Okay, Coughlin. My bad. I bow out since I'm really at a loss for what's going on here.

I don't want to be in a relationship with this new girl because I still have feelings for the other one.

Gawd...then why in the world did you sleep with her?!?

Let me answer, you used her in order to try and feel good. Just like you are using the Office Girl in an attempt to feel good...and as she is using you.


She asked me if it's possible that I could get back together with my ex and if she should continue to date other people. Yes, I know the second part of that question was a trick and no, I didn't fall for it. And I'll be honest, I didn't appreciate it.

While it was very irresponsible of the new girl to sleep with you on the first date, it does show some sense when she asked you these questions. You sure aren't very relationship savvy if you think it was a trick.

Now, remind us again about what a great "catch" you are. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

jmho
committed

Yeah, but there is still the elephant in the room. You love her, and she does not love you. You want her to be in a relationship with you, and she does not want that. All else (her work ethic, her humor, her hobbies) take a back seat to this major hurdle you have.

AGG

i have said all i can say on this thread. i have decided that i full heartedly believe coughlin is simply going to wait for office to girl to call and say she wants to be in a relationship with him.

that is it folks, that is what he is gonna do.

i am getting a migraine.
mlhb

Of course. And then he'll think that he proved us wrong and has won the prize. I happen to expect that he will end up in a relationship with the office girl again - only it won't be a prize, it'll be a nightmare.

AGG

So, he met a woman and the very first date they ended in the bed?
And he's using her? She's not using him, the same way??
How's that possible?

Also, 'he likes office girl for what she represents and how she makes him feel...'
Does it mean love is when you don't like what someone represents and when s/he doesn't make you feel good? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Anyone want to enlighten me please? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I believe that the woman went into this thinking that Coughlin was open to a healthy and normal relationship with her, and that the sex was a strong indication of a possible relationship (since she made it clear to him that that is what she was looking for). Coughlin also is looking for a relationship, but not with the woman he was having sex with, but rather with the office girl. That is misleading, IMO, which is why I believe that he used the new woman.

AGG

You can believe anything but it doesn't mean you know. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />
And don't tell me you believe that sex the first night is a 'strong indication of a possible healthy and normal relationship'?

I.e. we don't know her luggage nor reasons for rushing into bed with him...

I bet using was mutual <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Which is why I used the word "believe" instead of the word "know" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />.

But let's look at the evidence, the only thing we have to look at.

Coughlin's initial post:


Notice how he referred to her as "the girl he's dating", and that he wants to take things slow with her - date and enjoy each other's company. So I don't think it is a leap to [censored]-u-me that he told her before sleeping with her that he wanted a relationship, not a wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am.

But he soon had second thoughts:


IOW, he was trying to use sex to improve his self esteem, unsuccessfully. But sadly, he did not decide to tell the truth to the new woman:


This is a lie - he does not want to take it slow with the new woman, he knows she does not fill the hole in his heart - but he won't tell her that.

Oh, and the minute the office girl called him, the new woman became yesterday's garbage, a manipulating and tricking b*tch:


Bullcrap. This makes it quite clear that the new "girl" had some understandings from their exchanges prior to the sex, which Coughlin conveniently threw to the wind the minute the office chick called. Sad.


I didn't. I said that I suspect the woman perceived sex as a strong indication of a possible relationship, and I still believe that. She told Coughlin she wants a relationship, he told her the same, it is not a huge leap of faith to assume that if someone says they are looking for a serious relationship then them going to bed with you is more than a one night stand. Sadly, this woman had no clue how confused Coughlin was, and that the relationship he wants is not with her but with the office girl - he is only sleeping with her because she is there, while the office girl is at a bar. Yuck.

AGG

First of all, love doesn't hurt. Coughlin and the 23 yo are both in a lot of pain, emotionally. This is not love by any stretch. Coughlin seems obsessed and the girl seems a mess.

He can clearly see that she is a mess and yet he perpetuates her emotional instability by engaging in this game with her, and by having sex with her. She leaves crying because it hurts her emotionally to engage in this very damaging behavior of hers. Sex used for the wrong purposes hurts us. Sex used to try and fill oneself up instead of the celebration of commitment/love/marriage it was intended for is very, very damaging.

A relationship is supposed to be a positive thing for all concerned. It is meant to increase and expand what is good about a person, what is good about a couple.

