The Latest Update,

Thanks for your advice it sounds good and after writing so many posts and not getting anything back its encouraging.

WW has gone back to her mothers tonight that's 2 days on the trot. She comes back at around 6:30 unless I'm at work and its even earlier. I locked her out yesterday, pure accident left the key in the door. I shouldn't be laughing as she woke me up to let her in. We have spoken the past couple of days without any LB's and I've spoken to Steve Harley. He still wants to speak to my WW and I think curiosity is getting the better of her.

Since I told her about the Tax credits she has cancelled them I think, at least she said she was.

With regards the OM's father, Steve reckons its not worth sending the letter as I've already spoken to him on the phone. He says he'll just protect his corner.

I'm not giving up the house, so I'm now standing my ground and have told her if you push this through the courts then, she will have to live with the guilt and if she takes the kids to see OM and they get upset then that's her fault and she will have to deal with the consequences.

One thing I did come to understand after speaking to a vicar is that she still hasn't told a sole. I told her sister, my family, our friends and her work, she told one friend. She can't be too sure of her position, even though she babbles on about us being separated.

The story continues....

Until next time

Just curious but why have you only been married for 3 years?
You have 2 children together, why didn't you marry their mother until 3 years ago?

She fell pregnant early on in our relationship, so we concentrated by spending all our money on a new house and ensuring the children had everything they needed. That meant we didn't have the money to get married, but stayed engaged with the intention of getting married. With no extra money from our families the cost of getting married was somewhat expensive.

The reason I ask is that I would have a lot of resentment towards a man who didn't marry me...for whatever reasons.

The cost for getting married is usually a license.
I think you're talking more about the cost of a "wedding".

You can get married without a wedding. Does she resent you for this delay? I would feel disrespected.

I'm just considering that this may be an underlying cause of her affair...

She doesn't resent me for cost of the wedding. In fact I wanted to get married more than she did. Thats because her first H treated her so badly and she was put down all the time and lost a lot of self esteem. I have done nothing but encourage her and get her to believe in herself. She fell pregnant 4 months into our relationship. Neither of us wanted to look at abortion as I had a good job and whatever the outcome we took responsibility for our actions.

In the 9 years we have been together, she was diagnosed with epilepsy, I lost both my parents and my job and both our boys have been taken taken to hospital one for kidney infections and one for febrile convulsions. So we have been through a lot together and our relationship has got stronger. We always said to one another how much we loved each other and how we missed each other when we went to work.

My understanding of why we are in the position is because of the amount of hours I've had to work in my current job to maintain my old salary and because we agreed to go on holiday to Florida with all her family. Along with the fact all my wifes work colleagues moved offices when they downsized her company had some effect. In the last 6 weeks before she told me of her feelings I had only 4 days off. Two of those I help my brother move house, one I spent with my boys and one I spent with the family. The last days I had off were 4 days in between Christmas and New Year. I thought I was doing what she wanted by bringing in the money for the family, but I can't mind read and if she doesn't say anything I'm thinking everything is ok. I have to admit that I was always asking for sex. I would turn affection into a grope, as do a lot f men. I now understand thats not what women want. The more I read the more I understand.

Anyway she has come home tonight and the last couple of days have been ok no LB's which is nice.

Another update,

Came home from work and WW was very offish. She was ok this morning when I left after she returned from staying at her mothers. I think she went to see her solicitor today as I saw a note about a 10:30 appointment, but she has denied it. The change in her makes me think she did go and see her solicitor as she isn't filing for divorce as she says she has no grounds. I have asked her repeatedly to speak to Steve Harley but she now refuses point blank.She has now asked that I contact my cousin who's house I was staying at for her to move in as she says I'm starting to annoy her. She is taking the kids with her and intends to sleep on the settee.

I have told her that deep down she still loves me and regardless of what she has said she still loves me. She is quick to add "was in love not any more".

I can't stop her taking the kids but I'm worried how they will take this.

I need some good examples or reverse babble.

It is her problem to make arrangements to accomodate herself and to make proper provision for the children I am gobsmacked to see that she thinks she can dump herself and her children on a relative of yours and I am double gobsmacked that she expects you to negotiate that situation for her

It is definitely not your responsibility.

