Hi,
I have been a lurker here for several years now, and i really appreciated all the advise that has been given here. Now i really need your help.

In August 2004, my DH had an affair. I had just given birth to DD2 so you can imagine the trauma of nursing a new born baby, while coming to terms with the affair. He said that it was EA and not PA, though i had no way of confirming this. I am the one who confronted him, after i got suspicious of his character (he had become rude, worked "late" and never once touched the baby, and when i found a really steamy message on his phone. At first, he denied everything, and even went as far as getting offended that i could even accuse him that.....after a few days though, he confessed in writing, and then accused me of neglecting him (i later learnt from this board that it was FOG).I have been trying to recover since then, but it has been hard. My husband has accused me of being suspicious, and not trusting him....which i dont deny.....its hard to trust again.

As part of our new year resolution this year, we agreed that i should start trusting him....he always feels that i am always suspicious of his every move....so he said that i should cut him some slack.......though am not exactly sherlock holmes.....i must admit that i did have my suspicions....i never really healed.....and besides....am an auditor by profession...so, well... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

In february, DH travelled to another country for 6 weeks, and came back real excited....we kept in touch for most of that time....but we would go without communicating for a few days once in a while. I never suspected anything, until last week when i opened his gmail account....and horror of horrors.....there was a steamy letter from a "friend" from the country where he had visited....confessing her love for him....and making it very clear that they had somehting special when he was there.

I went balistic, and printed out the mail....i called him up and we met for coffee...then i asked him about her....he said that she was just a friend who he had been introduced to while he was there....and that absolutely nothing had happened....then i showed him the email...and he said that he had no idea what that was all about....he looked really shocked and offended by what he read.....then he reminded me about our new year resolution (HE is the one who reminded me!!!).....anyway, after a long hard talk...i told him that i would like him to respond to the mail....and that he should BCC me.....If he said nothing happened, then he should respond and say so on the email to her.

I waited for 2 days....nothing from him....on friday i checked and he had changed the password on his gmail.....this past weekend has been full of tension....I have not raised the issue again but i have to.
1. Question is.....should i believe it when he said nothing happened (he did look totally shocked by the whole thing)....but then again ...maybe am being stupid?

2. Should i confront him and ask why he did not send a response....and if he did, why dint he show me a copy.

3. what should we agree on? what next....is that the end of trust? where do i go from here.

HELP!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Sorry you are here!

I could have written all that, as its exactly what happened to me.

My H had a ONS during a business trip, retourned home different, away... I checked mail, and there it was...the "proof" (but not hard proof) he denied , denied, denied... bla, bla ,bla...

I lived in ****** for a couple weeks until I was "forced" to believe him and move on... of course living in doubts FOR TWO YEARS, there were this times I knew inside he had done it and that I could not trust him alternated with those days where I would doubt myself if after all I wasnt being just the "stupid"paranoid wife. I lost all the trust in my instintcs... just to find out on Jan 2006 that after that first "incident" he developed a lot of PA, EA's until the last ONS before d-day, and even then, with hard proof he tried to deny....

So to give you an honest answer:

1. No, don't believe him. TRUST your insticnt. HE WILL DENY, deny and deny all the evidence. AND NO you are NOT stupid. NEVER let him make you feel or believe this.

2. He probably sended a response already, or to stop contact or to give her another e-mail account.

So YES, you can talk to him about it and ask him HOW ON EARTH CAN YOU TRUST HIM, if he changed the e-mail password???

BE FIRM, STRONG, you can tell him no more games and lies. BUT dont expect it will really work, Right now he believes you'll never have hard proof so you better never ever know, what you dont know doesnt hurt, and he will NEVER tell you and you will never find out, so he's giving you the agony of doubt and even blaming you for it.

OR CONTINUE SPYING. There are sites on the net that will provide you his e-mail password. Ask here. I have no links. Install keyloggers, etc.

Plan A until you find more hard proof. Be calm. I know it's hard, it's ******. Be nice when you most probably cant even face him.
I bet he gets rally angry or upset whenever you mention anything infidelity related right?

