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I'll try and answer a batch of questions here in one post:

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Also, what are the states she is planning on moving to. Almost all states have better divorce laws than CA.
There is no longer any other state in the mix. Lost Wages, NV, was Job Possibility No. 2 but they just called this afternoon to let her know she didn't get the job (she wasn't interested after the tryout anyway). Job Possibility No. 1 is the Lost Wages of CA. It's still technically in CA, but just barely (on the state line) and is only about 2 hours away from location of OM (we currently live 45 minutes away from OM's city). They just now offered her the job and gave her until Monday night to accept.

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I still think your best bet is to follow WW to the new job and plan A because the A is pretty much dead especially if WW moves across the country from OM. You can then plan B her from your new location if things don't improve. There isn't much to gain from filing now except maybe only $10,000 and that will probably hurt your chances at reconciliation.
There's a lot I will do to save this marriage, but I really don't think I could follow her from either a financial or emotional standpoint. I don't want to live there, especially on my own.

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If she's dying to move and you are OK with moving yourself...then move with her. No better way to Plan A than to participate TOGETHER in the fantasy and excitement of a fresh start in a new city. All the packing and preparations will be done TOGETHER.

She does not want me to go with her, period.

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Hopefully, you WILL NOT be moving anywhere near enabling BFF.
BFF lives 9 hours away. The move to Job Location #1 would change little to nothing since they communicate via phone, e-mail and text message.


BH (Me): 33, XWW: 33
Married 1999, No kids
EA: 11/04?-10/07, PA: 05/07
D-Day: 06/07
Divorced: 04/09
Affair is over for OP but not for WS
WW wants to move away w/o me
WW moved away w/o me
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Posts: 604
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I wonder what's up with WW's father wanting her away from you so much.

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I don't think that FIL wants him away from WW, but rather WW is "projecting." If anything, FIL just wants WW to be "happy." Or, maybe he wants WW to stop leading her BS on and just end it if she is planning on leaving. Most of the family seemed to be very understanding of BHHFS and disappointed in WW and BFF.

Yeah, I'm a little confused about this myself, but I've heard nothing from FIL, SMIL, SIL1 or SIL2 since they talked to WW (repeatedly). I have to assume that she spun the same story about how awful I'm treating her and I just can't get over this one mistake she made when the real problem is that I don't listen and have never treated her right. And, let's face it, who are they more likely to believe/care about?

So Exposure seems to have gained me nothing except to ramp up her efforts to leave and get the help and support of BFF and Family. Here's the latest exchange:

[color:"purple"]BFF:
I hope that the week got a little better. I'm excited that you have an interview at Job Location No. 4, but sorry you have to wait almost another week. How long will Job No. 1 wait for your decision? I am amazed at how strong you are during all of this pressure. You're incredible and doing great. I wish you were out of the house, too, but I trust your instincts and know that you wouldn't stay if you didn't feel safe. Do you even talk to BHHFSGuy anymore?

I would LOVE to come down and visit. H and I both think it's a great idea and needed, so I will be glad to book the flight soon.

I think I would be able to stay for 3 or 4 days...I don't expect you to be free from work, so I can entertain myself one of those days. Please don't worry about me. I really want to see you and help you out as much as possible. I don't mind going down just to help you move...trust me.

Good luck with everything. I would urge you to take the Job No. 1(or just quit and take some much needed time off), but it sounds like Job No. 4 is highly promising. Hang in there and call me if you need ANYTHING![/color]

[color:"orange"]WW:
Thanks once again for the words of support and encouragement. I certainly need them, and to know I'm not completely crazy and wrong about everything. And to know I'm not going to be alone once I start over.[/color]

Is there no end to their insanity?! I went out last night and got WW an ice cream sundae and gave her a foot rub. Today I took her out to lunch. This Saturday I'll be driving her to the airport at 6 a.m. Yet BFF is asking if WW feels safe in the house or even talks to me anymore. It's like I'm living in an episode of The Twilight Zone.


BH (Me): 33, XWW: 33
Married 1999, No kids
EA: 11/04?-10/07, PA: 05/07
D-Day: 06/07
Divorced: 04/09
Affair is over for OP but not for WS
WW wants to move away w/o me
WW moved away w/o me
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She's mitigating her WRONGNESS.

