Then do this, friend.

Tell your wife that you want to know about ALL of the ways that they communicated...up front, and honestly.

And then the two of you need to come up with ways to block all of those communication paths. ASAP. Change her numbers, change her email addresses, etc...

If she works with him...she needs to put in a leave of absence, or something along those lines...RIGHT NOW.

She won't want to do this...but tell her its really her only chance to truly give your marriage the chance it deserves over the next few months. Make it clear that you're expecting this to happen. Don't yell...but be firm. Take charge, gently.

Above all..stay calm! Also...how did DD react to all of this? Is SHE ok right now?

Brae:

Your Queston:

On a previous post you told me to start dating my wife again, this is hard as she does not want to interact with me and would rather avoid me. Any tips on how to handle this?


Did you want to date the most beautiful girl in High School?

She wouldn't give you the time of day? So you never asked?

So ask. She might say no. She might say yes.

And then ask again.

But have a plan. Get a sitter for DD. Where are you going to go. Place, time and activity. Time for new ones...

She might not agree, she might be sullen if you go out. Expect that.

Women want to be pursued. The OM did that. Slowly and over time. So you get to do it again.

And the date just might consist of drinks on the patio. To talk about???? Not relationships. Not OM. About DD. About Your Next family Vacation, About her work/hobbies/Mother/Father/Sisters/brothers Anyhting to make the connection back with her.

Exposure to DD?

Good. Destroys the fantasy.

You might see that WW comes around a little more quickly. You established a boundary. No moving out with OM and DD for WW.

Was it a bad night? Yes. But not really.

For the reasons above. You might look back in a month and realize that that night was a turning point.

And when I state, date your W. I mean, set something up and have a plan and ask her to go. If she says no, then you go out and drop off DD like you planned at the sitter. And then, set it up again for the next weekend and ask here again. Do this for four weeks. This is the BIG Date. Make the pleasent, evening dates on the patio as seemingly unplanned as possible. That gets her comfortable with you again. The BIG dates get you further along in the process...

Sorry about her calling OM. The clocks start over, yes. But the pressure on your WW will build, and as long as she sees you as an alternative, and a better than old H alternative, her pressure to call OM will decrease.

OM was a support for her, her outlet She could be "Honest" with him. Because the whole premise of thier relationship was dishonest, she could tell him anything. And the future, it really didn't matter. Anything your W tells you now, or in the past, can come back to bite her now. You need to help her feel safe, That she isn't getting "bit" when she is honest with you. Not fog babble, or rewriting history, but when she does describe, clearly, honestly and openly, what was going on.

That made all the difference in the world in surviving my Dday. My W knows what was going on during my A now. She has questions, I have answers. And she has made the changes to allow me to be safe with her. The me during the A is not the me now. You need to get to this place in order to truly start recovering your M.

I'm not saying that my W has forgotten, or buried the emotions, but we have figured out what was going on between us, and what was wrong with me and fixed it. We have exploded many of the land mines that were planted between us as H & W. THere may be more. When we step on one, we know how to make sure we disarm it, not blow it up. A skill we never had before.

Agree that you should change the phone # yourself. I would seriously consider exposing the affair, braeworth. Sooner rather than later. I think in your case it would stop this dead in its tracks whereas, if you wait, this is going to get worse as they find better and sneakier ways to contact each other. This will further entrench the affair. You would be amazed at the sneaky methods they can come up with.

Exposing at work would put him on notice and that is what needs to happen. He needs to know there will be serious consequences for contact.

Do you know this for a FACT or is this something your wife told you?

You are on a slippery slope right now...a VERY dangerous time...you must fight for her to maintain NC. Do not negotiate...and watch closely. Think about exposing. I know you believe your wife...have a wonderful history together...etc...but right now do not believe a word she says...when the WS is in this state you would be shocked at how they can lie to maintain the relationship. The other man has awoken something in her that she feels she has not felt in a long time...it is going to be very difficult for her to give it up. Good luck...you are going to need it.

Thanks Owl, Lousygolfer, ML.
So much information and helpfull advice.
Yes it was a really bad night!!
DD is ok this morning, although worried and upset.

ML. I think exposing at work may drive her further away, i really thought she was going to go last night.

Mel-

We've GOT to stop agreeing all the time. People are gonna start talking!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

braeworth, exposure actually has the opposite effect because it causes huge conflict in the affair. It is no fun to have an affair when everyone is looking. Affairs thrive on secrecy and when exposed, it ruins all the fun and hastens its death. It is like turning on the lights in a crack house and bringing in an audience!

She is already pushed away right now and getting further away with each contact. Evry time he contacts her, he has the power to destroy any progress you make towards recovery, which puts you BOTH back to Day 1 of recovery. And there is nothing to stop him, brae, because there are no consequences. The suggestion I make will likely kill the thing that is causing that detachment. If she really wanted to leave, she would have done this already.

Owl <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Did you see my ? about the OM's wife?

ML. Thanks again. I know you know a lot more about these things than i do. I am listening. I just need to think long and hard.
I think she was going last night. DD involvement stopped her

Realize this, Brae.

She might go. If she chooses to, you can't stop her. But, you CAN ensure that if she does go, it's not the picnic she dreams it will be. And you can make that clear to her up front, as you've already been advised. Make sure she knows that if she chooses to do that, she goes alone, without DD. She goes on her own, with NO finances from the marriage, or support from you of ANY kind. She goes, and she not only loses you as a husband, but as a friend, or as ANY part of her life.

