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PM is right. Your worries about her trying to use the card could have been allieved by maybe...maybe just writing the comment as a btw or FYI type comment in the notebook such that she couldn't complain later about not knowing...it was right there in the notebook on such and such date.

"FYI, I will be closing our family joint account at ABC Bank this week since we no longer utilize this account. You can either destroy your card or frame it."

I've been thinking about the upcoming hearings and wondering whether you would consider pulling your home off the market for awhile. Simply pull the sign and find a way to swing it. Indicate the interest has been little and the broker is pressuring you to lower the price (which is likely true considering it hasn't sold). Then...in any hearing...you will be able to place one more important factor check mark squarely in your column. The court likes the children...during these turbulent situations....to have a stable consistent home. You can certainly address the affordability and practicality of such decision down the road AFTER you have won continued primary custody...but, for now...as far as anyone is concerned...you are going to find a way to stay put.

To diffuse questions about how you can actually pull this off (as no doubt you will be questioned by opposing counsel believing this to be no more than a last minute tactic)...maybe seek a side job (like waiting tables or contracting) as something to do on the weekends your wife gets visitation. Again...you don't have to actually find the work just yet...just start putting out feelers and/or applying for some everyother weekend work somewhere.

Just remember..your actions much match your statements/intentions. The bonus is...maybe you WILL stay and find a way for those kids to maintain the home to which they are accustomed. I know this seems completely unlikely to you also...but maybe staying will make reconciliation more likely as well. Your WW can "come home" so to speak which may be tougher for her to do should you live in a new house she had nothing to do with and which will certainly displease her...creating another situation requiring a stressfull move (albeit this one is during a potential recovery...not a time to be moving).

Stay if you can.

Mr. Wondering


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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I have had the same thoughts about the house. The only reason I put it on the market was becuase of my CS obligation. It has been nearly 8 months and I have burned through most of my savings and started running up credit cards to stay afloat and support the kids.

Actually, my thought was that if things go well for me at the mediation session I would then take the house off the market - because I would not be having to support two households and I could afford to keep it in the short term. Long term, I would still sell it to help get out of this mountain of debt I am incurring by paying for two households.

I have also been sort of reluctant to find a second job because then WW could try to get her hands on some of that income as well.


Happiness is not having what you want, it's wanting what you have.

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You don't actually have to get the job(s) yet...just begin the pursuit of them. Imagine opposing counsel questioning you about your decision to stay in the house as just a ploy for the court and you indicating the following:

"Well I hope to stay in the house and maintain that stability for my children...of course, a lot of this decision rests on the outcome of today's decision. If I maintain primary custody..then, I presume WW will have to get a job, which will result in me no longer having to be solely responsible for my home and hers. I will have to see the figures but I have been putting out feelers for additional work (contracting or waiting tables) for the weekends WW gets visitation in hopes that lower obligations and extra income will allow US to stay put in the home. If it's feasible at all I will do whatever I can to allow us to stay in OUR home"

Since you haven't made any money YET...it can't go into any formula the court has for determining child support/spousal support. Then later if you did such work...most of the income would hopefully be cash anyway.

Mr. Wondering


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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For the first time I am a little concerned about the pending recommendation from the GAL. I spoke with my attorney today - he says that WW is making comments of the kids not being on a schedule and not getting nutritious meals, also apparently has comments from teachers and DS's counselor.

Now I will admit that this summer we have not kept a regular nighttime schedule, I mean after all it's summer. But when DS was in school earlier this year, and even starting this week since school starts again next week, we will be getting back to the normal schedule. And yeah maybe we east out a little too much becuase it is convenient, but that is solvable as well.

He also mentioned that the GAL was not happy about using the intermediary for communications. Funny thing is, and I think CJ will back this up, WW has refused to even try to cooperate in this area so of course she can "claim" it does not work.

So even with all the crap she has pulled I still feel more nervous now than I did before. My attorney says he doesn't need any more info, but I am thinking he needs to see more of the written record of interactions that WW and I have had.

I just have to hold on to the fact that the truth will prevail, some how some way.


Happiness is not having what you want, it's wanting what you have.

