I'll be alone for Valentine's day, but will get flowers, a red <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> heart, and chocolate... from my x <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
At least, that's what I've been getting from him for the last three years... after D and not before ever... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Well, I'm reporting as ordered...

The thirty-minute date was...worthwhile.

Sure enough, it turned out that she was much more verbal in person than via e-mail. I enjoyed talking to her, and there were no awkward pauses.

On the other hand, our conversation was utterly banal. I enjoyed it simply because I like meeting and talking with people.

I don't think I can dismiss the possibility that the superficiality of the conversation might have had something to do with our failure to get to know each other via e-mail first. However, I am also aware that there have been many occasions where I met someone for the first time and almost immediately found interesting things to talk about. This has given me pause for thought, since I've never tried to make that happen. When it does, is it because there are enough points of connection that it's natural for us to stumble upon them? Or is it just happenstance?

I received an e-mail from her today. It was the longest one from her yet, consisting mostly of a somewhat confusing story about events in the life of a friend of hers. Uh...?

I think the real turn-off for me is that all of our communication has been about externals. This woman has shown me no indication that she has any kind of inner life, although I suppose she must have one, mustn't she? Doesn't everyone? And there's been no evidence of shared interests either.

She expressed a desire to get together again. That's good, I suppose, since it forced me to think about how much it was appropriate for me to invest in this "opportunity." And, that done, it's forcing me to find a genteel way of telling her no.

All in all this was a rather baffling experience for me. But it was worthwhile because of the processing it's put me through.

I got another (much longer) e-mail today, from a different woman. Yes, from the lady-of-the-imminent-birthday. It was full of intelligence, wit, and insights into the way her mind works, with articulate descriptions of her inner struggles. I read it and realized...I am going to "fall in love" with this woman. (What, y'all thought I already had? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />) Unless something seriously dramatic happens to derail the process, it's practically a done deal. That doesn't mean we're right for each other, of course, but...it's going to make it more difficult for me to date other women.

That is great Gnome, it's awesome to connect with someone like this. But, take it from a veteran of falling for someone too quickly - be careful. While Infatuation is a great feeling, it puts on major rose-colored glasses. Nothing wrong with that, but be aware that you are still dealing with someone you hardly know - and guard your heart.


Yup, as someone who has not been good at multiple dating, I understand. I just can't get beyond superficial banter if I am communicating with several women, maybe I just suck at multitasking. But, like you, I want to get to know the person on more than just the superficial level, and that requires focus.

Good luck with it!

AGG

Yeah GDP, What AGG said! I, too, have BTDT, and recently.

But, how does one guard one's heart from falling in love too fast when you connect with someone so quickly and easily? I've never figured that out.

I am trying very hard to guard my heart.

I've been in situations before where I was so infatuated that I knew my judgment could not be trusted. I don't actually feel that I'm in that position here, though. (Not yet anyway.) I actually had considerably stronger feelings for the lady-of-my-unrequited-love at a time when I knew her less well than I believe I know this woman.

The problem I'm having here is that I can see exactly what I find so attractive about this woman. I understand why I find her attractive. And it's a heck of a lot easier for me to downplay the significance of my irrational feelings than it is for me to argue against my rational understanding. In fact, I suspect that my feelings themselves are not stronger right now because I'm in sort of a state of shock: my heart finds it very difficult to believe that someone like her could actually be real. (And no, I don't mean that in the sense of "someone as perfect as her." She's not perfect, and we both know it. I'm talking about the kind of person she is - the way her heart and mind work, the combination of things that interest her, just...how she makes so much peculiar sense.)

Of course, I am well aware that there is a great deal I do not know about her. I am by no means assuming that we are right for each other (or that I have a real chance to "win" her affections). So at the moment it's sort of a race between my ability to find a showstopper issue with her, and the potential for my feelings to grow to the point where I will no longer be able to recognize such an issue for what it is.

If I "fall in love" I'm still not going to do anything precipitous which I might regret. But I will certainly be opening myself up to a(nother) world of hurt. If that happens...so be it. The risk is worth it, and the only alternative is to run away. I'm not going to do that.

