Okay, those who know me from other posts can go ahead and do the "I told you so" dance.

I came up for a visit because I have a job interview later this week. I got in too late last night to tell him anything because he just wanted to sleep.

So today he leaves for work and I use his computer and decide to look in his email program. He's been talking to at least two women, one of which he called a ****** because she tried to hit him up for money. The other plays on that game he's been neglecting me for for years. Don't know if any turned physical but with me out of state it doesn't look good.

I called him at work and he didn't answer so I left this message. "I know about your activities. I've had some of my own. We have a lot to talk about.

But what really hurts is that UNLIKE ME, he was looking for a replacement spouse. No wonder he kept threatening divorce. He was just waiting around until someone better came along. I don't even know if I want to work things out now. He knew I wanted to work things out and he said he just needed to concentrate on his job search. Apparently he was concentrating on a new wife search instead.

Wow.

Well, I understand how you feel. Like you, I came here as an active wayward wife to find a way to end my affair. During recovery, my husband confessed to his own indiscretions. It blew me away and I wondered if our marriage could ever survive such a tangled-up mess.

That was a year ago. We're making progress. It can be done.

One advantage to your (and my) situation: you can feel each other's pain. You can understand, because you've been down that same road. You already realize that the blame is equally distributed, and that you both have hard work to do.

You've learned a lot in the past few months Aph. Don't give up.

~Saturn

Thanks, Saturn. The problem is he'll have to change in so many ways to make this work, and he's never been willing to do that. I have had to make all the changes. If he doesn't take some blame and offer to make changes this time, I don't think I'd have the patience for plan A or B. He has to be willing to meet me at least partway or I've had it. I already know it would be easy for me to find another man.

How do you know that he's actually looking for a "replacement spouse"?

Sounds like you've both been ignoring each other's needs and having your own needs met elsewhere. I just wonder why when you did it (and didn't know he was doing it) you expected him to take you back...but when you find out he's doing it too you throw up your hands and assume it can't be fixed?

I don't think I'd go into the conversation with him with the "I already know it would be easy for me to find another man" attitude!

cathys01,

My thinking was that I broke the monogamy aspect of our commitment, but I did not break the stay-together-forever aspect of it. I see them as two different things and he broke both whereas I broke one, plus I decided to stop, plus I was about to confess. I brought my confession letter all written and ready to go. But I didn't "expect" him to take me back, I was just hoping. You can't fix anything if you assume it can't be fixed.

The reason I assumed he was looking for a replacement spouse is that he was telling other women he was "separated" that he was leaving me and that he was looking for a woman to stay home and have kids. He had multiple online ads. He *says* he was only saying those things to get women to talk to him in the same way that he lied about his age. He shaved 15 years off! He claims he had no intention of ever meeting anyone in person but that's what you'd expect him to say given the situation. I'm sure if he actually found someone 18-29 who fit what he was looking for, he would have hooked up with her.

When I first talked to him tonight he said his mind was set on divorce but he has softened up somewhat. His attitude is he'd like to fix things but thinks it would be impossible. But then later we were talking about what sort of place we should rent together when my lease is up. So he is all over the map.

But he's still hyperfocused on getting a new job and I don't think I can get him to do very much before then. He refused to read my disclosure/confession letter. I think he is afraid to. He won't go to this site to read anything. But this is only the first day and he is saying some pretty crazy things so he must be really confused.

He said he wants me to stay home and have another kid and just take care of the kids and house and at the same time he also wants me to go to work and make lots of money. I told him, well...that's not something you can solve by divorcing me.

He said he thought about a 3-person arrangement and was going to talk me into it. I said well there was a time when I might have agreed to that if I could bring another guy in but you probably would have said no. He agreed that he would have said no. Then I joked that I would have wanted to bring 2 other guys in and he said "I feel sick," and I realized it wasn't so funny after all.

And one of the things he was really mad about was when I mentioned recently that I didn't want to live near my ex-bf if he (my husband) wasn't nearby. I said that partly as a boundary-protection measure but he took it the wrong way and thought that I wanted to leave him and go back to my ex-bf. It hadn't at all occurred to me that he would interpret it that way but I can see now how he did.

A lot what's going on with him has to do with financial fears. He is afraid if he can't find a job then the only way we could survive would be for me to go on welfare but I could only do that if I were single. He could improve his career dramatically if he got some professional certifications but that costs money. There are possible solutions to the problem and we discussed them but we really need to spend a lot of time creating a budget and talking about this stuff - along with all the other stuff eventually.