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IABPS-

Contact the Harley's...NOW. Get a consultation with them. And get their 'buyoff' on your plan B.

Then, include in your presentation that the use of an intermediary is advocated by a top marriage counselor and recovery professional. Cite their credentials and support of your plan. Make it clear that you're doing this WITH their support and as a direct effort to reconcile your marriage and provide better conditions for yourself and your children.

"That'll shut her up...for a minute". <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

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Thanks Owl. You mean like get something other than what I could copy & paste from this website? More along the lines of a personal statement from the Harleys?


Happiness is not having what you want, it's wanting what you have.

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yes...if you can get a personal consultation about your situation specifically it would be a whole lot better than having to go to court or the GAL and say you are doing this based upon advice you received on the internet.

Internet advice will be viewed with skepticism whereas advice you obtained directly from the foremost infidelity marrital recovery doctors in the nation should not be.

Remember to focus the whole Plan B thing around it being better for the kids. The court doesn't care if Plan B makes marital reconciliation more likely....what's in it for the kids. This whole intermediary thing doesn't appear to be better for them...it's up to you, with the personal professional advice of the Harley's to demonstrate why that perception is mistaken.

Mr. Wondering


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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Totally agreed, MrW. That's all exactly along the same lines as what I was suggesting as well.

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Just hanging on today. I got some good coaching from CJ last night - things like getting myself untangled from WW, identifying ways that WW tries to break my plan B and how to cut those off, and how to word things such that I take responsibility for my own actions and allow WW to make her own decisions without feeling "controlled."

Picked up some things I need to get DS register for school and will take care of that tomorrow. Also still trying to work out something for DD since I don't agree with the home school option that WW has "volunteered" for. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />


Happiness is not having what you want, it's wanting what you have.

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DD should be enrolled...and soon. You don't want to do it so near the hearing it makes it look like you are/were posturing for such hearing.

Mr. W

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unfortunately, my attorneys advice has been to only get my ducks in a row but not go so far as to enroll her.

I have asked him to see if we could get a recommendation from the GAL on that prior to the mediation session - no reply yet.

Two options are the 4k program in the public school system (free) or the 4k program at our church ($200 per month) which of course because of CS will be a struggle to pay just like it was for DS earlier this year.


Happiness is not having what you want, it's wanting what you have.

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Does the "free" public school one include latchkey or is it only half-day?

Is the church one all day.

The costs may be comparable and the all day church one may be more feasable for a father with primary custody as you'll have care until 6 pmish. The half-day one might give your WW the opportunity to request picking them up everyday (with the presupisition that since she's got them anyway all afternoon...they might as well stay with her each night instead of nightly exchanges). With the public school the "after-care" would be considered separate whereas the church the "after-care" is included in the cost.

Something to consider...you can always switch her later.

Mr. W

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Hi MB-er family! Hi IAPBS! I still just love your new name (giggle)

Okay, folks, our little birdy has really taken off and is flying pretty well now, so we made a fairly major decision last night. His WW is still only sending to his PERSONAL email and will not cooperate with his requests AT ALL--yet her correspondences are basically business-like in tone and brief. Thus, after spending some of this week reviewing with IAPBS about letting her make her own decision and wording responses in a way that gives her the option to choose...we have decided to let him take over some of the reigns.

I told him I though he could handle the Notebook and the Plan B gmail on his own, but that before he does reply to anything (Notebook, TM, VM, email, etc.) he should either come here to MB and have the gang here edit for him and give suggestions, or catch me online. OUR GOAL, as his supporters, is to remind him when he doesn't need to respond AT ALL to her silliness--or if he does, to help him keep it brief while also giving her the option to make the choices she will make.

One of the issues IAPBS has been practicing working on is that he in the Analytical type...and he'll take all the options, think through them all, and then decide, "Well this one would meet the goal and be the most efficient" so he'll say, "Do this." His WW perceives that as controlling but it's really not...just his presentation could be interpreted that way. Sooooo, we are working on keeping it about him, asking "does that work for you", or saying something like, 'here's what I suggest/request."