Interesting, AGG. I don't have a problem getting pretty open and personal, or even developing deep affection for multiple women at once. But there can come a time where my heart is not going to listen to any idea except that one particular woman is the particular woman for me. At that point (and I don't believe I'm there yet), I don't really think it's fair to be dating other women.

Personally, I find one of the best ways to "guard your heart" is to allow multiple people to meet your emotional needs. In other words, dating around. Keeping your options open.

I am having trouble understanding this point. It sounds akin to saying "the best way to guard your heart is not to have relationships". Well, as my daughter would say, "duh". That is a given, nothing ventured nothing gained. I think the question was how to guard your heart while being involved with someone - that is the challenge.

I am also confused by the idea of dating around in an effort to have multiple people meet your ENs. Exactly which needs can one expect to have met that way? RC, yes, Conversation, yes, Affection, maybe... But how is that going to meet DS, FS, SF, and most others?

I don't think the idea of any dating is to have all your ENs met, certainly not in multiple dating. You would hope to identify someone who has the potential to meet the ENs, but that is a far cry from trying to have multiple people actually meet your ENs.

I think the point of multiple dating is to see what's out there, to see who you are compatible with, to see who you click with - all without putting all the eggs in one basket prematurely - but it is not about meeting ENs, at least not more than a couple.

AGG

You da man, Gnome, you da playa! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

More power to you if you can do that; I can't have affection for more than one partner. Interest, yes, curiosity, yes, intrigue, yes, but deep affection - nope <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

AGG

AGG and GDP, I’m sorry I wasn’t more clear. I was rushing and should have saved posting for another day.

I certainly didn’t mean to suggest that a person should try to get many people to cook, clean and pay the rent for them. My point was more that by dating a bunch of people in the beginning, you naturally guard your heart. First, others are meeting needs like conversation, recreation, admiration, attractive date, SF in terms of holding hands, kissing and hugs, etc. Second, dating more than one person limits the amount of time you can spend with any one of them, and that will slow things down considerably. BTW, I found kids work equally well in guarding one’s heart and slowing down a relationship

The third way I see is that dating more than one helps keep one’s mind open. Not all your eggs are in one basket yet. Of course, you have to start with an open mind in order to date around, and dating more than one simply keeps it open.

Gnome seems beyond the mind or heart being open to others. He’s said so himself, so for him it would not work well at this point. I guess my point was inappropriate on this thread.

As to how for GDP to guard his heart, my only suggestion is to not spend a lot of time talking to, emailing or seeing the woman. Certainly not 15 hours or more a week. Maybe, ten hours a week total.

I agree with AGG about dating (in the "dating around" or "multiple dating" stage) not being a means of trying to get Emotional Needs met. And I agree with GG that the wisest course of action is to control the pace of the nascent relationship while not neglecting one's social life with other people - including "multiple dating" (if one can find (an)other willing participant(s) in that activity! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />).

The "multiple dating" thing can actually backfire, though, when the contrast between one dating experience and another is significant. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Speaking of which...

I prepared and delivered flowers according to plan. They were well received. Actually, they were very well received. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> (And no, GG, there was no kissing involved. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />)

Um...she's inviting me to dinner at her place (not a romantic assignation <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />). AGG will be disturbed to learn that I am looking forward to the opportunity to meet her dogs. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Yep! Pace is important! When driving through a residential neighborhood, it is important to keep your speed below 65 mph! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

shucks gnome, go to dinner, meet her dogs,and i hope you have a good time!

and hey, drive 66 and see what happens <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

hehe

really, have fun
mlhb

you did flowers huh? too cool gnome, too cool

OMG, what is going on??? These women having us meet their dogs on what, second or third dates??? How forward!!! Well, don't make any hot dog jokes!

AGG

A friend at work has finally found a great date on match.
When he describes their dates, I can only think of the impact on the dogs should they break up. Virtually every date seems to be centered around the dogs, long walks, long runs, etc. for the dogs to exercise. From the outside, it sounds very humorous.
Then again, he does get a dogsitter out of it.

Why do you say that dinner at her place is not a romantic assignation? Is that what she said, or are you inferring that on your own? Sounds pretty darn romatic to me!

Seriously, it seems like things are slowly shifting from "I am involved with someone but would not mind being friends with you" to quite a bit more. Am I right? How cool! Another MB guy sweeps someone off their feet, woo hoo!