Stop/Don't enable this woman. Do not negotiate a deal with your relative for her to move out of your house. Do not allow her to take the children anywhere, get an attorney ASAP.

I received a text message last night from my cousin who said he wouldn't be comfortable with my WW stay at his house and that it was too small. I passed the message on to my WW but got no reply.

We had another argument last night before I went to work. My WW has decided to fight for the house. When I tell her that OM can't deliver anything she hits the roof and tells me he will. Apparently he is waiting for her and if her plans don't work out they are moving to their plan B, whatever that is. I keep getting the guilt card thrown at me about the kids being forced out of the house. I've told her I'm not forcing anyone out. If she takes them out then that's her fault and not mine. I've told her I'm not leaving the house and if she wants to be with OM then she has to go and get it, but they are not creating their life on the back of what we have created. I'm constantly being told I'm bullying her in to staying.

I went to work fuming and annoyed I had been drawn into another argument.

Question for FWW

Did any of you take your kids to live with OM or to meet OM and if so what how did your kids behave and was it difficult for you and your children.

I ask this because my WW keeps threatening to do this and I now think she might be serious regardless of WS fog.

HAF,

I have a question for you. If your WW died today, would your kids move somewhere else? I mean, would they go live with your parents or something? Or, as their father, would they continue living with you--while you work full-time--and you would find some alternative arrangements such as a sitter or au pair?

I just find it AMAZING that you are letting a fogged-out wayward tell you what is going to occur with your children! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> As their FATHER and PARENT, why are you not standing up for them and giving them some stability in their lives?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Let me create for you another picture. My new DH has five children, and at the time of his WexW's A, he still had 3 at home: 8, 10, and 16. While SHE ran around and went through men like water, and "stayed on friends' couches", and moved every couple of months, my new DH knew that the kids would be damaged by such an unstable life. He stayed in the marital home--the home where the kids had their beds and their toys--and HE took care of them by himself! He worked graveyard shift (11pm-7am) at the hospital, got home and woke up the kids for school, made lunch for them while they got dressed, drove them to school at 8am, slept at home from 8am-3pm, picked up the kids from school, helped with homework, made dinner, did dished, then went to work 11pm-7am! Was it easy?? HECK NO!!! Being a single parent is extremely hard!! But the kids needed someone in their life that they knew was stable. They needed a place that was their home. And my DH rose to the challenge!!

HAF, do not let your fogged-out, unstable, self-centered, not-thinking-clearly wayward wife drag your kids all over the countryside because SHE wants to break her vows and commitments and create chaos in HER life. One of the consequences of choosing an A over a M is that the WS loses at least HALF of the time with their children...IF NOT MORE.

KEEP YOUR KIDS AND FIGURE OUT A WAY TO BE THERE FOR THEM!!! If she wants to run to OM, she does NOT take the kids with her down into the pit of mire. They are safely at THEIR HOME, in THEIR BEDS, with THEIR FATHER. PERIOD.

I can not say this strongly enough. Man up! Do what you MUST DO as the father of these children!!!

Your true and faithful friend,



CJ

P.S. Do not answer back with how many ways it can't be done. Instead, challenge yourself to respond with ways that maybe it COULD be done!

Hi CJ,

In reply to your message I have no one to look after my children except my WW parents. I have no parents of my own and only one brother who lives nearby. I can't afford to pay for a child minder and pay all the bills on the house. The only thing I could do is have joint custody of my kids while I'm not at work, which would mean my WW leaving the kids with me on my days off.

I already clean the house, wash the dishes, clean their clothes and iron them as well as looking after the house so that it is a happy and secure place to live. My IL's would not help me and certainly wouldn't go against their own daughter regardless of what she has done. In fact I now don't hear anything from any of her family, who were quite supportive to me when they first found out. It appears everyone except me believes the marriage is over.

If that is the case, so be it, but I'm not giving up my home which I've built up so she can build another life on the back of mine.

I will not speak to her about Steve Harley, MB concepts, FWW or BS actions or any other matter regarding rebuilding our marriage. If she wants to reconcile we will talk. Until then I will be polite and civil to her and continue to show my boys how much I love them.

I will wait to see if any court order forces me out of my home.

