I talked to the OM's wife late Friday afternoon. It was a quick 20 minute talk (when I had really hoped to talk a couple of hours more on Saturday). When I found out this would be our only talk before she confronted her husband I deviated from the 'script' big time and was jumping all over the place in terms of what was going on. She wanted the pictures I had which was fine since I had brought them for her anyway. I told her if I had my druthers she would tell her husband that she had hired a PI. She told me she was just going to tell him that the pictures had been delivered anonymously. Well, reality is that she told him virtually everything I had mentioned. I had told her that there was a chance that my WW and the OM took a weekend together in another city (based on some evidence I had found) and asked that she check back and see if he was out of town that weekend. Well, she took that one way too far and mentioned the evidence. Said evidence could have only come from my wife's house.

Bet you can guess that the OM in turn told my wife everything. The sudden burning question for them was how I came to know so much. The OMW talked to me briefly over the weekend. She called me Monday, and we talked about 40 minutes. She told me how much she appreciated me telling her. She and the OM had long talks and were going to work on the marriage. He (supposedly) came clean with her, telling her of days, times, and places. She mentioned a couple of things he told her that I knew to be true, but she also told me I was mistaken about the out-of-town trip. Whoops, no I wasn't (but I didn't tell her that). She agreed that if I learned the affair resumed (or was continuing) I should tell her. She also told me that she really wanted to talk to my wife (about positive things). She also told me that the OM said at some point last fall my wife wanted to back out of the affair but the OM pursued her more strongly. That actually jived with something my wife said in her anger over exposure to our adult daughters in early October: "You were so close." I thought that was BS at the time but upon hearing what the OMW related began to wonder if maybe, just maybe, my wife was an atypical WW. She also said that the attraction between the star-crossed adulterers was friendship and conversation, the sex wasn't the important part. Well, I knew better than that, so my WW wasn't sounding so atypical now. She also told me that the OM hadn't been getting any for a long time (which is what he had told my WW) because of some psychological hangups of the OMW but that last 3 nights had been great.

Tuesday night my WW called and then came over to my apartment for about an hour. She had lots of hostile questions, mainly wanting to find out how I knew things. I had to admit to finding a couple of things in drawers in her bedroom (and if it isn't clear to you, my wife and I have lived apart about 2 months now). I also told her about hiring a PI to get more information (until the money ran out), including taking pictures. She also managed to try (didn't work) to beat me up about having been a terrible husband. I blew a lot of smoke, believe me.

Okay, here's the bottom line. I know a LOT of things and will continue to know what is going on as long as my methods aren't discovered. I now positively know that my WW was fishing to some extent and believed most of my explanations. She had prepared a list of questions (but didn’t pull it out in front of me). I also know that the OM was "miserable" after this exposure and got in touch with my WW. She has his tear stained letter in her purse. They're just cooling it for the moment but have seen each other & talked. The OM is apprehensive that I’m following my wife at lunch, but my WW assured him that my lunch times are VERY rigid. Love was expressed all around. I know the name of a woman who knows what is going on. I know where he keeps mementos (cards and letters) but my WW has advised him to shred them. How in the world do I convey to the OMW that things aren't as rosy as she thinks without fear of her spilling her guts to the OM? She has done ZERO exposure of her own, by the way. If I even hint at knowledge, I'm afraid she'll spill it to the OM. I'll definitely let the OMW know that I've been questioned about everything I told her and ask if she has talked to my wife (knowing full well that she hasn't so obviously the OM is talking to my wife). If I name the woman who knows and ask who she is, I have no doubt that will get back to the OM quickly (but maybe I can get her to name the men & women working with the OM and say something about each one). I can definitely let her know that I was questioned Tuesday night about something we talked about Monday (so again obviously the OM and my WW are talking). I'll give her SAA, HNHN, and another book or two whenever we meet, and urge her to read SAA right away. She needs to do more exposure. (Friday night my WW expressed concern to the OM that the OMW would tell his parents, so I know that’s a possibility.) I want her to believe how serious the situation still is but how in the world can I convey that without putting my extremely effective snooping at risk?

Thanks. I'll hang up now and go to bed. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

BT

Have you thought about doing the exposure that the OM's wife won't do?

Can you tell his boss, co-workers, parents, pastor, dog-groomer?

