<manly>You're welcome.</manly> But stop with the brokeback references.

As the vendor you can play silly buggers until the cows come home (I know the people I bought my house from did it for 6 months - it wasn't until I told 'em to shove it that they stopped). Her argument about the money you get is true - but this is not about money: it's about your kids. As for disruption her argument is [superficially] also true; but compared with having their family ripped apart the disruption of moving house (or not) is vanishingly small - it's irrelevant. Her argument is bogus. If she wants to minimise disruption she should ditch OM & come home.

She is a WS, she cares nought for your pain & suffering. If you can't see it coming then learn to catch your reaction - when you feel yourself building up take yourself off somewhere distant then scream & shout until you're spent.


No, no, no, no. This is a massive LB (could this, & similar, be the bullying behaviour she referred to). Do not say such things - in WW eyes her actions are further vindicated. I know your OM, he's the same as my OM; he's a man who'll destroy the lives of many innocent bystanders for his own selfish ends. He is, from top to toe, all cant (as they say down south). That said: put him out of your mind.

Remember the film "War Games" where the computer runs loads of simulations of a nuclear war & concludes it cannot be won: you need to do the same. If you see him and give him a dirty look, is your sitch with WW made better?? What about calling him names?? A b!tch-slap?? Or giving him a good hoofing in the nads?? Will this make recovery more likely?? What about breaking his legs?? Or throwing him in the hopper of a meat pie machine?? Will these make your WW a FWW?? No, cleary it will not. All you'll get is a criminal record & diminished access to your kids. Stop with the threats. Do not think or make them & do NOT act on them.

Your operating from a position of intense pain & it's manifesting as anger, consider getting yourself some counselling for this (seriously), I did & it helped me. I'm a better, happier person now (& consequently way more attractive).

I'm not a master on this (again another badge I haven't got) but my understanding is you expose to all the people who'll exert (positive) pressure on WW & OM to end the affair.

Meanwhile concentrate on your plan A (or 180). Get yourself down the gym, take up yoga (but don't get too chatty with the ladies), etc. to manage stress. Put aside half an hour everyday for you: read a book, listen to music, learn to play an instrument, etc. Something just for you.

What H20 said about mortgages is worth thinking about: I heard of 35yr mortgages (retirement will be a thing of the past when you & I get to 65). The recent hike in interest rates may change things, but this will affect WW as much as you.

Your WW is having some fog free moments: in these moments she'll look at OM & see him for what he is; she'll also be looking at you (or thinking about you) in these moments. The good news is that you can have some influence in what she sees & feels when she considers you; this is the point of plan A (& 180).

Keep it up.

b.p.m.

Thanks again people,

I have tried to keep cool, but I find it so hard. WW went out last night and stayed at OM's parents house. She told me she was going to a friends house, but admitted it today after I confronted her. She said she has only been to see him 2 while I have had the boys since I came back home.

More debate this morning on the house after I had it valued. She may consider me buying her out if I could raise the capital, but I very much doubt I could get the money. My WW suggested I stay at the house on my days off and she stays there when I'm at work. She said she would go to her mothers and I could go back to my cousins, or brothers. I said I would think about it and I have I'm not moving. There was some more tears this morning when I said she should give him up and look at what we have. I said this is not what the boys want and she knows that, but she said we shouldn't stay together just for the kids. I said so what your saying is its ok to follow your feeling and disrupt their lives without any consideration for them. I keep getting I love him and I'm not giving him up. I tell her I know she loves him as I've read so much about how you got to where you are. She knows I read all this stuff at MB, but won't read any herself.

Ok exposure, I have no idea where OM's XW lives except its in London. That's as much information as I know. He has been divorced for 5 years and has a 7 year old boy.

Cracks in Armour, Not sure about this. Yesterday I found a piece of paper amongst her work stuff she left lying around. There was a username and password on it so I went to her browser history and found it give me access to her new mobile phone. It turns out that reading the bill, that OM is using the phoned registered to her. I came to this conclusion because the number has been calling this house, her work, his home and the mobile phone I give her.What is also interesting is that the registered number is calling a number which is exactly the same as the number registered to her but for the last one digit.
It also shows that they call at all times of the day and night even 2-3 in the morning. I think if I stay around and she keeps this up it will take its toll. She can't keep burning the oil at both ends. Running to her parents getting back for the boys and speaking to OM all night. I have asked her today not to text him when I'm there. She admitted she wouldn't talk to him in my presences so why text.

Took the boys swimming today, while WW went out with her sister, not before trying to look through my laptop bag. I had left the zip at a certain point before leaving and it had changed. It appears she is watching everything I do.

Buy a lock for your laptop bag. Period.

HAF, I believe your WW is under a very common WS illusion. In her A fantasy, OM is her "soulmate" and loves her unconditionally...and she gets to keep the house, the kids, all your money, all her money AND the OM and his money! In her fantasy, you are happy for her that she is finally "truly loved" and you agree to step aside and remain her friend because she is such a neat person. In her fantasy, you fade out, OM fills your place, and none of the worries of kids or bills ever comes between them...OM lovingly accepts and raises the kids, the kids love OM because he makes her happy, and you lovingly agree to it all because you see she is "in love."

