Here are my Threads from previous posts.
I was advised to move them here. Sorry for how long this is:

11/27/06
I feel like i've been riding a coaster. We have a bland relationship, not good, not terrible, simply not much to it, no real romance, no intimacy, not much sharing. Wife told me last night that she thinks we should start talking divorce. Start discussing the option. She definately knows that she does not love me but considers me her friend. She knows there is something more out there for her and that i should want to be with someone who truly loves me. Says she is willing to stay in our marriage for the sake of the kids. I knew our relationship was not good and i didn't put forth as much effort as i should. But i know i love my wife and to hear her version of our relationship is a hopeless tale. She has never loved me romantically, she has always known that she did not love me. She wanted to get married and has tried to love me for 13 years but she knows it is hopeless. I am currently swimming in self doubt and self pity.

What are my options? Stay in it even though she does not love me? Get divorced even though i do not want it and i don' believe in it?

NEXT - 11/30/06

Wife & I were High School Sweethearts. Seperated during college. Began dating again after college. Dated 3 months - talking about marriage. Became pregnant. That was 12 years ago. Today is three kids (11, 9, & 8) later.

Two years ago we went through very rough times - wife wanted Divorce. Agreed to go to Retrovaille. Stuck it out but never worked on the marriage. Both of us just got lazy.

I have never treated my wife very well sexually. Never met her needs, always more concerned with my own. I have issues with my childhood, Pornography was readily available in my house growing up. I never had a good understanding of women or Romantic Love. I've done a terrible job being Romantic with my wife.

She told me several nights ago that she is done - wants out but is willing to stay in marriage for sake of children. Says she does not love me, never has loved me and knows she never will no matter what.

Since then - I have made a huge effort at just holding conversation every night. I have decided to start from scratch that if i forget about the sex part and focus on meeting her need for conversation, i might be able to get us back on track.

Just last night after we had been talking for almost two hours - she leans forward and starts kissing me - which she almost never - ever does.

How am i to interpret what is going on here? It seems like her words and actions are not in line.

How should i proceed? Any practical advice. I am hesitant to bring up counseling because in the past it has been an issue for her.

NEXT – 12/01/06

Roller Coaster evening, here are wifes comments:
Want divorce.
Cant stand the thought of kissing me, having sex, touching me in any way. Eew, Eew, Eew, it grosses me out.
Loves me as a brother.
Is scared of what will happen.
Doesn't want anyone to know.
Wants me to still live there and help raise the kids.
Doesnt' want me there.
Doesnt want me coming home ever again.
Counseling is a great idea.
Counseling will never work.
Wants to love me.
Knows she will never love me.
Sorry for hurting me.
Doesn't ever want to marry again.
Scared of other women in her childrens lives.
Can't i just stay there and we can live in seperate bedrooms and raise our children.
Wants a divorce.
Counseling is a great idea.
Wants a divorce
Will go to counseling.
Wants a divorce.
Counseling is good.
Counseling will never work.

Ping. Pong. Ping. Pong. Ping. Pong........

NEXT – 12/12/06

My wife's Ping Pong match continues.

Last week it was "I want a divorce."

Yesterday it was "you think i want to get divorced?" To which i am thinking, uh... i think that's what you told me.
I can't get a read on this, meanwhile here is what i do know:

Wife does not want to attend counseling until after the holidays. She wants us to see seperate counselors and then go to a third counselor together. When i get home from a counseling appt. (since i have already started) she asks how it went. If i mention having discussed our marital issues she becomes very upset saying that it I should be working on my individual issues and not our marriage. (I want to bang my head against a wall)

Wife does not want any physical contact whatsoever. She actually cringes if i try to kiss her, but wants me to give her backrubs constantly.

She is very "cordial" to me, but cruel. Example: today is our wedding anniversary, I wished her happy anniversary and tried to Kiss her to which she responded by ducking her head and laughing "oh yeah, 12 years ago we were headed to the courthouse." The courthouse is a reference to the fact that we were first married in a courthouse as we were pregnant and the church would not marry us until five years later. I remind her that we were married in the church on our fifth wedding anniversary to which she replies "that was just an act for our family and freinds". Does anyone else think this is Cruel?