If the affair/contact is still continuing, then I'm all for taking out newspaper ads to apply pressure to the scumbag.

If she won't do it, then can you?

BT, what is wrong with the OMW confronting her H with all this? Isn't that the point? You don't want to give away your sources, but you can show her pictures, emails, etc. Tell her that the weekend trip is TRUE! Don't let her continue to be befuddled about anything. The OM is lying to her, tell her this! Tell her everything EXCEPT your sources!

Plant SEEDS that are designed to scare the bejesus out of the affairees. Tell the OMW that you are having them both watched by various sources. And of course you can't tell your sources.

And since you have them on the run, why not make this good and expose to all other key targets? Instead of giving them time to plot and recover from every exposure, do it all at ONCE to get the maximum impact.

Agreed with ML...and I'd like to add that you don't need to tell your wife ANYTHING about how you got the information.

Simply refuse to answer the question.

That way you protect your ability to get information in the future, and it will drive her even more crazy with not knowing where the affair is vulnerable.

Expose to everyone you can, since you've got such overwhelming evidence.

You did just fine. I wouldn't even worry about the OM's wife talking too much. Continue giving her proof if the affair continues. Don't reveal your sources.

The infidels are circling the wagons. I'm not surprised at all, because they ALWAYS talk to each other after exposure, trying to figure out who knows what, and how, etc. Let them squirm.

Continue on your plan. If your story goes like most, the OM will drop your wife like a hot potato. You see, the relationship has become dangerous to his marriage. It will be much easier for him to latch on to another woman whose husband won't make trouble for him.

Wait a minute, I don't get it? You need to use any and all methods to break up their little fantasy land, affair. If it means employing the OMW to help then so be it. Why do you care whether WW is mad, angry, upset, making "false" statements, outright lying, etc. SHE is the one having the A. SHE can stop having the A anytime she wants.

All is far in this and you should not feel one bit of shame, guilt or otherwise for trying to protect your M and break up her sleazy A. Expose OM if the OMW will not do it, sooner than later.

Artor,

Thanks for the suggestions. Other than the boss, I don't know anyone else. I would prefer that the OMW talk to the boss as that could mean a reaming of the OM as well as the rest of the staff plus could mean the boss keeping an eye on things. I did mention the boss to the OMW when we talked Monday. If I do it, I assume that the end result is firing and the OMW implied Monday that they need the money (so future cooperation with the OMW might be out of the question).

BT

BT, I would suggest that you expose to the workplace without even involving her. Contact the OM's boss and the head of Human Resources. Tell them about the affair and how it destroying two marriages. Ask them what they intend to do about it. I wouldn't expect her to do something you are not willing to do yourself.

p.s. Strategically, your best bet is do any remaining exposures NOW while they are in dissarray. If you wait until they have a chance to regroup from your exposure to the OMW, it will weaken the impact. Take advantage of their current weakened state. Make a list of exposure targets and do them all in one fell swoop and you will insert the maximum conflict into the affair. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

ML,

I've given the OMW the pictures. That, the cell phone bills (which she didn't want Friday), and my knowledge of what went on and when is all that I can share with her. The other things I have which show how I acquired the knowledge CANNOT be revealed. I've already got my wife saying that her house is bugged (it isn't) and that she is going to have to hire people to check things out for her (something that must not happen).

Right now I'm planning on calling her and setting up a time to talk one evening or this weekend. I've got to stress to her the importance of NOT telling her husband. When we do talk one topic will be NC. I've mentioned that to her, but I'm not positive she understands. I want to be able to tell her things that I could have learned or surmised from what my wife said last night. For instance, my wife wanted to know how I knew about the condoms in what was my nightstand. The OMW told me Monday that the OM said he always used condoms. I verified to her that I had seen condoms in the nightstand. That alone shows continued communication between the adulterers. I'll also tell her the story my wife told me about buying a ticket for cash because the show was sold out weeks in advance. That part must be true because I know she & the OM talked about the lack of a paper trail, but the fact remains that there were two tickets. Without explicitly revealing one of my THAT WHICH MUST NOT BE REVEALED methods, I have no proof. I also early in the conversation want to find out what the OM told her about the adultery (hoping to add more pieces to the puzzle). I remember full well how basically out of control I was for the first week after my wife verified the affair. Even though the OMW was very calm the times I've talked to her, I've got to do my best to be sure she doesn't go off half cocked. If she can spin it that she has hired a PI, that would divert attention from me plus (I think) really spook the OM. I also do want to talk to her about further exposure and agree that simultaneous is best.

