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You sound argumentative with me in your post..

Maybe I'm reading that wrong, Sis...

Is there ANGER there?

And if so, why?

TAKE WHAT I SAY OR LEAVE IT..it doesn't much matter to me, Sis...It's ALL GOOD...
You are reading it wrong, and I am sorry for that...I tried to say it in a way that did not sound argumentative. I'm putting out my questions and concerns in an honest way.

So it is not anger you are hearing...not at all...more desperate attempt to understand what I am missing...sort of like, oh, no! Did my MB playbook come without a critically important chapter?

All morning, I was asking for clarification on what part of Plan A I was not executing correctly...or rather that I have not ACKNOWLEDGED that I executed incorrectly (Lord knows I've made some whopper mistakes). Shelly cleared that up, I believe...the ashes from the fire comment, heavy R talk, drama. If you have something to add, I'd be grateful to hear...

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LS --
If you have not already done so, I recommend that you fill out, to the best of your ability, the Emotional Needs questionnaire for your H. Determine what you think are his top 3-4 needs. Then write down from your H's POV how he best likes to have those needs met, NOT how you think they should be met. Then write down 3 things for each of those top ENs that you can do to meet those needs in the manner you best believe he would like them met. Then spend your energy on those to the best of your ability and to the extent he will allow you to meet them. If SF is one of those top needs, just skip that for now, since he won't allow you to meet that particular need. There's also a Lovebusting Q that is EVERY bit as important that you should also do, because until you stop busting, it will be extremely hard to meet those ENs. These are things Dr. H told me and had me do.

This will give you something concrete to do that will help clarify in your mind the sorts of things you should be focusing on. I sense you feel a need to *DO* something, and this will help. It will also help you divert you from some of the "what did I do wrong" self-talk that you're doing right now. It's best to calm that beast.

Hang in there,
Shellybird

excellent idea.
IF you can really pinpoint his top 5 ENs and identify what would be LBs to him, you will find it easier to stick to your plan A....you are correct...it is important to stick to the plan, but everybody's situation is a little different....every WS likes his needs met in a different way.

tell us more about how things were when you first started dating.
you said you didn't bat your eylashes...i suspected as much.
i don't see your H falling for an eyelash batter.....i don't see a guy like MEDC falling for 1 either.
(not that they wouldn't feel flattered by it though.....and mimi, I mena no disrespect to YOU when i say that....I happen to be a bit of an eyelash batter too.)


so, LS... how DID YOU flirt w/ him....what did he respond to?
what made him feel admired?

did you ever get His Needs/Her Needs?

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i don't see a guy like MEDC falling for 1 either


very astute! I fall for the passionate about life, thinker, communicator that feels good about herself type. She can bat her eyelashes at me after we know each other better! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I would say no Paris Hilton's for me!

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My opinion only:

Purpose of Plan A -- fill EN's, avoid LB's.
Basically make yourself a better choice than the OW.

Your letter is an attempt to reach him.

No matter how many times we tell you he is unreachable.
It seems like you still think something you SAY is gonna matter to him. That you have the power to break through to him.

So I think the letter fulfilled a need of YOURS...not his.

I worry that the letter will not fill any EN's of his. He could very likely take it as a disrespectful judgement -- that you are superior to him in your way of thinking. (WS you used to be great, but you're not anymore, but could be again if you do things my way...)
Or he will feel guilty. No matter what, I only see him feeling BAD after reading your letter.

There was absolutely NOTHING my BS could do that would alter my course. No words, No gestures. Nothing.
The affair had to fail. It was not up to my BS to succeed -- the OM had to fail.

Your role is to change what you can, demonstrate it consistantly, stop all negative behavior -- then wait for her to fail.