Just Plan A for now and see what happens. If she moves away you'll just go to Plan B. It would be the appropriate time for it anyway. Then...her in a new city seemingly "starting over" will really, really weigh on her. Her friends won't replace you and she will likely find herself missing you. She will be pridefull at first and miss you from afar. If you've got a myspace or similiar account, leave it up for 2 weeks of Plan B then set it to private. You can bet she'll be trying to get a fix of you somehow and I've seen other WW's in Plan B look at pictures and surf the web for there no dark BH for hours.

Hopefully it will work. Either way YOU will make it.

Mr. Wondering


FBH(me)-51 FWW-49 (MrsWondering)
DD19 DS 22 Dday-2005-Recovered

"agree to disagree" = Used when one wants to reject the objective reality of the situation and hopefully replace it with their own.
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I don't know about you, but the day I went to plan B, I would plan FU BFF.


Jim

BS - 32 (me)
FWW - 33
Married 8/31/03
No kids (but 3 cats)
D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA)
NC agreed to - 11/8/06
NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07
Status - In Recovery
Jim's Story
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Oh, and if she does file, you get MORE than half of EVERYTHING due to her marital misconduct including her paying for your attorney, half her 401k, and spousal support. The consequences of divorcing you might make her think twice about what she is about to do. And again, let you lawyer handle that, you do not talk to her at all about D.

Last edited by jmwc95; 09/14/07 07:53 AM.

Jim

BS - 32 (me)
FWW - 33
Married 8/31/03
No kids (but 3 cats)
D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA)
NC agreed to - 11/8/06
NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07
Status - In Recovery
Jim's Story
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Posts: 604
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WW does not have a MySpace account, she has access to mine, though. On Tuesday evening of last week, she visited the profile of her high school ex-boyfriend who she hasn't seen or talked to since before I met her in high school. He still lives in her hometown, has two kids from a previous marriage that lasted about eight years, and is engaged to be married again. BFF had discussed him with WW in a few of their older e-mails.

Odder still is that she then did a search for 'kessel' and ended up at a profile of a 27-year-old male located in Job Location #1.

She deleted both of these visits from the browser history. I find this odd and don't know what to think of it (or if it means anything worth thinking about) and thought I'd note it here before it slipped my mind. Anybody else find this type of thing familiar?


BH (Me): 33, XWW: 33
Married 1999, No kids
EA: 11/04?-10/07, PA: 05/07
D-Day: 06/07
Divorced: 04/09
Affair is over for OP but not for WS
WW wants to move away w/o me
WW moved away w/o me
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 4,222
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It seems to me like she is giving up on OM#1 and is looking for another OM to fill the void. Change your myspace account password, so she can't start searching out old loves. She's in withdrawal from OM, so do your very best to make love bank deposits, so you can be that one that she attaches herself to next.


Jim

BS - 32 (me)
FWW - 33
Married 8/31/03
No kids (but 3 cats)
D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA)
NC agreed to - 11/8/06
NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07
Status - In Recovery
Jim's Story
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How have you been doing in plan A? Have you scheduled any fun things. What are you doing together with your WW? What would she enjoy? Think about it, and try and schedule fun things to do.
I realize I haven't posted much about what my Plan A efforts include. So here's a recap of the things I've done in the last three months:

  • Scheduled a massage for her at day spa (3X)
  • Attended national baseball games in 'the big city' (2X)
  • Went to larger nearby city nightclub and saw nationally-recognized comedian
  • Attended local baseball games (2X)
  • Attended museum in larger nearby city
  • Took her out to lunch 1-2X per week, dinner 3X per week
  • Brought her ice cream/sundaes in the evening 2-3X per week
  • Given her footrubs nightly
  • Cleaned the home & backyard frequently (vacuum, sinks, shower/tub, toilets, etc.)
  • Driven her to everything (other than work) including job interviews, airports, other cities
  • Taken her to malls and engaged in shopping w/her
  • Taken her to numerous movies in multiple cities
  • Watched favorite television shows (not much in summer)
  • Called her at work 1X per day to ask how things are going
  • Sent flower arrangement to work
  • Brought her breakfast in bed (w/flowers) on weekend when back was hurting