Keep us posted, this sounds very intriguing <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. And let me know how the dog meeting went, I need some pointers (or are they setters? collies? retrievers? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />).

AGG

AGG, I am inferring that her invitation is not a romantic assignation on the basis of various things she has said to me. Neither of us is interested in a "whirlwind romance"; we both prefer to take things slowly and consciously.

I do not believe that "I am involved with someone but would not mind being friends with you" was ever her position with me. I believe it was more like "I want to be friends with you and see what develops, but do not expect an exclusive relationship, since I am currently also dating at least one other guy - and by the way I am not sleeping with anyone including you."

Things have evolved, I believe, but at least as of a couple of days ago she was still dating other guys, and I see no evidence that I have "swept her off her feet." I still can't tell whether or not there's any chemistry going on at her end, but...I'm beginning to think there might be a chance. It's a pursuit at this point, and not terribly subtle on my part. She's not overtly encouraging me; but neither does she seem to be running away. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, her level of interest has gone up somewhat.

I don't think it hurt me any that the night before I brought her the flowers, she had had a thoroughly unpleasant first date with someone else from Match.com.

One thing I'm pretty sure of: I've set some standards that are likely to affect how she evaluates other candidates for her affections. And that won't hurt her any. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

What's your definition of "romantic assignation"? (BTW, I'm impressed by the word.) If you mean a tryst with groping and sex, my guess is that's not what she had in mind.

However, as a woman, I wouldn't invite a man to come to my house for dinner unless I trusted him and was interested in him romantically. If I wanted to be friends, I'd invite him to a party at my house and introduce him to my sister.

I don't know what the other women think, but I think either a bottle of wine or, if you don't drink, flowers are nice. Or both. You can pass the flowers off as a "hostess" gift.

As a side note, I'd take the "no whirlwind romance" with a grain of salt. To echo the words of a movie, "No woman wakes up in the morning thinking 'Heaven, I hope a man does NOT sweep me off my feet today.'" We all want to be swept off our feet. The wise among us want are cautious whom we allow near our feet with a broom, but that's entirely different.

So far, I'd say it looks good.

GG, I'm using "romantic assignation" to refer to any pre-arranged meeting in which either party intends or expects behavior which might be considered inappropriate for people who are "just friends" (e.g. kissing <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> ).

She does have male friends over to her house, I know, including those in whom she has no romantic interest. Her attitudes are such that any guy who has a jealous or possessive streak would not do well with her (e.g. she does believe that men and women can be friends!).

By this time, I think it's fair to say that she has a considerable degree of trust in me. (What can I say? She has excellent instincts. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> ) We've already talked about how surprised each of us are that we haven't frightened the other off by now, but...we have both just felt a great deal of freedom to be ourselves with each other.

There will be no wine and no flowers. I'm finding that, strangely enough, my own out-of-step-with-the-norm instincts have been working amazingly well with her. (She's already marveled at how well I seem to "get" her, particularly after so short an acquaintance. As I mentioned before, she's quite a complex creature, and she has learned to accept that most guys have no idea how to handle her. I'm...different. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> )

Honestly, I think she doesn't quite know what to make of me. I know I've got her thinking, though. Perhaps I have swept her off her feet, and it's just such an unfamiliar experience for her that she hasn't recognized it yet. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> A different sort of chemistry than she's used to, if you will.

Or perhaps not. But...it's going to get interesting, I think.

When are you going to her house for dinner? Why no wine or other, thank you for having me over gesture, from you?

This is all sounding positive, BTW. Unless she's a player (that's not just reserved for men is it?) & she likes men surrounding her paying her compliments & pursuing her.

I find people who invite you into their homes to cook for you are not the player type unless they are expecting...ah...something more. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

It's tonight, nams. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> And not to worry, I am bringing something, just not wine or flowers. My take on this is that I'm coming as a friend, not as a suitor or as a formal dinner guest.

She is about as far from being a "playa" (or whatever the female equivalent would be - "coquette" maybe) as it is possible to be. She strikes me as the type who is more likely to chase men off with a baseball bat than to seek their attention. She isn't interested in pretending to be anything she is not, and if you can't accept her for who she is, then you're wasting your time and hers.