I am writing based on my experience, and sometimes pick up little statements that hit me. So I write to give you another view. You are very kind in your responses and not defensive, so it seems you are open to hearing opinions.
There are many good fathers on these boards who do not get nearly enough time with their children, so if you believe you are truly a good, involved father, fight for your rights.

I feel it is important to give you the mom's view that they are losing time with their children, and yet still have to take the brunt of responsibility. GG said it well when she suggested you split responsibility for doctors visits, etc. Perhaps you will take responsibility for sports, while mom takes dance or music or something else.

Cooperation is important, as is flexibility in coparenting.

As I was told, bend over backward, and when you think you can't bend anymore - bend further.

I am so sad telling my DD's yet again that they can't participate in things. How do you explain to a child that her father won't take her to the father-daughter dance? Not all fathers who want 50/50 actually want it in the best interest of the children.

newly - I think that our personal experiences are valid and legitimate elements of our opinions. You have shared your's; please let me share mine.

I grew up in a single parent household before it was the popular thing to do. My dad promptly moved to another city over 300 miles away to be with his affair partner, whom he married and eventually D'd. My mom worked as a grocery checkout clerk; odd hours and little money. CS was non-existent.

I saw my dad maybe 3 or 4 times a year. Perhaps one week out of the summer when he'd drive my brother and I up for a one week visit. Maybe he'd come down 2 or 3 weekends to visit us. Take us to dinner or brunch. Tell us to be ready a 9am, show up at noon. Or not show up at all.

I was very little. It was all that I knew. I didn't feel the stark contrast of having two parents and then one. But I still knew. I still felt the loss - the hole.

My kids will never feel that way. At least not because of me.

I value Green's advice, but I disagree with her regarding clear lines of responsibility and I'll tell you why. There is no element of my kids' lives that I don't want to be a part of. If they go to the doctor's office, I want to know why. I want to know what the doc said. If they go to a soccer game, I will be there. I don't want miss DD's or DS's first goal. I want to be there if they suffer an injury on the field and have to be carried off. I don't want any part of their life to be excluded from me or exclusive of me.

I don't know your whole story and wonder if your marriage can be saved.
I truly believe in the MB principles and believe they can significantly improve marriages (except in cases of abuse).

If you are in this situation, how you handle it will be key to your children's development. There are many great books on parenting children through divorce, coparenting, and on helping yourself. We are just one resource here. One book I loved was called "Speaking of Divorce" It was a simple question and answer format to help you answer the many questions children have after just learning about, and living through the process.

We have one book on order now: "Helping Your Kids Cope with Divorce the Sandcastles Way", by Gary Nueman. My W ordered and it we're waiting on it now. I've also paid particular attention to the chapters that address it in some other general books about divorce and separation.

Thanks for the recommendation. I will check it out.

I love that book. Unless they've updated it significantly, you will get a shock at the proposed parenting plans, particularly for children as young as yours. Their plans were heavily skewed toward mom.
Check your local library too for resources. Mom's house/dad's house is a great book too with great ideas.
Don't rely on only one. Three are many great options/suggestions. The state you live in matters too, as my state is more toward equal parenting time than other states are.

My state also requires parents to attend a class on parenting agreements and gives out a booklet saying you must work together for your children. They also give a free hour of mediation to work out parenting plans, which is great if both parents are in agreement. You can wrap the whole thing up right there.

The friend I mentioned who had the 50/50, they each had a lawyer, but knocked out the parenting agreement and most of their divorce themselves sitting in a McDonald's for a few hours. So it can be done. And she relies a great deal on the X and stepmom for parenting help. He could have gotten more than 50/50.

Grrrrrrr... That makes me wonder if she's gaming me then. Cherry picking stuff that supports her POV. I will check out what you recommend as well.


According to my lawyer, it depends more on the court than the state. He feels we caught a fair one.


We don't have that here. Found out that my W already consulted a child psych. She didn't tell me about it until after the fact.


I figure 50/50 is a baseline. If I get more than that, great! More is better. But my W is a great mom. Involved and loves the kids. I don't see her becoming neglectful like someone with a wayward mentality.

I did specifically tell her that I was firm on 50/50 unless she could show me proof why it's harmful to the kids. I was naive to think that she wouldn't look for material to prove that.

I can't wait to get to the bookstore now.

Without seeing other versions of suggestions, I would never have known that that book was so skewed, so perhaps your W doesn't know that.

My kids were about the same age as yours are now. Not alot of input from kids available. Eval interviewed caregivers, teachers, docs, dentists who rarely ever saw X.

I offered X more time in mediation. He refused. Demanded a psych eval. He ended up with less and spent $$$$.
I ended up with a better explanation of alot of things about X (NPD), and some really good suggestions on parenting time. (Evaluator had standardized wording he used which to those of us who don't do this every day, really made sense).
Be explicit about when custody can be reviewed.
Post D, it stated custody could be re-evaluated 6 months after we were settled. X has never pursued more time, although many people are amazed he's kept up with his time at all.

Is there a local divorce support group you can attend? Ours had people at all stages divorce. and generated many great ideas, as well as info on court systems and lawyers.

Also, see if there is a rainbows class nearby so that when you tell the kids, they have a "support" group. www.rainbows.org now goes down to 3 year olds.

Unilateral parenting decisions are being made already. Do you see where this is heading? You are out of the loop.

Stay very involved in any psych visits. My X had this done also, at the suggestion of her atty. It's only purpose was to provide a skewed psych evaluation that could be used in her favor.

This is basically a 4 on 1 sitch. W's Atty, W, Psych Dr, and your unwitting children who are going to be fed certain questions in search of certain answers. Stay highly involved in this evaluation or it will bite you in the [censored].

As amicable as you think your divorce can be, don't let your guard down. You will get blind sided. Your W is suing you for divorce and custody of your children. She is the enemy.

May I just politely point out one thing, Seabird?? Your DD5 and DS3 are your children just as much as they are her children -and- she is the one choosing to leave them and the home that they are used to. That is NOT in their best interests. Thus, nothing personal, but I think her worry about "their best interests" is bull ca-ca at best. It is their best interest to have their mommy honor her commitment to their daddy!

Now, that being said, I realistically would suggest that you change your point of view on this. This is not, "WW calling the custody shots and determining when and/or if the kids can be with BH"--this is "faithful parent BH determining when it is best for his children to be with a person who models unfaithfulness." You are their PARENT and you are the one who is caring for them while their mother leaves them to her self-interests. Thus, change your perspective to one of being the PRIMARY parent, and decide when you would like to allow the children to see their mother (not the other way around).

Next, if I were you I would search the internet for parenting plan schedules and recommendations based on the children's ages. Here are a few examples:

* Every Saturday from 10:00 a.m. until 10:00 a.m. Sunday. Every Monday and Wednesday evening from 4:30 p.m. until 7:30 p.m.; some contact/feeding/bedtime takes place at residential parent’s home. (very young-preschooler)
* Two weekdays from 1:00 p.m. until 5:00 p.m. (substituting for child care); every Friday from 1:00 p.m. until 12:00 p.m. on Saturday. (older preschooler)
* Two weekdays from 1:00 p.m. until 5:00 p.m.. (substituting for child care). Overnights every Thursday night. Every other weekend Thursday from 1:00 p.m. until 2:00 p.m. on Sunday. (young elementary)
* Every Thursday from 5:00 p.m. until 5:00 p.m. on Saturday. (elementary)
* Every Wednesday from 3:00 p.m. until 5:00 p.m. on Saturday with one parent; every Saturday at 5:00 p.m. until 3:00 p.m. on Wednesday with the other parent. (older elementary)
* Every Monday and Tuesday with one parent; every Wednesday and Thursday with the other parent. Alternate weekends from Friday through Sunday with each parent.(middle school age)
* Every Wednesday from 3:00 p.m. until 5:00 p.m. on Saturday with one parent; every Saturday from 5:00 p.m. until 3:00 p.m. on Wednesday with the other parent. (older student)
* Alternate weeks with each parent with exchanges on either Fridays or Sundays (older student)

There are literally hundreds of options out there, but as the parent that is truly thinking of the children before their own self-interest, I would just suggest that you study about the emotional developement of your children at their current age, and suggest (and stick to) alternatives that match THEIR needs.

Your faithful friend,



CJ

I looked at the Sandcastles book last night, and unless it was updated significantly - GET MORE OPTIONS!
For teenagers, with outstanding parenting skills - they only suggest dad gets 25% of the time. Much less for younger children - even with outstanding parenting skills.

That said, CJ is right about finding ways to help your children, and Sandcastles is good for that. A quick glance at Mom's House/Dad's House did not give proposed schedules.

If necessary, look up Glenn Sacks. He has a dad's right group & website.

Educate yourself.

I am blind with anger this morning. I could barely sleep at all last night. I confronted my W and asked her what her intentions are. She says that she doesn't have any intentions, she just wants to talk to her lawyer when he gets back on Monday. I asked if I was going to hear from him that all she's willing to offer is SPO. She told me, "No, you're not going to hear that from him." But she did go on to say that because she was the one doing everything with them and taking them everywhere before, she thinks it would be best for them to spend most of their time with her.

My lawyer is out until Monday as well. I will call him then and order to him to circle the wagons. I have also been reading up on father's rights issues. I won't settle for the bare minimum without a fight.

Lawyers feed on emotional clients. That's how they make their money.
Since you have this weekend, get to a bookstore and get Mom's house/dad's house. Read it, and begin drafting proposed documents to show your lawyer. (We know you can type and are intelligent). Do as much as you can yourself.

I didn't ask whether your lawyer uses email. If they don't, find another lawyer. There was so much I could do myself by reviewing and editing documents. I journaled conversations, and rather than telling lawyer, or his paralegal, I just pasted it into emails, so they had the documentation without added expense.

I didn't learn whether your wife is a SAHM or working mom. I was a working mom with pretty much full responsibility for the kids, but that didn't prevent X from demanding 50/50. I always thought, if he was as good a father as he believed himself to be, we wouldn't be divorcing. Could your wife say the same? (Again, just a mom's perspective).

newly - I believe that is what she is saying to herself. Doesn't make it true. Again, I think that her recollection is selective.

Here is a good study that I dug up this morning:
http://www.apa.org/journals/releases/fam16191.pdf

My attorney does use email and he's pretty current with most studies.

I just dug this one up myself and sent it to my W.
Basically says that children in joint custody arrangements fare much better than children in sole custody (primarily maternal) arrangements. Barring abuse of course. And while joint physical custody isn't isn't absolutely necessary, children who spend a significant amount of time with their dads are much better off.

Don't roll over SB. You are these kid's dad just like she is their mother. No way you should be relegated to an EOW, Disney World Dad while she remarries and makes Mr. Step Dad a bigger part of their lives than you are.

Get a mean, nasty attorney and tell him to have at it if she will not reasonable.

BA is right, Seabird. Get pro-active with the counselor now. My guess is if it was only a phone interview, the counselor wasn’t as definitive as your wife suggested. I’d try signing everyone up for some family counseling and inviting her along. If she objects, she’ll have some real explaining to do.

I’m hoping, Seabird, that your wife will come around. But, it’s looking kind of dark right now. I think you have to be prepared for a battle. Your wife is not thinking of the children’s best interest. Her rationale of “I should get them more because I did more for all those years” doesn’t hold up to the test. Time with the children is not payment for services rendered. Her rationale suggests her having time with the children is a way of punishing you for not helping more.

Unfortunately, the people who suffer the most are the children. They will suffer more than even than you do because they need you.

BTW, my point wasn’t that you shouldn’t be involved in everything your children do, if you can. But, more that someone has to be responsible for making appointments for physicals, for dentists, for pediatrists, for any number of things. Someone has to be responsible for searching for and finding after school care, or more difficult, good summer camps that suit working parents. It’s a lot of work just keeping track of what you need to schedule.

If you wife is being unilateral already, dividing up some of the responsibility and power may work best. Obviously, major events don’t get divided up. Deciding what school, what religion, medical treatment, and counseling are joint decisions unless one of you stonewalls the other. Even extra activities can be joint decisions, but it’s often easier is you two decide “Piano lessons” but one of you finds the teacher. Then you decide “Ice Hockey” and the other chooses the rink and coach.

Make sure if you are into music or sports, or whatever, that you can be the one responsible for organizing that activity. Otherwise, it may never happen.

The routine with my ex and me goes like this. Me: Daughter wants to play guitar. What do you think?” Him: That sounds fine. Me: Okay. I’ll work on it. [Later] Me: I found two people that teach. One is X and teaches at y pm. The other A and teaches at b pm. Which do you think?” Him: I know nothing about these people. I need more information. [I send information via email. Nothing. Or he doesn’t like the choices and says he’ll come up with his own, which about 50% of the time he does.]

Now, I can see my ex’s point. He wanted to make all the decisions when we were married, and did. He still wants to have power over all decisions. However, half the time, he’s often unwilling to do the organization behind it. Meanwhile, I’ve put in hours and I get resentful because the kids get short-changed. (Also, my ex just likes to thwart me—no exaggeration there. I’ve done experiments like saying “The sky is blue” and getting “No, it’s not.”)

If you wife is willing to keep the children from you because she resents that she changed more diapers than you, she may not be able to work with you for the sake of the children. As willing as you are to do whatever it takes, she still may not be willing.

Also, do not offer a trade of your retirement, the house, everything for the children. You need to take care of yourself so that you can take care of them. You are the rock right now and you need to stay the rock. In part, that means financial security for the children. Your wife makes good money and, if I’m not mistaken, has her own retirement fund. You need yours so that you are not a burden to the children in later years. You need your share of the house so that you can provide a decent place for them when they are with you. And you need the wherewithal to care for them if she goes off the deep end in her quest to find herself.

GG makes some good points above that I don't want to go unnoticed. How much are you willing to do for your kids? IF they want to be involved in sports, will you support that, pay and take them? Or will you just agree and take no responsibility? I believe that what you are willing to do for/with your kids is a key factor to setting the parenting time schedule.

We didn't discuss your work schedule in this post, but if you work 7a-7p or travel frequently, is it realistic to have the kids so much?

Again, I come from a different experience, but one I think you need to hear as your develop your long term plans. My X never responds to calls or faxes, much less activities. So like GG states above "My children get short-changed". As a mother who wants so much for her children, that's a difficult position to be in. What I fear that my DD's hear is that they are not priorities in their father's life. Yes, he has them far more than many great father's, but he doesn't seem to make what is important to them his priority.

Green and newly - Thanks for the replies. What I meant by giving up everything else to be with them, I meant in terms of spending the kinds to resources I need to in order to be more than just a weekend dad.

I told my IC this morning that I want for my kids to know that I am a Parent. That I can take care of them. That I can feed them, and clothe them, and help them with their homework, and comfort them when they're hurting. That I'm not just a sperm donor that takes them to Chuck E. Cheese 6 times a month. That is the best way, I think, for them to feel safe and secure around me. Does all of that makes sense?

Yes, I will encourage whatever hobbies and interests they have. Yes I will pay for them. Yes I will attend them. And yes, I will practice with them.

My work schedule is pretty normal and typical. No 7-7 shifts. No real travel. Maybe once or twice a year if anything. My company is moving me to a new office that's further away and will play havoc with my commute, but I am interviewing for a new job that will bring me back downtown and alleviate that stress.

I had the kids alone all weekend. My mom is in the state visiting and was staying with my aunt who lives in the country 60 miles south of town. We spent all day Sat and Sun there. It felt great. I was surrounded by supportive people and my kids had a blast. Swimming, exploring, playing with their cousins... Not ONCE did they cry for their mom. Not even when she called me on Saturday night to say goodnight to them. They spoke to her, said goodnight, and settled in without any issues. It was a GREAT feeling knowing that they felt so safe and comfortable with me.

Anyway, I got a referral from my IC for a child psychologist and I will call her today. I also emailed my attorney and we set up an appointment for me to come in to discuss my options with him tomorrow at 1pm. I guess I will find out how good my odds are of getting more than the minimum then.

Did you get a copy of Mom's House/Dad's House yet?

Your responses to my comments show that you are carefully thinking through and considering all points of view. A steady work schedule is very important to co-parenting. (I don't always write diplomatically, and you certainly see that my posts are not an attack. (I even have someone edit my letters to my x to take out unintended wording)).


Regarding the Child Psych your wife consulted. No good one will talk to only one side without interviewing all parties involved, so it really means nothing, other than she made an introductory call. And your lawyer will find one who will be sympathetic to your cause.

Thanks newly. I appreciate you being open-minded about this. I admit it... I was afraid that I was being saddled with the missteps of your XH. I've made enough of my own to not want to take on anyone else's. LOL! I see that wasn't the case though. That you were just forcing me to think it through very carefully, is that right? To make sure that I'm not saying things in reaction to my W's behavior.

I am well aware of the terrible irony involved. That if only I had been doing these things earlier - making this kind of effort earlier, then I might not be losing my family. I am answering for that now. I will have to answer for it later to my children when it comes time for me to admit my role in the failure of this marriage. All I can do now is my best at this particular point in time while being mindful of both the past and the future.

I didn't get a chance to pick up that book yet as I was out of town all weekend. I will pick it up today.

My best friend through the divorce I met in a Divorce support group. Her X is anal-retentive, so she sends me emails so that I can translate anal-retentive into normal language to her.

Should you need to use a psych, I would not fear. Good ones interview both parties, give standard psych tests, and try to assess the flexibility of each party. You sound more than normal, and will likely fair well in this assessment. My X didn't fair so well, and totally flunked the flexibility piece (stated it, but didn't show it) and ended up with less time than I had offered.
A good psych will also set a reassessment schedule since your children are so young (same age as mine at that time). Funny how my X never took advantage of revisiting the schedule. Most people think he has all he can handle, and can't handle more kid time.