So, is the cat out of the bag? I know you said he refused to read your letter...but you physically told him about all of your affairs?

Aphareresis,

You said
What a load of self-serving **** (justifications) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> First, you don't KNOW he has done anything but communicate with this woman. Perhaps in your book that is the same a fornicating, but in most books it is not even close. You are playing the blame game here, and it is not a pretty sight.

You did what you did and YOU need to face it address it, and work on it. You claim you were about to tell him, but frankly "about to" is the same as "have not". You don't know if he would have told you or not. You are making DJ's like crazy to justify your own poor choices.

I would like to see you save this marriage, but frankly until you get your head right, no marriage will survive with your current thinking. You betrayed him pure and simple and you did it multiple times with multiple men. You did so of your own choice and it really doesn't matter what he did or did not do. You are accountable for YOUR actions.

Please don't play the blame game on this one.

God Bless,

JL

Neither one of you has been available as a caring spouse whose daily intent is to make the other happy ... neither one of you has been making consistent love bank deposits ... both of you bring very bad habits to the marriage

IF he was looking for a "replacement spouse", it would be reasonable to assume he was very unhappily married to you .... ask yourself why is he not happily married to you

Your best chance for future happiness IS with THIS man .... believe it or not !!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

changing to a new spouse
a new lover
a new affair

only makes you more unhappy

marriage, as you've done it so far, is a disaster

how about throwing out all your past habits and starting over ... with each other .... using Harley's rules for creating a loving lifetime partnership?

it's not going to be easy
but you are less likely to succeed with someone else ... you (both) need to change yourself, not change partners

This whole post says not-so-wonderful things about you.

Think it over <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

JL, nothing has changed from her GQ thread. More of the same self-centeredness and justifications for HER actions.


"My thinking was that I broke the monogamy aspect of our commitment, but I did not break the stay-together-forever aspect of it. I see them as two different things"

Once more she shows her "commitment" level to marriage. "As long as we are legally married it is NOT IMPORTANT to remain exclusively yours. FIDELITY does NOT mean anything.

Let's assume for a minute that her husband HAS been having his own affairs (I wouldn't be in the least surprised).

Can anyone say "OPEN MARRIAGE?" Forget fidelity, it does not exist in their "world."

Self-centeredness and Selfishness rule the day. I asked Aphaeresis on her GQ thread WHO or WHAT she would surrender HER OWN wants and desires to OTHER THAN herself.

This thread shows cleary that NEITHER Aphaeresis nor her husband put anyone or anything above their own "thinking" and "feelings." They WILL do whatever they feel like doing at the moment. She claims to have her own "beliefs" (faith), and I agree with her. The one she has chosen is the one that "allows" her to do whatever she feels like doing. The same apparently holds true for her husband, since he, also by Apharaesis' claim, believes in the same permissive SecHum belief.

She has steadfastly refused to learn, to listen, to agree with anything or anyone who tells her that she needs fundamental change in herself. She argues that her husband isn't capable of change, or at least is unwilling to change, and uses that as further "justification" that is "OKAY" to NOT remain "monogamous" (READ this as NOT remain FAITHFUL) to her spouse.

There really seems to be little point in trying to help her.

The only thing left seems to be to "protect" other newly betrayed members from her totally selfish, "Wayward Spouse," beliefs, rationalizations, and justfications FOR being an Adulterer or Adulteress.

NEVER forget, never, that she has DEFINED herself and her "marriage view" with this one statement:

"I see them as two different things "

What she SAID was that the ONLY thing that "matters" to her is BEING married legally, NOT spritually, and certainly NOT monogamously. FIDELITY IN MARRIAGE is NOT in her "belief structure."

This site is about Marriage BUILDING, about fidelity in marriage, and NOT about justifying cheating as a preferred or "okay" lifestyle.

Pep, she HAS thought it over and rejected anything other than "I will do whatever I want to do."

It would be helpful to her if she did change some of her beliefs, but she has rejected all attempts to really look at her core beliefs that give her license to do whatever she feels like doing.

"I have had to make all the changes."

WHAT changes has she made? She claims to have given up her adulterous relationships, but she told everyone that she DOES NOT believe in a monogamous marriage. ALL she cares about that is remotely related to "marriage" is that she remains "legally married" to one person, but NOT that she remain exclusive TO that person.

