll likely agree to that with ease. His friend said to me yesterday, "was he doing shots?" Duh, of course he was, it was his birthday. To which he replied, "yea, he can't do those, he can't handle liquor." His reply was less than reassuring but honestly he was 'right', H can drink beer and be fine, like I said football games, holidays, poker night, etc. but if shots get involved it goes south. Same for the friend of ours I mentioned in my last post.

Anyway *I* am not disagreeing he should swear off drinking, but I am asking you how to handle/get past this particular argument. How do I respond?

I actually look forward to a life w/o alcohol, whether that means I'm still married or not. Imagine sleeping soundly when he goes out w/friends instead of waking at the sign of sirens worried it's for him or wondering if he or other motorists will end up dead. Imagine going to the bar to be with friends, ordering sodas for ourselves, having a great time together and enjoying one another with no worries of DUI or worse. I'm hopeful today. Thank you for that.

Sad. I already know which ones will go away, and which will stay, and he's/we've known them all just about the same amount of time. Saturday night when I called them over to help me get him out, one of his "friends" went home because "I don't want to be involved in that" He was reamed by the others, as his friend (my H) was at risk of going to jail and he couldn't be bothered to get here & help. Anyway, I know y'all feel I should've called the police but my point is this "friend" turned his back on not only my H, but our whole family.