I am getting discouraged. I'm starting to think that i should just give her what she wants... a divorce.

Can someone please pick me up?

NEXT – 12/19/06

I posted this yesterday on another thread.

Last night led to more confusion.

Wife got home from five days out of town. We started talking and it was very open and honest and calm. Neither of us raised voices or anything like that. We both said how we felt and we talked about it. HOWEVER – when we started talking about counseling my wife had this to say “No one and nothing will ever be able to talk me into loving you. I will never love you, but I am willing to stay married to you and just be friends. If I didn’t think people would blame me I would divorce you tomorrow. I can’t deal with people blaming me. Actually I’m fine with this arraignment because I never have to make up an excuse for not wanting to have sex. Now you know that I never want to have sex with you again. If you can live with that, then I’m great.”

I asked what was wrong with trying to start our relationship from scratch. Trying to build a new relationship? Her response was “you didn’t hear anything I just said. You don’t listen to me. I have been trying for twelve years to be in love with you and I am not. I will never be in love with you.”

THEN – we go to bed and she asks me what I’m thinking – I tell her that I am saying my prayers to myself and she says she want to join in. We hold hands and say our prayers together which is something she has never wanted to do in the past – she would always say “my prayers are between me and God”.

Frustrated and Confused.

I have to be honest. I am starting to think about getting out.


Then last night i just couldn't stay there. We talked and wife would just not let up. She saw one of my articles on Divorce and after reading the first couple paragraphs she puts it down and tells me that it is just one persons opinion and that there were many other people who were much happier after divorce. I asked her where she got her information, because the articles she had just dismissed came from scientific research conducted over a 25 year span. She responded that she had her own way of researching but said she did not owe me any of that information. I asked her a simple question "are you telling me that you are going to go through counselling just so that i will hang in there til after Christmas?" She sat there and said nothing. So I asked her again "is this real? Are you seriously going to a Counselor or have you already made up your mind?" She sat ther and said nothing. I said "Please just tell me the truth"

"No i haven't made up my mind. You just don't have any faith in me. I am doing what is best for our family. Divorce does not mean we won't still do things as a family. We'll be a family no matter what happens."

I couldn't stay there. My anxiety level was so high i was having a panic attack. I told her that i didn't like the person i was becoming around her. I said i needed to be away from her so i could clear my head.

When i am around her i am just lost. I can't think straight. I dwell on the darn thing. I just don't like myself.

Obviously what is done is done. I can't go back there now and frankly she wouldn't want me back there. I am tired of being the one on the end of the string.

Any thoughts.

It sounds like your wife is struggling with her feelings right now. She wants out of the relationship, but doesn't feel like she can do it. She wants you to be the bad guy and end the relationship. What you need to understand is why. Usually women will finally want to leave when they find someone else is meeting their needs and want to get closer to that person. Does your wife have a male "friend" that she is close to? She may think that he is her only path to happiness and may have given up on you. Don't worry, these things can be overcome. The first thing you need to do is fill out the EN and LB questionnaires that Dr. Harley has a link to at the top of the page. If she refuses, fill it out how you think she would respond. Start meeting her ENs and avoid LBs. Right now if you want to save your marriage you are going to have to put your needs on hold. Read up on all of the Q&A articles on this website, and read His Needs, Her Needs. This will give you a roadmap on what you need to do to save your marriage even if it is by yourself. I would recommend counseling with the Harleys if you can afford it. Be very CAREFUL about the MC you chose because a bad one can be very detrimental to your M. Pick a MC that is PRO-MARRIAGE! When you call them up, ask them that. Right now you shouldn't argue about how your wife feels, but rather her tell her you are committed to making this the best marriage possible. If she says she doesn't love you or will never have sex with you again, just say that you are sorry she feels that way, and you want to make things better.