I will just watch her actions from now on, period.

HAF

In my case I had made some arrangements in case Squid's affair didn't end.

* I arranged for another job in a country without an extradition treaty with a local sponsor

* I arranged for somewhere temporary to live in that country for me and my kids

* I set up new parallel personal bank accounts and left just enough in the joint account per month to pay the bill commitments. Squid had no claim or access to my new accounts.

* I secured my kids passports

* I could have effected all this change with a half dozen phone calls and gone to a ne wlife where she couldn't touch us. I have only in the last year let that stand down.

All of this was far easier than you might imagine.

OM was not going to meet my children in any capacity other than random stranger.

Almost 2 years later Squid asked me about my plans. When I told her she burst into tears. She knew she would never have seen our kids again if she'd taken them to OM and she couldn;t have done anything about it.

Get nasty in defence of your kids best interests. Right now.

Bob,

Do I tell her if she takes the kids to see OM she won't see them again.

I don't have the comfort of being able to secure employment overseas I'm struggling to find a better job here.

I'm so worried about the effect this will have on my kids and if I have to do, that what the courts will think.

I will speak to the bank on Monday about another account, but she can't access my account now and I can't hers any more.

I'm trying not to fight as this I feel it just portrays me as selfish as her.

I couldn't give a shiny sh1te how I was portrayed when it came to doing whats right for my kids.

I told OM that if he ever met my kids in any other capacity than stranger I'd kill him.

I meant it then and I mean it now. No bravado.

Tell her nothing but how strongly you feel about this issue and that you'll always do what you think is best for your kids.

Thats what I told Squid.

Its pointless reasoning wuth an active wayward spouse.

You do what you think is right.

HAF,

Just so you know, I wasn't trying to yell at you or make you feel bad--I was trying to give you that "Hollywood slap in the face" to wake you up to the fact that you need to stand up FIRMLY for your children.

Do you see what you did when you wrote back to me? You told me all the reasons why you need to let your innocent children be dragged around from house to house and man to man, rather than even considering the option, "Hmmmm...how could I do this?"

When my now exH and I were going through our D, we lived near his family and 1500 miles + away from my family. I had exposed to his mother, brother and sister (dad had already passed) and their position was, "We aren't getting in the middle. If he wants to break his vows, he's our relative and blood is thicker than water." So like you, I had no one. No one who could help with all the chores...no one who could babysit...and no one to ever give me a break for some personal time. HAF, IT CAN BE DONE. You just have to get creative about it.

Here's a few ideas:

(a) WW moves out, kids stay with you (cuz they aren't moving!). You hire a college student to pick up the kids after school and watch them until you get home, in exchange for a free room...so they are sort of like a roommate. They sleep in the room WW is sleeping in now--maybe kids bunk together (if you have a 3 bedroom).

(b) WW moves out, kids stay with hyou (cuz they aren't moving!). You speak to your boss and switch to graveyard shift and do what my DH did.

(c) You speak to the UK agencies that offer human services and see if you would qualify for child care assistance if you're a working dad and no longer have WW's salary as a resource. You take the assistance that you qualify for, and you put them into a preschool.

(d) You check with your church or pastor or friend in town, and you ask, "My WW is leaving and I need to find someone who can watch the kids at a rate I can afford." Church or pastor or friend knows of 'so-and-so's" daughter who is young, but has some experience and is willing to do it for your offer.

(e) You search online, in the yellow pages, and EVERYWHERE for child care resources for single parents. Get INFORMED before you say it can't be done!

(f) You join a child care co-op. That means that someone watches your two while you work...and in exchange you watch their two while they work. Since the child care is even, you both watch each others' kids for free.

(g) You see if there is a "Dad's Nite Out" through your local church, YMCA, or other facility--like every other Friday night. This will give you a periodic break and some much-needed personal time.

HAF...see what I just did there? Without blinking or even giving it a very hard try, I came up with SIX options of ways that you could step up to the plate and choose to be a father and parent for your children. It CAN be done!!! Now that we have established that it can be done, I suggest that you stop helping your WW have her A. Stop arguing with us about how you can't do it, be afraid, and DO IT ANYWAY.