The fun weekend activities did kind of dry up recently for a couple of reasons. She was extremely negative on the weekend of the museum trip and nice seafood dinner on the river (found out she'd called OM the night prior). The next weekend I brought up some suggestions of things to do and she shot them down with every excuse imaginable. We did see a movie, but her back was hurting her. The movie selection has gotten dismal over the last few weeks. The next weekend was the trip to Job Location #1, where I won money playing poker and took her to a fancy restaurant that night. The next weekend (post-Exposure) her back was still hurting her so she wanted to just lay on the couch for the whole weekend and watch marathons of 'America's Next Top Model.' And this weekend she's with her family on a retreat in OR. I haven't heard a single word from her while she's been gone. I sent one text message Saturday and one Sunday (bought concert tickets) and got no response. She didn't even want to hug me when I dropped her off at the airport. I would guess she hasn't told her family about any of the above things we've done or maybe that I'm just trying to 'trick her,' which is what she tells me I'm doing.

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If she doesn't join you, so what, go out and have fun anyway. If she doesn't want to spend money, you make the sacrifice to go have fun (or your WW is on the hook for your debt anyway).

One of my theatre friends invited me to a party and she didn't want to come along but said I should go. I did, and actually had a good time, which was surprising since I'm usually not too comfortable at parties, especially when I don't know a lot of the people.

She's been good about the money and has reimbursed me (eventually) for tickets and things. Otherwise I'd be broke after every weekend. A couple of weekends ago, I recommended we go and stay at a nearby spa/retreat for one night and she didn't want to, saying it would be 'a waste of money.' That's obviously something I'm not going to do on my own, don't have the money to do so and doubt I'd get reimbursed from her.

She bought tickets for a concert on Oct. 5, since (as she told BFF) she knows she is 'stuck' here until mid-Oct. I just bought tickets for a different concert on Oct. 10 that I would really like to see. Dunno if she'll reiumburse me for her ticket yet. The 10th seems like a long ways away.

Last edited by BHHFSGuy; 09/18/07 05:31 PM.
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I want to commend you on a good plan A. I think your WW thinks that you will be "friends" even after she leaves you. BFF has only reinforced that fantasy. I believe that once you go to plan B and you explain that she is "either your wife or nothing to you," she will crash hard. The question is how she reacts to that. Some WS come running back, and some are so stubborn and unwilling to admit their own failings, they blame everything on you. Some will blame you for a while until they finally crash. You won't know until you go to plan B. I would suggest that you talk with her family and let them know what your intentions are when you go to plan B (maybe send them a copy of the plan B letter). Then you just hope and pray. If she doesn't come back to the marriage, she never would have. You are risking anything by going to plan B. However, based on your plan A effort, I really think that plan B will have a profound impact on her.

Last edited by jmwc95; 09/17/07 03:48 PM.

Jim

BS - 32 (me)
FWW - 33
Married 8/31/03
No kids (but 3 cats)
D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA)
NC agreed to - 11/8/06
NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07
Status - In Recovery
Jim's Story
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 604
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I hadn't heard from WW at all since dropping her off at the airport on Saturday morning. I sent her a text message on Saturday evening saying to just call when she had a chance and one on Sunday morning to let her know I'd bought the concert tickets, but received no reply to either. Checking the cell records, she hadn't called or texted anyone while she was on the family retreat in OR.

I arrived at the airport about five minutes before her flight was scheduled to arrive, but it had gotten in early and she was already there and had just picked up her checked luggage. She resisted a hug from me and when I offered to carry her bag, she just said 'you don't need to do that.' That was soon to become the mantra of the evening.

She was very detached for the whole walk back to the car and hour-long ride back home. At first she just responded with single words to any question I asked. 'Did you have a nice time?' 'Yes' 'Did you celebrate SMIL's birthday?' 'Yes'

I asked if she had eaten dinner ('No') and if she was hungry ('Yes') but when she found out that I had eaten dinner, it was 'I guess I should've then,' and she didn't want me to get her dinner at that point. I was ready to take her to a favorite place that's on the way back, but she said 'I'm not hungry anymore. I'll just get something at home.' As if those two sentences aren't contradictory.

