Hello Everyone,

The heading says it all.

I saw my WW last night for the forth time since we separated in Oct 2005. We are going through a very, very bitter D. More on that later.

The reason I saw her is b/c I have been trying to get the rest of my stuff from our house. We are set to close on it this Monday.

I thought the L had arranged for me to get in the house last night but actually it was supposed to be tonight so when showed up she was really surprised.

So here’s the deal. She was extremely nice to me. I mean she hadn’t been that nice to me in a long time. Not that she was all over me saying she loved me but she was very sweet. We didn’t talk about us or anything like that. It was mainly stuff about the house and her move this Monday.

But when I left I had this feeling like why the h*ll are we getting D? It felt like we were still together. Like we had been together all along. When we talked I could see it in her eyes. She seemed sincere in her words which I haven’t seen that part of her in years. I know actions speak louder than words but this seemed different. She told me I could stop by her new house which is something I never expected. I told her she looked good and she did the same for me. She texted me last night saying thanks for being so nice to her.

Again, I’m not suggesting that she wants to get back together but I wonder if she is second guessing herself. Of course I might be the one second guessing. Let me give a short history of what I believe has happened.

M 34
WW33
Married 10 years
Together 17 years
No Children

WW had EA sometime around 2000. I never recovered from it. She never thought she did anything wrong and I resented her for it.

Fast forward to 2005. We hired a personal trainer. I’m pushing her further away with the resentment I had from the EA and ultimately right into the hands of OM. Now I don’t know the details of what happened I just know she filed for legal separation in Oct 2005 and I was forced to leave the house. From what I remember I called a couple of times in the beginning but for the most part all contact was cut off. I mean to the point I started getting my hair cut by another stylist. I didn’t want her to know anything about me and I didn’t want to know anything about her.

So as I stated earlier we are in a bitter D. I truly believe it is because of her father. He has been D three times engaged another and just remarried this past year. He is extremely wealthy and very controlling. He has been controlling her most of her life. I could be completely wrong about this but I believe when my WW said she wanted a D he took over and since has had the mind set to screw me as hard as he can. At least that’s what happening.

And here’s another kicker. I feel like I never attempted to save the M. When we split I went my way and she hers. I guess I feel like if there’s a time to try and salvage this M this might be a good time to do it.

So what do you think? I haven’t really considered reconciliation b/c I never thought there was a chance. And I’m saying I have a chance I’m just saying if there ever was a time to act, now might be the time.

Any thoughts or advice appreciated.

Anyone who's seen my posts over the past couple of years knows I'm pro-marriage, but one must leaven that with some hard, objective analysis at times. I think this is one of those occasions. You and your WW have no children, and she’s cheated on you twice. Dr. Harley has give solid advice on both of those circumstances and neither of them warrant a very positive outlook, for very good reasons.

So, let me make sure I’ve got this straight. Your WW committed adultery and refused to let the marriage recover from it, she engaged in a second adultery, bailed out of the marriage and kicked you out of your home, instructed her attorney to go for the throat in the divorce proceedings and has been fighting you tooth and nail in the court system ever since? Is that about it?

Then, out of the blue, she's halfway decent to you one evening and all of a sudden, you go all dewy-eyed and daydreams of a last-minute reconciliation begin to consume you? You’re willing to accept the blame for not recovering from the first adultery and you’ll give her a get-out-of-jail card ‘cause her daddy is a meany. Excuse me?

Look, it’s fine to understand you may have contributed to an atmosphere in the home to the point where she felt justified in committing the second adultery. That’s great. Takes two to tango and all that, right?

BUT, just because the marriage was vulnerable doesn’t mean one of the partners has an invitation to betray one’s own integrity, the marriage vows, and the other partner. NOTHING on God’s green earth justifies adultery and the guilt for that infidelity is not yours to assume.

Frankly, that you were angry over her initial unfaithfulness is not wrong...and the fault for the failure of the marriage to recover lies primarily with her, not you. She’s not a doe-eyed teenager breaking up with her first boyfriend. She’s a woman nearing middle-age who was cruel and pitiless enough to go outside her marriage once and then (even knowing how much agony it cost you) to do it again. Think about that, pardner.

Okay, it’s true, you could have worked better to get her into counseling with you, apply MB principles, get the Harley’s involved in telephone counseling, or whatever. Unfortunately, that didn’t happen. But why do you presume it was up to YOU to recover from the betrayal all by yourself? Why are you willing to reinforce her idea she did nothing wrong in the first adultery? Why are you so willing to give her a pass on the second adultery? You barely mentioned it in your post. Actually, friend, she’s even more culpable than you are and I think it would be a very healthy thing for you to admit it. Quit ignoring the fact that she hasn’t acted honorably in anything about this.

Second, a 33-year-old woman who is still under Daddy’s thumb may not be the woman you want to be with in a relationship anyway. Even if Daddy did take over when she said she wanted a divorce, (a) she made the decision to get a divorce, and (b) she’s never reasserted control in the process to stop the bitter infighting. If your wife is 33-years-old and Daddy still has that kind of sway in her life to still be nurturing an attitude of entitlement and privilege (to have affairs) and a “no consequences” lifestyle; and if he can dictate how she’ll conduct the strategy of her own divorce, then she’s probably not mature enough to be your wife.

Pardner, your WW may indeed be rethinking what’s happening. But that doesn’t mean she’s willing to subject herself to the self-scrutiny and hard work it would take to salvage this marriage. Even in your own words, there is nothing to indicate she feels remorse for anything for which she bears responsibility.

She was “sweet” to you for a short time and thanked you later for being “sweet” to her? AND? SO WHAT? Man, it’s so very easy to be “sweet” for a short time and, look, an email to you is actually a pretty detached way of communicating appreciation for your failure to bring her misdeeds to her attention.

BE VERY, VERY CAREFUL that your feelings of loneliness and regret at "what might have been" do not overwhelm your common sense. You do so at your peril.

You have not, in fact, recovered from the emotional betrayal of her first adultery and certainly haven’t from the second one. Face it. Your WW is a serial cheater. Something in her character is badly deficient and it must be addressed before you should even CONSIDER getting back together. If you don’t...everything will just be lying there, waiting to pounce on you a few weeks, months, years later and you’ll have to go through the last few years all over again.

I’m a FWW and I feel that any M that can be saved should be, however that said it does not mean all M can or should be saved. Having children is a big incentive to try and rebuild a new life as can be long years together, or WW sickness at time of A, etc....but NOTHING excuses it.
In your circumstances I do think Longhorn has made some good points for you to consider.
That you feel you did not give your M a chance to recover and feel some ‘guilt’ or maybe regret is the correct term.... I want you to remember ... SHE made you leave the family home after her affair, you did not kick her out. You had virtually No chance to try & save your M. SHE did not allow it.
Was she under her fathers thumb? perhaps, but if so is that a person you want as a wife? I don’t know the ans to that its a question with no negative thought behind it, its for you to think through what’s happened since 2005.

If a WW or a perhaps FWW does not make any move to repair the damage she created then I would question her sincerity. She may not know how or know what she needs to do but usually she will be asking, seeking help etc. I don’t see that here from your post. Virtually no contact from her in 2 years?

This is hard for you because you had no say in the demise of the M, yes you may have contributed to the M getting where it was, or maybe you didn’t, but you did not choose to end it, she did. From what I have seen & did myself most WW declare quite openly the BS faults for all the world to hear, especially the BS. You say nothing about that.
Longhorn has pointed out based on your info that she seems to be a serial cheater so I have to wonder if she has simply always been a cheater? I also have to wonder with the lifestyle of her dad as you have detailed it if she has been brought up that way, that cheating is ok. I also wonder what her mother, one of her dads cast off wives (ok making assumption here), would say to it all?

She says thankyou for treating her with grace? I think its the least she can say and yes I do feel its her guilt talking. Is that anything to build on? Who knows.

Look long & hard at her behaviour, what has she done in the last 2 years? Has she had a boyfriend? or 2? or 10? Has she even told you that?
I’m not saying you cannot discuss the past with her if she will do so, perhaps its even good that you do that, maybe in a neutral place. Do that before you do anything at all.
How can you decide which way to go if she will not give you the info you need to make a decision?
Just be wary and very careful

Thanks ya'll for the much needed 2x4's.

I don't think I could have hit it more right on.

When I posted that I was running high on emotion or I was thinking with the wrong head! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

I knew deep down that when my WW and I split it was over. It's been a hard road but I wouldn't change any of it. I have learned so much about myself that I never knew. I am much stronger and a much better person cause of all of this.

In fact the small amount of time I spent with her I see she hasn't changed a bit. Literally, she is the same person from a year and half ago.

It's unfortunate that D happens but it's a fact of life, especially in todays soceity.

I'm young and I'll find somebody else but right now I'm not looking anytime soon. I enjoy finding the happiness I hadn't had for sometime.

Take care