Marsh,
You are right, I did hold on to all of the facts pointing to "maybe it was meant to be". Sometimes I go back & forth with that. When I see how tough it is for him to come back to me it just makes me lean towards that way again & again.

Maybe neither one of us took the "marriage" as serious as we should have. Maybe after living together & playing house for so many years e just figured that it was the next step. I know that I didn't need to be married, it was more of a push from him. I was very content with our situation & didn't need marriage to convince myself of that. Marriage of course made us commit yet one more time, gave him health insurance & gave everyone a piece of mind that we were not living in sin anymore!

Oh my gosh...I've read how sometimes people will repeat a painful behavior that one of their parents did in order to try to heal themselves. Maybe this is him! Yikes, that is a little scary.

So let me understand something. It's ok to come back to the BS b/c it's the right thing to do. Even if the WS & the OP are "meant to be together". Eventually the WS will realize that coming back was the right thing to do & everything else falls into place? Right? How do we explain the situations that "work out", WS that leave & begin relationships with OP and they work! They work for a lifetime? Are they then "ok" to have left the M? And is their A justified then?

I really believe that my WH has lots of deep dark issues to work out, this was just the iceberg that tried to sink our ship. I'm here for the long hall, heck I have already been through so much so far, I'd be a fool to throw in the towel now.

One more thing. During a conversation around the holidays w/ my WH, he said that I looked like a fool. He said that after I was sitting here telling him how much I supported him even after all of the lies & deceit. I told him that I didn't care what anyone thought, friends, family, etc. I was his W here to support her H and let them think what they want. Do you think that he felt bad that maybe people will look at me like that? Or/ do you think that maybe OW has made those comments & he is more afraid of what she thinks? It was pretty sad. Here I thought that he would feel like a bigger fool than me, I didn't have the A. LOL

Thanks Marsh. Lots of Love! K

Hi MF,



It's a weird thing w/ belief's. We have so many of them in our heads that when we come across a new belief that challanges an old one, we STILL have a hard time letting go of our old one.

There are plenty of people here who have had A's and they are the first ones to admit that the A was about them, not about their spouse, and yet you still choose to believe your H's A was about what a crappy W you were. And Karen still believes her H's A was 'meant to be'. Why do you girls pile on MORE pain on top of what you have already suffered?

Why not choose to believe the A was about THEM? Something that was/is wrong inside them?

You could cut your pain in half simply by believing this.

Would you consider picking up this book?

http://www.amazon.com/Four-Agreements-Practical-Personal-Freedom/dp/1878424319

I think it might really help you.



Yeah, you need to heal first. He needs to concentrate on helping you heal. I agree w/ you.

Did you read Mcbecca's "false recovery thread"? I think her BH feels alot like you do. If you get a chance read through it.

Here it is...

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...e=0&fpart=1



You don't feel defective around other men, b/c they haven't betrayed you.

It must be a great temptation to have a revenge A. You feel like crap about yourself, and an A of your own must seem like an easy way to make yourself feel better. But, it's an illusion. An A will never give you what you think it will. But, you know that.

There's no easy way through recovery. No short cuts. Just onward and upwards. Through this mess.



How come you're not in MC?

He probably can't tell you what about him caused him to have this A, b/c he doesn't know himself. But, I'd wager a bet that it had alot to do w/ what he believes about himself.

Please see about getting that book I suggested. It really helped me understand how it was my beliefs that were hurting me. Changing them has been life altering.



No, we're not.

It's weird, but I don't really think we needed to.

I went to IC. Because, it was me who had gotten myself all tangled up. It was all my fault. And I have made most of the changes.



You too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

~ Marsh

Hi Karen,

It's so strange to see you here on the weekend! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I'm glad you're hooked up at home now.

Any chance of getting your H here?



It's tough for him b/c it is VERY much like an addiction. Like I said before, the feelings I had for OM were not like any "in love" feelings I had before. There were EXTREME. Not b/c we were 'meant to be', but b/c it was a sick fantasy addiction.



Have you read what Dr. Harley said about living together?

You both made a commit to each other. And you had a child together. These are the reasons you both were meant to be together.



We all have issues from our childhood that aren't resolved. The good news is, he's willing to get help for his.

And when a person really wants to find help, they do.

Ask and it shall be given to you.



The stats for A's to last are dismal. I think 97% of all A's end w/in 2 years! And of the 3% that go on to marry, 75% of those end in D.

