A brief history:

My WW and I have been married for 19 years. We separated at the beginning of March. My wife has been NC for three weeks. We have been spending some time together each day. My WW is in individual counseling and has been for 5 weeks. Just the other day she agreed to go to couples counseling.

Here's my problem. Although I have tried to get my wife to understand the concepts of MB, she says her plate is to full to take the time to get the information. She also says that she does not want to move back in together until we have resolved some of our problems. Based on our conversations, I can tell that she has very little hope that we can work out our problems and stay M. She has told me that she is tempted to just end our relationship and start her life over.

I have been focusing on treating her kindly and avoiding LB, but I don't see it having much effect. I am very frustrated, and I often feel like giving up myself.

Can anyone offer any advice or encouragement?

If ones WS is out of the marital home, it's awfully "iffy" to say for certain the WS is in NC. Often, the exact opposite is true.

As I see it, your problem right now is to get her back home so you can Plan A her. Are you supporting her in her apartment (or whatever)? If you are, I suggest you stop immediately.

When we split, we sold our house. She has enough money to get her through thte next couple of years. I was supporting her ($300 every two weeks) when my son was living with her. My son is now with me and I do not send her any money.

I guess my question is how to convince her that we need to be living together to work this out.

Sounds like she wants to go to phase two of moving the inevitable (in her mind) divorce along. She wants to go to divorce counseling. Not to worry, you can do Plan A and the time together communicating will be worth it. Don't expect much from the counselling.

I know you've been told to just move home but you keep pushing for her to agree to it. Well, if you aren't going to listen to the advice to just move home AT LEAST ask in a way that is most likely to get that result.

For example:

you: "honey, I'd like to move home soon"

Her: "OK" Thinking you mean off in the future someday..

you then MOVE HOME and deny any inference that she didn't agree to it. She did. Don't hammer out the details and take any indication as an OK and do it, immediately.

She may move out thereafter...she may not. Waywards are notorious bluffers and usually too distracted in an active affair and too lazy in withdrawal to actually follow through on their threats. At the very least, you get a few days to Plan A her before she leaves and you're right back in the situation you have NOW only YOU ARE HOME and SHE is uncomfortable AND the kids are uncomfortable.

Your kids can handle TEMPORARY uncomfortableness (which will be perceived to be a result of her NOT YOU), for a short time if it's purpose is the greater good...the survival of your family.

Good luck and sorry if I'm on the wrong fact pattern.

Mr. Wondering

L,

Glad to see you here again. My apologies if I missed other threads in GQII.

Did you get Surviving an Affair? I've forgotten. In it, there are timelines...which are different for the BS and the WS...can explain your frustration.

Included in the timeline is Withdrawal, which is what WS go through after NC...can take some time. Not fully out of the fog...not totally in it. Very tough time for the BS.

Also, are you doing Plan A to get a certain outcome? Or are you doing it because you realized all your LB's weren't who you really wanted to be...not how you wanted to act. That your acts of love and kindness are who you really are?

Knowing your true intent is your half of the marriage. Can only be yours. Assists greatly in fighting for your marriage.

Are you listening and repeating? When she says she is tempted to just end the marriage...do you acknowledge (not approve) that's her choice, and hand it back with choice?

These tools are really important to learn...for your whole life. And I'm with Longhorn...I wouldn't have been able to verify NC was still in place (my job) when my WH lived outside the home.

Maybe some other posters could help, who have been through that.

Please keep reading and posting. If you can keep this to one thread...don't be afraid of bumping it to get more advice. You know you're not alone...we've been through this...and you're not crazy, a doormat or wrong. You may, however, experience this if you are acting to manipulate your WW back instead of doing an authentic Plan A.

You are worth coming home to, 'k? Remember that.

LA

Yeah...wrong fact pattern. Sorry, mistook your case for another.

Hopefully you can find the best counselor in your area that will cut through her crap and get to marriage restoration instead of "happiness" building. Spend your time trying to find that counselor and somehow convince WW that you found the perfect guy/girl. Careful though, she might not want to go to someone "you've set up against her" so act like it's just a casual referral instead of someone you REALLY investigated.

Her goal in divorce counseling: To convince the counselor that your bad, awful, controlling, etc, that the marriage is over, that you should let her go, etc. She will NOT discuss the affair. To her, it's irrelevant.

I've seen some good posts over the years that address how you should exactly handle such a counseling session.


Mr. Wondering

I can't see how decieving her and moving back in will help my case. It has been hard for me to get through to her because she is operating on her "gut feelings". I have tried to tell her that my desire to move back in is at the urging of professionals (WF).

When we try to talk she gets very defensive and tunes me out. I'm wondering how I might get through to her.

LA,

I did get Surviving an Affair, fall in love stay in love, and His need Her needs. I just finished SAA.

I am doing plan A because I still love my wife. Ido believe that we can remain married and fall in love again. Of all of the sites that I've checked out, MB just feels right.

When my WW tells me her thoughts, which is not that often, I do acknowledge her point of view and I do not try to argue.

MW- I look around for some time to find the right MC. My wife has agreed to go, and she did it in her own time. I did not pressure her to act before she said she was ready

One problemm I am having is avoiding LB. This process is new to me and I have not been as patient as I should.

Losinit, stay with us. I have a nagging feeling something is being left out of your posts, but I don't know what it is. For right now, all you can do is work your Plan A and make it a sterling one.