Sooooo...that's where we stand. We are weaning from completely having a middle man (me--intermediary) to building up IAPBS so he can stay disentangled AND respond in a healthy way. So help me, will ya MB family?? Thanks!!



~~CJ

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OK, I have to post this e-mail WW sent me becuase it is so full of twisted up thinking and fogged out logic. And so many times minimizing what is happening by calling it a "situation" than what it really is.

I actually laughed out loud when I read it the first time. How is that for growth?

Quote
I will definitely respect your wishes (as I have been) for no contact on an interpersonal basis in that I won't deal with you in personal matters. I think we can agree, matters about the kids, though, are more important than either of our needs. Because we have 2 wonderful children, it does require communication and interaction on some level. I will respect your wishes, except where our kids are concerned. I won't communicate with you about anything but the kids and I won't have any personal dealings with you unless they involve the kids, and hope that will suffice for you.

I don't see how us not communicating directly or interacting with regards to the kids is going to work. When there are events important for the kids I think both of us should be there for them. You mentioned signing DS up for soccer, so what happens when DS has a soccer game or he's in a school play or something of that nature? Same for DD. I think that what's best for you and myself should be secondary to what's best for the kids. I'm saying this in response to when you used the language "best for me." Not putting the kids' needs above our own might cause the kids to suffer, and I want them to suffer as little as possible. They deserve better than that and I hope that we, as their parents, will choose to give that to them.

I am truly sorry this situation is as difficult as it is for you. These situations are never easy, but what I would love is for us to rise to the challenge of raising our children with as little "damage" or emotional scarring as possible! I am more than ready to take on this challenge, and I am more than willing to work together with you in order to give our children the best life and future possible! I also want to be as respectful of your wishes as possible, but understand the kids come first always. It is a fact--we are going to cross paths many times as our kids will be involved in certain activities and we will both want to be there.

I look forward to rising to the challenge with you!

Now after I laughed, I thought out a good MB response just to see how much reverse babble I could lay one her (Orchid would be proud I think). This is what I came up with:

Great! What day will you be home so we can begin to work on our marriage? I agree that what's best for you and myself should be secondary to what's best for the kids. I, too, would love for us to rise to the challenge of raising our children with as little "damage" or emotional scarring as possible! They deserve better than that and I hope that we, as their parents, will choose to give that to them. I am also more than ready to take on this challenge, and I am more than willing to work together with you in order to give our children the best life and future possible!

I am so happy that we finally agree on all this. I will go ahead and also make plans for us to attend the MB weekend so we can deal with your affair properly this time and make sure that we affair-proof our marriage and not have to deal with this again.


Ooops, did I quote her word for word <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Now I know I am in plan B but I would get a real kick out of sending this to her. But I also know good and well she ain't gonna get it.

Should I just drop it?


Happiness is not having what you want, it's wanting what you have.

WWPBSD?
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Silence is deafening.


Jim

BS - 32 (me)
FWW - 33
Married 8/31/03
No kids (but 3 cats)
D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA)
NC agreed to - 11/8/06
NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07
Status - In Recovery
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Also,

You aren't the plan B stud you think you are if you are dwelling on her email and debating on whether or not you respond.

Ask yourself: WWPBSD?


Jim

BS - 32 (me)
FWW - 33
Married 8/31/03
No kids (but 3 cats)
D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA)
NC agreed to - 11/8/06
NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07
Status - In Recovery
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Have you contact the Harley's to get their approval of your plan B yet?

Legitimizing that in front of the legal system should probably be your biggest priority at the moment, IMHO. Having that 'backing you up' will go a long ways in protecting you long term.

If you're in plan B...no response is your only response to her.

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My take on her email is that SHE was posturing. I'd bet you dollars to donuts a copy of that email is provided to her attorney and GAL. "See what a good effort I'm making to co-parent with IAPBS and all he thinks about is what's best for him."

If that's the case, I don't know what to advise you. Maybe a quick oneliner like "I appreciate your concern and agree that the kids must come first."


Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
*********************
In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists. Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
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I love reading or listening to WS fog babble! If it werent so serious, it would be down right hilarious! And I tthink you see that now, right?