Those are pretty crummy odds.

For the tiny percent that beat those odds, I still don't believe they were 'meant to be'. I don't believe any sin was 'meant to be'.



I doubt his remarks had anything to do w/ what the OW said to him.

They sound like thoughts that he would have if YOU had cheated on him. He's trying to put himself in your shoes. And HE wouldn't want people looking at him like a fool for having stayed w/ a woman who cheated on him. That'd be my guess. He probably was wondering how you felt about this and this was his way of asking you indirectly.



You're RIGHT! There is no reason for you to feel foolish. None.

But, for many men, they don't want other people to look down on them w/ disrespect for staying w/ a woman who cheated on them. And I think that's where he may have been coming from.

Love ya.

~ Marsh

Marsh, see, the "disconnect" comes when the FWS and the BS believes or admits certain things....that are different. And then to double, triple, or quadruple that, the FWS begins and continues to use all of the BSs "faults" against them, and we can't undestand the other person's POV, at all. When he's TELLING me these things, how do I NOT believe him???? I wish I knew.... :

Sure, my mind can "tell" me that I was ok, I was a good wife and mom to our kids, but again ~ it's just getting my mind and my heart on the "same page".

You are such a role model. Maybe I'm wrong, you seems like you "got it" from the very beginning. You knew this wasn't right, and you worked from the get-go to make your M good again.

A lot of FWSs don't get that. And I'm hesitant to post this here because I know MFsFWH reads here daily, but I would bet a ton of money he that he doesn't see it that way. His "words" may say that, but ~ he's already pointed our pretty clearly that our "lack of good comminication skills" are what got us here.,

Ok, sorry to wimp out but I'm EXHASTED. Gonna finish up responding to you first thing in the a.m.,,,,OK?

Goodnight, Marsh' Goodnight karen. Talk to both in the morn.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

~MF

I've dealt with this same emotion over the years since my FWW A. Every man I know who's WW was in an A except me ended up getting a D. They found out and split. There was no attempt at reconcilliation. None. I've often wondered is that what I should have done? I always felt proud that an A would not happen to us because we had such a good M. Well Guess what, Turns out to be "Foolish Pride" because then the A did happen to us.

After d-day I was faced with do I stay or do I go. My first instinct like my friends was to run away fast and not look back. My thought was after having waited a year for thing to end I can finally get out.

But after thinking about things I realized that we had a history, a son and no one could take that away from us. An Interloper with no history with my W except that of being a philanderer was going to do that. At first my thought was to stay for my son. We would work on things and see how it would go.

I decided somewhere along the line that since I couldn't change what had happened the only really logical thing to do was to try to put it behind us and move on into the future. I don't mean sweeping things under the rug but rather, deal with the questions and problems etc. But after all that find a way to move on because the M and family are what is important in LIFE.

We have been continually working on things and us for all these years since the big A. Yeah the thoughts still come and go. Unfortunately "The Black Days of the A" too has become a part of our history. But it is just that, history, and that will not stop us from having a our happy M and family after all.

Why do I not feel like a Fool? Of All the men I know who have been in this sitch' I'm the only one who's M survived. Who's the Fool?

Ok, I'm back <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I'm gonna go back and quote the same thing again, because as I've had time to think some more about this, more thoughts have come...

This question has been bugging me all night...you're right, why AM I choosing to believe his A is about me? Is it a dumb reason to say because he keeps insinuating it? I mean, he doesn't come right out and say it anymore, but man, when he was all fogged out, he sure did!! Ok, I know that I'm projecting here, but I'm going to say it anyways. He reads here, so maybe he'll jump in and say something about it, or maybe not...

He has said a few times that he knows it's all about him ~ his mistake, his problem, he was wrong. What I think is happening though is that he tried bringing up all of my past failures and how "hard" I was to talk to, to live with, etc. So to me it sounds like justification, or blaming. Maybe I'm reading too much into it, I could be, but that's how it's making me feel. I know I shouldn't do that, but it kinda feels out of my control. It gets better when he stops the finger pointing, but I think that's hard for HIM because it wants to get some of this stuff all "cleared up", and focus on Fixing The Marriage. I just can't handle it right now. I know I was hard to talk to. How many more times/ways does he wanna say it? He was way hard to talk to too!! It works so much better for us to just devote time and energy into communicating more freely than talking about how "bad" it was. You know? We are getting better at it, but we still screw it up a lot.

