thanks...

I am working on me at the moment... I think I am on an up swing... I am feeling pretty good and my self confidance and self esteam seem to be resurging...

I am stating to ask myself if the M is healthy for me, And frankly the answer is no it isn't. It could be but it isn't. When I look there is a lot of baggage with the WW. baggage I can do without. Ok I married her
so if she attempts to recon I would likly try.

However did a lot of thinking and poundering today, I don't think I should expend any more energy on the M until she come back to it. I should be focusing my time and energy on me.


That is just my thought... Basically I think i should walk away, if she chooses to come after me I may need to make a decison, if she dosn't...

jim

Ken,

You are finally getting to the right place in my opinion. You should work on yourself, and you are. You have given an opportunity, and still are: the door is open. You should be evaluating whether you really and truly want this marriage, and you are. You should be realizing you will survive this, and you are.

It seems to me all systems are go. This is NOT a marriage at all costs site. It is a site that allows people to give their marriage a better chance than they otherwise would. But, you and your W have choices to make. You can choose to leave the marriage or stay, if you choose the former it is over no matter what your W decides. If you choose to stay and try, then your W have two choices, leave or stay and work on the marriage. IF she chooses to leave, your choices don't count either.

THe point of this??? Worry about your own choices, learn and grow. You will be able to handle whatever she chooses, and you will be able to make a better decision yourself.

Hang in there.

JL

Thanks I am trying...

I am re-evaluating many things...

I really need to ajust my attatude to an abundance mentality Female wise. I am thinking I really sold myself short due to that thinking.

My W has a great deal of downside I have previously accepted... Her family is disfuntional, always drama, her family hates me and has constantly tried to sabotage our Relationship/marraige, she has lots of kids, dosn't get child support and she dosn't make much money ($10.hr).

Additionally her family's value structure or lack there of chafes me and I would say it is safe to say post M her value system changed or she let the real Bobi out and the current version is unacceptable.

Now what is the upside, well that is a problem I am not finding it now. it was good friendship, she loved me, took care of me and great sex. Now all the upside has disappeared.

just some of my thoughts...

Jim

I have been thinking hard about advertising for a roommate to help with cost control... a few hundred a month would really help me out... What do you folks think, has anyone else done this? I don't think it should be a problem. I don't see why I shouldn't, I don't see that I owe it to the ww to keep the 2 bed rooms open at this point...


jim

Has anyone done the roomm ate thing during seperation to help defray costs?

Did it work for you?

Has anyone have it come back to bite them in the butt?

Anyone see any pontential probelms aside from the obivious your dont get alone with the roommate?

meet with my IC today, she thinks roommate is great idea...
She says I am moving into acceptance phase of grief...

I have one more session before she leaves, want to discuss abundance mentality, and how to go about choosing better partners, (she says don't bring home anymore wounded ducks)

Waiting for a comment from my lawyer, if he green lights the roommate idea I will listing for a roommate before the weekend... Then WW will have to vacate the rest of her "stuff" and I guess moving back would get intresting. I just am not prepaired to take a severail thousond dollar hit to keep the rooms vacant...

I guess I am starting to move on.

Jim

Lawyer said there would be no legal issue with getting a roommate...

ok folks anyine have any thougts?

Well, so what's your plan or intent at this point? Move on with the divorce, or attempt to reconcile your marriage?

If you want to reconcile, the room mate thing is going to be one more hurdle to deal with if the chance comes up.

If you want to divorce...then it's up to you.

Owl

So far I have seen exactly zero actions or words that indicate the WW has any intent or desire to recon, and many that indicate she dosn't. Unless the WW decides she wants to recon I don't have a choice or decision to make in the matter.

The WW left me holding the morgage, bills and everything else while she left taking her paycheck. I am making all the payments but it is pretty tight...

Sitting back powerless isn't a good feeling or something I like to do. I am at the point where I feel I need to own my own power and not surrender it to a WW who cares less how I feel or what I need or want. Jim needs to take care of Jim because WW won't. A roommate shareing expenses, or even a reansonable portion would be in jim's best intrest (and welcome relief), having someone to talk to and maybe make a friend with would be an added bouns...

With this in mind I have decided I am going to proceed living my life under the asumption she is gone and not comming back... If she comes and shows me she desires a recon, I will consider it and have to decide what to do at the time.. As daddy said I will cross that bridge when I come to it.. Frankly WW needs to understand that this BS has had it with her BS.

I don't need and don't want it. She needs to Un F&*K herself pronto, if she can't treat me right I will find someone who will... Dad said there are pleanty of fish in the sea...

Note: should I break darkness to tell her to come and get her stuff out of my house ao have the lawyer tell her for me? That will cost me $75.00 where telling her myself would be free...

Jim

Again...what is YOUR plan? Divorce, or reconciliation?

You can't do both at once with any hope of being effective at both.

You can PREPARE for divorce while still working towards reconciliation, but you have to have a GOAL of one or the other. And your REAL efforts need to be towards your goal.

And it doesn't matter what HER plan is...what matters is what goal YOU are going to work towards.

Make sense?

Owl,


I am accepting the that WW is gone and not comming back.
So my plan is to take care of Jim and to act in Jim's best intrest to protect him emotionally, spairtally and finiacially...

I am leaving the door open for a recon, but the ball is in the WW court, she will now have to come to me, I have made my best and finial offer, I have offered my last olive branch. I am heading toward the door, it is now up to her to stop me.

I am evaluating if the M is worth saving. I have made no finial decision on that yet, I have decided I will not accept the M on the old or current terms. It will have to drastically change... If I decide that the M is not worth saving I will let you know.

I think the M could be saved but it takes 2 to save it and right now there is only one... Am I am not going to wait forever.

Does that make sense.

jim

Jim,

I'm so glad Owl's here...thank you, Owl!

Would you consider this adage? Takes one person to save a marriage, and two people to recover?

I used to base my goals and actions on what my DH felt, thought, believed or perceived...and I resented the heck out of feeling left with few choices or no choices.

I CHOSE to pin myself in based on his desires, dislikes...and resent him for it. Which is how we make resentment and nuture it within ourselves. Not them doing it.

They aren't that powerful. They are only half of any relationship...even our marriage, when they're attacking it.

Don't give her your power of choice, your goals, your stuff...all that is yours, valid, real and very important.

"So far I have seen exactly zero actions or words that indicate the WW has any intent or desire to recon, and many that indicate she dosn't."

You're looking at actions/words..."Unless the WW decides she wants to recon I don't have a choice or decision to make in the matter."

I actually got these words after three months waiting on WH's decision (and yes, I was committed to saving our marriage during that time)..."I have decided to stay and work on the marriage. I'm not doing it because I love you. I don't WANT to love you or even try. I'm choosing to do so because I think that down the line, staying has the best chance of me ever being happy. I'm doing this for my son, not you. I know I'll have to consider you, eventually. It will be a long ways down the line."

Doesn't take two to save a marriage...only to recover. We are living evidence of this belief...and so are many others on this board. We had to choose from ourselves, not based on WS's...and by choosing based on our desires, our wants...we cracked open our pattern of choosing based on possible response...others' choices...and began to live freely, in our own.

Necessary for recovery...and one day having a mutually thriving marriage, IMO.

"The WW left me holding the morgage, bills and everything else while she left taking her paycheck. I am making all the payments but it is pretty tight..."

I thought you said she earned $10/hour to support six kids or something close to that? In reference to you not having the FS EN? You are saving on utilities, food, gas, entertainment...I dunno. Lots of stuff, as I remember. My food bill drop was huge when WH moved out. LOL. That's what I remember. The tv wasn't on, the lights were left on...the radio wasn't playing while he showered...I think I could remember everything I counted.

I own the difference, though...he didn't take his paychecks with him...they came into our joint account which paid the bills, and I did a spreadsheet up which listed all our payments, his net pay and mine, and split the costs 50/50 and paid him the remainder against his net. Maybe I'm the one off base here.

Out of his remainder, he had to pay for gas, car repairs, clothes, food, entertainment....he stayed with a relative an hour and a half away (no rent)...his dates with OW...I made sure I wasn't financially supporting his A.

"Sitting back powerless isn't a good feeling or something I like to do."

You aren't powerless...I know you are feeling you are right now and I remember that to be very pain-filled feeling. Mixed with relief...because that's the false payoff...I can't do squat 'cuz she won't let me. I'm off the hook.

You're not. You remain half your marriage...equal power and limits. I found real payoff in working to understand that and choosing from my real power...took away that powerless feeling entirely...which was like a boost. Living in reality does that.

"I am at the point where I feel I need to own my own power and not surrender it to a WW who cares less how I feel or what I need or want."

I see you as doing just that...when you think you are taking it back, instead.

"Jim needs to take care of Jim because WW won't. A roommate shareing expenses, or even a reansonable portion would be in jim's best intrest (and welcome relief), having someone to talk to and maybe make a friend with would be an added bouns..."

Jim, you have been betrayed. You can choose to divorce; it's your right. Won't make you a bad or awful person. As long as you choose to do it from your own choice, not powerless, pushed into it or forced...you're free to do that. I think that's what Owl was asking...

If you choose to believe you are being left with no choice, you will repeat this again and again with others until you get what you don't right now...that at no time are you powerless, done to or helpless. You aren't. God didn't make no junk and he sure as heck didn't give one creation power over another. Equality doesn't work that way. Love doesn't work that way...doesn't make you weak, a doormat nor does it abandon you.

You have a WW right now...not your real W. Those of us who choose to stay and save our marriages know there has been an alien abduction...we are not looking at our WS's feelings and making our choices from them...that would be even more insane than having an A ourselves...No, we hold the memory of our real partners, not the wayward ones who bear a striking resemblance to them.

Helps us to stay sane, choose from our own power and goals...and recover...with or without our spouses.

LA

LA thanks

She had 6 kids, 2 lived with us, 2 were aduilds, 2 lived whith her ex... She used to buy the food, and chip in 350 to the main budget... So I lost 350 and food...

Yes utilities are dropping like a stone, however i am handling all the debt load myself for the moment and the house... I am tight and I don't like living on the edge...

I am not a victim, but I have been betryed by someone who I gave my trust and my everything too.

If the WW came out of the fog, and was the W again, and decided to try to make the M work I will give it my best shot...

I also have to be practable and understand that dosn't look very likly at the moment. Our MC dosn't think so the my pastor dosn't think so...

ok my plan is to get a roommate (male) on a month to month basis to help with the morgage and frankly a friend would be nice too... the WW is tied in to a m-m lease with 60 days notice, if she comes out of the fog and wakes up in time, I will be here... I honestly don't know how much longer I am going to wait however... Every day she is gone more love slips away and i am accepting more she isn't comming back...

Don't really know what else to say... I have a little hope left but not much...

Jim

LA is always giving such great advice!

I got a roommate shortly after WH moved out, only because I HAD to. WH left with his money and refused to contribute anything. It was the best decision for me. Now I'm on the second one in almost 4 years - the first got married. I enjoy having someone around, and it sure helped me out financially. WH was angry about it, but understood finally. By the way, I got males both times.

About the same here... It is very tight if I get a house mate that would provide soem real breathing room...

The company would be nice too...

I have cut about all I can cut with out getting crazy...

I will need to tell WW to come get the reminder of her stuff at some point. sje wa to have vacated but i have been holding out hope she would change her mind... hope is faiding however...

Jim

Ken-

Thanks for the reply. The point of my question was simple...you can't be successful if you're working on two different goals that are in direct opposition of each other.

I agree with everything that LA said...dead on the money.

And I do agree that you DO have the choice to either work on your marriage or divorce...and having been through the pain of betrayal myself, I can completely understand why you would choose either option, and would completely respect either option.

From my perspective, you can't get anywhere without a plan. A goal. You need to KNOW what you want to do, and be working towards that. Otherwise, you're not going to get anywhere. Even our first MC told my FWW (at the time WW) something similar. My wife wanted to 'wait, see how things went, and then decide if she wanted to work on the marriage or not". Our MC told her "you can't build a house by waiting...the first step in building a house is to CHOOSE to build a house. You don't wake up one morning and find the foundation layed and the lumber in the yard. That comes AFTER you choose, not before."

So my point was simply to remind you of the same thing...you can't make any progress if you haven't decided what you want to do.

IF you're intent is to reconcile, the roomate thing is a risky deal, IMHO. It sends a very strong message to your WW that you're moving on. Not always a bad thing, but this message is a little stronger, and easily interpretable as a sign that you don't want her back. It means that if she were to completely change her WW behavior today, it's going to be at least a month before she could consider coming home.

Again, it's up to you. Working out the financial situation isn't easy. I just wanted to give you something to consider. You asked for opinions...I've given mine. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Owl,

I understand and agree with your MC... When our MC asked the WW if she wanted to work on the M she said no she wanted a D. The WW basically has zero contact with me, I don't need to be dark she is... I can't dance a tango without my partner.

I will not/can not risk going under finanacally over a "she may" come back "someday" and the "M might recover".
Isn't the first rule to secure youreself finanacally?

My basic plan now is to save myself, and if she makes moves toward recon I will consider it if/when it happens.

I understand the roommate maybe risky to the M. Yes it says Jim is moving on, and it darn well should, because I am!

Yes I still love her, yes I am still open and receptive to recon...

But WW needs to get it through her thick skull that time and my paitence have their limits and she is rapidly approaching them.

If the WW pulled in the drive today and wanted to move back in, that is a no deal. Not until I see the dynamic has changed. I need to see her acting committed to the M and the A must have ended, that dosn't happen in one day.

Also the WW is in a M-M lease with 60 day notification.
I plan to be M-M with the roommate with 30 days notice...

Finially to be honest I have all but given up...
As i said I am consantly weighing and evaluating my options.


and the one question no one provided advice on... Do I email her to come get her stuff?

Jim

Sent this to WW.

Bobi

How you would like to handle your remaining belongings at the house. I am planning on getting a roommate and I do not wish for anything happen to your things.

Jim

Is this letter nice enough...

Jim,
you may want to offer some alternatives like " I can box it up and you can pick it up from the garage." or "You can come box all the stuff you want and take it and I'll clear out the rest." or whatever. The piece I have quoted above could be interpreted by some spaced out WW as a veiled threat that you are going to trash her stuff.

I know you are near the end of your patience with WW, but ask yourself what is the best way I can conduct myself and shoot for that, kind but firm.

Good Luck, I hope this is not another opportunity for her disrespect you or hurt you.

no veiled threat but i see what you mean...

Yes i am at the end of my patience, trying to do this with love and kindness...

I want her back but since Nov she has not done anything to indicte she wants to be M to me and has done lots to indicate she dosn't.

I also have to face the reality that she just isn't comming back.

Jim