I also have become pretty good over the years at breaking down fog babble into what it really means. Kind of like a Fog Babble Interpretor. So, here goes...

First off, this email isnt coming from her. Not entirely! It is too peppy, too "rah-rah." This is coming from her attorney. It is made to cover her butt, and to make you look like the parent that cant co-parent. So, please understand that first and foremost, she sent this because her attorney wants her on record saying this AND they want to see your response.

So, what is your response? Well, first of all...Owl is correct. You need to have MB firmly on your side, so that any judge will know that this is not some half-baked idea that you came up with...but a thoroughly studied approach to co-parenting laid out by a world-renowned marriage and family counselor. So, get that right away. Steve may be able to fine tune your response and all of this also.

But the real response is...no response. First off, remember that you are in Plan B. Which means this is for you! It is for you to heal and to get your life together outside of the destruction wrought by your WW. She WANTS you to respond. By not responding, then you wont need to get involved with her.

Secondly, your real response should be to continue moving on. To continue parenting your kids and preparing their future. Yes, you have certain obligations with your wife. But, nowhere in those obligations does it require both of you on the sidelines of the soccer field, cheering on your kids together. When my wife would show up to my sons' baseball games or my daughter's swim meets, I would have nothing to say to her. Sure, sometimes she might say something like "I'm going to go get the kids a drink." And my response? Silence.

You need to make sure you get down a fundamental part of this. And that is to understand when a response is warranted, how to make that response and what the content of that response is. Here are some examples...

WW: "I bought our daughter a new dress today."
You: <Silence>

WW: "Are you taking the kids out after the game for ice cream?"
You: <Silence> (Remember, you do not have to tell her what you are doing every minute on your time. So, if you are headed out for ice cream, she need not know and need not be included)

WW: "Our daughter jsut fell and broke her arm. I am taking her to the hospital right now."
You: "Is she okay? Which hospital are you taking her to?"

WW: "I need your signature on the school emergency form to turn in tomorrow."
You: Sign the form and hand it back...while keeping silent!

WW: "I think we should coordinate buying for the kids for Christmas this year."
You: <Silence> (This does not require a response because it isnt an emergency. There really is no need to coordinate Christmas. I just told the kids to make two lists, with each list unique. Then give one to Mom and one to Dad).

WW: "Little Johnny wants to join Karate. I think it is a good idea. What do you think?"
You: This is a sticky one. Technically, she isnt asking for permission...she is asking your opinion. Which you need not give. But, if you think this is really about getting your permission for her to enroll him, then you answer with something like "He can join." Make it short, as if you were talking to a robot. NEVER give an inflection or any emotion when talking to her. All correspondence, if it has to happen, is monotone and factual.

Okay, I could give you hundreds of examples, as I had to live them. Sometimes, due to our close proximity at events that we were both at, she would try to engage me. And how I handled it made all the difference. Two more quick, real-life examples that happened to me...

First, I had custody, as you have. It was time for teacher/parent conferences. I had sent in the folder (notebook) the information concerning when the conferences were. All week long, she wanted to talk to me about the conferences. But I refused to answer the phone. When the day came, I showed up with the kids. Ten minutes before the scheduled conference, my wife showed up and sat down outside the door near me. I just continued reading a magazine I had brought.

We went in, and the teacher began to lay out who our daughter had been doing. Of course, I had already clued in all of my kids' teachers on the current situation (so that they could keep an eye on our kids and make sure they were doing okay), so this teacher knew this might be a tense situation.

During the conference, there was an exchange of info...but never between me and my wife. Only between us and the teacher. When we reached the end of the conference, and I had nothing more to say, I thanked the teacher, shook her hand, stood up and walked out the door leaving my wife sitting in the chair watching me go out. And she was left in the awkward situation to close out things with the teacher!

Another time, it was our youngest son's birthday. It was during my time, and my wife was at work. Since our oldest son wasnt feeling well, I just made plans to go to Chuck E. Cheese that evening...and I would have a party for him later. So, we went. Of course, while we were there, the condtion of our oldest son worsened (ear infection, it turned out). He came and sat next to me while the other kids played for a little while longer. In the meantime, I called my mother to meet me at my house so she could watch the kids while I took the oldest to the hospital.