She noticed that I had washed the car and said 'You didn't have to do that.' Let me note that there was never an 'Awww,' preceding this sentence. I also told her I had filled the car up with gas before driving over because I wasn't confident there was enough for the round-trip. She complained that 'you didn't have to do that, there was plenty of gas.' Wow, now complaining about me buying gas for 'her' car.

She grilled me about whether or not I had made any calls while she was gone that she should know about. Whether or not I was going to blindside her again like the last time she went away for a few days.

I asked if she'd received my text messages and she said she had, but that she had poor reception there and also just didn't have time. She said she'd pay for her half of the concert tickets (They weren't cheap!).

She did not discuss if/what she had decided regarding the Job Offer that had a Tuesday morning due date.

She did say 'thanks' one time once we got back home, but was pretty much detached and guarded the rest of the evening.

I discovered she sent the following text message to BFF while she was waiting for her layover flight in the same city where BFF and H live:

[color:"green"]Howdy from AIRPORT! Sorry the layover was too short for a visit. The trip was good and much needed. Got lots of support for the next step. Miss you tons.[/color]

This morning before I left for work, I told her to have a good day and she replied with 'YOU have a good day.' I told her to let me know how her scheduled call goes this morning. ('Oh, right')

The phone call did take place at the scheduled time and lasted for 21 minutes. She hasn't contacted me.


BH (Me): 33, XWW: 33
Married 1999, No kids
EA: 11/04?-10/07, PA: 05/07
D-Day: 06/07
Divorced: 04/09
Affair is over for OP but not for WS
WW wants to move away w/o me
WW moved away w/o me
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 604
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WW called from work as usual to let me know she was coming back home for the day. I offered to pick up take-out dinners from her favorite place and she immediately agreed. We had a pleasant dinner together and watched some TV (season finale of BB8). Afterwards I asked how her workday went. She talked about it a bit, not mentioning the call to Job Location #1. So then I asked if she'd talked to the guy since today was the deadline. She said she did. Period. 'And?' She admitted that she accepted the job and the guy was surprised. I asked if he was excited and she said yes. I asked if she was excited and she said 'y'know, it's complicated.' She told him the earliest she could start was the week of Oct. 23. I asked if she would be giving her current workplace only two weeks' notice or more and she said she wasn't sure. She also mentioned something about figuring out when she'd give her notice to our landlord and that maybe I'd want to move out since I probably couldn't afford the place on my own and it was too big anyway. I asked if she'd be taking the company condo they offered and she said she probably would since it accepts pets and 'you probably don't want to take care of' our cat. Considering that I bought her that cat years ago because she complained about how lonely she was, I'm thinking, no, I don't want to take care of him. I'm sure that'll make me look like a horrible person to BFF and WW's family, but what won't.

I didn't respond much to anything she said, but she didn't really ask me any questions. After a bathroom break, I asked if she'd like some ice cream tonight, which she turned down. I offered to open the champagne that's been chilling in the fridge for a few months now (a sad reminder of happy days to me) so she could celebrate her accomplishment. Unsurprisingly, she turned that down. I reminded her that only a few months ago she was down and depressed because 'no one will call me back' and 'I'm trapped here and will never find a new job' so she should feel pretty good right now about securing a new job within just a few months. 'Shrug'


BH (Me): 33, XWW: 33
Married 1999, No kids
EA: 11/04?-10/07, PA: 05/07
D-Day: 06/07
Divorced: 04/09
Affair is over for OP but not for WS
WW wants to move away w/o me
WW moved away w/o me
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Posts: 1,602
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BHHFSGuy,

I've been following your story and I am sad for you. It certainly sounds like you tried your hardest and did everything you could. Your WW is acting immature and selfish. I wonder how long it will take before she regrets all she is doing and has done. My guess is about the time you find someone who will appreciate you.

It's fortunate there aren't any children involoved to complicate things more. You certainly deserve better than what she is doing to you.

