LS,

I have never posted to you but have tried to keep up with your thread as much as I can. Sometimes I'm pages behind (as I am right now, I'm actually reading backwards). Anyway, I usually don't agree with MEDC too much but I wholeheartedly agree with him on this.

My FWH is also a police officer so I can relate to that. We were separated during plan A too. I feel I did a spectacular Plan A and it is truly the reason my FWH is home today. My plan B only took a week once I implemented it.

Anyway, I just wanted to let you know you have another person out here praying for you and your family.

Alot of MEDC's suggestions are exactly what I did in my plan A. Those were things OW was not doing. I would make him meals and take them to him or have them ready for him when he dropped off or picked up the kids. I would invite him over for dinner, or breakfast. Sometimes the kids would invite him. I would make sure to remind him of family birthdays, etc. I sent his Mom flowers from all of us for Mothers day. I kept on being his wife, the mother of his kids and his friend. I tried to make the most of every moment but also kept it low key too. I didn't want him to feel anything was too fake or pushy. And I tried not to do anything in a routine. I wanted to keep him guessing, which kept him wanting more.

I will tell you though, (which I know MEDC will not agree with this method but it was the first major turning point after FWH moved out), I seduced my H very early on in our separation. That was the breakthrough, once he got over that mental hurdle (eek!!!) of having sex with his wife the OW never had a shot in he77. But FWH never saw that seduction coming either. He wasn't mentally prepared to turn it down. And, I felt like I sold my soul when I first did this (but am grateful now that I did it anyway) but I had to let FWH believe that it was "just sex". No expectations, no high hopes of reconciliation, no nothing!!! I knew in my heart it was more than that and I knew that that's what he had to tell himself but it hurt like heck somedays to hear it.

I'm just rambling now, probably not making much sense. If you would like to read some of my thread let me know and I will try to link it for you. I didn't post on GQII, I mainly stayed on recovery.

Anyway, you have alot of wonderful people advising you but I just wanted to give my .02 worth.

Here is an idea regarding the whole "panties" issue.

I would respect his wishes that there be no more panties but I would give the panty drop one last grand hurrah.

TM your WH the following message: "I will respect your wishes and stop after today. But I want you to know that they are sad and will miss you."

Draw a sad face with tears on a thong and drop them off at the IL's house. I mean really doll it out like you were at a craft show or something. Put some googly eyes on it.

Maybe I am just a goofball, but I think your WH would get a good chuckle out of that. That way the whole panty thing can end on a good note instead of annoyance. That's just my idea.

Jim the genius

I like it. No wait....I LOVE it.

GREAT way to spin the great panty caper and bring it to a upbeat close.

What can I say? I'm blushing. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Well then i must have misread LG. I apologize.


I am sorry if rehashing all that was painful for you, LS.
you mentioned that you had several relationships before your H.
what about him? and how old was he when you met?

IAD (and MEDC): Just so we are clear...I actually have done ALL of those things that you suggested...and will continue to do so. I have made lots of cookies (both favorite kinds), packed up his favorite meals, invited him to come over (always declined) for a meal, or to watch a movie with the boys, etc. I have told him (as recently as a letter I wrote on Friday) that I am fighting for our marriage and want to move forward as a family and as a couple. I am still the good mom, the devoted daughter-in-law and sister-in-law, aunt, etc.

That's all part of the plan. But also... I NOW recognize that my "Supermom-ness" and Miss Perfect got in the way of being sexy or flirtacious....he would have LOVED that I was sexy and flirtacious before. Just eaten it up. So I'm showing that now....and I'm comfortable with it.

IAD: I'd love to look at your thread. MEDC close your eyes...
.
.
.
.
.
I'd also like the opportunity to have WH cheat on RT with me.

Quote:
I'd also like the opportunity to have WH cheat on RT with me.


As a general rule I don't suggest or support this *however* I do make exceptions and yours may be a case in which I think an exception may be appropriate.

It isn't that it doesn't work. When the exclusivity of the affair relationship is broken...how can that be a bad thing? Nullifies that whole...well now I need to be loyal to THIS relationship since I broke the other one...issue.

My issue is usually with regard to the BS expectations.

For one thing...the STD issue is real. It's been discussed to death and back several times over so no point poking it with a stick...'nuff said.

There is the issue that...he just plain old isn't "in love" with you right now and as such sex with you will likely compare unfavorably and this issue...being not as good or as desireable sexually as the OP haunts ...literally haunts many a BS and makes big waves in recovery.

It could also potentially create an aversion or convince him of what he currrently only suspects...that his feelings for you/lust and desire have gone away.

Knowing what you do about the love bank...YOU know this isn't true...but he does not.

It's a gamble. If he lets you fill that EN as mimis H did...then it will work for you. If he blocks you from meeting that en...it may work against you.

Not only is it a gamble it is a STRONG and demonstrative stance...and will likely have a strong and demonstrative reaction.

Yet..you have demonstarted clear thinking and willingness to take on risks open eyed so I can hardly say for sure that I think it's a bad idea specifically for you.

Again I would suggest the faith in me thread...not only did she execute an axceptional plan A she also in fact DID get her WS to "cheat" on the mistress...I think it may be a good idea to read about her experiences and how she felt about it [she does give an account of doing this] especially in regard to her WSs reactions and feelings about having cheated.

Here is InaDaze's thread she mentioned. She's a Plan A star in her own right.

Click here:
InADaze "What Did I Just Do?"

LS,
my Plan A also included SF with WH. it met his EN, but when OW found out...it drove her nuts! there were LB's all over the place about "how could he cheat on her?" LOL.
it was not enough, however, and I had to go to Plan B. but I had caused enough "trouble in paradise" in Plan A, that once in Plan B, the A kind've fizzled. once she "had" him all to herself, she could not forgive him for cheating on her. stupid OW
just another perspective...
cgw

It's a shame that your self respect has dropped so low that you would feel this way. You are inviting yourself to become the OW to his A and I don't agree that anyone can do that while having respect for themselves. I am sorry you feel this way Lilsis.

I will however continue to wish you well.

MEDC,

Are you saying that you respect the exclusivity of the affair relationship?

I disagree with this.

I agree that a spouse may be setting themselves up to FEEL like an OP..but they can not actually BE an OP because they are the spouse and they have every right in the world to seek out SF with their partner.

I think it's DANGEROUS and could potentially be very HARMFULL...I would never ever suggest it because I really believe the risks outweigh the potential benefits...but none of these reasons legitimize or recognize the affair relationship as valid or exclusive.

I understand where you are coming from here...I agree with you 99.9999999% but that other trillionth of a percent exists because the rightfull owner to the sexual exclusivity does have the option to excercise that right and in no way becomes an OP themselves...THAT my friend is playing to the WS script...not maintaining reality against the current.

Not at all. I don't respect anything about that relationship.
I think it shows a lack of self respect to sleep with someone that is treating you and your family this way. I also think... it shows that lack of self respect because he is screwing the OW too.
Forgetting about the STD issue here (and Mimi has done a good job helping quite a few forget that issue with some of her advice in the past) it is just a matter of degrading oneself and sleeping with ANYONE that is screwing someone else. If she tells me today her H is not doing that anymore... I say have at it.... use the whole box of condoms as I said in the past.
But again... there should be no need to risk self respect and health to win back a cheating spouse! JMHO.

WH is one year younger than me. He had long-term girlfriends here and there in college and after, but I think mine were more serious, like the 2-3 year variety in HS and college.

RE: the SF
As much as I would like for things to go that way, he will never go for it. He just won't. I know it. That would be pushing it too far....he would see me as pathetic if I did something to push it. He can't even let me kiss him on the cheek without grimmacing like I'm stepping on his toe. He is SOOO skittish around me. Believe me, it makes me feel like a failure to know this.

And besides....he's too much in love to have sex with his wife. Ouch and double ouch.

Get this (okay, this hurts to recount, so I'm only going to do it once)...shortly after D-day I asked him if he had ever cheated on me before. He turned toward me immediately (we were in the car), whipped off his sunglasses so he could look me in the eye and said vehemently, "No! The thought makes me--" and stops.
"The thought makes you what?"
"Nevermind."
"No...tell me NOW. What?"
"The thought makes me sick."
I exploded...major LB. This is a HIGHLY intelligent man...and the lack of logic boggled my mind. It was like talking to a crazy person...which of course, it is, but this was only days post-d-day and I kept thinking that just the right word would snap him out of crazy-land.

So you see...the thought of cheating on RT now "makes him sick."

Can we not go here anymore? It makes me sad to think how hopeless it all seems....and to remember that.

I have so little respect for the A relationship... that I don't even like to call it a relationship... it is an abomination in my eyes.

It's not hopeless... he will see this scum bag, no good piece of trash, flea ridden ****** for who she is. It will come around.

well, i certainly understand how you would feel that way.
Good God, how long has it been since you had sex? (no need to answer that) I see no shame in FEELING that.

And,
the idea of creating a riff between WH and OW seems like icing on the cake, if you ask me.

I like Noodles post, LS.....you have demonstrated clear thinking and an impressive ability to take risks.

Just please be careful about the sex though....i know waht i would do, but I don't have a clear idea of how your H views sex and YOU right now so I don't want to suggest anything.

MEDC,

Unless we keep the big picture [firmly] in mind...pretty much ALL of plan A is a direct affront to the BS self respect.

I completely agree with you that *I* would feel complete self loathing having sex with a WS. Or anyone who didn't want and love me.

Nevertheless...not everyone processes sexual stimulus the way that I [and presumably you] do.

I recognize that it could be a potential weapon and part of plan A to drive a wedge as surely as any LB fest you can bring about.

There are people who do not feel remotely compromised in doing this and for them [std issues aside...ever the germaphobe I just have to bring it up] it is an option...not a source of shame.

Good grief I think BSs have enough misplaced shame on their platters.

just so you know

your WH's reaction is more typical than atypical

when I was still blissfully ignorant my H was a WH, I asked him what he would do if he ever fell in love with another woman & began an affair

his response was "I am not that kind of man. I would never do that to you."

... meanwhile, back at the ranch, he was doing exactly that

waywards have their own kind of stupid

so, as crummy as this was, it is not exceptional to hear

OK sweetie?

PS ... we were humping like bunnies the entire time my H was having his A ... so the "Sex or no sex" issue is usually pretty moot with me

Pep

Very classy statement. I wouldn't consider that sex...I would consider that degrading myself.