Plan A is a carrot and a stick, remember? The carrot part is you being the strong, brave, courageous heroic husband and father who stands like a lighthouse for his marriage and family. Be the man that you were intended to be. Be funny. Be interested and interesting. Be the person you are in the core of your being--not the person who is "trying to please WW to get her back." Be YOU, because you are brilliant. That's the carrot part. The stick is firmly and bravely standing up to all the ways that she is USING you and your children's resources to facilitate her A. Do not let her use "family money" to pay for gifts for her lover. Do not let her use your family home as a love nest. Do not let her take innocent children into the mire of an affair. If she wants to slide around in the pig trough, you can't force her to get out of it, but you do not need to let her drag your children in there with her.

Sooooo...when you write back next time, your assignment is to tell me which of the six options above seems CLOSEST to something you might be able to do. Which one sounds like it's a possibility? What step will you take TODAY (Father's Day here in the States--ironic, huh?) to save your children from the damage of infidelity? What is ONE THING you can do right now that will secure your children and your home? Look at Bob Pure's list of things...pick ONE that you could start on right now. And then tell us which one you are willing to do.

Your faithful friend,



CJ

Hi CJ,

I am looking into child care for when I'm at work, but what I'm not willing to do is stop my wife from see her kids. She maybe fogged out but she is a wonderful mother when she is with her boys and I can't deny my boys their mother's love. Surely they must be allowed that. We have talked about joint custody, whereby I have them on my 4 days off and she has them when I'm at work. My boys are only 7 and 8 I can't have too much disruption in their lives.

I'll give you an update when I sort things out.

HAF,

I think it was Henry Ford who said "Whether you believe you can or whether you believe you can't, chances are you're probably right". At this moment you're thinking you can't; believe me you can.

Somewhere inside you is a near infinite resource of energy, oomph & power for this; I used to think that I stumbled across mine by accident but looking back thru posts it was actually a 2x4 delivered by MelodyLane (thanks for that ML): & what a magnificent 2x4 it was, wrapped in heavy chains with 9" nails in it (the many previous 2x4's had little effect). That's what CJ is trying to do for you; listen to her.

Yes, you'll appear selfish to your FWW, but you will regardless of what you do; she's in the fog. But there will be moments when that fog lifts & her perception of you will be nearer the mark; it's better that she sees a strong man fighting his corner than a weak man in those lucid moments.

Don't tell of your plans (or the fact you haven't got any), don't give threats or ultimatums (remember no LBs) especially when you're not yet prepared to go thru on them. Re-read this thread, there's stuff here (good stuff) taht I think you've overlooked.

You can do this.

b.p.m.

HAF, we're cross posting.

I agree with you about the kids rights to see their mother; joint custody is good, just make sure your boundaries on OM involvement with your kids are clearly stated.

Glad to see you're generating some momentum. Remember you're still in plan A - keep it up.

b.p.m

Bullet,

Going back to what I said. If WW moves out she surely has the right to see the kids. I can't stop that. I'm working on my shifts at the moment to see which days I need child care cover for and for what times.

I understand about the 2x4 and what CJ is doing. Is Plan A about being selfish. I'm being told already that I'm bullying her into staying, which I see as a LB. I just tell her she is bullying me into separation. I've told her she can go, I'm not keeping her here that's her choice.

Would you stop your wife from seeing her kids?

I'm not worried about her getting angry I just trying to stay one step ahead with regards to the courts. In her frame of mind she will be back to see her solicitor for a legal separation.

Going back over your own sit do you know whether she can have a legal separation if I'm not willing to do it. I understand she hasn't got the right for separation if I don't accept it.

HAF,

I have a slightly different slant on this: I believe WW rights are somewhat diminished if they go (BUT this is just my belief) but your kids' right to see their mother are invariant. For me, I wouldn't want to stop that - unless my kids were exposed to any potential harm.

No, plan A is not selfish (I'll try & remember some good plan A threads when I get some spare time). How are you bullying her, or how does she think she's being bullied ?? My F?WW has said the same stuff: I think the truth of it is you & I moved from enabling the A to not enabling the A & WWs got pissed off at that.

Legal separations follow the same path as a divorce, same rules apply.

How was Father's Day for you??

b.p.m.