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i don't see a guy like MEDC falling for 1 either


very astute! I fall for the passionate about life, thinker, communicator that feels good about herself type. She can bat her eyelashes at me after we know each other better! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
I would say no Paris Hilton's for me!

did you say you were a cop or did i imagine that?

for some reason, i feel like Ls's H is a little bit like you in some ways......that's why i don't like to discount your reactions in her situation.
no, you and her H are not identical....but, as i read the thread there is something i pick up on LS's H that makes me feel he wants his ENS met in a different way than mimi's H or LG.
it may be the same ENs...admiration/respect....he just likes it ment different.
I think he NEEDS to feel respected.....he knows he does not even respect himself right now.......no wonder he is so conflicted!

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Lexx says it EXACLTY for me...answers the questions you were asking me.


I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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She can bat her eyelashes at me after we know each other better!


Let's stop it with the batting eyelashes!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

My "makeup stylist" on Saturday had on FAKE ONES..and you thought I was bad... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

AND I LOOK NOTHING LIKE PARIS HILTON, BTW... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />


I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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Remember he's a WS..his life experience is now colored/affected by his R with RT..

What if she is the one that has him looking at movies now and interpreting their meaning?

See what I mean?

You can't overinterpet that kind of stuff from a WH...

No LBing..meet his ENs..prepare PLAN B..

Simple..but not easy....

Unfortunately the NEW HUSBAND I have now is partly of function of what his life was like..GOOD AND BAD... when he was having an A with her for more than 2 years....

He eats different kinds of food..listens to different kinds of music...for MANY DIFFERENT REASONS...


I made it happen..a joyful life..filled with peace, contentment, happiness and fabulocity.
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Printing out lex's post and sticking it on my bedside table...

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sis

(i know i'm not an expert but i hope you read this post carefully because these are some things that i think are important for you right now.)

your thread right now reminds me of how mine was at one point.

people who cared about ME and my desire to save my marriage, with conflicting ideas and thoughts about what was best for me........

i felt trapped in the middle, trying to please everyone and there was no way to do that because their advice contradicted each other.

so i'd make a choice sometimes......"go with my gut" as you've said

and then come here and be afraid to admit what i did because i knew some would critisize me and i'd be afraid no one would support me

i'd give my reasons for what i did but i felt sometimes that no-one was HEARING what i was saying.

and that was hard for me when i believed that this was the one place where i had people who DID UNDERSTAND.

no-one else even thought my marriage was worth saving! so everone here really mattered to me

and then i spent much time second guessing myself.....i still wonder if i had done something differently if things would be different

so when this kept happening, I started calling Jennifer Harley. Some of the things that she suggested where more similar to MY thinking and DIFFERENT than the thinking of many here.

some people were surprised at some of her suggestions because she kept telling me to "put out a hand" to my H and just as in the quote you posted from the book, she helped me to put my feelings and hopes into e-mails to him-sometimes they were short, sometimes longer.

at different times....some people went so far as to question if i understood Jennifer correctly or if i had told her the "entire truth" because they couldn't believe her suggestions to me

but she was recommending thing for ME based upon everything about MY situation.....and she is the expert! she helped write the book.

When i expressed to her that some people here were questioning the advice she gave to me, she told me that she also had wondered if she would be giving me the BEST advice and so before some of my sessions, she had discussed my situation with her father to get his input.

some people here understood that i was going with what was suggested and supported that.....

others here stopped posting to me because they didn't believe in what i was doing. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> they would only support me if i did exactly what they suggested even if everyone else including jennifer suggested otherwise. in fact, they became rude and argumentative with me and other posters. i'm glad they stopped posting because they were no longer helpful.

just telling you this so you realize it happens. let it go when it does.

did i do what was right? the jury is still out on that. but i did the BEST i could by following the advice of the EXPERT.

you are NOT going to please everyone. Jennifer told me "you have to remember that everyone on the web-site is trying to recommend what they think is best for you because they care about you. But they are no different that you are. They have lived through this and have read posts and are just telling you what they believe is best."

so in my opinion, you're at a point where you need some reinforcement from the harley's

Sis.....the letter has been given....it's something you felt that you had to do.....for you to be at peace with yourself

i wish everyone would let it go, for your sake, because it's already done

lemon once said to me about something i was second guessing or debating with everyone......it's not going to make a big difference to a WS in the big scheme of things....it's like trying to empty the ocean with a teaspoon (or something like that....and i can't BELIEVE i'm quoting lemon because he and i were seldom in agreement)

i don't think the letter has done any harm....your H did not react negaitively to it

now, move on to a continued plan A.....remembering what i said in my earlier post

we can see that your nearing the end of your ability to have the strenght to continue the wonderful plan A that you've been doing

it's emotionally exhausting...that's why there is a limit to how long anyone should do it

Please allow others here to help you to gage when you should begin to prepare for your plan B

it really helps to have the views of others...i thought that i was doing FINE and could keep going

i STILL wonder if i should have continued my plan A

but there came a point when others saw what i didn't....and ihad to listen to them

i had given all that i could and taken all that i could before i would undo the good i had done and also start to lose some of the love i had for my h because i was getting nothing in return but hurting

i started LOVEBUSTING....i started making choices that were NOT in my best interest

i don't think you are there yet

i don't see that your H is hurting you ON PURPOSE or even being worse than before....he may even be reacting better


but sis....i do see that your hopes are up and you are wanting more....fast...and when you're not getting it....the pain and dissapointment are too much because you are emotionally drained

and that's when you're more prone to let your gaurd down and love bust

you've got to make a plan NOW...so you can keep making the BEST choices to fight this war

the letter.......good idea for YOU and maybe for you H...time may tell us...who knows...but LET IT GO

plan for your next interaction with him

go back and re-read your earlier post....and plan to give him that same kind of plan A attention you had been

light, playful, and powerful

you're a plan A queen around here!

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eav:
Thank you. Thank you.

Your post really speaks to me. I'm off to do something with my boys, but I wanted to let you know how much it meant to me, how very much I appreciate hearing that you have felt as I do.

(((((eav)))))

LS

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did you say you were a cop or did i imagine that?


you did not imagine that. Yes, I was.

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LS,

Do you think you'll need to end Plan A sooner than you thought?

If so when?

Do you know who will be your intermediaries, yet?

Do you want to start working on your Plan B letter?

~ Marsh

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MEDC:

I will not debate this, cuz it serves no purpose,

This makes me think all the more that your H will respond to a much stronger approach from you RIGHT NOW. The iron is hot in my opinion. Not so much a plan A and not so much a Plan FU... but something that says... I need you here NOW. It's time for YOU (wh) to make a choice. And if he goes with her... then Plan B.

You were recommending that LilSis force the issue with WH.

Good solid advice. Much has flowed from that. Some good, some bad. Most, I believe is good.


She wrote her letter, and has it in her head, like Schoolbus said, and its there, ready to go.

Some of the ramifications of this, go against MB Principles, Plan A/Etc.

But she is LilSis, Trying her best. On the ground. Dealing with a WH.

She will recover from this weekend. Just like she has the other things.

And slowly but surely, her WH is starting to crack.

Should LilSis get back on the "True" Plan A.

Yes. And she should call the Harley's and get the real scoop.

Today.

Because we can only converse back and forth via Bulletin Board. Not face to face.

LG

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my opinion is

plan A

while planning for B.....WHEN the time is right

no ultimatives and no forcing him to choose

what plan is that from?

i think that would undo her GREAT plan A

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LilSis,

So when are you calling the Harleys? I'm not sure there could be a better time than NOW!!!

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......Trying to get through a number of pages here! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Just wanted to say that I loved, loved, LOVED Pep's writings about our Takers yesterday. And noodle's anger/LB stuff, and the need for us to circumvent opportunities that lead us to behave in such a manner.

As to my personal answer about *what* *precisely* you've done lately that might be a bit off...Who could say it better than how Lexy said it. Not me, that's for sure.

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Its the ol lovebank thing Lilsis.

Its harder for you to make deposits and easier for you to make withdrawals.

Every negative further justifies his choices, and withdraws at a much faster rate than when your marriage is in a normal state. And relationship talks are a major drain on a WS.

So for all the positive you built up -- obviously to the point where he was balking and fighting you; you easily wipe out with one angry outburst.


I am really looking forward to hearing what Dr Harley has to say.

Marsh has a good point (along with about 5,000 good points I've already read today)! Why don't we work on setting up your plan B so that it doesn't come out of the blue and smack you when you least expect it? (that advice contingent on what Dr Harley has to say..lol!)


Remember not only to say the right thing in the right place, but far more difficult still, to leave unsaid the wrong thing at the tempting moment. ~Benjamin Franklin~
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Sis, regarding the EN questionnaire, you may discover that you WERE meeting his EN's and the A still happened. All it takes is a very cunning and highly manipulative OW with claws in deep to infiltrate your marriage and cause severe damage.

Whatever plan you decide to go with now, I am sure you will do what is best for you and WH. Go with what seems to be working for your situation. SHarley told me to back off Plan A. There was too much cake eating comfort for FWH and too much damage was being done to me. SH was not ready for me to go into Plan B quite yet at that time. He wanted WH to counsel with him and while I was working that angle something burst in me and I went into Plan FU and that was the turning point. Sometimes the “standard” plan A (if there really is a standard) is not appropriate to your particular situation. Every situation is different. For my situation, a major wake up call was needed for FWH to realize what he was doing and what he was losing. It doesn’t happen overnight either. And I can attest to the fact that the longer you Plan A, the more respect you lose for WH. Recovery is hard.

As a side note, could be that RT is playing the very available divorcee right now…maybe all the cruisers you have seen parked at the coffee shop are NOT your WH. Maybe the entire force has her number by now. Thrilling thought.

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Sis,

Just wanted you to know I'm still here and thinking of you. I don't have too much to say that the others haven't already said. I'm kind of in a funk right now myself (just found out more of the details)so I don't want to bring it on your thread.

Eav's post was wonderful and I couldn't have said it better myself. I know others don't agree with the following your gut talk but when it comes down to different people telling you different things sometimes you just have to rely on yourself for the answer.

I continued plan A for an extremely long time against many others advice. But I knew I had to, it wasn't anything I could explain it was just something I new was right for my situation. And SH agreed that in my situation I needed to keep up with plan A as long as I could stand it. I agree with everyone else, calling SH will help you get back on track in your own mind. You need to have clarity in what you are doing b/c if you don't WH will get you to LB all over the place. You need to know what you are doing and believe in it 100%.

Here I said I wasn't going to say much and I still managed to ramble on... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

CC1 said:

"And I can attest to the fact that the longer you Plan A, the more respect you lose for WH. Recovery is hard."

Truer words were never spoken. Recovery is definately hard, those details are a killer.


None are more unjust in their judgments of others than those who have a high opinion of themselves.
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I was in Plan A for 9 months before I found out WW was pregnant with OM baby. I fell hard, but tried to keep Plan A going. Two weeks later, I couldn't take the blatant disresepect under my own roof, in the same home as my children.

It was bad for another month or two. She "lost" the baby.

Then, we tried again - Plan A'd for another 4 months before I realized the A was still going on. She moved out. I tried to Plan B - was unsuccessful due to blah blah blah (not being strong enough).

Her rolling around with OM right after moving out with my kids under her rented roof was too much for me to handle. D was final a few months after that. I couldn't take it anymore.

4 months later, she KINDA wants back in - but on her terms (trial balloons with no real commitment). We even had SF a few times - which in hindsight probably wasn't healthy for me, but I would have still done it...and, it did eventually kill R with OM shortly after. That was good for everyone.

Fast forward 3 months, to the present. I'm frign exhausted. She's still foggy. She's still struggling. I'm sure there's withdrawal. The point is this:

I didn't have a formal Plan A with boundaries and a well executed Plan B. So these words hit me:

Quote
And I can attest to the fact that the longer you Plan A, the more respect you lose for WH. Recovery is hard.

And now? 2 years later? I resent her. I'm starting to hate her.

Don't get to this point. It's sad. My WS may actually want to reconcile this time -- but I'm just too wasted...

blue


frankly frank, you should be more frank.
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