My wife was all set to get on a plane to go live with OM...whom she'd never met in person. She moved out of the house and into a motel while she was waiting for the day of her flight. The day before she was set to fly, I wrote her a letter, outlining all of the things she was going to lose/change if she got on that plane. I told her that if she went, there was no coming back. That she'd miss out on all of these things (I listed a bunch of stuff)...because I'd never support her, I'd never accept her back into my life again. I told her she'd have to choose which events she wanted to attend with the kids, and which ones I'd attend...because I'd never want to be in the same room with her again. I told her that she knew deep down in her heart that she could NEVER bring OM anywhere near me...because while she fantasized about all of us being friends someday, she KNEW that if he and I met, it would be a complete disaster ending terribly.

That letter, and the conversation we had the morning of her flight about that was an eye opener. She started to see what things were REALLY going to be like if she left...and our kids gave her a taste of that already too. They told her she could go, but that they would NEVER live with her and OM... She had hoped that I'd still be her friend...but then realized that I wouldn't accept that, and that OM wouldn't accept it either.

I'd bet that your wife has some similar fantasy about what things will be like if she takes off to live with OM. I'd suggest that when/if that conversation comes up, you ask if she's thought about what would happen if she did...and outline the kinds of things I've talked about here. Its time to break that fantasy with a little bit of harsh reality.

Again...do NOT go ballistic during any of these conversations...talk quietly, so she's forced to LISTEN for what you're saying. Be open and honest...but don't be angry, no matter what she says/does.

Owl. Thanks again. Good stuff. I did make a start on that kind of thing last night, but maybe i need to go further, like you did

braeworth, if you can only keep her there by not interfering in her affair and doing everything you can to save your marriage, then she was gone anyway. Keeping her there at any and all cost is not the answer if it means she is free to carry on her affair without consequences. Your greatest chance of saving your marriage comes from disrupting this affair, NOT in appeasing her at all costs and sitting silently while this affair continues. Your marriage can survive some temporary anger from exposure, it can't survive this affair.

Do you see what this one little contact has done to you? To her? You are back to D-day all over again EXCEPT WORSE because she has broken your trust...AGAIN. And unless there are some decisive actions to stop this from happening, it will happen again and again. You will die a death of a thousand cuts and in a few months of this he11, we will be discussing how to get her out of the house so you can go into Plan B before you lose your mind from dealing with her affair. It is so much better to take decisive action BEFORE it ever gets to that point. So, think on that.

Knowing what I know, if I were in your shoes and wanted to save my marriage, I would do this:

1. quietly move the bulk of your money to another account temporarily

2. make up an exposure list that consisted of:
employer
parents
close siblings
close friends
OM's W and parents

3. expose the affair in one fell swoop to those people

4. get into marriage coaching with Steve Harley

The greatest threat to this marriage is the affair, and if you don't protect yourself, this will head towards divorce.

I don't know any details of OM wife. He is no longer with her and does not live in the same town as him. I wouldn't know how to contact her. She probably wouldn't be bothered, she did the same to him.

IF your WW or POS OM told you this ignore it. They are by nature liars. She may very well care and they may have children together??? If so, she may put pressure on him from that standpoint whether they are together or not.

Brae:

You state this:

I don't know any details of OM wife. He is no longer with her and does not live in the same town as him. I wouldn't know how to contact her. She probably wouldn't be bothered, she did the same to him.

But YOU HAVE NOTHING TO BASE THIS ON!

Your WW is having intimate conversations with another man. Possibly even sex.

And your afaid of finding out about this man who is doing it to you.

At least offer to give him some vaseline so it doesn't hurt as bad....

(OOPS, another 5 iron...)

MY OW would tell me that her husband was a Gun collector, crazy, lazy, physically and verbally abusive, etc. What did I know? I only knew what she told me, and I wasn't going to call him up to verify....

But guess what?

You should! And do it today.

Because as Mel and Owl have so clearly indicated, it will destroy this affair.

If the OM W has done all the things you say, (as told to you by WW) and you call her up, and she says, "Yes, I did do all those things" and she does nothing else, what have you lost? NOTHING!

However, if you call her up and she says, "OMG, I thought we were happily married and I NEVER thought my H could do such a thing"

What type of Evening do you think OM will have now? Something similar to your past month? (as an aside, wouldn't that be great?)

Even if the answer from OM'W is somewhere in the middle, who cares? You now KNOW.

And if OM's 11 year old daughter answers the phone? No, you don't tell her, but guess what, she is about to find out about....

Not your problem, it was HIS choice.

And reveal it to the persons that can make the most difference.

Will your WW leave? Maybe. But do you want this WW as your W?

Let her feel the heat of bad choices....

LG is dead on Brae...

braeworth, the reason we are pushing you about the OM's wife is because it is very typical for the affairees to LIE about their spouse. Men lie because they don't want to chance exposure. Women usually portray their H as satan ["abusive" blah, blah, blah] so the OM will feel sorry for her. This is the rule, rather than the exception.

Now, it may be true that they are divorced and she moved in with another guy, but if this intel came from your wife, it is likely a LIE that was manufactured by the OM.

An easy way to find out is diguise your # using *67 and call the house. See who is on the answering machine. If a woman answers, you can ask if it is his wife and, if so tell her about the affair. But, you might be able to get some information this way.

Either way, the existance of a wife needs to be ruled in or out, because if this man is married, you are carrying a HUGE WEAPON that can be used against this affair. The biggest one in your whole arsenal.

Okay. Okay. I get the message. I am sure that he is divorced but i will try and get some more information and try to track her down