CLEARLY this is just imaginary.

And what is happening is that REAL LIFE is beginning to interrupt her fantasy. She is NOT going to get to keep the house--she has to lose half of it or sell it. She is NOT going to be able to keep the kids--they will be with you at least half the time. You are NOT going to agree to all this--you are fighting for your M and disagree with D. You are NOT going to be her friend--you are going to protect your own and your kids' best interest. You are NOT going to just hand over your money and she may have to work. You are NOT going to finance her A anymore. All of this is disrupting her illusion. And it is pissing her off, because it's not going according to plan!

Sooooo...let her experience what she has to experience in order to mature. You just stand firmly. At minimum, seek your half of the house, but preferably seek YOU keep the house because YOU keep and care for the kids! At minimum, seek to pay child support but not spousal support, because she is choosing to leave YOU, not vice versa.

Personally, I think if I were in your shoes, I'd just ask her outright, "I want you to end the A and come back home to the kids and I, but if you will not and you've determined in your heart not to end your A, I will agree to a 2 year legal separation wherein you move in with OM and the kids and I stay in our home. You can have the kids Thur. for dinner to Sun., and I'll have them Mon. to Thur. for afternoon. That's exactly 50/50. I agree to pay $xxx.xx amount child support for those two years to help you care for the kids. (Go to a child support calculator--put in your actual income and her actual income and offer her what the calculator says.) You are free to go to OM if you wish, but the kids and I will maintain stability here, and I will not financially support you going to be with another man. At the end of two years, if you still want to divorce, I will agree at that time."

I know she's stubborn, but she thought she was going to get the house, the kids and the money without a fight, and reality is starting to break in on her. In two years time, reality will have damaged the A (kids, bills, exes, etc.) and I will BET YOU that she might be willing to return to the M. Based on the way your laws are set up there in the U.K. I think it's conceivable that she may just go for it to get "free" to be with OM. And whilst it may APPEAR that she is "winning" and you are "losing"--in reality what could happen to you if this goes through court is much worse -AND- it buys you time for the A to disintegrate and fall apart.

It's my humble opinion and just a suggestion.



CJ

Ok people update,

Yesterday I was asked if the boys and I would like to join friends of both me and my WW for a drink at their local pub, where there is a big play area, so I agreed. After taking the boys swimming we spent a little time in the house where the boys took photos of themselves wearing various karate belts they had achieved. I was waiting on my WW returning so I could go to the supermarket. While I was waiting I took the boys out to spend their pocket money and they asked if I could get their photos developed, which I reluctantly agreed to.

When WW returns the boys tell her we are going to see our friends, which appears to put my wife's nose out of joint. When asked to join us by DS7 she refuses. Anyway we go off cycling to the pub. Big adventure for DS7 as the last time I went out with him he was sat on the back of a bike. So we go off have a nice time and come back. WW asks how our friends are and I say they are fine and then asks what they think about our sit, to which I reply they are still shocked. WW goes in to one saying her friend is 2 faced. I don't get dragged in and point out they are talking about getting their DD christened. No response. she goes to bed and so do boys.

Then today I come back from work to find the house empty. I suspect they have gone to the cinema, which is confirmed on their return. DS7 seems a little upset so I ask what's up to which my WW replies he is asking me where I'm going, which has nothing to do with him. They(meaning the boys) don't ask you where you are going(but they do). I can go wherever I want. DS7 goes off and we talk a little about the film and I tell her our friends have been in touch and asked if I'd be godfather to their DD, to which I was very happy about.

WW hits the roof, "these are my friends and you only know them through me". " You didn't keep in contact with friends H for over a year(bollocks)and now you are all friendly. I said he has been very supportive to me over the last couple of months more than anyone and I have have helped him with his computer as a small gesture of appreciation, which means we have seen a lot of each other. She storms off without saying a word and has just this minute returned and is running a bath. It feels great not reacting and watching her flip. I said prior to her exit that our family consisted of me, her and the boys. If she didn't what to be part of it she could leave, the door is open. I said I had made arrangements for child care cover. (All in a calm voice without hitting back) She then said I wouldn't get to see the kids unless she said so and she was going to be the main carer. I said that's fine but we will let the courts decide. and then she storms off.

Ok Latest update.