There is NO change here other than "what she wants for the moment." For the moment she wants to be faithful to just one man. But her core belief will not "hold her to that." It will be only so long as that is her "belief du jour." Once the mental menu changes, she will be off to sample that "meat" at "YOUR" house.


This is one horse, sadly, who will NOT drink from anything other than her own mud puddle.

FH, you are not being productive. Please stop posting to this topic. I don't need someone cheer leading for the destruction of my marriage. That's not what this site is about.

Everyone else,

Thank you. I was describing my initial reaction as I was experiencing it at the time. We've had several long talks since then. I do want to save the marriage, and I think he does too but he's more reluctant than I am because he's more pessimistic about our odds.

One of the things he's mad about is that I got rid of some stuff because we were spending too much money on storage ($550 a month). We're under tremendous financial pressure right now but I apologized. He said it's not the stuff he's upset about but the breach of trust. I don't know why he is focused on that and not my infidelities as a breach of trust, but maybe this is something that is easier for him to talk about.

As for what I told him...I told him I knew about his activities and that I have had some of my own. I told him before I even knew about his, I decided to quit and wrote him a confession letter, which I then handed to him. He tossed it aside angrily and said he wasn't going to read it. He thinks it will just make him more depressed. I guess I could leave it out in a place where he'll see it if he changes his mind.

He's not going to do much in the way of trying to repair things with us until he gets a job. But maybe if we spend time together without fighting he'll feel better.

I know that eventually we need to exchange computer passwords and things like that. He's not interested in MB right now, but I know how my husband is. It'll take some time to warm him up to the idea. I was wondering if voluntarily handing over my passwords without expecting his in return (yet) would be a good idea? Or would it feel like I was pressuring him?

Just Learning,
What you said seems to be different from MB principles. An emotional affair is still an affair, and he had several. It was also not something he innocently fell into with a friend. No, he was actively looking for women using online personals ads claiming that he was "separated." So we both did wrong and he is not excused just because he didn't screw anyone. The only reason he didn't is because of lack of opportunity because the relationships had not progressed far enough. Had I caught him a year from now the situation would be quite different. Sure, he says he had no intention of hooking up, but what else is he going to say? Even if the intention was not there, it still would have happened eventually. So like I said, we were both in the wrong. No excuses for either of us.

Why do you continue to drag this out? Fess up already! You have told him nothing of your 'activities' as you so discreetly put it.

Granted, you are both doing the marriage wrong by your actions but you seem to be holding this over his head as if YOU are in the drivers seat.

Even up the playing field. Fess up! Put all the facts out on the table. In all these lengthy discussions you can't seem to muster up the courage to confess. Is it all about him and his actions? That's cowardly.

A letter of confession that he conveniently tosses aside and refuses to read? I smell BS.

ba ... I agree

Post question involves a potential TJ so I moved it to a new thread on the Recovery Forum:

How does "only communicating" with the OP come close to fornicating in the 'MB book'?

Ace

What you are saying is that I should tell him things against his will. He has very clearly expressed his preferences, and those preferences are very likely to change when he's ready. Doesn't he have the right to set his own time table?

If I had been cheating when my H wanted to confess, I would have put him off, too.

One of us would have eventually had to bite the bullet, or continue to exist in a fearful, detaching, lovebusting stalemate for who knows how long.

If we would have had young kids at home, I probably would have blasted through my fear.

Probably.

Ace

What you are saying is that I should tell him things against his will. He has very clearly expressed his preferences, and those preferences are very likely to change when he's ready. Doesn't he have the right to set his own time table?

How very convenient for you...as usual.

EVERYTHING prevents you from confessing, doesn't it?

"Distance" prevented you.

"He won't read my letter" prevented you.

"He is fooling around too" prevented you.

The most insane thing I have ever read is that you consider what he is doing worse than what you are you doing...which is every man you could get hold of.

He has the audacity to look for a new spouse...you were just doing men....many men...and that's not as bad. He broke the forever clause. <gag>

Your warped logic is going to be your ultimate downfall...if it hasn't already.

committed

Pepper,

I have this awful feeling this woman's real name is Sara. Or is it Sari? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

No one can keep coming up with excuses as she does, and no man I know would ignore infidelity on the level she has posted here.

This is just too nutty and depressing.

JL

I'm not depressed <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I'm a little nutty <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />