Sis,

If he viewed the letter as a major LB, he would have let you know by now. He hasn't been one to hold back on letting you know (think "mudflaps"!).

I believe the words in the letter will come from his own lips at some point. Listen for them. (You say what you are thinking about, and think about what you talk about. Just happens that way, is all....) When he does use your words, you will then know how he responded to the letter - it will be in how he uses your own words, sort of. If he does make reference to the words in the letter, or somehow use them in a phrase to you, let me know. I might be able to shed some light there.

Communication of your thoughts, in an honest and heartfelt manner, with loving intentions, is never wrong, LilSis. Don't second guess yourself. Whether or not the letter has a deep impact, or ricochets off of him, you have spoken your truth. He has had his opportunity to hear you. And you can say to yourself that you did try everything you felt you needed to try.

If you never sent the letter, you would second guess yourself as to whether or not it would have made a difference..........it is our very nature, no?

If the letter makes him feel mad, or hurtful, or sad, or remorseful, or angry, or whatever, then so be it. In any case, if it even for one second gives him pause, then maybe there is merit in it.

If he totally disregards it, there was merit in having your chance to say what you needed to say.

Either way, there is merit.

We can all armchair quarterback. Whether the receiver catches the pass or not is on WH. Somehow, I believe in your gut, LilSis, because I'm not there to know him, and you are. You look in his eyes. No one else here can do that, or make that claim. You know him IRL.


What LG has said just seems to resonate with me. I had almost wanted you to write a letter like he advises about a week ago. You might want to give that some consideration.

But first, call the Harleys.

SB

But first, call the Harleys.

This, LilSis, is the one piece of advice you keep getting...from EVERYONE.

Why the hesitation in this? I keep seeing you gloss over it.

I've been trying to get my breath a bit this afternoon...went for a long walk with the boys to feed the ducks and enjoy God's creation. I missed church yesterday with all my personal drama...so after we returned from our walk I went upstairs to sit down under a warm blanket and read some Henri Nouwen. I love his work; he's a Catholic priest and his writings are very accessible...but so full of depth. MIL introduced me.

I TMd WH while we were out..."How much are you earning on this fine spring day?" (It's a holiday, and he always gets a kick out of figuring out how much he's paid for doing the same old stuff...and I suspect he would have noticed, as I did, the way it smells like spring today) As we were walking to the park, there was a cruiser parked in front of the coffee shop, RT's van "hidden" in the back. (Remember, she has to "park out of sight" now because she is so afraid of me. Good grief, anyone with two eyes can see her van, but I'm sure it makes for a good sob story)

cc1: yes, other cops do frequent there..and she is all about the attention...gross. My neighbor is going there for lunch tomorrow (against her will) and she is wondering if she might "find a hair" in her sandwich. The last time my neighbor went there, she said it was disgusting how RT flirts with every guy in the place. Makes for better tips, I guess.

Anyway, after reading my book and trying to get a little centered, I came back down, put a casserole in the oven, and checked back here. I am always comforted by the number of people who check in and give words of encouragement.

Eav, again, let me say how much your words moved me.

Marsh: Yep. Let's get crackin on the PBL. I want it at the ready. I'll start pulling up samples from other threads. If anyone has a really great one to recommend, please share. Also...suggestions for an intermediary...someone who is totally MY advocate, someone who is more neutral, things to consider that might not be obvious??...feedback from those who have used the intermediary would be great.

The rest of y'all: I am calling the Harleys tomorrow AM to set up an appt. hopefuly for Weds. WH has the boys.

Since cc, Daze, and MrB all mentioned it...Plan A and resentment. I don't know if it's resentment so much at the Plan A itself...but I have been thinking A LOT about the two years pre-d-day. Just this afternoon, thinking about how I would be at work, earning money for our family, and he's off doin' her. Then he'd come and pick me up after my day was over. Or how he'd go for a "run" while I cleaned up dinner dishes and got the kids off to bed. Not so much what's going on NOW as what went on THEN...the LIES. All the lies on top of lies on top of lies..

Yes...I don't know if the resentment is BUILDING due to Plan A so much as that it's always BEEN there, always IS there. Maybe it's just the lower energy due to all the Plan A stuff that causes it to rise to the surface...

Does this ring true with any of you??

Sounds like maybe Daze has been finding out some painful details...?? As if what you DO know isn't painful enough... ((((Daze))))

I need to go back and read some more Nouwen. I am losing my center, my solid footing. It's directly related to being less focused on my spirituality, I can tell. I'm trying to control, and I need to let go.

Let go of the resentment about RT at the coffee shop, let go of the pain of seeing the cruiser out front, let go of feeling like I can DO something to change things that are not under my control. I need to eat some chocolate and watch some decent TV (24's on tonight). I just need to give this a rest and BE. Let God do some work...I'm probably just getting in his way!

LilSis:

Stay with Plan R:

Rest and relaxation.

Tommorrow will dawn with the same sun.

Thankfully, all the triggers of last week, WERE last week.

LG

hey sweetie!

thinkin' bout you tonight....let it all go...r-e-l-a-x!!

i am feeling crappy in a different way........MY DD is trying to pick her HS classes and she is upset because she feels like she hasn't followed the instuctions TO THE letter..........I am upset because i don't follow ANYTING to the letter...that's my H's expertise....I am the queen of IMPROVISE!

and, interestingly enough...i think of you,LS......and that is so neat in many ways.
I feel like you are learning to IMPROVISE and to me that just means you are learning something new......broadening yourself....and I know I need to stretch myself in the opposite direction. it's not easy.

and YOU are doing quite well!!

I needed to hear this, SB...it articulates what I have been feeling. This is ME, the letter was authentic ME. I do not regret giving him the letter, although I have felt that I have had to defend that today...that's fine! I needed to do it, because I heard something (or THOUGHT I heard something) in him that would be receptive, and because I wanted to share my feelings with him.

Your blessing, SB, offered me permission to do something that I probably wanted to do anyway. Even if it is NOT perfect, by the book Plan A, I've never been perfect or by the book. (CLEARLY!) And I am no longer ashamed to admit it!

Below is LG's recommendation for a second letter. While many folks are out there preparing their arguments for why NOT to do this, can you tell me more about why this resonates with you at this time? Any suggestions for specifics: length, when to deliver, etc. ?

Thank you!!

And with that...I just read LG and nia's posts, which came in while I was typing the above. Commence Plan R.

I'm going to hang out with my boys and LET GO!

((((MBers))))

Well Lilsis;
Hopefully you are away relaxing and won't read this for awhile....

I am starting to feel like the downer on your thread.

In your above post --


This is what I was trying to say before. This letter wasn't Plan A -- it was all about you and your needs. It did nothing to meet HIS emotional needs. There is no admiration in this letter (which is the only EN I could imagine you were going for with this).

I feel like I'm repeating myself here -- maybe a better way to approach this is for you to answer: "What emotional need of WS did your letter meet?"

I'm glad to hear that you are calling for an appointment. Please just slow down enough to hear what Steve has to say before sending your next planned letter.

I've not read all of this..BUT A SECOND LETTER???

I'm with you Lexx...

This has taken an unfortunate turn...

I'm glad Sis is calling Steve Harley...

So isn't it called a PLAN B LETTER?

There is no such thing as PLAN A LETTERS..

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I'm surprised you said this, Daze.

She needs to try to follow the advice that best fits with MB CONCEPTS and HER PLAN A..NOT WHAT MAKES HER FEEL GOOD...

We do Sis a real disservice with this, IMO...



AND this is not necessarily TRUE...

It was Steve Harley who told Sis to continue with PLAN A...

LG:

Why are you also not recommending strict adherence to MBers? I'm surprised at you, too. Didn't you go to the MB Weekend. Doesn't this run contrary to what the Harleys recommend for folks to do?