Thank you for your advice.

BT

BT, what exactly do you not want her to tell her H? Why do you need her to say she has hired a PI? You have hired a PI yourself in the past, why not just say something like, "I have hired a PI and I have others watching, so I know what is going on." Then HOPE she repeats this to the OM so he repeats this to your WW. You want them to KNOW they are being watched.

As far as exposures, I would just do them yourself where you can and do them NOW. NOW. Time is a wasting while you wait. Call up the OM's boss and HR today. Call up any other exposure targets today. Find out who the OM's parents are and call them yourself.

C'mon, BT, get to work, my friend! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> You have a marriage to save!

BT,

Listen to Mel. She is spot on!!

I don't want my wife and the OM trying to figure out how I got certain info. (No way I can reveal that I know their secret code for the pager that lets her know he is paging and not his wife, for instance.) Many things I've passed off as coming from the fictional PI, but there are many things that could only have been learned in other ways. Speculation about those ways is NOT a good thing for me, I promise you. Right now she is pretty satisfied with what I said last night. I denied having a key to her house (I don't) and told her that I wasn't foolish enough to think she would use the old alarm code in her new place (hence a key would do me no good). I told her to change the locks if that would make her feel better. I told her how I knew about his calls to her house (deleting particular incoming caller IDs from one cordless phone doesn't delete that information from the other 3 or 4 cordless phones) since I can't use that method again. That apparently was enough to placate her.

Thanks Owl.

BT

If she'll just spin the "hired a PI" yarn, I should be fine. I just can't say things that I could have only learned a particular way.

It looks like it's a romantic affair on both sides. My WW has his tear stained letter he gave her in the last day or two. A lot of expressions of love last night. I know he cares about his kids, but the last two at home are seniors in high school, so he may be thinking of bailing at some point. I guess he's in the fog himself (but I still think not as much as my wife). He really wasn't getting any for years. If the OMW can turn up the heat (which she did the 3 nights before I talked to her Monday) and keep it up, maybe that will get his attention (plus exhaust him, I hope).

Thanks believer.

BT

I don't care about my WW's reactions. All I want to do is maintain my exceedingly helpful snooping methods. When I first confronted her about the affair, I told her that cell phone records clued me in. Gee, no more cell phone calls after that, so I lost a way of knowing things. What I've got going now is way too good to lose. Believe me, I've got no guilt or shame about exposing.

BT

Small place, no HR, maybe 10 employees (max). I'm still unwilling without talking to the OMW to do something that could devastate her and the kids financially even though we could trace the ultimate reason for that to the OM and my WW.

BT

BT, almost all affairs are romantic affairs. But exposure and other methods create great conflict in the affair. Their romance is based on a fantasy, and when you shine the light of exposure on the secrecy, you inflict great damage. It is like bringing witnesses into the crack house to watch the crack heads getting high. Who wants to get high when there are witnesses!

Sounds good to me. The OMW will know those targets.

BT

[quote When I first confronted her about the affair, I told her that cell phone records clued me in. Gee, no more cell phone calls after that, so I lost a way of knowing things. What I've got going now is way too good to lose. Believe me, I've got no guilt or shame about exposing.

BT [/quote]

Gee, I don't know how you can't see the absolute BEAUTY in this. The fences are now going up for WW. Listen, you have created another obstcle for them to overcome in order to continue the A.....this is EXACTLY what needs to happen.

How would YOU remain in contact??? Think about it.

What's snooped is snooped no matter how you got the info. Why care more about this more than getting your WW back?

My WW found out that I would find out about contact no matter how hard she tried, she didn't know how I was finding out she had contact, she wasn't willing to try any harder to cover her tracks, she didn't want to get caught and hear it from me, so eventually she just gave up. She figured it wasn't worth trying to contact OM anymore.

Also, what does your WW think about OMW turning up the heat the past few nights? Does she know? It might be something you might want to let slip. Whoops! Nothing like trouble in paradise.