I think my whole point is Coughlin should know better, if he truly cared about this girl and not just what she might bring to him, how he feels when she does shine her light on him he would see this is not good for her, and it is not good for him...emotionally.

It's about personal responsibility, and I for one am not seeing any of that with Coughlin. That is also the reason he cannot seem to get over her. He must want to suffer on some level. Hasn't had enough yet. And he doesn't care that she is such a mess that she cries after having sex with him.

I have neices her age and I hope to God that there are not men 15 years (is that how much older you are Coughlin) willing to engage in such emotionally damaging behavior with them. I hope older men would be a little more protective of young messed up women.

And the incident with the 34 yo was probably hurtful to the 34 yo...where is his personal responsibility in doing no harm?

He doesn't care, he is too emotionally empty to even care that someone might have gotten hurt because of his irresponsibility.

Fill yourself up first in healthy ways, and then you have something to give to another person. Then you can have a healthy relationship. A relationship that doesn't hurt.

Good morning all. AGG, you are incorrect sir. Wow, you must all think or assume that I'm a real jerk-off telling this new girl that I wanted a relationship before sleeping with her. Granted, I didn't tell her that I didn't want one. Heck, I didn't even think about it to be honest. I was just excited to be out on a real date.

Apparently she hadn't dated in awhile and I just found this out--after we slept together. Have to make that clear.

She has called me every day and I have to tell her today that I'm just not into it. I don't want to lead her on by dating her. mlhb, sorry my thread is wearing on you. How do you think I feel? Belonging2Myself, thanks for being the voice of reason on this new girl. It does take two to tango.

I feel like we are in a standoff here. You guys obviously know what I want and I'm definately heading your warnings. Just try not to make assumptions about my character because I'm a real descent guy who has made some bad choices/decisions just like we all have at some point in our lives. I'm just trying to make the best of a bad situation. I'm looking for clarity and advice on how to find happiness. I'm starting to think that I need to look behind door #3 to see what I'm missing.

coughlin, you want advice on how to find happiness with office girl. that's the problem! not just any old happiness, happiness with office girl. this is the question you keep coming back to. that is why we are all frustrated because we cannot help you with that from where we are sitting and seein g the whole picture. yes, door number 3 is "get yourself together first and be alone for awhile" when that is done, than open door number 4 which will contain endless possibilities. really, i mean that, it will.

making the best of a bad situation is knowing when to let it go and moving on.

damn, i said i wasn't going to post anymore. see, i took 800mg worth of motrin this morning and my headache went away <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

mlhb

Thanks mlhb for posting again and what you just said is exactly what I've been trying to get across. Anything is possible! Dr. Phil says that true love defies logic.

Weaver, you keep saying that I'm not taking responsibility for my actions. I'm trying to wrap that around my head. The sex with the new girl was mutual and granted it was a mistake and I realized that so as to not do it again and mislead her to thinking that I want a relationship. As far as the, office girl, I'm trying to not hurt her or myself anymore. What else can I do?

She asked me to go out for coffee the other night and I couldn't say yes because I'm protecting myself. What are her intentions? Not sure. I will not make a move until I know for sure that it is right. I'm not gonna be her "fall back" guy anymore. I deserve better.

Belonging, You asked for my rationale about love, how people make us feel and using another person. I’d like to provide some. First, I’m the first person to people we love make us feel good. They have an affect on us that makes us feel good, great or incredibly giddy with happiness. Around them, we are happier and more fulfilled. Otherwise, why bother?

However, there’s a world of difference between that, and using the “good” feeling like a drug to avoid pain, which is what I see Coughlin doing. I may be wrong, but I don’t think so now that I’ve been reading his posts consistently for a while. Among other things, Coughlin admits he’s depressed and he’s in counseling for that. Depressed people are in so much pain they’ll do almost anything to get rid of the pain. (BTDT-repeatedly) Also, it wasn’t that long ago he mentioned how the break up with this girl was like reliving his divorce. That leads me to believe office girl is tied up with ex-wife in some sort of way, and if he can get OG to come back, unlike his wife, it will prove he’s worthy. Once again, I’m guessing here. I could be wrong.