I checked out that book ~ it looks like a great one. I have about 3 others that I've ordered that I'd like to get to first, but I bookmarked this one and I will get to it....thanks for the suggestion. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />



Yeah, I read it, in fact I posted on it too. And that's WHY I posted ~ because I totally do understand how her BH is feeling. I hope it helped her to get a better grasp of what she can do to help him through this phase. My H is doing a much better job now of helping me through, I think he's finally "getting" it, that he really really really needs to start meeting my needs for a while. Because I am SO tired of working my butt off to meet his and get nothing in return. And in fact, as much as the FWSs probably hate to hear this, but at this point in the game (we're 8 months from dday now), they need to act like they are totally, hopelessly in love with us. Because I know for me, I felt my love for my H dying as time crept by and he just sat there and let me meet his needs without even trying to meet mine. That is a huge LBer!

Oh, and I'm not sure if I posted this to her, but it's also a huge LBer to just sort of roll over and play dead when/if we ever mention D. Like, geez, I fought like a warrior for YOU while you were having an A, and then while you were all fogged out. I hardly even mentioned D ~ I acted like and proved to you that I thought you were worth it, that our M and family are worth it, by not giving up!! By saying "yeah, you're right, BS, maybe we should D. I can understand how you'd feel that way. I screwed up and I know it", is kinda like saying "I don't have it in me to fight for you. You aren't important enough to me for me to put up a good fight for you". I hope that makes sense to any FWS who reads this!!


Yeah, don't worry, I have no desire to have a revenge A. My life sucks bad enough as it is. I'm too practical to have one anyways. Plus my conscience just won't let me!

We're not in MC because H didn't like it. We were in MC the whole time he was having the A (which I now know was a huge waste of time and money), and for about a month or so after dday. But I'm insisting on it now. I'm bummed we weren't in it this whole time, I think we could have gotten alot more accomplished. I'm looking for a good MC now.

I agree that he probably doesn't know why he did it. Like I said, he's tried blaming our "communication issues", but as time goes on I think he's really seeing that that's a crock of sh**. EVERY M has "communication issues, and not every M deals with an A as a result.

I'm guessing low self esteem? Oh, also, I'm not very good at giving him Admiration (tied strongly to Acceptance) as an EN, and I think it's a high need of his. He isn't sure if that's true, but apparently that's what OW gave him since most of their relationship was a long distance EA...and we all know that OW are pros at giving Admiration.

So I've gotta figure out how to give him more admiration, but that sure is a tough one after he committed adultery!! But I'm working on it...thinking about how I can be better at it anyways.



Wow, good for you Marsh!! I think that besides MC, both my H and I could use IC. I know he's not ready for that though...so we'll start with MC and see how that goes.

~MF

Hi JKG,



This perspective seems to mostly belong to men. Women don't think about looking like a fool. Which is why I told Karen I thought her H's comment came from him, not OW. It's a male thing, right?



Now you can be proud that you faced the worst possible thing one can face in a M and you survived it. It wasn't easy, but you did it. Having survived it must make your M even more precious to you, right?



You have no, regrets, huh?

Does posting here help heal your hurt, JKG?

~ Marsh

Hi MF!



LOL

I'm glad it bugged you. It was meant to stir you up some. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />



Calling a reason you have dumb, is a DJ, MF. Please don't DJ yourself.



Ok, good. Stick w/ what he says here for a sec..

Do you believe he means this?

Do YOU believe the A was ALL about him?

B/c THAT's really what matters here...what YOU believe.

What if someone said you had three heads? And not only said it, but believed it too. Would you believe that? Of course not. You believe/know you only have one head. You'd dismiss that person's truth as not true. And you'd go along your merry way.

Let's just say for the sake of argument, that your H thinks the A was YOUR fault. (I don't believe he does, b/c he's said he doesn't) But, let's say that he does. Does that change the truth of the situation?

Here's the thing, MF, YOU believe the A was your fault.

YOU blame yourself for it.

Intellectually, I believe you know it wasn't your fault, but in your heart you don't believe it. Why is that?


When your H criticizes you, you take those criticisms and run them through your "I'm to blame for the A b/c I'm not a good wife" filter in your mind. And it feeds that belief you have that you'd like to go away and then you get angry. B/c who wants to keep believing that they are a crummy wife?

You are DJing yourself all over the place, MF.

YOU.

Why?

