CJ, and all, thanks so much for all the kindness. CJ, taking your words to heart. Am going to take DS13 shopping in a little while and gave the dept. store a heads up, but won't push him too hard. He got through my sister's funeral by playing his game boy!

H called me today and told me he had put a call in to set his solo SH appointment and to ask me for the cell phone number so he could call and get a password. I asked him to wait and do it together. That was fine.

He's distant, I'm numb. No ILYs today.

Shopping with DS13. What an adventure. The big issue was that he really wanted stuff to be from the "men's" dept. and that was a little tough in the case of a suit jacket. But we managed. They are going to take about a foot off the bottom of his trousers overnight.

LA,

When I get back from funeral travel, it would be good to talk more!

Still don't have the cell phone records. He was going to try to get a password from customer service yesterday but I asked him to wait until we were together. But it was too busy last night. So he may try to do that today.

The emotional distance is really hard to take. I told him last night he seemed awfully platonic to me. I am on the verge of making selfish demands about that (probably already have) but it makes me crazy. Sorry, not interested in a casual friendship with you, buddy.

I know the WS doesn't care how about the BS's pain. (Mulan's Law) But I am feeling the emotional abandonment and the "don't feel any passion for you" particularly deeply right now. All the years of his selfish independence are just really biting right now.

We will all be travelling tonight to the family home in another state for the funeral. I'll have a computer. We come home on Monday night.

Got back late last night from funeral travel. I have confidence that my mom is at peace and where she wants to be right now.

Got the call records which showed daily calls for the 6 months that records are available. A far cry from "Last couple of months, only a couple times a week friendship-only talks" H had described. She even left him daily voicemails when we were on our cruise. The calls/voicemails have stopped going to the phone.

H is supposed to talk with SH in the morning. The ball is in his court to work out a provable way to end the relationship. Otherwise, I'm outa here.

H has been loving. I have been working on detaching.

Welcome back, LL...

Thinking of you...in my prayers, my heart.

LA

Which side to jump on?

H had his appointment with SH this morning. Has not yet told me of any plan-- I had to run off to a job interview (got stuck in a nasty traffic situation and had to reschedule....)Says we will talk tonight. I dropped his forgotten lunch off to him mid-day and he was welcoming at the office. Invited me to stay. My pictures are up in the office.

It is my turn next to talk to SH.

When is your appt with SH?

I pictured you stuck in traffic and suddenly yelling Tawanda! at the top of your lungs and ramming your car through, grinning all the way.

I think I need a nap.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

A lady of grace, civility, loving detachment and restraint.

Go beat a pillow, dig a hole, make mud pies and smash them...express safely what you feel...your self-care...'cuz you really, really are worth it.

LA

can you tell me what sh stands for? im having the hardest time trying to figure it out..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Tawanda, Indeed!

Have made the call for the appointment, haven't heard back yet.

Grace, civility, loving detachment and restraint? I have always hoped to have those qualities.

This morning I LBd on the way out the door. Looking for action, seeing another reason given not to talk "right now." We're ALWAYS on the way out the door, or mired in some urgent thing.

Anyway, H asked me if I was feeling anxious and without hope-- and I said "Yes." Told him the lies had been so pervasive and had gone on for so long that I could not afford to feel any other way without seeing action on his part. And that every sngle day, in order to protect myself, I contemplate leaving.

He was angry then, all welcomes when I brought him his lunch. Sheesh.

SH = Steve Harley

LL,

"Tawanda, Indeed!" Hey, revisiting "Fried Green Tomatoes" may be just what you need tonight.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

"Have made the call for the appointment, haven't heard back yet.

Grace, civility, loving detachment and restraint? I have always hoped to have those qualities."

Know you have those...they are villagers inside you. Within your control...they are real. No hopin' about it.

"This morning I LBd on the way out the door. Looking for action, seeing another reason given not to talk "right now." We're ALWAYS on the way out the door, or mired in some urgent thing."

How did you LB going out the door? Stating, "I don't believe we will talk tonight. I want to. I know you can make it happen."

That's not an LB...that's sharing your stuff. Stating truth isn't an LB. Even if he gets mad...that's his, not yours.

And you do your half...state the time for talking..."I'll be available to meet at 8:15pm." Then be there...clear your own decks...eliminate your DJs and expectations...showing up is 90% of life. It's important. In your control.