Since I last posted things have taken a turn, which I'm not sure is helpful. Last week we attended a mediation session, which you may remember I was reluctant to go to. Anyway we both attended I it became quite apparent I didn't want to be there and the mediator said that we were at different stages, but she wasn't a counselor and that she was only interested in the children and any finances we would like to discuss. I then pointed out that it was ok for my WW to put the boys and me in this position but not ok for my WW to attend a counseling session. I said that as we are at different stages why is it I have to make decisions at my WW pace. No answer. I stated that I wish to have the children half of the week and my WW can have them the rest of the week and I wish to stay in the house. My WW stated exactly the same, however the mediator pointed out that access arrangements needed to be discussed and agreed before we discussed the house and any assets we have. She gave us both forms to complete regarding all our finances and asked that we make another appointment, which we agreed to. My WW asked that as tension in the house was getting worse she wanted me to stay at my brothers for my 4 days at work and her to stay at her mothers for the 4 days I'm off. I agreed to this as there is no point in going to mediation unless you are willing to mediate. This arrangement would stay in place until the other issues could be resolved. As my WW was means tested for legal help and they kindly put her down for paying the mortgage. I had to pay for this session, to which my WW agreed to pay half and transfer the money to my account.

So we went home and discussed some more about our situation and I again said to my wife that if she allowed me to stay in the house and have half the week with the boys I would give her a divorce after 2 years of legal separation. To which she replied how do I know you will stick to it. I said you can speak to your solicitor and have it documented. I will even look to sell the house if I more on with my life during the next 2 years. It was left at that and we agreed we would speak to our families to make sure it was ok for us to stay and the relevant homes.

During the week I have the house valued for a third time and spoke to our endowment people to establish what the surrender value of our polices would be.

It gets to Friday and everything has been ok she has slept at her mothers or in one of the boys beds while I've been at work. Both families have agreed for us to stay at their homes, but we just haven't implemented anything. Friday night and I went out to my brothers and stayed the night, as WW had gone out of Thursday night (with friends from work?). My brother has decided it would be a good idea to take the boys to London as there is a Star Wars exhibition. I contacted my WW and asked that she have to boys ready early in the morning so I could catch an early train. This is agreed and then Staurday comes.

I arrived back home early so I could get changed before going. We set off for the train when I find out I can't park my car so I drop everyone off and go home and ask WW to drop me off to which she agrees reluctantly. On the way to the train station she mentions she is taking the boys to kids church this Sunday, to which I replied that's good, I was going to go as well. WW goes mad, as in the past I have always refused to go to the church the boys go to because I'm a catholic, however in light of what is going on I feel more connected to their church and the community that I've ever done. I then said to my WW that she had no right to take the moral high ground considering what she is doing unless she is going there for forgiveness. Conversation stops and I jump out to catch the train.

Later in the afternoon after returning I get a text message asking if I'm back home to which I reply yes. The next message says she is going to stay at her sister house and that she will see the boys in the morning. I knew this because her sister had phoned the house asking to speak to WW but she wasn't here. I told her she will be with OM. I replied to her text by saying don't bother coming home stay in the town your in with OM. This goes on for sometime until we call one another. I've taken the boys out by this time to meet with my brother and his girlfriend.

WW tells me that as I had them today she would have them tomorrow and that she would be taking them to church. Again I stated that I would be coming and that if there was a problem then that problem was with her. I was also annoyed that she can go off and see OM without a care about the kids. .The only reason she isn't staying at OM's house is he is on nights and she won't stay there without him. The Conversation ends with her crying and saying she will speak to me tomorrow. Later on I text her asking her to come over so we can talk and then she can either go back to her sisters or stay at home. I get no reply.

Sunday morning I'm up giving the boys their breakfast when she comes back and gives the boys a great big hug and says how she has really missed them. (not enough to come home though). I stay out of the way to begin with and then the boys went upstairs and WW goes into the kitchen. I start the conversation asking if she received my text message, to which she replies yes but I didn't want to talk. I said you were crying yesterday on the phone saying we will talk today. I have nothing to say is her reply. At this point I start asking what has happened to our relationship that it has got this bad. You keep asking the same questions and its getting boring, I love someone else that's it. I'm stood by the fridge at this point fuming and I wont move, so she hit me. At that point I grabbed her arm and pulled her towards the door and said that if he is that good go and live with him. I'll get your stuff and I'll drop your bags off at his house. She starts screaming and the kids hear all this. I am so annoyed I've hit the roof, but she has a way of just getting me to explode. I am constantly told I will keep the house as the kids are small and we will sell it when they are older. I said where am I suppose to live until then. I'm not trying to bring someone else into this house. You don't want him to leave here, he doesn't want to live here so why don't you just go. I tell her she has to tell the boys what is going on and to tell them that she won't help fix things. She tells the boys that she is going to move out for the days I'm off but that's about it. This argument goes on for about an hour. I end up leaving to take DS8 to church and she stays at home with DS7. On my return we start again, but I keep saying to her we can work this out. It's at this point that she admits to crying most of the time she is with OM, but she won't give him up. I said what happens if he stops seeing you do we still stay separated or do we look to reconcile our marriage for the sake of the boys. No reply.

She takes the boys out and I went out to see my brother. She takes them to her brothers where all her family are going. When she returns we argue again and she says she is taking the boys to her mothers. She eventually agrees she will move out and find somewhere to live as she doesn't want another argument in front of the boys. Later that night as she is about to go to her mothers she tells the boys who then decide they should go as the mother had told them earlier she would take them there. I am so against this as I'm off and she should just go and come back in the morning.

Monday morning I go to work still annoyed at how things went over the weekend. Annoyed that she has decided to leave the house only after us arguing, which wasn't my intentions.

Tuesday I take a call from my cousin who is married to my BIL, the same brother who my WW went to see on Sunday. My cousin finds it hard to speak to my WW. I tell her everything that has gone on over the weekend. She told me that my SIL had told her that my WW is trying to get everyone on her side and that her parents were with her 100% and that it was so unfair. My cousin couldn't quite understand my SIL view, until Sunday when my WW tells everyone that I tried to throw her out in front of the boys. The boys heard the argument but were at the top of the stairs when I was in the kitchen going into the living room. The boys couldn't see anything. Its not the first time my WW has not been entirely truthful with her explanation of things.

Wednesday comes and I find myself taking my first yoga class in an attempt to try and control my anger more and I am 2 weeks into not smoking. I have to meet WW at boys school today so we can meet their new teachers for next year. I tell WW that she looks beautiful and we have a chat about the school and the teachers. Nothing untoward and I agree she can have the boys on Sunday as its her fathers birthday, even though it is my time with them and she agrees I can have them in a couple of weeks to go to a friends BBQ. I then ask her if the card she is giving to her father from both of us or just her. If its just from you then I'll get another card. I don't know is her reply. Her mothers birthday and the father's day card she sent were from both of us even though she constantly points out we are separated.

So as it stands I've probably committed all the LB's you can find and find myself half way to plan B. It's at this point I don't really know if I want to keep this marriage I would be more happy watching my WW balls everything up. My children are the most important thing in my life and it would be for them that I decided to work at my marriage, if my WW ever gets there.

All in all I think I've well and truly ****ed this up.
Still I will be happier in my own home even if I'm on my own, whenever that happens only God knows.

I'm off home tomorrow after I finish work, after staying at my brothers for the last 4 days, while I've been at work.

I was wondering if I should write a letter to my WW apologizing for my out burst on Sunday and explain how low I felt on Monday following our argument. I was thinking of reminding her of all the good times we had both as a family and intimately and that its only because of her affair I have reacted the way I have.

She is taking the boys out on Sunday for her father's birthday so I thought I would give her the letter then. I have wrote other letters to her which I'm sure she keeps. Its the only way I can express my feeling to her without her telling me I'm wasting my time and I should just accept my marriage is over. Its during those moments I find it hard not to react.

Any thoughts would be appreciated, even if its just do nothing.

Don't accept anything. Stop LB'ing. Be the calm, cool, collected one in this disaster.

While do so you don't have to be a doormat. You fully intend to have the children at a minimum of 50% of the time, the OM will never be anything more than an intruder, a thief and when the boys are old enough you will tell them so, Finances fairly split, and so on. Do all of this in a cool and calm and detached mannner. The Yoga should help.

Faith said it all above about the mindset of your WW. She thought she would take everything and just replace you with the OM and have a babysitter every other weekend (you). She is starting to realize that this is not the case.

I understand what everyone is saying but trying to stay calm is very difficult. I can do it when she just makes the odd comment but when its constantly and being pushed down your throat it's very hard not to react. I've always said to my WW that my actions or only reactions to her actions or demands.

Anyway regarding the letter apologizing for my outburst on Sunday, should I write one or not.

I doubt I will speak to my wife the next few days, except on Sunday when she comes to pick up the boys.

One other question do you think it is unreasonable for me to not let my WW have the boys at any time during their time with me regardless of those birthday it is etc.

We know its hard, but you can practive what Bob Pure calls loving detachment and that helps. Think of dealing with WW as a business client, less emotion. It's okay to have boundaries and not be a doormat though, just do it calmly. Its okay to express your feelings, do it calmly.

I don't think you will get much from the letter, in fact she may use it against you in court should it go to court.

If it is someone's birthday they should be able to see the children (no OM present) for some period of time that day, imo.

HAF:

I don't have much time so this will be short. The letter won't do you much good IMHO; from what you've written it seems like you keep losing it & then saying your sorry - another apology will not mean much to your WW. Stop LBing (I know how hard it is, I really do).


It feels great not reacting and watching her flip. I said prior to her exit that our family consisted of me, her and the boys. If she didn't what to be part of it she could leave, the door is open. I said I had made arrangements for child care cover. (All in a calm voice without hitting back)

You had it - for a short moment you had it. Remember how good it felt ?? You can do it - you've already done it at least once.

Got to go now - I'll pop by tomo.

b.p.m.

Cheers Bullet,

I'm glad to see you're still about.

Ok guys against your judgement I wrote a letter to her explaining how I felt after our argument and also about some of the good times we have had. I printed off a load of photos showing us having a good time as a family and as a couple. I put them in her car today when she came to pick the boys up. The boys are happy I'm writing to their mother even if she isn't. Its the only way I can show her my feelings without her responding and hurting me.

