Hi...I am new here, and in need of some advice. I recently found out that my wife of 14 years cheated on me 3 years ago. We have been working on dealing with that, and she swears it was the biggest mistake she has ever made, and how sorry she is. That said, there was another guy in her past that I had suspicions about, and my question to anyone out there is about him. Let's call him Tom.

Tom is a friend of my wife's brother, he lives in another State, and she had only chatted with him on the phone a few times. Well, 8 years ago, there was a family get-together, and Tom was there (first time she had met him face-to-face). We all talked, but I had an uneasy feeling about him. When it was time for us to leave (about 6:00 p.m., because our young daughter was getting tired), my wife decided to stay, and hang out with her brother and friends...I reluctantly took our daughter home and let my wife stay at the party (I trusted her 100%).

She got home later than I expected (around mid-night), and I voiced my feelings. We discussed things, and she told me they all simply chatted at a near-by bar, and I had nothing to worry about (remember...this was 8 years ago).

Fast-forward to last night. I found a card that she, my wife, created on the computer for Tom, in an envelope addressed to him, with a stamp. Obviously she never mailed it, but the words have me angry, concerned, and confused. I believe the card is old, as I found it in an old dusty address book belonging to my wife, but she has told me, as recently as a few weeks ago, Tom is "Just my brother's friend". The custom made card reads:

Cover:[color:"pink"]"Tom, please don't take this the wrong way, but I don't miss you as much as I thought I would...[/color]

Inside:[color:"pink"]"I miss you more".[/color]

Her writing inside:[color:"pink"]"Tom, I wasn't quite able to express to you just how much it meant to me to spend that time with you. You brought back feelings that I thought just didn't exist anymore and Wow! Well until we meet again...take care of yourself."[/color]

I need opinions (please be honest) on what others think when they read these words written by my wife, to another man...A man she swears is "Just a friend of her brother" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I think there is a lot more to the story. Your problem then lies with the ability and desire of your wife to continue lying to you.

To me, these words do not tell of an innocent experience. I would confront her with the card and point-blank tell her that you know there is more to her story.

Just my 2 cents.
Loni

Hi FL-Husband,

Have you looked at any of the articles here on the MB website? I think that the best thing that you guys could do is to find a pro-marriage, marriage counselor and start going together.

Your description of your W's attitude about her A that happened three years ago is fairly typical... she just wants to move on... If she's truly sorry for her actions and repentant, then she most likely won't object to MC. If she just wanted to clear her consience and "move on", then she will most likely balk at MC.

Oh, to answer your question, based on what you've told us... I think your W cheated with Tom.

Semper Fi,
RIF

Loni, thanks for responding. I did confront her, and I showed her the card minutes after finding it. She swears nothing happened, and they just "talked" (while at the bar as a group).

How does one "miss" someone who they just met that same day, and feel so compelled to write to them and tell them in a custom-made romantic-type card...all while being a married woman? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

She explained to me that her "feelings she didn't know still existed" were simply feelings of being young, and going / hanging out (although I have never said no to any desire of her's to go out...with or without me).

BS?

Hi, and thanks RIF.


She is, and has been willing to go to MC. We have gone a few times, and talked openly amongst ourselves about this almost every day.


I know it's hard to guess, but are you talking about cheating emotionally, or more than that? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

She may have cheated with Tom, gotten away with it, and that is what gave her the courage to do it again. You may never know the real truth. And your trust for her has went way down.

Even with MC, could you forgive her for what she has done? Could you trust and believe her again? You will also have to look at why she cheated. What in your relationship was she missing?

Based on what you said, I do believe that she cheated you... maybe not sex, but definitely more than just talking.

Good Luck,
Rummi

Hi FL-H,

I really don't know... But one thing that I learned during our three years of A's, was that I should have trusted my gut feelings. I suspected my W of an A with one guy and she denied it for 10 years... finally her guilt was so much, that she finally confessed to that A and several others that I never knew about.

Regardless if it was emotional or physical, the pain is pretty much the same. Based on what you described, the card that your W wrote to Tom was inappropriate and it definitely hints that something "more" did happen between them than just "hanging out"... (I hate that term... my 19 year old daughter uses it and I've told her that "hanging out" is just another word for "looking for trouble".)

I know that for most guys, the physical part bothers us the most... it sure did for me. I'd just assume the "worst case" (that it WAS physical) actually happened, then ask your MC for some ideas and ways for you to work through this pain.

Semper Fi,
RIF

Thank you Rummi.

I haven't been able to talk to anyone (family or friends) about this whole situation, so this talking about it / getting it out helps me a great deal.

Please...Any more thoughts from anyone?

RIF...You are very wise. Thank you.

She obviously cheated.

Tell her you know she cheated, you are willing to forgive her, but you need her to be honest. I would bring the card to counseling and let her try and squirm out of it in front of the counselor.

Good idea about bringing the card to the councelor...Thanks.

no one writes a letter like that when they were just talking,,,if it feels like a punch in the stomach it usually is,,,make it safe for her to tell the truth,,,like it was suggested,,,she needs to tell the truth,,even if it was 8 yrs ago,,,it still builds barriers in the intimacy dept. my opinion is that something more then talking happened.

It really does sound like she cheated that first time.

However, you don't know.

IN this kind of case, there is not a really good way to know FOR SURE.

If she really is innocent, all she can do is tell you the truth. I mean, what else is there?

If she is lying, how would you know FOR SURE?

IN ongoing cases, you can spy, but this was a long time ago.

I do agree with taking the card to the councilor. I think you should get your feelings out in the open. The danger I see ........ there are some therapists who tell you to get over it, not realizing the emotional damage and mistrust this has created.

It is for your wife to find ways to restore your trust, but both of these cases are in the past, and proof is hard to come by.

You need to decide what you will do - either way.

I think you would almost feel better if she told you she had cheated. Then you would believe her. If she continues to maintain she did not, then you may never believe her, and there may be nothing she can do to change that. After all, how can she PROVE she is innocent of something that was supposed to have happened 8 years ago?

Is she trying hard now to meet your needs?

Or

Is she telling you to get over it, and quit talking about it.

If she is sorry, and trying, that is an indicator.

What do you think?

SS

Thanks SS, and I agree with everything you wrote.

She is trying hard to meet my needs, and says she wants our marriage to work. We have had some very open conversations these past few months.

In regard to the card she wrote to Tom, and my feelings that she cheated on me with him (as well as the other guy she admits to having an A with), she says she "won't lie, and say she did something that never happened" just to try and save our marriage.

Indicator?

I would guess that nearly all men would read that note and think she cheated physically.

I would also guess that many women would agree. However, I believe that you would get many women that would say it could mean she connected with him emotionally that night.

It's hard for us (or men in general) to understand those kinds of things, because we are wired differently. I have been reading on MB for over 5 years now, and I have seen the differences come up over and over. It could be she is telling the truth.

Have you been good at meeting her needs. Do you know what those needs are? Do you feel you understand them?

If conversation is one of her top needs, and you were not good at meeting that need, she could have written that note based on a conversation where he paid attention to her, and encouraged her to share her feelings. Think on that for a while, and see what you can do with it.

In regard to the card she wrote to Tom, and my feelings that she cheated on me with him (as well as the other guy she admits to having an A with), she says she "won't lie, and say she did something that never happened" just to try and save our marriage.

Indicator?

It's hard for us to get some of the unspoken clues from her that you can get when the two of you talk. I don't know if it means anything or not.

Usually words are cheap, but ACTIONS are the real indicators.

If they try hard to meet your needs.
If they are humble, and try to show by their actions that they are sorry for what happened.
If they make their life an open book, and encourage you to know where they are, and what they are doing.

All these things show that they really are sorry, and that they are trying to make up for their mistake.

IF they are hiding something -
They tell you "You need to get over it, and trust me."
They have a right to privacy - you have no right to know every thing about them, and what they do.
You hear often that "you are controling, and nosy."

I would think that if it is 8 years in the past, and if she did not physically cheat, that the event is probably fuzzy in her mind, and she can't remember much detail about it. Remember also that she did not send the card, she still has it. I count her not sending it as being in your favor.

What remains is that you have to decide what you will do -

You have no control at all over her. You may wonder for years what the truth is. You can stay, or you can leave. Remember that you DO have choices.

If you choose to leave - we wish you luck, and don't hold it against you at all.

If you choose to stay, you need a recovery plan. This is a decision you need to think about carefully.

Once you make a decision to stay, you need to change directions. No longer can you afford to dwell on "did she, or didn't she?" That road is not the road to recovery.

You will have to focus on "What will it take for us to recover this marriage."

Take the time you need. Realize you do have freedom of choice. Can you go ahead with a recovery plan, without knowing for sure? Do you have the strength to do that? Do you even want to do that? Can you come to trust her again? Do you want to try?

Realize that recovery may be very difficult. Doubts may surface again, and your attitude may change for the worse. It happens often. It will probably take two to three years to get from where you are, to having the kind of marriage you want. It will take this long, even if things go well. Can you last that long?

One last thought (for now)

You also need to think about what you will do if she does confess in the future. Sometimes the WS will vow to keep it to themselves to "save their marriage." Then they get into recovery and realize it really can be good, and they start to feel guilty and spill their guts. For them, it means they finally know they want things to work. However, for the BS, it sometimes becomes the final straw, and they check out. Think on that one too - it's part of the decision making process. It's an important decision - and you need to stick to it once you make it because you already know it will be tempting to change your mind at times.

Think about it, and then come back and tell us what your feelings are.

SS

All of you have given Fl some wonderful advice. I agree with bringing the card and with telling your WW that you will forgive her but you need to know the whole story. That you can only forgive what you know about.

Good luck and I hope you find a counselor who really is pro-marriage.

Loni

My wife finally (after all these years) admitted to me yesterday that she in fact did want to have a PA with Tom that night, and that's why she stayed when I went home with our daughter. She also admitted that she did find herself very physically attracted to him, as well as feeling like they (Tom and my wife) "clicked". She still contends that it never got physical, despite the fact that she wanted it to, and flirted with him a lot that night. Thoughts?...Remember, my wife is Tom's good friend's little sister. Maybe he simply couldn't "do it" with his friend's little sister, or maybe she is still lying to me. ???

We still don't know, and you still don't know.

You will have to make a decision anyway.

Not making a decision to work on the marriage with all your heart means you have made a decision that you will not.

When do you meet with MC again?

SS

We have not been to MC in a few weeks, and we have not scheduled another appt yet. We have been doing a lot of 1-on-1 talking with each other, and that seems to help.

Do you have a good feel for what your wife thinks and feels about the conversations you are having?

Meaning -
Does she feel you are making progress, or does she feel beat up at the conclusion of each one?

If you don't know, say you don't know. Don't guess at HOW SHE FEELS unless you really know. (grin)

SS