I'm questioning if the risks I'm taking in trying to reconcile w/ my WW are worth it. I wonder, is the love for me that I'm trying to win back from my WW going to be the real thing? According to MB principles, the failure to have ENs met are what drives spouses to stray outside their marriages. If a spouse is this weak to begin with, and they don't return to their M out of sincere remorse and repentance of what they've done to their BS, but instead only return to the M b/c they "fall in love" again w/ their BS,...who's to say the WS won't commit adultery again???

My fear in recovering is that if I again fail to meet her ENs (I'm only human), that she'll break my heart again. I fear that my WW won't recommit to me and our M out of genuine love for me. I believe true love is totally unconditional. True love gives, at great personal sacrifice sometimes, without any strings attached, without any expectations, but out of a sincere willingness to make someone else happy. True love in a M is a lifelong commitment to one another, "for better OR WORSE", NOT "for as long as we make each other feel good".

I fear that the MB way of salvaging a M from an A will result in my WW never giving me true love. She will only remain in the M as long as I make her "feel good", and keep the "spark/romance" alive. I don't know if I can continue to do that for the rest of our lives! What if I have to make a career change and go back to school? What if we lose a child? There are so many things that can cause me to fail to meet her ENs, things I believe will justifiably prevent me from meeting her ENs for a time. Will my W then return to a WW b/c her love for me isn't REAL???

I hope what I'm posting here makes sense. I get the feeling sometimes from reading Dr. Harley's teachings that there is no such thing as true love, that we can "fall in love" w/ just about anyone!?

I believe your WW loves you. The A happened not because she didn't love. I say that because she didn't leave you but she choose to cheat. Not saying that makes it ok, but most people don't intend to leave their families when they cheat they are only tring to get a need met. Everything we as humans do we do for a reason.

I am sorry she hurt you. I know that the only way to assure she doesn't cheat again is for you all to talk to each other and be honest without LBing and when you keep the lines of communication open and honest it keeps every grievance on the table. I don't know you all's story but I do know from my own experiences that it feels good to have someone give you the attention that you have been tring to get from your spouse for a while. Temptation by any other name would not smell as sweet. My momma always use to tell me that trouble is real easy to get into, but very hard to get out of. It suppose to feel good or else it would not tempt you. You find the temptation very alluring untill you taste that first bite of apple then you realize that no matter how good it tasted when you took that bite it was not worth the high price you had to pay in the end.

You know your wife and you have to gage if she has learned her lesson and or the pain she brought into all of your lives' to really consider if she would do it again.

I believe true loves exists I think sometimes we just can't see the forest for the trees until you run into them. By the time you run into the forest you hope it's not to late to redem yourself.

I can tell you if you don't deal with you pain in IC you are not only going to doubt her but if you leave her you will doubt the next woman that comes into your life.

SadPunk, which Harley books have you read?

Sad:

My H and I have been in RECOVERY for almost 4 years. Better said, we are DEFINITELY RECOVERED. I'm POSITIVE he LOVES ME and I definitely LOVE HIM because...as Steve Harley, described it to me, LOVE IS A VERB and WE DEMONSTRATE our LOVE for each other DAILY. What's more REAL than that..to actually SEE LOVE IN ACTION?



I agree with Mel about your need to better understand the basic concepts. It's a matter of LOVE DEPOSITS. Our LOVE FOR EACH OTHER was not MAGICAL. It was and is based on us MAKING DEPOSITS INTO EACH OTHERS' LOVE BANKS. Also, it's important to buy into the MB NOTION of the A as being an ADDICTION. Yes, the WS is weak but becomes ADDICTED to the OP or rather to the DRUG that the AFFAIR PRODUCED..which is much like that MAGICAL, FANTASIZED FEELING OF LOVE. That is not the kind of LOVE that is LASTING or you as the BS wants to reproduce. Upon Recovery, the WS returns to a REAL LOVE that is based on ACTUAL LOVE DEPOSITS. My H returned because he was able to SEE that I REALLY love him...not the PHONY, FANTASY LOVE of the A relationship.

Commit adultery again? Possible, of course, but NOT LIKELY in our relationship. Because, again as recommended by Steve Harley, I give my MARITAL RELATIONSHIP TOP PRIORITY IN MY LIFE. MEETING MY H'S NEEDS IS A TOP PRIORITY and now that he is IN LOVE with me again it is the same for him. Steve likened it to exercise....WORK OUT DAILY TO BUILD UP YOUR ENDURANCE AND IT WILL BECOME SECOND NATURE. I PERSONALLY TELL MYSELF THAT I HAVE TO EXERCISE JUST LIKE I HAVE TO BRUSH MY TEETH...same with TAKING CARE OF MY HUSBAND. It is what I have to do to live the kind of life that I want to live...and this is what GOD WANTS ME TO DO (Proverbs 31 woman)..that's another whole story...