Why choose to believe that about yourself? His criticisms then sound to you "... like justification, or blaming."

But are they?

Is he REALLY justifying and blaming you?

Or does it just FEEL as if he is?



Yes, I think this IS what he is trying to do too.



Well, I agree, there's no point in complaining about the past. The present is what matters most.



Be patient w/ one another, k? It takes time to break old patterns. Just watch your DJ's. The ones you tell yourself AND the ones you tell one another. Stop them as soon as you think them.



It's amazing how differently the BS and WS view the same situation. Thank God we have both on here to explain both sides.

I think one of the reasons a WS doesn't fight is b/c they are so weighed down w/ guilt and shame that they feel they deserve to be left or not loved by the BS. It isn't that they don't think YOU're not worth it, it's that they don't think THEY are.

I'm glad you all could explain your side and feelings to Becca, b/c like I said both sides need to understand the other.



Now you see, I'd lie awake at night trying to figure out why I did it. I don't understand how any WS doesn't want to find the answer to this question.


Well, yes, and that comes from what he believes and from how much he DJ's himself and others.



Now, here you go again...blaming YOURSELF for his A!

It's one thing to admit you need to figure out how you can meet his need for admiration and acceptance, but it's another thing to blame yourself for his A.

Every FWS has to figure out how they can meet their own ENs. Not through other people, but through THEMSELVES. If they want others to accept and admire them, then that means they THEMSELVES are sucking their acceptance and admiration banks dry. They do this by constantly DJing themselves. I'm so stupid, I'm not lovable, I'm such a loser why did I do that?ect....They DJ themselves like crazy and empty out their own banks and then they look to others to fill them back up.

BS do this too.

The best way to help yourself is by giving up all DJ's. And choose to be respectful. Respectful to others AND to yourselves!

Move the book I recommended to the top of your list. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

~ Marsh

Marsh,
You are too good in your' probing, questioning. You get me to start really thinking and sometimes that's not so good.

No regrets about staying! I know how much my W really loves me now and I her.

I think I regret not having been aware enough to stop or prevent the A from happening.
I regret that I have carried this pain around all this time and have not been able to get it to go away. It is like it is part of who I am now unfortuately.

I still work hard to not allow it to control our life though. It is something I can control if I work at it. Just wish It wasn't something I had to control.

By my controlling these emotions we have been able to move forward with our lives. We still have issues that come up from time to time. But we have survived as a family. Now it's pretty much just the two of us.

Reading here has helped a great deal especially in learning that the A was not about me in any way. This was always something I never understood and it really bothered me. What had I done that caused the A.

The knowledge that since the A wasn't anything to do with me then the total disregard and lack of concern of the WS for the BS then comes to the front. Just a viscious cylce of questioning. These issues and never getting them
resolved is what always plays out in my mind. UGH!!!!!

I thought about starting a thread of my own to get input from all of you. But the thought of that is bothersome too. Who wants to know what an Old F##t like me is bothered with. Since I am old enough to be your father and this happened so long ago why is he still thinking about this. He should be long over it.

I've heard it said that you keep stuff like this hanging around because; you enjoy the pain, pain is better than apathy, it is easier than dealing with real intimacy, it is useful to you in some way and a thousand other such reasons.
I still don't know what it is.

I'm really starting to ramble sorry.

Just getting this stuff out may be helpful since I've never talked with anyone other than my W about any of this before. Just me reading and thinking has been the only way I've ahad to deal with it. Never had a way to vent before without hurting the one I most care about.

What if the FWS's major EN's are triggers for the BS?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />




Your W's total lack of concern for you was still about HER. Not you. She was only concerned w/ her needs getting met. HER HER HER.

If you had been Superman, it wouldn't have stopped her from reaching outside herself to try to fix something that was missing inside HER.



Ok, well, first of all, if YOU don't start a thread for yourself, then I WILL!!!

I'm giving you till sundown tomorrow, Cowboy...then I'm starting one for you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Next, I want you to look at all the DJ's you gave yourself in that quote!!!

Please don't do that to yourself, JKG.

It hurts me when I think of you quietly suffering all these years by yourself. I think it's way over due for you to talk through all your thoughts and feelings.

Every single person here knows how devastating A's are. No one is going to think your pain isn't reasonable. Except maybe YOU. Do you think you're feelings are unreasonable given the time that has passed since your W's A? Are you DJing yourself b/c you think you should be over this by now?