LC





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After our brief conversation about WW taking the job and planning to move away in October, WW didn't say much else. So I went in to the adjoining room to work on the computer. Occasionally she would ask me 'Still working?' 'Yep'

Finally, at quarter-til-midnight, after she'd fallen asleep on the couch watching TV, I said I was going to bed. 'Oh, you don't want to discuss things?' she asked. WTF? You're going to wait until 11:45 and I'm going to bed to ask if I want to discuss things? (I didn't say it like that). 'Well, you were working and I didn't want to interrupt.' Um, I was working because you stopped talking and seemed to have nothing else to say. 'Well, if you're tired and want to go to bed, go ahead.' No, I want to talk to you. 'You don't seem to be dealing with the fact that I'm taking this job and what that means.' Um, that you're leaving and don't want me to come with you. That's not news to me, I've known it for four months. 'You keep saying that you don't want to put any effort into separating, but you'll need to do some things now. Like separate the phones and the car insurance. And you'll need to figure out whether or not you're going to move out, since you can't afford to live here on your own.' Yeah, I will figure that out. 'Do you plan on staying or moving out?' I'll deal with it when I need to. Why do you care? 'Well, I still care about you.'

She said she was confused because I acted enthusiastic about her getting a new job even though that meant she would be moving away without me. I explained that I support her career decisions and always have and this was no different. But what I didn't support was anything that would break up the marriage. 'Well, my parents/family all support my decision and want me to leave you as soon as possible.' Why is that? 'Because you're emotionally abusing me and they're concerned that it'll turn to physical abuse.' I asked how I have been emotionally abusing her and she said it's because of my browbeating her into admitting she had an affair, my forcing her to read books and that I've been trying to humiliate her by calling people like her family. I noted that in the last 2+ months I haven't even brought up the A a single time. 'Well, it's just the way you make me feel.' She also complained about how my spying on her is wrong, makes her and BFF feel paranoid, and that her family agrees that I should stop the spying because of how inconsiderate it is. That I'm controlling and I've been trying to cut her off from everyone. I noted that I hadn't tried to cut her off from anyone other than OM and that she has been communicating freely with everyone (including OM). Also, if I wanted to cut her off from her family, why would I call them and ask them to call her? And why would I encourage her to visit them? 'Then why did you call them? I don't understand.'

As regards the spying, she kept reiterating how her e-mail account is not secret, it's private, and everyone has the right to privacy and I need to respect that. I brought up the whole privacy vs. secrecy argument but she didn't buy it. 'Oh, so I shouldn't be able to talk with anyone about my life?' She tried to defend BFF by saying that I had exaggerated her role to her family and BFF was just an innocent bystander. This is bogus, because I have the e-mails to prove it, so I finally went there and asked Really? BFF didn't recommend that you send me away some evening and then invite OM over and get him drunk and see what happens? 'I don't know what you're talking about or where you got that from.' Really? So you'd put your hand on a Bible and swear that she didn't write that? 'Well, I don't remember her writing that. And if she wrote that, I think I would remember it. But I don't remember that.' BTW, that was the last thing Sue said in SAA that my WW hadn't yet said. I noted how her story had just changed from 'she didn't write that' to 'I don't remember her writing that' but she insisted her story hadn't changed at all and that I was just twisting her words around and throwing them back in her face. And that was why she couldn't be honest with me is because I was just going to throw her own words back in her face.

She demanded to know if I had access to her e-mail account and I refused to answer (this would've been hard for me three months ago). I told her that she hadn't been honest with me and I knew it because of her e-mails. 'What?' That her original explanation of 'I didn't think anything could happen' and 'It was just an innocent friendship' were contradicted by e-mails in which she looked forward to my being away as an opportunity to invite him over alone. He had expressed reticence about 'What would BHHFSGuy think about this?' and she would tell him to ignore me because she could handle me, she's in charge of us and can do whatever she wants. 'Oh, so you're just the innocent victim in all this, huh?' She then started rehashing how it was all my fault and if only I had paid more attention this wouldn't have happened. See, the days where she went out to lunch with him secretly, I never asked her 'What did you do today?' and, according to her, if I had asked her, she would've told me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> That her Dad agreed with her that 'this incident' was simply a symptom of an unhappy marriage. I asked how involved her Dad was with her life and our marriage to know that (he never contacts her and didn't even send a birthday card on her 30th birthday). 'Oh, so is he an enemy of the marriage, too?' I didn't go there, but let's be honest. If he's encouraging his daughter to leave the marriage, he can't be a friend of the marriage, can he? Sorry, that's too logical, I guess. I brought up the fact that she had written to BFF within this year that 'Everything is fine between BHHFSGuy and me. Nothing could break us up except for another guy...and that's not going to happen.' Of course, she doesn't remember writing that. 'I think I would remember if I wrote that.'