See what I mean?

Though I haven't fully read every article written in Marriage Builders, one thing I have immersed myself in lately is God's Word - specifically reading what it means to be faithful, characteristics of an adulteress (Proverbs 6, 7) and one thing I've learned about my own behavior is that I've needed to repent from LUST.

LUST is what enticed Eve to take the "forbidden fruit".
Read this: "So when the woman SAW that the tree was good for food, that it WAS PLEASANT (a desirable thing).....she took of its fruit and ate".
Lust is what drives men to commit adultery, commit gluttony, covet, etc. Lust is a sin. Lust is simply desiring, wanting, and longing for what is not ours to have.
There were so many other trees in that garden that Eve could have focused on when temptation came but she thought of what she lacked and wanted more.

Pray that your wife choose FAITHFULNESS, not LUST. Pray that, "sin will not have dominion over her" (Romans 6:14 or Psalm 119:133). These are prayers I am praying over myself.
Pray that her heart will LONG, DESIRE, AND WANT the courts of God's presence.....because truthfully, you will not meet her core soul/spirit needs. You weren't designed to do that - only God. Once she is filled with God's presence, He will guide her into ALL TRUTH....the truth that says loving her husband is right, possible, and praiseworthy.

Do your best to love her in the ways she will receive - make those love deposits. Give. And when you don't have the strength to keep giving....go back to the TRUE GIVER... who will fill your love tank again so you can fill hers.

God bless


Does true love exist? Yes....because God IS LOVE. Without Him, there is no love.

AND I fully agree with the religious viewpoint of C..

Beautiful post...

Thanks DIG, I hadn't thought of how the fact my WW didn't leave me for this OM shows that she still loves me to some degree. Though now, after D-day, she responded by moving out. I'm still not sure why, it could be out of shame & guilt, or possibly yet another man (the initial A ended Sept. 06, D-Day was this Jan.), or that my discovery gave her the final push out the door as she had one foot out the door of our M already for a very long time. Anyway...

I've read SAA, and am readng HNHN. I have a big problem with SAA stating not to expect an apology. Dr. Harley never talks about remorse in that book, and I as a FWH cannot see myself wanting to remain married to my WW if she never repents! I know different people handle things differently, but still, at some point in recovery, there's gotta be an apology and some amends, no??

When I confessed on my own to my W about my past philandering (over 9 years ago), I was extremely remorseful, willing to do anything to make things right. I can understand my WW not displaying this to me now, but will she ever? Should I make that a condition of reconciliation?

Thanks C358 for that reminder! Guess today I'm getting into a little fog of my own, getting discouraged about regaining my W's true love.

I'm a born-again believer, and have prayed that the Lord convicts my wife to repent to HIM 1st before she returns to me and our M. You are so right, she has to restore her fellowship w/ the Lord to regain true happiness in this life, NOT return to me seeking what I can never fulfill in her life.

Thanks for the Scripture references too, I'll be sure to go study those and listen to God's wisdom.

SadPunk:

Listen to Mimi.

Dr Harley does speak of a different way of doing things.

Because the way you were doing things resulted in your Affair and your Wifes Current or just past A.

So, that plan doesn't work does it?

The Lovebank Concept?

Made a lot of sense to me. I used to tell the W about "husband points", and she scoffed. Then she learned about the Lovebank. Made a huge difference. And we can compare balances now. Interesting.

True Love?

No, maybe not. Can it be manufactured, and then maintained?

You betcha!

I think my M now is proof of that....

Will your W ever apologize?

Sure. When she is ready to.

Have you seen the line: "The beatings will stop when morale improves!"

Have you improved the environment so that she feels welcome?

Why not?

JMHO

LG

One of the hardest things about continuing Plan A is ignoring how unrepentant my WW is, or actually, not repentant enough. She has shown some small signs of remorse here and there, but not an all out realization of the extent of her sin. I know I must be patient, that it'll take time to get my account in her Love Bank overflowing. It's just getting there that's hard.

I sure do pray for the day where she will repent and truly tell me she's sorry. Lousygolfer, I have been trying to make our house as welcoming as possible. She still gets the kids from school most days and hangs out at home and cooks dinner for us.

So, we'll see. In the end, I have to see her truly love me like I want her to before I completely trust her again and take her back.

So if she's still in an affair WHY are you expecting remorse of repentance?

I think SAA says an apology isn't necessary but that is an individual choice. I sure could not have recovered without one.

Agree with BigK, it is an individual choice. I would not have accepted my H back if there had not been a heartfelt apology and evidence of remorse. It took that to gain my interest and agreement to allow him to come back. Every BS has to decide for himself what they will or won't accept.