Yesterday morning she phoned to speak to DS8 as he had been sick on Friday night. When she finished she spoke to me and the conversation moved towards our argument on Sunday. When I tried to put over my point she hung up. I tried phoning her back and texting her but she didn't reply. When she phoned last night to speak to the boys I spoke to her asking if she had got my text message, which she said she had and she then apologised for hanging up on me and said she was wrong to do that.

I know she has been looking at rented accommodation both where we live and where OM lives, but I hope her not seeing the boys everyday may make her realise what she will miss. I don't know how she will be when we go on holiday in October and she won't see them for 2 weeks.

I feel happier being at home even if she isn't here, than I do at my brothers. Don't get me wrong he has been great to me, its just nice to be home. I took the boys to church today and I have told them we will go every Sunday I'm off. I'm starting to feel like I'm part of the community now which is strange. I'm also due to have 2 more Yoga lessons next week and will schedule others in my diary for the forthcoming months. I hope all this will help me in the long run, even if we don't get back together.

Keep up the good work re YOGA . Your stress levels in relation to the events in your life must be very high---- hope it helps. A little each day is better than one big session once a week Your stress levels would be mainly due to unresolved emotional problems.

Your w is taking control of your emotions when she causes you to lose your temper. I agree with the others that allowing her to do that makes her a winner and you a loser.By reacting to what she says or does you are allowing her to be in control. By remaining aloof and apparently unconcerned you can remain detached and therefore in control.

As far as agenda is concerned it might be a good idea to give the impression that you have a few secrets. This is where plan B comes in. I am not an expert here but there are plenty of posters who are .A good time could be if she arranges some rented accommodation.

In my Grimleythorpe days I was brought up to respect the concept of a fair deal and I can see that you also have a very strong sense of fair play but there is absolutely nothing about an a which is fair.The rule book is out of the window You don't owe her any apologies for any thing that you might say or do

OM is the enemy. Rules of war prevail. Shakespeare said' know thine enemy' and he was right .Many people here have used private investigators to check out the opposition. It is amazing the number of inconsistencies, lies and omissions an affair partner will spin .

Reality is beginning to shine through here and there and she is starting to get worried

Reality Bites 1
OM is not perfect

Reality Bites 2
She is going to find it hard to find anything suitable or affordable to rent. She is sacrificing a home for a hovel but she probably still thinking true love will find a way

Reality Bites 3
When there is a marriage split in my experience the friends tend to remain friendly with only one half of the couple the affair couple tend to keep those who have the shallow belief in happiness whatever the cost to others.Your wife not only wants to keep the house,children but the friends and relations as well its not going to happen and she is beginning realize this

t

I have been reading my last few posts and I can now see what other people are seeing to some extent. Its like reading your stars. It sounds a load of rubbish at times and other times it's spot on. I also think I'm starting to understand Bob's loving detachment.

OK everyone here is the latest.

Since I last posted I have had 4 days with my boys at home and really enjoyed my time with them. I phone them everyday when I'm not there and I miss them so much when I'm away from home.

The boys know how much I love them and I know they miss me when I put them to bed.

I phoned them last night while I was at work, but they didn't answer, so I phoned WW on her mobile. We talk about how their day had been.

A couple of days earlier my WW told me that the boys music fees were due and I said I would try and do some overtime to help cover the cost but we needed to look at the finances as the boys couldn't keep the same activities when we separate. This didn't go down too well.

I mentioned our finances again when I was on the phone and asked if my WW had found anywhere to live. She tells me that she is going to speak to her solicitor and see if she can stay in the house and if she did this, would I move back home. I said it wasn't fair her staying in the home after she said she would move. She said that after leaving the boys on Sunday she feels it would be best for her to stay at home. I told her that I would drag my heels if she pushed for legal separation where she gets to keep the house. I am being told that I'm pushing her to move out. I said that you have said that OM is the best thing going, he doesn't want to stay here so just move in with him. She said the boys weren't ready for that. I said you have put me in this position and I have been told I should accept my marriage is over. So now I accept it's over and ask you to leave that's not right either. I said that I would sell the house if I moved on with my life. She then tells me I'm would just sell the house at the drop of a hat. I said I don't want to sell it, but was thinking of her if I moved on with my life. I know I don't want OM to move into my house so how would she feel if I tried to move another woman in.

The conversation went on for some time with no arguing just different points of view without shouting all in calm voices(I had been to yoga today). I said all I want is to reconcile our marriage. The boys don't want us to separate. She said she was putting the boys first otherwise she would have moved out a long time ago. I said your feelings for OM are first and the boys come a close second. If the boys were first she would look at reconciling our marriage. She said she wasn't ready to do that, to which I replied neither do other people who have affairs. I wouldn't have done this if it didn't feel right. I said everyone who has an affair feels its right. I said we are about to spend thousands on solicitors and mediators and this money will have to come from the sale of the house, why don't we spend our money fixing our marriage. What if I do it again she said. I said no one would do it again knowing the pain they have caused. I said you wouldn't have done what you did if you knew you would cause this much pain. No reply. I said Steve Harley said there was a possibility we could have a great marriage and you agreed you would be happiest if you were in love with the father of your children. I said why don't you read what I've read. She said she would think about it.

I text her later saying I know she loves me but can't seem to see that now. I said we could work through it and there would be everyone around us to help us through. This is something I said when talking to her earlier. I said then that when she is with OM she wouldn't be able to see our friends. She said she was going to see 2 of our friends later in the week. I said that is with the boys and it isn't as a couple. She said she had met some of his friends. I said but you won't be able to go out like we have because our friends won't accept OM. She admitted she doesn't talk to her sister or parents about him. I said if we work on our marriage we could all go on holiday together instead of her staying behind. That says a lot to me her not talking to her family.

Since I last posted I spoken again to my WW about the possibility of reconciling and that I had found some stuff on the web that I thought she would like to read. She said she would, so I agreed to print it off when I was back home with the boys. We talked some more and my WW asked if I would agree to her having the boys 5 days and me keeping the house. I said I couldn't agree to that and I thought she would use it against me if we go to court. I asked if she had been in contact with her solicitor and what they had said. She said that they say we should go back to mediation, but no mention of her keeping the house. I said that I felt we should spend our money on a marriage counsellor and not solicitors or mediators. However if she wanted to make an appointment with the mediator then that was up to her. We had agreed that she would come and pick up DS8 and take him to the dentist today as he wanted to go with his mother.

I came home on Saturday to spend my 4 days with the boys. I had been wondering if my WW had taken the boys to meet OM again, so I asked them about their trip to the cinema. It turns out she not only took the boys to meet him again, but had the audacity to pick the f***** up from his house(sorry parents house). It was then I decided to talk to the boys about their feelings about this whole situation and how much they understood. I had to explain about feelings and what my WW intentions were and this went on for some time. However the boys were very understanding and said that if the mother tries to take them to meet OM again they will refuse to go.

Saturday night WW phones to speak to the boys after I've spoken to them about the situation. DS8 asks where she is as I'm walking into the lounge. WW replies she is at OM house but is going home to her mothers (nanny's house). The change on my boys face said it all. When he came off the phone I asked how he felt and he said sad. I said do you think Mammy is going back to nanny's house, no he replies. Would you like to find out for sure, Yes he replies. So I said to both of them that we will go past Nanny's house on the way to church and if Mammy is there Dad is wrong and if Mammy isn't there then what I've said about Mammy telling lies may be true. They both agree. Sunday comes and we go past and no sign of her car, a big lesson the boys have learnt. The rest of the day is good we spend time playing pitch and putt and relaxing.

WW comes to pick up DS8 today for the dentist and DS7 goes along to. When they get back WW is offish and DS8 runs upstairs angry at his mother. When they were travelling WW asked if I had spoken to them about our situation to which they replied yes and then said they didn't want to see OM again. They ended up repeating things I've said about my WW having 2 choices, in that she stays or goes. It is apparent to me that my boys hate this situation, which has come about out of their mothers belief that she should be with this OM and that she will gradually introduce them to him. I have told the boys that they must tell their mother if they don't want to meet the OM or if it makes them fell sad as this is the only way their mother may pay attention the the damage she is causing. I'm being told from others we should keep the boys out of it. It's my opinion that they have a right to know what is about to bestowed on them. I will do whatever it takes to try and keep my boys away from OM and I will continually remind them what their mother is doing is wrong, regardless of what others think. I am there for my boys, always have been and always will be and I have never let them down and I have no intentions of doing so.

So WW returns from dentist DS8 is angry and runs upstairs after telling his mother he hates her. She goes after him and this is when I'm informed that she has spoken to the boys and they have said what they said. after she comes down and is about to leave I tell the boys to go inside while I speak to my WW. I tell her that they don't like what she is doing and that if they don't want to go with her then they can stay with me. I ask her to read the stuff I had for her and she says she will whether she does is another matter, as she threatened to shut the door of her car on my hand as she was so p*****. Then she should stop what she is doing.


Later this evening as I'm just finishing dinner with the boys my FIL comes round threatening me and telling me I should stop using the kids. He said he has said the same to my wife. Things calm down and I tell him he isn't coming into my home telling me what I should do and then just walking out. I said there are 2 sides to every story and I know she is your daughter but you haven't heard my side of things. He sits down and we talked at some length and he sees what I'm doing and understands That I will do anything to stop the kids from being put through what my WW is doing. My wife has failed to tell him about the letters I write to her or the photos I've sent and wasn't aware that I had wrote to the boys school some months back explaining we had a marriage crisis and I was doing what ever I could to stabilise the boys home. I said I had also spoken to the head mistress only the other week after she stopped me as I entered the school to give me an update on my boys behaviour. He left understanding things weren't quite as my WW would have them believe and I told him I was pleased he had come over even if he wasn't too happy when he got here.