Ouch!

Don't pile pain on top of your pain.



Start a thread for yourself and vent away!

~ Marsh

Like SF?

Can you be more specific?

~ Marsh

Well, I was a marathon runner pre-A, and met OW thru a running message board. Running to me was an EN for admiration...the fact that I can set a goal like this and accomplish it, the finish line, the comraderie, everything. Now, basically if I mention the "R" word, then we have problems...I am told that this is something that MF will never be able to accept and I need to accept the fact that I will never run again.
Also, Photography, another EN for amdiration for me...people would like my work, I would get compliments and comments, etc at a popular photo sharing board...then it was discovered that OW would leave comments on my photos as well, so I closed my acct totally and my $1000 camera has been sitting idle for 2 months..

I know these things sound trivial to most, but to me, they were/are HUGE but are both HUGE triggers for MF

Marsh ~ (and anyone else who wants to chime in here)~

It might be helpful to go over the Recovery board and read our thread titled something like POJA and PORH ~ need advice. That describes in better detail the issues and triggers regarding running ~ and then for the photography website, check out our thread called OW is PSYCHO.

If you're interested, that is:)

Karen ~ sorry again about the threadjack. Hope you don't mind too much...

~MF

MF,
Don't worry about the threadjack...we are getting a lot of hits here; this is good & things are being resolved. I'll chime in when I need something but for now I'll just sit back & watch for a bit. Things are fine right now anyhow. WH will have his first IC on Tuesday so more info to follow I'm sure. He has been in a pretty good mood lately; still bothers me a bit, but I have trust in him right now, more than I'm sure he can even imagine; certainly more than I can! he/he
Thread on....K

JKG

Do you think that my WH feels bad for me? Maybe b/c he "knows" all of the lies that he created just to have his A & now he has the time to sit back & see exactly what a fool he made me out to be. All of the nights he said he was "alone", all of the nights he had an excuse for not calling his W; I had way too much trust in him & he did play me for a fool. Especially when he came all 3 times, I gave him back enough trust to get things started again & I was deceived over & over.

I don't feel foolish right now. I would however feel really foolish if this ever bit me again! I'm done handing out trust to people that just don't deserve it!

How do you turn it around & explain his thinking on this? There are many times over the past year that my WH would have LOVED for me to give up on him! He would have LOVED to have me make his decisions for him & I just couldn't do it; the fool that I may be. In the end I will have given EVERYTHING possible to save my M & my Family and Lord Willing, my WH will come to his senses soon & realize that this is it for him!, I am who he wants to grow old with!

Good for you for sticking with you W & proving to everyone else out there & she was worth the fight & your M was worth saving! That's takes a lot of guts! We too had the ideal M, at least that is exactly what I thought it was, shame on me too!

Heck I'm not even into R as far as I'm concerned & frankly I have a very difficult time dealing with all of the emotions & flash backs to the "black days"; I'm sure that there is more in store for me.

Thanks for stopping in & stay as long as you want! My thread is your thread AND speaking of threads...I believe that Marsh has given you an assignment to work on!, get busy! he/he

K

Karen,

I am not sure how your H feels now because he has not shown much yet in the way of restoring the M. I think in time it will come but not until he has totally gotten the OW out of his mind. My W came to me on d-day told me the whole story and it was over. Unfortunately it took another 3 months of withdrawal before she finally became the individual I had married.

So to answer if he feels bad for you, I think he probably does but he still has his own emotions to get under control before he can begin to realize what he has done to you, as messed up as that may be. My W was remorseful for what she had done but it still took a few months before she could look at the reality of what she had done to our M. The "Black Days of the A" were never ending or so it seemed.

When she finally snapped out of it it was like a light bulb was turned on. "That's it. I'm over it. Lets move on." That pretty much summed up how she acted then. Then we were able to talk things out and really begin to put us back onto the track for recovery.

Here's where I have had a problem. She reached a point where she thought I should be over it too. No longer wanted to talk about it. She felt that I was punishing her by continuing to talk and ask questions over and over. So I decided that if I really wanted the M I needed to put it away and work on the M. So that's what we did. Put it away and worked on us and the future. We have been doing that ever since.

So that's the been my sitch since then. Keeping things to myself but never getting rid of the pain in the gut when ever I think about it. Just never had the means to get this out of my system as I never wanted to punish her.