Sad,

I agree with Mel and BigK if my FWW didn't repent I don't think I could have stayed married.

To me there are two kinds of love, conditional and unconditional.


I have unconditional love for my children. I beleive that to be true love.

I have conditional love for my FWW which I also believe to be true love.

The EN's that we fill are the conditions we must meet for the Spouse to be happy. If not met then .....

With open and honest communication if the LB is getting low or even if a need changes the M can remain dynamic and the LB can remain full.

So if my FWW fills my needs she meets the conditions necessary for me to have the feeling of True Love and vice versa I hope.

But the repentance does not come during PLAN A...She remains ADDICTED...understanding and accepting the ADDICTION is ESSENTIAL...

It comes AFTER WITHDRAWAL..

After the FOG has lifted..

Withdrawal can last up to 6 months or more after NC with the OP...

It took a full year for my H to be seem HIGHLY remorseful and repentant...

The FIRST MAJOR AND IMPORTANT STEP is NO CONTACT with the OP...the DECISION to maintain the NC FOR LIFE...

Maybe I'm getting too philosophical...but frog's comments are what I'm not sure I want, if all this work ahead of me will be worth it in the end.

Another scenario, what if we "recover", and I get into a bad car wreck and end up in a coma for a year. Or I get framed for a crime and go to jail for a year. Should I then not expect my wife to stay faithful b/c I won't be able to meet her ENs and keep my bal. in her LB full enough? If that's the case, then I don't want that type of conditional love.

Yes, I do know there is such a thing as true love for one's children, as no matter what they do, I will always love them the same, unconditionally. But b/w husbands & wives, I'm not so sure.

There were certain things that Steve Harley stated that I "had to get" about MBers. One was the MB VIEWPOINT that LOVE BETWEEN SPOUSES IS NOT UNCONDITIONAL...LOVE IS A VERB...

Did you agree with or understand my post about the LOVE DEPOSITS?



I FOCUS on the PRESENT..TODAY..cause "WHO KNOWS WHAT THE FUTURE HOLDS?" Certainly..some bad..but I will HAVE FAITH and LOOK FORWARD to all of our good times.

In anticipation for the bad times, FOCUS ON FILLING UP THE LOVE BANK SO THAT IT'S OVERFLOWING....

I actually agree with what Sad is saying. I believe that one should be able to expect that their spouse will be there for them regardless.

Think about it for a minute. Just because one is not available for a bit shouldn't mean that it is now open season on the marriage and it's affair time. If a person goes to war, or is severily injured or some other factor, one shouldn't have to worry about whether or not their spouse remains faithful because they can't make deposits in a love bank.

Love is indeed a verb. It is an action, not a feeling. Meaning that even if you don't feel like it, you do it anyway. That is a two way street that BOTH spouses should be on. Each one giving 100% to their spouse regardless of what their spouse does.

The Bible talks about a husband loving his wife as Christ loves the church and vice versa. However, I never read where it says to do it only as long as they are meeting your needs and if your needs are not being met then go ahead and have your needs met by someone else.

The saying that marriage is hard work was coined for a reason. It is in fact hard work. Sometimes you dont' want to do it, but you do it anyway. I think a concept of "love me as long as I meet your needs" is a shallow concept that is truly based on selfishness. It's a "as long as I am happy, I'll be a good spouse". Whatever happened to "I'll love you through better or worse, sickness and health, richer or poorer?

Of course it's important that our needs are met by our spouses. In fact, there are some needs that can/should ONLY be met by our spouses. But just because a need doesn't get met, shouldn't mean a green light to go out and have an affair. And I know that isn't what anyone is saying, but in a way, that is the excuse that is given to the Wayward Spouse. "Well their needs werent' met so they cheated". In a way, even though they are responsible for their own actions, it is almost excusing their behavior.

I'm probably not making much sense right now, but in short, I do agree with where Sad is coming from.

SP
Depends what you mean by true love.

Earnest prayers in tears in my knees even hasn't been able to remove my love for my Squid. When she was so vicious in her affair, I could have divorced her easily if only I loved her as she deserved instead of how my heart desired.

Is what I have for Squid true love ? The devotion to wrestle the VERY devil and humble myself for her sake when she was at her least deserving ?

Or is that first flush of attraction and addiction "true love" ? If so every affair is "true love" 'cos thats what gets the knickers dropped.

Or is mutual serventhood true love? Investing in making the other happy , sometimes against our own instinct just because it pleases us ?

Whatever true love IS, have no fear that your W can never love you again. Affairs are addictions that cause temporary insanity. Squid was as nasty as most WS, back in the day, but she loves me, and is a great wife and mother once again now.

Study MB, and pray , if that is something of value to you, and apply both MB and God's word to your sitiation and JUST SEE what transpires.