Not sure which way to go now.

I spoke to my WW this morning as she came to look after the boys as I went to work. I mentioned she was a bit early and she snapped at me saying she can't get anything right, I have a go at her for being late and I have a go at her for being early. I said I wasn't having a go but just mentioned she was a bit early. I asked her if she had managed to read any of the stuff I had left her and she said she had but it hadn't changed her mind. I said we can work this out, but her reply is how can we as everyone knows are business. I said they don't except family and very close friends. I asked if she knew her Father had been round to speak to me the other day and she said yes as she had spent the afternoon crying, while at his house.

I phoned her while I was at work as she asked if we could change a couple of days we have the kids, so she can have some time with them as they are going away camping during the days she has them. I agreed to her proposal and then spoke about reconciliation as she was asking if I would be paying any money towards the next mediation meeting we are expected to attend. I keep telling her we can get through this and what she is doing isn't helping the boys. I said they don't what their lives to change. She said but if mine is then theirs has to. I said you keep saying you are putting the boys first, but it appears now that its your feeling and then the boys. I said she owed it to me and the boys to at least try and work at the marriage. I have left her Surviving an Affair in the hope she will read it, but I'm still worried the penny is still no where near dropping. She mentioned that we should sell the house, but I don't want to if I can avoid it. I said that if we try and work on the marriage there is a counseling weekend going on while we are in Florida. That she wasn't interested in. She keeps telling me it feels right, so why is she always crying and angry at me after I spoken to the boys. She said that I behave like a counselor and that I'm trapping her. She did mention that if we got back together the closeness we always had would never be the same. Why say something like that if she is so determined to end everything, why mention it at all. Does she do it just to put me off.

Questions
Do I just back off altogether

Do I accept its over and push for her to leave which is what I have been doing to some extent.

(FWW) What is going through my WW's head.
One minute I think she is having second thoughts the next she acts like she is more determined to keep us separated.

I want to contact my FIL to follow on the conversation we had the other day. Good idea or not?

You really need to quit carrying relationship talks all the time with her. It comes across as needy...it's going to make you more UNattractive to her...its the opposite of what you need to be doing during plan A.

I'd also say that you need to tell her point blank that its NOT 'everyone knowing' that's keeping you from reconciling. Tell her that you know that they love her and would love nothing more than to see the two of you save your marriage. Let her know that you've read up on this a lot, as well as made a number of friends that have been through this. Tell her that you have read the same thing in the advice by one of the leading marriage counselor's material as well.

But right now, you really need to put pressure on her to end the affair. By exposing, by making her affair life uncomfortable...AND BY MAKING YOURSELF SEEM MORE COMFORTABLE TO BE AROUND. Continually talking to her about the affair and recovery will prevent that. You might consider the "180 plan" that some people around here talk about...pulling back away from her a bit, and see how she responds.

Ok I need some advice here.

Since my last post, I phoned my FIL so we could clear the air some more, but he refused to meet me to talk things through. He said that things were getting to a point that were effecting other people in particular my boys. He said
that he would like to speak to both me and my WW with my MIL so that they could establish what was being said. After speaking to him I have decided that I won't speak to my WW with him and my MIL as they can't be neutral.

The following day after a somewhat sleepless night I went to work and on the way home passed my cousin's house. I decided I would go and talk to her to find out what has been said for my FIL to come round to my house very emotional a few days earlier. She told me she didn't know why he was like he was other than it was his daughter and he was trying to protect her. She mentioned some things that my BIL had mentioned and she had told him that mis mother my MIL had helped my wife compile a list of unreasonable behavior to give to her solicitor, so I had every right to feel betrayed. I told her that since this had all come out that my WW's family had changed their opinions from being right behind me to making me ostracized. I also told her that if my BIL wanted to know anything he only had to ask me instead of just taking things at face value. I left feeling very angry.

When I got back to my brother's my SIL phoned asking about travel insurance for our holiday. Anyway I told her exactly what I told my cousin. She explained how awkward she had felt but was still on my side and that she never spoke to my WW about OM and wont bring herself round to even say OM's name. We had a long talk I I was very happy when we finished and she agreed to come over for dinner one night with her boys. She also said that she didn't think my WW would change her mind, but that my IL's were constantly arguing with her. She mentioned that my WW had asked to stay at her house again and she had refused.

Last night while at work I phoned to speak to the boys and my WW answered. We spoke about whether I could have the boys earlier than normal on Sunday. This followed a text message I sent her the other day. She said I couldn't have the boys earlier as it was her time with them and that I was having them for 2 extra days at the end of next week as she is at work. This was arranged before we decided to spend our days apart. I am having the boys today for a few hours as she took them out for her father's birthday while I had them. With the way my shifts work she always gets 4 1/2 days and I get 3 1/2 days, but she won't even consider me having the boys for a few hours extra. I said I'm off next week to help you out, I don't have to have the boys, but I'm there father and I would be more than happy to have them. She originally said I could stay 2 extra days with the boys as I was looking after them if she could have them for 2 extra days the following week as they are going camping while they are supposed to be with her. Now its because she is allowing me to spend 2 extra days with them that she wants 2 in return and has nothing to do with the boys being away while she has them. I can't understand why she is being so unreasonable.