I think my posting here may be of some help in that regard. Maybe by doing so my story may in some strange way be helpful to others as well. OR NOT!

JKG,

Did your wife completely end the A on d-day or was there set backs? Although my WH ended the A prior to returning on Sept. 1st, he still had 2 instances where there was contact, verbal only. But the verbal contact is just as damaging. The last contact was a voice mail left on his celphone about a month ago. I think that is probably why it continues to take so much longer for us to get on the road to recovery.

Just as your W, I think that my WH fears that I will not let go of things either. That seems to be an issue & we haven't even gotten far enough into this yet. I keep a lot in, trust me! So...how are things now with you? This far after the A? I didn't realize that it had happened so long ago for you! I'm sure that you have a lot to offer to all of us, the "future" after the A & all of the "after effects" of the A.

I hope to see some remorse from my WH soon, that to me is in indication that we are making some progress. While his desire to get involved in IC shows some progress there are still many "little" things that he could be doing to help the process; I'll wait patiently for him.

Thanks for the stuff! K

Hey Karen and JKG ~

I thought I'd jump in here and make a few comments <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />


I think sometimes there's more going on than "just" withdrawal (as if that isn't bad enough!) ~ there is also a lot of guilt and shame that the FWSs feel and must deal with. I'm not sure how much withdrawal my H went through ~ he ended it with OW the day I found out, without a fight or anything. He said there was never a question in his mind who he would choose if it ever came down to it. And he has never broken NC, ever. Yet it still took 6 months for him to come out of his "fog" ~ and that's a pretty long time considering the A was probably at most 4 months long, (it's kinda hard to determine the timeframe here because they started out as "just friends" (yeah, gag gag gag) ~ so when it eventually turned into an EA, I don't know. It had only turned physical three days before I found out. But my point is, that post dday "fog" they're in has many dynamics to it. Sure, withdrawal may be one, or for some there may not really be any real "withdrawal".

MFsFWH has said, now that the fog has cleared, that as he looks back at those 6 months, that it was kind of a defense mechanism to stay foggy. Who wants to face the fact that they lied and cheated and betrayed their spouse? That they broke the one promise that ever really mattered?
That's a lot to take on, you know?

I'm not totally sure what finally really snapped him out of his fog, but I do know that it coincided exactly with my really angry "I'm-so-done-with-this-bullsh**/marriage/FWH" phase. I had just finally had enough and I couldn't take it anymore. Something in me had snapped. I started daydreaming about what it would be like to be D'ed, how much free time I would have if we split custody, how fun it would be to find a new relationship and get back into that "exciting" phase of a relationship again. It wasn't something I had planned or was forcing myself to think about, it's just how I felt after 10 freaking months of Plan Aing him and getting nothing back.

So, whether that had anything to do with the fog finally clearing or not, I dunno...if not, it sure was good timing!

So just keep that in mind, Karen ~ he's dealing with a lot of guilt and shame over this too. It's not "just" withdrawal.

~MF

First of all d-day was the end of the A. There were a couple of contact events but she was so beyond the A by that time they were pretty much non events. The problems that we had is that she didn't want to talk about the A after our initial conversations. I on the other hand just couldn't let it go. Two opposite extremes. I felt that she never really took responsibility and ownership for her actions. She said on numerous occasions that she never thought that I loved her and didn't really care about her A. (Fog speak) She wanted to just move on because it was over for her and in her mind it should have been over for me as well.


By putting the talk of the A away I did accomplish my goal of normalizing our M. We were able to finally get moving on to the future and have had a very good and close M. The only problem is the A was never far from my mind. If we had a time when things were slow I would find myself starting to get in the habit of thinking about it. It was something that I always had to push away. "Think about somthing else". I have always been able to control it but it has never gone away and think probably never will.


Karen,

I am pretty certain that if my W had not been remorseful on d-day there would have never been any recovery for us ever. She made it clear that she ended the A and had never really wanted to leave me.

She says that in fact the OM had indicated that he was getting ready to finally take steps to make their A a permanent R or M. He was seting things up to get a D and getting her leave me and go away with him. I think this scared the he## out of her. Because as she now tells me that was not her intention at all.

Anyway I think your H still has to get his emotions under control before he can fully recommit to you. This certainly can take some time. I know for us it took her sever months before she had fully released the OM from her mind. It took me far longer than her but she never knew that until just recently. I hope that you can be patient enough to see it through. The rewards after will definitely be worth the effort.