My H used to tell me all the time He loved me and the girls, and that I was the woman of his dreams, that we had a great life, and that he had no need to look for it outside...and even said he was happy I was showing jealousy, since it ment how much I loved him... He had 3 PA'S, and 4 EA's in two years with at leats 4 OW's, that I know of. He says that's it... I dont know.

Hope you can understand anything I am saying, I am not a native english I am sorry.

Be strong. POst here any doubt or vent or question, it really helps. I hope I had MB back then, but only found it after d-day.

I'll ask a few questions that will help people give you more advice.
How long are you married? How old are you guys? how many children? How old?

Wich country did he traveled to? Not so important, can happen everywhere, specially in a 6 weeks trip.

If to Asia, China,... dont forget that after business they offer a girl to the business partner to ëntertain him after the deals. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

In Europe... there's plenty single women who just believe a Married man is a good catch <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Thanks MSE,
thank God am not alone....i think thats what keeps me going...that am not alone.....i have just confided to my friend and she said axactly what you have told me....sorry i did not sign off, so i will include most of your answers in this sign off.....hope it helps.....i did not know that there are websites that can help me hack into his gmail....heh heh, that should be interesting.....can someone spill the links please.

once again, thanks MSE...i intend to confront him today...he will definately be defensive....after all, he had 2 days to think up of something....but he has to respond....i will update this link.

cheers!!


ME: 32yrs
WH: 33 yrs
DD1: 4 yrs
DD2: 3 yrs
DDay1: aug 2004 - he wrote NC letter to her
DDay2: 15th March 2007

i should change my name to sneaky b****. i hate giving away my sources. anyway...

i would ask him out right if he replied to her. *i would start this conversation with a reminder that he has agreed to be totally honest this year* if he says nothing happened, you have to believe him right then and there; no going ballistic.

then go out and buy a keylogger!

snoop but keep it to yourself until you have something. hopefully, you wont find anything.

bc of this email it will be quite a while before you really truly trust him again, if ever...

plan a. become the person you want to be, the wife he wants to come home to and the girl he fell in love with.

see how it goes.

That e-mail that was sent to him should contain the sender's e-mail address. You could send a reply to that address, quoting the e-mail, and indicate the current situation between you and your H. The OW might not even know that your H is M'd.

Something like...

"Dear xxxx"

"I was very disturbed to see your message to my DH of xxx years..."

BTW - I suggest never giving a WS "time to respond" to anything. No-one needs "time" to give an honest answer to any query about their actions. A WS will likely just use that time to iron out the wrinkles in their cover story. WS's lie - it comes with the territory.

MiM
ok, made big mistake....i printed the emails from OW then tore them after the last meeting....i really believed him when he said that he would contact her...si i have no way of responding.....wrong move from my end

JLG
what is a key logger? have no clue what that is.....oh yeah.....its very very hard for me to meet his EN right now....am really feeling very mad....there is alot of tension in the house right now, and carrying out a decent conversation is hard enough....let alon SF...

OK, here is what i wanted to do when i get home:
1. ask him why he did not send the letter to OW stating NC
2. ask him why he changed his email passwords?
3. request total honesty from him....including access to his mobile number PIN, email passwords etc
4. request that he sends the NC in my presence

Question is....what if he says NO to the above.....can i humbly request him to leave since i cannot live with a dishonest person?...i have read Plan A and Plan B....but I just cant figure out how it applies to this specific situation....can somebody help please?

I am not an expert but Plan A is all about this situation.

You (know) he's not being honest. Maybe he didn't had a PA, but he definetly is lying about this "girl". Even in the "best"case, if he only talked too much with her (EA?), he might believe himdelf, it's just a "friendship", and he has to right to have his own personal life... friendships, that you better don't know of because you'd never understand... well, fog.

The fact is, he is lying, hiding, it will lead no no good.

Plan A, show him the best of you and the best of family life. Work on you, a better you. I know how hard it is, but it's very important. Please read Plan A.

CONTINUE snooping, you have to find out, and sonner or later you'll have it.

Be nice and calm. He will most probably react with anger... because in his mind you being nice is against his self justifications to have these "relatioships".

There are three ways:

FIRST:

1. Ask him nicely if he sended that mail, if not tell him, all you want is to feel you can really trust hi, and since he's being honest, you TWO write the e-mail. Plain and simple.

2. Nicely tell him that where is trust there's no secrets, that the fact he changed the passwords it's not honest. Ask him to give you in that very moment to access the e-mail and change passwords. There he has, a GOOD chance to proof he's not hiding anything.
YOU MUST BE STRONG. He’ll tell you he has the right to his own privacy and whatever. Don’t let go until you two access the e-mail.

3. After two, if it goes well, yes, ask him all his passwords.

4. Yes, mentioned on number2.

You have a small chance that he decides to come clean.
I don’t believe he will, honestly. He’ll probably denied it to you or he will give you everything and create a new account to e-mail OW.

SECOND:

Ask those questions softly, pretend to believe everything he says and tell him you are tired of no trusting, you love him and your marriage will die a slow death without honesty, and tell him you REALLY NEED/ WANT to trust completely again. Develop a plan, ask for his help on how to achieve it.

In this option, he will eventually believe you trust him and wont take many precautions.


THIRD:

Don’t mention anything, BE NICE, LOVING, PLAN A, Read HIS NEEDS HER NEEDS, and Keep snooping till you find anything.

Depending on how fogged he is, I’d go this way, based on my own experience and after one year on MB.

The good thing in all this so far is that this OW is in another country, so you don’t have to worry that much about him meeting her personaly.



About the keylogger and that kind of things… Create a new post here on GQ, and I am sure someone will link you to any site where you can download that software.

Someone posted here a few months ago about a site where they hack boyh accounts, your H and OW, if you prove you only want it because you fear indidelity, and if you pay of course. It looked nice
Found the link!!!


http://www.knowthetruth.info/


keep posting and updating and wiser and more experienced people will advice you more.

BE STRONG. We know how hard it is. But if you want to save your M and your family intact, your came to the right place. It’s a long path, a hard one.

I'll tell you how it was with me the first tme. I was trying to access his e-mail, because he retorned different from business trip. We were about to leave home, he going to work and me taking the girls to some friends party.

He checked mail right before we go out, I had tried too many times, (he had changed the password, the one we chose together) so he got a message saying someone had tried to hack his account, he immediatly asked me if I had be the one... well, I coulnt lie so I said yes.

And said why (stupid me), so he calmly told me, why didnt you ask me for the password? He Opens the e-mail and there was an email from her! Nothing comprimising in that one.

He said, dont be silly, she's just a professional collegue, if you want I'll write her an e-mail for her not to contact me again,

He proceded to the door and told me the password when we were out of the house. Since we were leaving, I only asked, we both do it tonight when you get home, and made him promised we would do it and that he would not delete anything from there.


He took us to friends house and went to work.

As soon as I got home, I checked his e-mail... her mails were gone.

But there was a reply from her, on deleted box, to an e-mail he had sended to her right after he arrived to the office.

In that mail she said, ok to his request, and it had the copy of his mail atached wich was something like this:

WH to OW:

Please, mail me for professional reasons only. My wife found out about what happened in France, but she does not know about everything or any details.
So please lets just talk about me colaborating with your company for a while.
-----------------

Unfortunetly, I let him fool me, he denied anything had happened. And after the ONS he developed the EA with this OW, planning on meeting her on her country as soon as possible, never happened, but OW's came ont he way...

hope you can see HOW much and how good they are at lying.

Protect yourself. Eat well, Look for IC, you'll need it. Specially with young children.

on this site, search for

keylogger

look for keylogger what is it and how does it work thread

this was last posted to on 3/16/07

the "i can get anyones email password" site seems good but costs minimum $150. keyloggers are about $30-80 from what ive seen

also, you may want to delete your browsing history and all offline stuff too. this way he wont know what you are looking for, it all gets deleted - even the cookies.

i'll bump the keylogger thread

Hi guys.....thank you so so much for the tips.....ok, update here....i goofed major.....LBs galore from me....i took 2 glasses of wine to "steady my nerves"....and i dont drink, so you can imagine how the wine losened my tongue, oh well, the rest is history....we sat down to watch tv after i had put the kids to sleep. Then i asked him whether he had sent the email...he said yes...i asked why he did not copy me on the email, and he said that since HE was the one who recieved the mail...then only HE would send the NC....alone....without letting me know.
I lost it....i truly truly lost it....and i said things.....sigh.....how does one recover from major LBs?....i told him things that i had been keeping inside...and i know, its wrong....hands were flailing...for real. anyway, to cut a long story short, i told him that HE would be the one to put this marriage together again...i told him i had given up, and that i was not going to try again....oh my....then i stomped off and went to bed, crying...loudly...drama...anyway, this morning, i woke up, showered and left for work, together with the children....i left him asleep...which is not a good sign since he is always the first one up...i have no idea what time he left. I know for sure if i try talking to him he will not respond. I feel bad that i said the things i said. Now i dont know what to do. He will not talk to me any more. Oh yeah, mails to his gmail are bouncing back...which means he has probably closed that email account....i created a yahoo email and tried sending a message, but it also bounced....so if he is communicating with her, it is probably on his office email, or his phone...and right now, i am in no position to snoop....should i let things cool a bit?

apologize.

ok, thanks...i will try, but am not sure he will listen. do i still insist on the NC at this point, knowing that i potrayed myself as some sort of deranged woman last night?

marcy, you will be just fine. I don't think you were out of line at all. The one who needs to apologize is him, not you. I suspect you are living with a serial cheater and this will get worse unless and until there are some consequences. That means you stop apologizing for confronting him and tell him that you expect him to open up his life to you. Tell him this is the only way you can trust him. He needs to EARN trust, it is not an entitlement. So, tell him you will give him a chance to prove himself trustworthy, otherwise the marriage will not work.

Things he could do to earn your trust would be to give you the password to all his cellphone, voicemail accounts. He should share an email account with you so you can see all of his email and vice versa.

If he cannot demonstrate trustworthy behavior to you, you should look at seperation and then Plan B. But, I think you are looking at a life of repeat performances if you don't motivate him to change.


Never trust an untrustworthy person. Trust should not be afforded as a "resolution," but because it is WARRANTED. Trust must be EARNED. He does not sound trustworthy in the least to me, so it would be silly to afford him trust.

Of course you tell him you expect no contact. Marcy, stop being so hard on yourself. Being the victim of adultery is as traumatic as being RAPED, you are entitled to a little upset.

I would get a keylogger on his computer ASAP. Get eblaster and have the reports emailed to another email address that you can access remotely. That way, you only have to access his computer ONCE. Eblaster can be purchased at www.spectorpro.com

(((Mercy)))

Agree with Mel -- stop beating yourself up for being REASONABLY UPSET. You are completely entitled to feeling the way you do. His continuing with his secrecy is unacceptable.

Why don't you put a list of boundries together?
What you need from him to feel safe in this relationship, as well as specific actions from him.

Now -- this is NOT an ultimatum. If he violates your boundries, then you take action. But you don't threaten him with it.

Give him your list; and allow him to give you his -- what he needs from you. But trust is off the table for now. That has to be earned, not freely given.

This is not how trust works. You do not just stuff down your feelings and start blindly trusting somebody who has already screwed you over in the worst possible way. He is not entitled to trust from you. He had your trust and he wiped his butt with it. Of course he doesn't have your trust any more.


And with very, very, very good reason.


Translation: "Just shut up and look the other way and pretend you don't know about this so I can enjoy my cheating in peace, okay?"

And one other thing: Please don't get the idea that your husband is trying to "choose" between you and some other woman. He's not. He is one of those guys who we call a "cake-eater", because he wants to have his cake and eat it too - he wants the security of marriage while he's home AND he wants all the fun of dating while he's on the road.

He also sounds like a serial cheater.

Don't let him blame-shift this onto you and make it sound like it's somehow your fault. It's not. He is a man who has chosen the cake-eater lifestyle and is hoping he can bully you into going along with it.

Please don't fall for that.
Mulan

ooooh.....woke up to this morning and found support!!! thanks guys.....now you have introduced a very ominous word....serial cheater....and i think you are right. last night i kept thinking of living another 50 years in this kind of relationship and thought....na....a a...nada....you are right. something has to change. thanks lex, mel, mulan....thank you very much. i will have a word with him...this time, i will not goof. i cannot afford to. let me try and download the spyware. Thanks alot, i really needed to hear this. I will let you know the results of my conversation.