Dear Coughlin:

I give up. I'm no longer gonna play the game of life. I will stick to myself and my fantasy world. I'm sorry everybody for bothering you with all my problems but and I never meant to hurt anybody--just trying to make the best of a bad situation. I've always lived this way.

I have come late into this thread, so my advice is unsolicited, I'm sure. However, you may have hit the nail more or less on the head with your statement above.

I think you should consider sticking to yourself for a while and learning to like yourself as you grow into the person you want to be. This is sometimes a long process. It took me two years of NO DATING after my divorce to reach this stage (of course, it involved lots of reading, writing, thinking and lonely times).

None of us really need anybody to make us into a better, more fulfilled person. However, that's what happens when we learn to be content with our silence, our independence, our thoughts, and ourselves. When you are in that state, perhaps after a few months (or longer) of learning and walking alone, the best woman for you will come into your life. It may be someone you already know, but my hunch is it will be someone brand new.

Why don't you take your advice above? Just don't live in a fantasy world; live in reality.

Best,

Mark

Coughlin,

Stay here and talk with us.Lord knows I've been venting a bit today <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> but the whole time we have all been posting to you was because we saw the writing on the wall.It's darn frustrating to see someone make the mistakes we all saw coming down the pike.And keep doing it! Like going to the party.Bad idea.

I am glad that you are leaving your job.It may hurt and you may have liked it but the alternative was to risk keep seeing this OG and have your heart torn out again and again.

NO CONTACT is the way to go to get over her.You can't have a do-over and the reason it has to be over is because of who the OG is .

You CAN be happy.But you need to be on your own for a while as I have said before and other's.No one deserves this kind of pain.But it's there and there are ways to heal from it and get away from it.Being on your own will give you some perspective about who you are and what is best for you.Yes dating other's may have been helpful but in the end people are getting hurt because you are not clear on what it is you need and want.Not really.Behavior like sleeping with the woman on the first date and repeatedly getting in contact with the OG is not healthy behavior.You need to stop seeing your life in terms of who you are dating.You should not be dependent on that.jmo

Hang in there.Keep talking.Getting all that emotion out helps.

Coughlin, the holidays are a rough time for people who are in pain. I've noticed that the holidays seem to be rougher on people who not only aren't content in their lives but also are not yet doing the personal healing work that would lead them to be content. I firmly believe that is where the solution lies, Coughlin--in a personal recovery plan. If you do that, then next year's holidays will be much different for you--because YOU will be different, more recovered, more healed, more content. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Right now, it seems like you need support to get through this holiday season. There is value in your pain, Coughlin, even as intense as it is right now. Our pain can tell us what needs tending to, what needs to be healed. I agree with the poster who advised you to take your posts to a therapist who can help you formulate a recovery plan and guide you while you carry out your recovery plan.

None of us does this alone, Coughlin. My heart was warmed when I checked this board and saw the responses you have gotten. I hope that you can recognize the genuine caring these people have for you.

In our pain, it can seem like people are being harsh and not recognizing the depth of our pain--but it's people who KNOW that pain who are reaching out to you and sharing what it takes for you to move through and out of that pain. None of us does it alone, Coughlin, but we all have to DO certain things in order to recover, heal, and be content with ourselves and our lives.

It's in the DOING, Coughlin. Please start with doing what one poster advised--call your therapist NOW. If your therapist is not available, call a crisis line.

Instead of choosing an instant gratification fix (which starts another round of intense pain and turmoil for you), today you can choose to COMMIT TO DOING WHAT IT TAKES to heal.

I'll keep checking this thread throughout the day to see what you've chosen to do. I'm hoping, hoping, hoping that you choose to enlist the aid of professionals during this time of crisis.

American Beauty, that was the nicest offer I have ever had to stay here and talk for awhile. Greengables, I'm seeing my counselor tonight. Leftcoastmark, I guess I will be hibernating for the winter with the exception of work. I am leaving my second job and the one I still have( the one that pays the bills) is the one where OG works. My plan is to not ask her any questions and not offer any answers and be neutral around her. I don't have to spend too much time there but I will have to be there more than I have been.

Good, Coughlin. Don't sugarcoat this. I'm worried about you, and I'd feel better knowing you were getting professional help. We're not trained by anything other than our own personal experience.

Coughlin,

Those that post here really do care you know.It may seem we are hard on people but sometimes that's what is needed,a firmer approach.Not mean spirited but firm.

So you'll still be at the same job with OG,oh well,but, I do hope you make attempts to stay away once and for all.It's clear that every time you have some interaction with OG it hurts you,eventually.

Well,I'm off to work.Stay strong!! and Good luck with your counseling session.

By the way, going to that party might have been a bad idea but it did give me some of my power back. I came home and cried so hard and then the next day I hear how she asked about me, probably after a few drinks. She actually told me recently that she took my phone # off of her contact list so she wouldn't call me when she's out. The funny thing is that I listed her # as "Just say no"!

How could somebody say the things she said and wanna go out for lunch and get me a gift for christmas? I really wonder is she acts this way with all her guy friends. I can't wait til Valentines day is over for some reason.

I'll tell you one thing, for the past two years, I've always thought it was going to be my year. Next year, My goal is to look and feel great about who I am. I'm gonna live in the gym and kick a55! at work. I'm 35 1/2 years old and I'm gonna be in the best shape and make the most money I ever made.

"Next year, My goal is to look and feel great about who I am."

Now you're talkin"! The next step is the "walkin'"! That is why I posted to you a few posts back--like others posted to me when I was struggling with what you're struggling with now.

It starts with NC. Starts. Without NC, there can be no start. NC is necessary to be able to start doing the rest of what we need to do.