The conversation moved on to our marriage and she said she didn't want to make a go at things. I said fine then move out and find somewhere else to live. I get maybe I want to stay here for the boys sake. What do I get then is my reply. You don't want to save the marriage, you won't tell me want was wrong with our marriage, you want the house, the kids and OM, so what do I get. She said she has read that she shouldn't give things up just because she feels guilty. She then says she wants to buy me out again, so I refuse and she gets the hump. I said again OM doesn't want to live here you would feel awkward about living here with him so why bother. Maybe I just want to be here for the boys. I said then so do I and it would be better for me to stay here for the boys so that they understand that all the new changes to their lives are away from their home. Then you can't want to save the marriage then she says. What! How can you say that, thats all I've asked you to do,if you don't want to then leave. I said if your life is going to be so much better then leave and be with him. I didn't say it was going to be better, then why bother going there then. She then replies by saying you don't know if it won't be better. I said it won't because you won't have the boys everyday, you won't be living in your home and you won't be going on holidays like we did and you can't go out with your family like we did. You are putting me under pressure to come back, you are bullying me and if I came back I would just be miserable. She then said I could have the house and we would review things in 2 years time if I agreed to her having the kids 5 days and me having them 3 days. I said if I agree to that then I am not giving you a penny. She said it hadn't entered her mind about maintenance. Then she said I would have to give her something, no way otherwise I will stick with 3 1/2 days a week.

I am wondering now if I should just file for Divorce on the grounds of adultery. I am thinking of contacting my solicitor to see if I would get the house and the kids 3 1/2 days a week without paying her a single penny. If the answer is yes then I may consider it. I think if I did she would have to pay the legal costs as well.

Later in the evening I got a text from my BIL asking if I would like to come over. I phoned him and he said that everyone wasn't against me but things were turning nasty, which he knew they would but would really like to talk. So I'm off there on Sunday as I can't have the boys and I will tell him what is exactly happening.

You are making a big mistake by trying to get her family to side with you. It probably won't happen. It is good that they know about the affair and your desire to save your marriage and keep your family together, but that is all. The constant talks with her family just add to the drama. In the end, they most likely will side with her, just because it is too painful for them to realize how awful your wife is acting.

If your wife will agree to you and your kids staying in the home for 2 years and then revisiting the agreement, that is probably your best bet. The affair will undoubtedly be over by then, and your wife back with you.

Try not to argue with your wife, and try to continue doing fun things with your kids. Take the focus off of her and the OM and stay out of the drama. Right now, she is fighting against you and getting closer to the OM. Better to remove yourself as much as possible and let THEM start fighting.

Hi Believer,

I not sure you're right about getting close to her family. I went round to see my BIL on Sunday and we had a very good talk. He said it sounds like I'm talking a lot of sense. He said that everyone was on my side even my MIL and FIL. He asked that I carry on being the great Dad I am and try and not get the kids too involved. He recommended that I go and speak to my MIL and FIL and put my points across. He said his mother wasn't taking things so good. I got back to his house and spoke to my cousin who is also my SIL and asked if she would like to come over for a BBQ later in the day, which she agreed to. I was just about to leave and my BIL asked that I drop him and his sister off at the train station. While dropping them off I asked if they would like to join us later if they had time.

I went home and seen WW, not before texting her to say would it be ok if I were a little late as I was going to get some food for the BBQ. I don't mind having them longer was the reply. I text back saying I know that I just don't want to mess up any plans you may have. I get the boys never mess my plans up. Why does she have to be so suspect of everything.

When I got home she asked that she be able to take the boys out for dinner later in the week as she wouldn't be seeing them for 6 days and said I could do the same next week when she has them. I agreed and told her how lovely she looked as she left, no doubt to be with OM.

BBQ went fine. A load of friends turned up and there was enough food to feed the 5 thousand. BIL and SIL both turned up after there day out and I put up the tent so the boys could have their friends over to stay. I had 6 kids stay in the end. It was gone 11pm by the time they went to sleep and 6am when they woke. I won't be doing that again, I can tell you. So we all had a good day and it meant a lot to me for my IL's to come.

The next day I text my WW and said I wouldn't let her take the boys to dinner later in the week as she had refused me having them 3 hours earlier yesterday. I spoke to the boys and told them what was decided and asked them what they wanted to do. They both wanted to go out with their Mam, so I told them they could let their mother know when she phoned to speak to them. However I still feel annoyed that she has got her own way again. She had yesterday off and I am wondering whether I should ask her if she has found somewhere to live or if she has managed to arrange another meeting with the mediator. I just want this to move on now and all the time I leave her to do something she doesn't.

Do I arrange the meeting or do I let her do it, as its just dragging on now.