While on the phone, my wife called. Now, she didnt know our oldest was sick at that time. What she was trying to find out (as I found out later) is where we were so she could stop in and say Happy Birthday to our youngest after work. But, I didnt know that at the time and since I was planning on calling her anyway to let her know I was headed to the hospital, I went ahead and answered the phone.

She wanted to know where we were. I told her we were out, and that I was headed to the hospital soon. She said she wanted to bring a present by and wish our youngest a Happy Birthday. I told her that if she was here in the next 30 minutes, then she could see him. Otherwise, we were headed out.

She showed up about 20 minutes later. The other kids came around, talked to her for a minute and then left to play some more. Our oldest sat next to me with his head in my lap. I was ready to leave and get him to the doctor.

Since my wife is a nurse, she offered to take him back to her hospital and have him checked. Well, there was no reason for me to do this. I could handle this...and it was my responsibility at the time. I told her I would be taking him shortly, and she was welcome to attend. If she couldnt come, I told her I would let her know the outcome.

She then tried to engage me in small talk, similar to the stuff I outlined above. I just sat there, not really even listening. At times, I would just ignore her, and sort of interrupt by asking questions of my saon "Does your ear still hurt? Are you cold?" That usually was enough to stop her talking for a minute or so.

Once the time was reached that I wanted to leave, I got up and started grabbing all of our stuff. I called for our kids, and they all began getting on their jackets, etc. In the meantime, my wife just sat there, trying to engage them in conversation as I got ready and they got ready. I then told them to give their Mom a hug and let's go, and I headed for the door.

Later, after the hospital was done, I text messaged her the results, since it wasnt life threatening. I nthat way, I minimized contact and she received a monotone reply (TMs are great for that!!).

Okay, ehough of the examples. One kind of sneaky thing I did do when she was at an event that we all were at, was to make sure that if she was around or in ear shot, that she overheard me talking about something amazing we had done or planned to do. We would be walking around, and I would say to my daughter "Well, Saturday's appointment at the hair dressor should be great. Do you have any idea what you want to do with your hair? Just cut it a little, or do you want something completly different?" Blah, Blah, Blah. What this did was leave my wife looking thru an outside window into a world she no longer belonged to. Almost like she had died, and was walking amongst her family...but no longer able to join in or enjoy the family life.

And that was her choice! She always had the choice to choose that life again, just as your wife does. You need to make your family life about yo uand the family. Sure, meet the legal obligations outlined in regards to your wife. In our state, there is a mandatory co-parenting class given by a local universtiy, for people who are separated or divorcing. See if you can get into one of those classes, so that you can punch that ticket and show the court that you are very interested in co-parenting.

I am rambling now. But the watch word here is to get your water fowl coaxially aligned. You still have leagl work left to do. Loopholes to close. At the same time, you need to stay as dark as possible and begin your new life. And at the same time, leave your wife to the life she has created for herself.

She wants to act like her choices are good ones, and all the two of you need to do is join hands together and minimize the hurt. Well ,the axiom is "if things didnt end badly, they wouldnt end." Now, it is true you need to protect those kids. But it is always funny to me that the WS wants to protect the kids...when it is them that the kids need protection from.

So, keep working your plan. Solidify your legal status. You are doing well.


Standing in His Presence

FBS (me) (48)
FWW (41)
Married April 1993...
4 kids (19(B), 17(G), 14(B), 4(B))
Blessed by God more than I deserve
"If Jesus is your co-pilot...you need to change seats!"

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Mortarman is to IABPS what Mimi is to Silentlucidity! He rocks!

IABPS, (love the new name)
Don't waste too much time laboring over what is in that email. I wouldn't respond if it were me, if I were in Plan B. I WOULD do that waterfowl alignment, by getting the Harley's backing and, if there is one offered, at least sign up for a coparenting class.

You are doing well; keep listening to these warriors, you are getting some choice advice.


Me-BS-38
Married 1997; son, 8yo
Divorced April 2009
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