"Anyway, H asked me if I was feeling anxious and without hope-- and I said "Yes." Told him the lies had been so pervasive and had gone on for so long that I could not afford to feel any other way without seeing action on his part. And that every sngle day, in order to protect myself, I contemplate leaving."

Hey, why do you need evidence for your feelings? Why justify? You feel fearful and hopeless...and a heckuva lot more feelings, too. They are valid. They are yours. Stating that you could not afford to feel any other way makes you his slave...and you are NOT! You're a reasonable, whole, complete individual human being, his equal in every way...and your thoughts about leaving or staying are yours. Not about him. He chose to continue his A. Not about you...you didn't make him at all. He did that. Seems to me you are going for clarity and understanding (not approval) before making your choices...so much at one time...you're loving yourself well right now...and you shared your stuff. Keep it your stuff...'cuz you don't want any self-betrayal added to is, do you?

"He was angry then, all welcomes when I brought him his lunch. Sheesh."

Ack...take your focus off his stuff...until he states he's anger, be comfortable with not knowing...same with welcomes...eradicate your DJs...they feel like succor and they are poison...don't let your valuable focus get snarled in his reactions, his stuff...even when he does share...leave it where it belongs...over there.

Self-care and awareness right now, LL. Time to grieve a whole lot...even a lifetime involved...do it in your own pieces, with that grace, kindness, compassion and self-consideration. You're worth it.

I hope you get your appt soon...really soon, 'k?

In God's hands and my prayers,

LA

Appointment is for Monday morning.

Last night H initiated discussion, said SH had advised him to write a letter and told him the sample was in SAA (Which we have.) H says he is willing to do that if it gets us futher towards the goal of showing me he is ending the relationship.

Told me that his private line had rung after hours last night, but he did not answer.

Plans to write the letter within a day or so.

He wanted to know what else I needed. I told him "a track record."

And I told him it could be helpful for me, and I thought beneficial for him, to go back and unpack his lies. That I was having a really hard time with the concept of forgiving the recent series of lies about the phone.

I asked him if he had anything else he wanted to share with me and he said he was trying to think about vulnerabilities, how he had been vulnerable.

He spent some time last night reading SAA and also Private Lies.

And this morning H was rather subdued, which led to anxiety on my part. He is working his extra job tonight, which I hate.

Track record, eh?

How about changing all possible contact info? He used a secret cell...she can find his other phones...he changes them all?

What about re-exposure? I've forgotten if she's married or has a BF...

WH does amends to OWH or BF.

Regular counseling twice a week...one session together, one in IC...

That would be a real way back...deep amends. You can't redeem his choices...you can lay the path for his redemption.

I take it that you aren't going to Plan B...that you're going with the NC letter and the way back?

What would it take for you to Plan B, LL?

I know SH will guide you...just throwing my q's in...and wondering why you felt anxiety when he was subdued.

Are you gonna work on your DJs and taking his stuff as yours? Living reactively? Choosing to live reactively is a life full of hurt, rejection, pain, suffering...I really wish you'd choose to live actively, instead.

{{{{{{{{{{{{LL}}}}}}}}}}}}

LA

LA,

The work phones he can't change, but will probably change automatically at the end of the month when he moves office buildings. So she won't have his private line any more. Unless he gives it to her or one of his staff does.


M, 2 kids. Never been exposed. I am waiting for SH guidance on that one. And praying the NC letter sent to her house falls in to her H's hands. (how P/A is that?)

!!!


One step at a time. I would like that. He has been doing thigs he said he would never do the last 2 weeks. Talking to SH, for one.


One more lie. Or one more balk on his part. Or SH telling me that in his judgment it is time to do that. That may not be a complete list. I am trying to mentally prepare to do plan B if he is not really turning it around. I do think he needs to face some major consequences over what he has done. This has to hurt. He has to have strong disincentives for his behavior.


Because he has a long day of opportunity for contact and I have no way to control it or know one way or the other. Fear of being lied to again.


Yes.

LL,

"I do think he needs to face some major consequences over what he has done. This has to hurt. He has to have strong disincentives for his behavior."

Would you consider it was pain that got him to this fantasy living? So having to hurt isn't the disincentive...because pain triggers false self-soothing...which is what A's are.