What are you doing to make yourself an attractive spouse? We don't know your WW. What are your wife's strongest EN's? If you can identify the one or two strongest, work on improving yourself to the point where you can once again meet those for her.

Pardner, your marriage didn't get to this point quickly, and it'll be just as long getting out of the hole it's in. You're going to have to be patient and if that means getting on antidepressants, then do it.

Stay strong, pardner.

LH,

One of my wifes biggest EN is physical attractiveness. I have basically changed wy wardobe since we have separated. She has shown some approval. Also, I make sure that I look my best and smeel good whenever I she her.

I think that one her next strongest EN is security. I blew this one with my drinking before we split. I have quit drinking completely now. It has only been a week. She has a hard time believing that I actually quit.

I did have a good talk with her tonight, and I was able to tell her what I needed from her. I also went over the four rules for marital recovery. I don't always get much of a response from her, but I do believe that she is begining to hear me.

Thanks for your posts tonight. It has been a rough week.

How about a dual plan? Personal recovery and marital recovery?

Where you take steps now, for you, with AA meetings? I believe they could be awesome support (12-steps to a better life) for both your acting on your new resolve and an aid to personal recovery from WW's infidelity. Alanon was a lifesaver for me!

Would you share what you told her you needed from her?

Are you educating her? Plan A doesn't have recovery talk...not until after withdrawal.

And now I'm confused...are you the one who can move back in with her, or (as I thought) she had gotten her own apt recently?

We're here for ya...

LA

I am in individual counciling and have been for over a year. I do not currently go to AA, but I will probably begin to go to at least a meeting a week. I have gone to AA for extended periods in the past.

The thing that I told my W that I needed the most was honesty and openness. She does not tell me her thoughts very often, and I am left to try to read her mind. I also told her that it was very important to me that we spend as much time as possible together.

My wife and I both have our own apartments. I live with my two boys, 19 and 17. She does not want me to move back in at this time.

I am trying to educate her to some of the MB concepts. I don't usually spend a lot of time on this, but I try to give her bits of information so that she can better understand where I am coming from.

I think that should not happen at all until the WS actually shows interest in recovering the M, and even so should be done in a climate of mutual respect.

It's tough though, particularly when your (F)WS's actions make you just want to scream out "WTF are you DOING??" and give them a drubbing that would have even Obelix in awe...

Just think what you were like with your S at the start of your relationship. Were you educating/lecturing/etc. them about what makes a good relationship? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

Okay, security is normally very high on a woman's EN list. You blew it one night, but you can recover from that. A sincere apology and verifiable action to correct the deficiency will put you right back on track. As LA suggested, consider AA if your doctor indicates there's any possibility you might be developing an addiction to alcohol. Please don't try to evaluate it yourself.

See, Plan A is a personal recovery mechanism. I'm convinced, though Dr. Harley hasn't said this, that Plan A is a kinda/sorta way of depositing credits to your LB during a time when your WW can't, or won't. Certainly, one's improving self-image can't hurt, right? When you feel better about yourself, it shows and a spouse will pick up on it.

Finally, I'm not sure how you're approaching the four rules for recovery. With respect, if you push, she will withdraw. I think you must be very, very sensitive to a perception on her part that you're being overbearing. Go slow, okay? Let her come to you. This is awfully, awfully early, as LA said to be talking relationship. Again, move slowly.

It is still very early after establishing no contact. Keep verifying that there is no contact, or counseling is a waste.

Don't try to educate her. And do try to spend at least 15 hours a week doing fun things together.

Thanks again for your input. I will back off my education and stick with plan A.

Part of the reason I am going to IC is for substance abuse. I do not try to evaluate myself. I have some good friends in AA and I keep in touch with them. I plan to resume meetings because I believe that the twelve step program can help in many areas of my life.

I love the 12Step program. It is great for all kinds of things.

Your wife is behaving about like they all do. As long as there is no contact she should come around. In the meantime, work on your issues.

Absolutely the twelve step program's effects will spread into other areas which need addressing! Sir, don't "plan" on resuming those meetings, do it tomorrow, okay? You'll NEVER have things in your life arranged "just right" so the meetings won't interfer.

Besides the benefit to yourself and your health, this will have a huge impact on your WW. Think about it from her POV. You're doing something for yourself, something you badly need to do, and you're doing it because you know you should, not because she nagged you (not that I'm presuming a woman would ever do that, mind you). Anyway, it'll be (quietly) very effective in showing her the new, improved you.

Go to an AA meeting tomorrow, okay?

What I see, L, is two halves...

To come back to work on the marriage, your WW has to agree to NC, stay in NC, report any contact, stay transparent...possible go to counseling (the roadmap you gave her)...

And you give her your roadmap...where you stay in IC, go to meetings (and both would be great...Alanon and AA, I think)...

And together, you commit to 15 hours of RC time together (no R talk), and reteach your brains you are not each other's enemies, you are each other's partners.

Which is what we all have to do...lay out our plans for ourselves, our marriage and our boundaries.

And radical honesty is HUGE for addiction recovery...which parallels your WW's recovery, as well...A's are an addiction to feelings, not people. Sound familiar?

You're in this together...you are far from alone...stay focused on your choices and go tomorrow night to a meeting.

LA

Ditto what LA said.