For me, NC was probably the most difficult thing for me to successfully DO. The hardest part for me was to divert my thoughts, and that was a fulltime job in the beginning. If I couldn't divert my thoughts within ONE MINUTE, then I chose something to DO from a list I had written (with help from others).

Do you think that starting your own list would help you too?

Can I ask you guys a question? I had a good counselling session yesterday. She really is good except that I have only been sharing so much about what's been going on. I probably told you guys more. She told me that in order to get rid of the fantasy of getting back together with my ex, I should think about what happened and how it would just repeat itself unless both of us changed.

For example, she would be soo into me in the beginning, not intoroduce me to her friends or hang out with her guy friends without me and it would bug me to the point of arguing with her about it. She would blame me for not wanting to introduce me to her friends cause we were unstable. She would be less into me and I would pursue her to the point of being unhealthy. Here's the thing, I realize that I am responsible for my actions--bit of a stalker/controller. I wasn't able to communicate things effectively to resolve our issues but on the other end, she didn't introduce me to her friends because she knew it would bother me that they were "handsy and flirtacious" with her.

My question is what kind of guy would put up with that and why would a girl be comfortable with that? The only reason I'm asking is because it just occurred to me that I could never be comfortable with that and it hurts to know that someone could. Am I wrong here? Who could accept that?

I'm thinking back to something that mlhb said about not being comfortable hanging out with people that age and the thing is that I saw her as being more mature than most and the first fight we had was when she asked me to come to this college reunion event because she wanted people to know she was with someone so they wouldn't be flirtacious with her and I basically told her no, I trust that you can handle them and I'm not gonna go and be your body guard while I'm trying to fit in. I think I gave her too much credit and me, not so much.

Well, Coughlin, you are finally asking the right questions. Healthy people don’t flirt with their friends. If her male friends flirt with her, it’s because she flirts back. Period. Men, like women, hate rejection. If she didn’t flirt, they’d soon stop.

Why would someone want to be with someone who flirted like that? Heck if I know. I’m not even attracted to gorgeous men because I can’t stand others going crazy for them.

I’m not sure why you are hurt that she’s like this. Are you hurt that you weren’t a strong enough reason for her to change? Are you hurt that you are probably one of many? Really, I don’t think it’s so much a rejection of you, as she’s just not able to have a relationship. You should read Dr. Bryn Collins book Emotional Unavailability. It’s very good, and this girl could be right out of one of the case studies.

Getting in great shape and making money is nice. But, it’s more like a condiment. Do you really want your life to be about working out, looking good and having lots of money? I can’t believe you do. That’s not a life, that’s a cartoon. Why not do something else to help yourself grow? Read more books, or a different type of book. Volunteer. Learn a new skill or hobby. Travel to somewhere outside the country (for vacation, not escape from life). Make three new friends. Or if you’re more like me, make one new friend.

I really believe if you get a life, life will get you a mate. Or life will be so fabulous, you decide not to have mate.

My question is what kind of guy would put up with that and why would a girl be comfortable with that? The only reason I'm asking is because it just occurred to me that I could never be comfortable with that and it hurts to know that someone could. Am I wrong here? Who could accept that?

She was like that because she was never in a "committed" relationship with you. That is how she saw it. You all just hung out together and had occasional sex...kinda like a _____ buddy.

How can you expect your therapist to help you if you only tell her so much?

She isn't more mature than most either. She is behaving like the typical unattached female who is playing the field. You were seeing her for what you wanted her to be ...not for how she actually was.

committed

Coughlin,

Two points: first, I am wondering if you have the right therapist. I would strongly advise you to look for a cognitive therapist, whereas yours sounds more like a psychoanalysis-oriented type. The difference is that the former type stops you from beating your head against the wall by telling you "Stop beating your head against the wall", while the psychoanalytical one will say "Well, let's examine the deeper reasons for you wanting to beat your head against the wall".

Both have their place, but I think you need to stop the "poor" behaviors first, and need a therapist to help you do that. Trying to understand the deeper reasons for why you got tangled with the psycho OG is OK too, but not as pressing. Anyway, I am just afraid that the therapist you have will make you do things you shouldn't do - wasn't she the one who advised you to go to the party with the OG to "face your demons"? Or am I wrong?

Second, on flirting. We had a coworker here years ago; a stunning, tall, lean, built-like-a-brickhouse blonde. She flirted with everyone, from coworkers to strangers. She overdid it so much, it was almost a joke amongst us, because no one took her seriously. She'd flirt with me, and I'd laugh it off, 'cause we were friends.

Then she started dating another coworker, a friend of mine. I advised him against it, and she did put him through he11 and back - at one point, we all went on a ski trip without the girl's BF, and she actually had a guy share a bed with her - I doubt anything happened, but she certainly talked it up as if something did, ugh.

Well, the BF kept seeing her, and eventually they got married and they have been married for many years now. Apparently he did not care about her flirting, and so it somehow worked for him.

Now, knowing me, I could not be with a woman who was such a flirt. From what I see, you also do not like your partner to flirt. So, my point is that some guys don't care about it, others do. If you do, then don't date a flirt.

Hope this helped.

AGG

Coughlin, you are getting excellent advice--very similar to the advice that was given to me, advice that has proven to be excellent advice in my life.

Please re-read Greengables' post daily for the next two or three weeks because there is only so much that gets through to us when we are consumed with pain and uncertainty. I'll bet that you will grasp more and more of her very excellent advice with each passing day.

These are a few of the things that Greengables advised that worked very well for me....

---Read more books, or a different type of book.

---Volunteer (Meals on Wheels takes one hour a week)

---Learn a new skill or hobby (or one that you've enjoyed in the past but haven't done for a while)

---Make three new friends


Greengables hit the nail on the head with this:

"I really believe if you get a life, life will get you a mate. Or life will be so fabulous, you decide not to have mate."


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