There are natural and logical consequences. I was asking for yours, about you...the ones you'd laid out to yourself in your predetermined, progressive boundary enforcements.

Never was exposed? So her BH doesn't know? How come you chose not to do this?

And about my question as to why you felt anxiety when you perceived your FWH was subdued...please separate that from him working the extended hours (and yes, I totally understand your fear...I remember it was like bracing myself for a car wreck...which was about to happen all day long)...you said that his demeanor led you to feeling anxiety. Not the out of your control day (which you actually have every day, just doesn't feel like it when others are being accountable and honest).

With you, LL...breathe, breathe, breathe...you didn't do this. You didn't make him feel, think, believe or choose to do anything.

You know you didn't.

This is contemplation time to watch your reactions and to share your stuff. You'll have more guidance on Monday...

This isn't him doing this to you...this was him doing this for him...total fantasy. I'm reminding.

LA

LA,


I understand what you are saying. But it sure feels like it's been done "to" me.

Yesterday he called me at lunchtime and told me he was having a hard day, feeling a lot of stress about "our stuff." I thought that was huge-- he has never acknowledged that to me before.

When he got home, he told me he had talked to OW. That she had emailed him asking him to call and that he had called her and told her I knew, and that we would split up if he didn't end the relationship. She told him "you have no choice, you have to take care of your family." She sent him an email that said:

"hi, you know you got me hooked again after you wrote that letter, i haven't done anything so i hope it isn't suggested that i have, for everyone's sake
we'd better stop talking,even though it hurts me too. your family is more important."

H did explain the letter she mentioned.

Things deterioriated from there. I asked H to write her a more definitive letter. Somewhere in the conversation he told me that we were operating under different paradigms; I think marriage is forever and he thinks it is OK to decide after 10 or 20 years that it just isn't working out, and we have to figure out how to make those paradigms work together. I said it certainly wasn't working out for me to be in a marriage where I was committed and faithful and he wasn't.

I KNEW I was talking to the alien. It still hurt like he77. I ended up feeling I had had my elevated status as "consolation prize" thrown at me for hours. It bites.

H got up this morning and apologized. We agreed last night he would draft an email today and send it to me to approve, then send it to her with a copy to me. He won't mail something to her house.

Exposure. That was never done because exposure is a tool to end the A. If the A was ended, there was no reason to expose.

And at this point, I am going to rely on SH for advice about that.
(edited in an effort to recover grace and dignity)

OK, so he sent me a sample e-mail this morning, and I asked him to change it to make it clear it was no contact "ever again." And he sent it, with a copy to me.

I think I'll wait a few weeks and see if there is any evidence of withdrawal before I start the "recovery" clock.

I would hold off on the NC letter and not do it in email...

Say that this is important...needs to be mailed to her home address, and you both do it together...walking it to a drop box...as a symbol...side by side.

Then you'll have her info to find her BH...

I know you're waiting to talk to SH...I can't in advise any less...not in my standards.

Because the A never ended...and exposure is respecting others and informing them...otherwise, you're a conspirator in hiding truth and manipulating others...that's not living from truth.

I know you feel done to...and I know you're going through shock after shock of different...him calling and sharing...and then confiding more...like the letter and showing you her email...

Can you please print these and keep them (or electronically store them on a separate media)? See, changing his phone numbers, email address...telling his company this must be done and involving them in the truth is important, too.

I don't think you did that...and now, they can't protect him...and they worked on a project together...there's a company tie there in somewhere, even sales to customer or client...has consequences.

Don't get in the way of them...don't be complicit in hiding truth.

Do you have access to all his emails?

My heart's there with you...I do remember...and I know when you do these boundary enforcements from your integrity, there won't be other DDays...no false recoveries...this will be different because you are choosing to do what you didn't before.

Acting from this certain truth--you are worth it...your marriage and family are worth it...and you can and will thrive with them!!

LA

Emails-- I am going to ask him to open up his work email this weekend and show it to me. It is heavily secured with an electronically changing password as well as other layers of passwords, so there is no way I can access it witout him opening it.

I know her address, phone, and BH name. They no longer work for the same company. She works in a different town, and there should not be any reason for them to *need* to be in contact.

I agreed to let him do the email. The other choice was to wait for our joint appt with SH next Wednesday, but I cannot tolerate any more delay.

I have made an agreement, and I will honor it.

I am going to talk to SH about all of this.