I think this is a disservice to Sis when she is vulnerable and needs our help with MBer's concepts and day to day application of the PLANs...

My RECOVERY resulted from ON THE GROUND..DEALING WITH A WH..STRICTLY ADHERING TO THE PLANS...well if I fell off the horse I GOT BACK ON BOARD WITH THE PLANS..NOT MY OWN WAY..which would have resulted in FAILURE...

Schoolbus and all..you guys are ALL making an ASSUMPTION that he would even read the letter..

He could have left it unopened or thrown it away..

I think you guys are starting to romanticize this or something...

Ok..I'm getting caught up..I'm finished..I'm so disappointed in the turn this has taken..

I LOOK FORWARD TO HEARING WHAT STEVE HAS TO SAY ABOUT THE LETTER....and LETTERs....and following Sis' gut...and whatever...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I am concerned that the wheels are coming off the cart where Plan A is concerned. There is so much conflicting advice. Lil Sis, It is obviously your choice which advice you take. I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers. This has to be terribly difficult for you. That is why I think it is so important that you focus less on not letting anyone down or doing a perfect Plan A, and more on realistically taking your own temperature to gauge if you are feeling up to continuing Plan A. If you are really at the point of feeling overwhelmed and emotionally wrought please relay that to SH. Once you give SH the full run down of the recent events and fill him in on how you are doing emotionally he just may suggest something altogether different than continuing Plan A. I would just like to add, it is not seen as failure or a let down" to be emotionally spent. No one knows exactly what will happen, none of us can predict if your WH will ever see the light, but I am certain that we all want you to be well regardless of the outcome of your sitch.

As far as the letters are concerned, do not be surprised if WH shares those letters with RT. I say this because it is a possibility. You can not trust a WH while he is entrenched in an A. This gives your enemy (RT) much more intel than she needs to have. Just consider that please.
I would be careful not to romanticize the words coming from a WH (making reference to the movie and the symbolism from Saving Private Ryan that he relayed to you)..I am just afraid that reading too much into what a WH says leads to more disappointment and emotional turmoil for the BS. I am saying all of this just to give you some things to consider. I know the choice is yours, and we all have to respect that.

just because you think " YOUR own way" would have resulted in a failure does not mean that other people who don't play it EXACTLY by the book don't have a shot at getting it right.

I hesitate to count myself because my situation did not include a specific OW.....but I am sure there are others who salvaged their marriage who didn't follow THE exact plan..and some who followed all the rules and still divorced.....heck,people interpret EXACTLY differently.

I am willing to bet that Steve Harley has slightly different suggestions for different situations.
nobody situation is EXACTLY the same.

I'm sorry, you misunderstood what I was saying. What I was trying to tell Sis is that when all of the advice gets overwhelming on here and she feels like she is being pulled in many different directions ultimately she needs to go with what SHE feels is right for her situation. That doesn't mean she should go with what makes her feel good, but what she feels is best for her situation. There's a difference.

I don't agree with the letter Sis sent, but I know posters didn't necessarily agree with everything I did. Sometimes I felt pulled in many different directions, was afraid of letting everyone down and especially afraid of making the wrong choice. Those instances were more overwhelming than the actual situation itself. During those times, I just had to look deep within myself and decide what I needed to do for myself, my children and my M. Noone else can decide that for her.

Sis will figure it out, she is one he77 of a smart lady.

But Sis, besides calling SH you really need to read the books. I don't know how you are even getting through this without reading SAA daily. Your WH's actions and words would make alot more sense. You will be better equipped to handle it. I honestly could not do a proper plan A until I had read those books. I lB'd quite frequently until I came to fully understand what I was doing and why. And when my WH would say something new I would refer back to SAA.

I know you have the support of a few here to write a second letter. I'm fearful that you are diminishing the effect of the PBL with every stroke of your pen. I asked my FWH if my PBL would have had the same effect if I had written him previous letters, he didn't hesitate. He said no, one of the reasons it hit him so hard was that I had never given him a letter through all of that. He felt that instant fear that he was losing me the moment I handed him the envelope. You just gave him a letter, a second one followed so closely behind seems extremely redundant. But it is ultimately your decision, I will support you whatever you decide.

We give you advice the only way we know how. Based on our own experiences. For the most part, all of our situations have all of the same basic details, and our WS's have all of the same basic characteristics. Yes, your situation and your H are unique to you, but there is a reason Harley's formulas work. B/c we are no longer dealing with our H's, we are dealing with a WH. And when you get down to it, they all pretty much follow the same script. I didn't believe it at first but the more I read the more I could actually foresee what my FWH was going to do and say.

It would actually blow my mind at first b/c I tried so hard to believe that my FWH was different. I thought our situation was different. You know what, it wasn't and it still isn't. Even in recovery they follow the same basic path.

I urge you to drop whatever you are doing tomorrow and get SAA. Make it your #1 priority.

Very good visual there, Lexxy. I agree w/you as well Mimi. Dr. H pounded it into us that our feelings are just... feelings. They can and do change -- thus the MB approach -- change the behavior, the feelings will follow. Does that make any sense?

LS -- I tried to say the same thing. I think no big harm with the first letter, but it's important that you understand that this was about YOU and what YOU needed to do, it was not to meet any identified needs of WH. It was trying to TALK him into feeling something. Spending your energy on how you ACT and BEHAVE is much more powerful. Get back to focusing on Plan A. Figure out how BEHAVE in ways that will specifically meet HIS highest needs. The questionnaire is a good start and road map.

If there's a chance, just a SMALL chance, that your letter made him roll his eyes, I fear a second letter will do the same, only more, and by the time you send a Plan B letter, well, you've lost any chance for the impact you need. A second letter is just MORE relationship-talk, heavy, the stuff a number of us think you need to quit for a while.

I think LG's messages are good, but I'm not sure another letter is the right delivery. I suggest that instead of debating this or feeling you have to defend that here, you hold it for Dr. H's advice. That way, you won't get upset by people here giving you conflicting advice or feel like we're beating you up.

I dare say 99 percent of us would certainly defer to the good doctor.

24! Heroes is my escape of choice these days. Hope you and the boys enjoyed your day.

Take care,
Shellybird

I am quite sure that Lilsis either earlier today or yesterday quoted directly from SAA that letters during Plan A were an effective means of communication.

Mimi,

I do agree with you on this. I saw the difference in my FWH when I started doing a strict plan A. It was night and day. I spent 5 months doing a close semblance of plan A before I even knew what it was. My FWH was responsive but still distant. The tide didn't really start to turn until I started posting on here and doing a fairly strict plan A. Once I read SAA and started posting on here I LB'd very little.

My only fear for Sis is that she is really starting to get overwhelmed with all of the conflicting advice. Ultimately Mimi she is the one that has to make her choices. We can tell her what we think, we can relate our own stories, we can hope she does what we think is right but we can't make her do it.

I do hope she talks to SH and he will be able to get her on the right path for her.

I do believe in MB principles, I know I have this place to thank for the current state of my M. I feel confidant that Lilsis will be a success story here too one day.

Mimi... the operative word in your post is is "MY." That was your recovery... this is Lilsis's. You very frequently use absolutes in your speak..I would ask you to look at your posts and notice that if possible. You do not KNOW how things will go... you may think or feel a certain way... but you do not know. Heck, you can't even be sure your situation would have turned out differently had you varied from MB here and there...you feel it, you think it... but you don't know it.
Nobody here is doing Lilsis a "disservice" by offering suggestions and help. They are offering an opinion based on what they are seeing. You have claimed this entire thread that LG is just the person to give advice... yet when it differs from what you would have him say... it is a disservice. This is really not about you Mimi... it is about Lilsis and I think we should support her right to make decisions based on the information provided to her.