As for one-nighters and taking two to tango, sure. The young woman must have been pretty desperate for something, and if they both went into it for one night of super-awesome sex, I wouldn’t say anything but “I hope you used a condom.” However, the party of the first part knew the party of the second part wanted more, and knew he didn’t want it himself. Obviously, Fatal Attraction was before Coughlin’s time. BTW, how did the wandering spouse end up looking like the good guy in that one? Just because the OP was homicidal, doesn’t mean he gets a white hat.

Weaver,

I don't know for you guys, but whenever I LOVED and it was not mutual it hurt me so much...


Could be
But it could also be that he cannot (yet/never/now) - let it go
And all of us have been there, we should know about that possibility too, right?

And re: the rest of your post... he 'just wants her in his life... And we've been there too


And that we could say about our XWSs seeing them so happy with someone else and so unhappy with us.
But we did not.
They were "messed up" much more, yet we tried to keep them home
We tried and couldn't let it go
Then we did
And now forgot about all phases we have to go through in that process?

OK, I know, all of you want to help him, and that's nice
But there is no day before dawn
i.e. it takes time, not a few (anyone's) advice...

GG,

Not only you (most of posters here)...
I just used your words... Don't mind, pls!? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


I think this is hard to distinguish when it's about ourselves, and almost impossible if it's about someone we 'know' just from reading a few posts...


You are right, we cannot know
We can suggest him that this is a possibility but should not be convincing! him that it is the case
KWIM? (not only you but all others including me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />)


Because he is the main role <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

And Coughlin wants to be it too

First it takes an understanding that we are responsible for our own happiness, and our own pain. So if we continue to chase a R (this has never been his wife, just a girlfriend) that causes us pain that it is where we are going to stay...in pain.

Caughlin, yes you do deserve better. She is not emotionally available for a relationship right now. She may never be.

Have you ever heard of a distant/pursuit dynamic? You pursue, she distances. You stop pursuit, she starts pursuing?

Maybe this is what is going on with her. If that is the case I would run like the wind because the only way you can ever have her is to never let her catch you. Does that sound like something you want? How painful and unproductive.

The only way to get over someone is to make a decision that that is what you will do. You are not going to get over her if you keep allowing yourself to fantacize about her, if you keep taking her phone calls. Well you might but you are going to put yourself through a lot of pain in the meantime.

Personal responsibility = you don't hurt anyone else, you don't let anyone hurt you.

Why don't you tell her to stay away from you until she wants to have a real relationship, or tell her you are no longer interested and stop taking her calls (I bet she really starts to pursue you then because she is emotionally unstable) and then go out and find out what besides her makes you feel happy. But stop with the sex until you are in a really good place emotionally and in a good relationship.

Start thinking of her as the emotionally immature little girl that she is, and I bet you will stop pining over her pretty quickly.

You have the power in your own mind to get over someone...use it.

No one is trying to hurt you, we are just trying to get you to change your perspective a little bit so you can get out of this "mind-set" (per BA) you are in and start to become a happy kind of a guy who appreciates a good woman and what he can have with her.

..and you can feel it through your posts...

Projecting your own feelings/experience/fears... leads to losing objectiveness... vs. being free of any bias or prejudice... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Where I think I differ from you Belonging is in this: People who come here frequently over a period of time tend show most facets of their character. People open up and share parts they wouldn't elsewhere. Some of us try to rose-color the situation, others of us blacken it, but others start to get a real feel of our character. Not all of it, of course, but a lot of it. People here spill the beans about feelings, thoughts and actions they’d never tell their best friend.

Add in that there are no new stories in the world. We’ve been Coughlin. We’ve been Office Girl. We’ve been the “new date.” And we’ve been the chorus of office gossips who are helping keep the soap opera going. We collectively have lived the stories ourselves.

So while we can’t “know” in the sense of clinical data, we do have an excellent idea of the dynamics in on-going sagas.


Weaver, I would also suggest that Coughlin is not emotionally available either. That's why he stays in the pursuit/distance relationship.

FWIW, I have never made judgements about your character. I have no reason to believe that you are NOT a decent guy. In fact, if I thought that you were not, I would not have been bothering with advice.

But because you seem like a nice guy who keeps making bad decisions, I think we all are trying to help you stop making bad decisions and find the very happiness that you say you deserve (and I am sure you do).

We're all looking out for you Coughlin; the frustration you see is not with you as a human being, but with the choices we see you make that we all know are going to cause you pain.

If we didn't care about you, we wouldn't post to you.

AGG