I noted that I had been working hard to meet her ENs and fix all the things she has complained were the true source of her undiscovered-until-now unhappiness. 'Why do you even want to work on this? Why do you still want to be with me?' I told her that I had made a commitment to love and cherish her for better or worse and that this was the for worse period. 'So you're just doing this because of some legal contract?' I said I knew we could be happy together because we were once before and that so many other couples have successfully recovered from infidelity.

She continued to reiterate that OM had 'nothing to do' with any of this and 'it's not about him.' So why not stop contacting him, then? 'I told you. Because I want to end things on my own terms.' And what are those terms? 'For him to answer my questions. You wouldn't give me a chance to do that, you had to go and contact OMGF and ruin it all' And, like I asked you four months ago, what if he doesn't answer your questions? 'I don't know' Good plan, then. I told her she needs to figure out what's more important to her, getting answers from him or being married to me. 'I just want to go and be by myself so I can figure things out' Oh, so being by yourself means you wouldn't contact OM, right? 'No, I'll contact him, I'll contact you, I'll contact whoever I want. It's my life.' She asked me if I would just hate her forever if she left and I told her that if she left it would be her choice, not mine, and that I wouldn't be there for her anymore. I didn't want to tip my hand to Plan B, but also didn't want to imply that I would still be hanging on/around.

She reiterated that the IC had suggested we separate and I asked her why she hadn't pursued going to the IC to talk about that. She insisted I had agreed to call him and make arrangements and I told her I couldn't have agreed to that, because I don't know her work schedule. 'Oh. OK.' I asked if she cared so much about seeing the IC again why she hadn't asked me about it or called him herself. 'I've been too busy with all the job interviews and work. I guess I can find time to call him, although it'll probably take me, like, five calls to schedule something.' Oh, God, not five calls. 'See, that's what I'm talking about, you just throw everything I say back in my face.' I told her that if someone said she could fix her marriage with just five phone calls, would she respond the same way, i.e. Five phone calls?! Sheesh!

She insisted that she has, in fact, been 'trying really hard' to work on the marriage. I asked her what actions she had taken in that regard. 'I haven't left.' Well, if just showing up is working really hard on the marriage, then I guess I've been working really hard on it for years.

She asked why I haven't 'had it out' with BFF since I seem to know so much and I explained that BFF isn't interested in being honest with me or confronting the situation. She asked why I've been fake nice with BFF and pretending to want her to come visit. I told her that I've invited BFF to help the marriage by suggesting fun things we can do together but BFF won't respond to those e-mails. I'm perfectly willing to have BFF visit if we do fun things together. WW said BFF 'still wants to be friends with you, but I know you have issues.' Now WW says BFF might not come visit after all...

It was a pretty long discussion and I know I stumbled a few times because I was either sarcastic, tried to use reason or raised my voice reflexively. But I felt like it was time to put my foot down about how I know that she has manipulated me and has not/is not being honest and I will simply not accept it. That she has a clear choice to make and cannot have the best of both worlds. That I will not 'be there for her' after she leaves. I also tried to communicate the key messages about how I'm working to protect/preserve/build the marriage and fight against things that destroy the marriage. I gave up my key information source, as she has now changed the password on her e-mail account, but I think I know enough now that it doesn't truly matter. I'm trying to get ready for Plan B, but have to wait until next week for a chance to meet with my lawyer and explore my legal options/financial steps.


BH (Me): 33, XWW: 33
Married 1999, No kids
EA: 11/04?-10/07, PA: 05/07
D-Day: 06/07
Divorced: 04/09
Affair is over for OP but not for WS
WW wants to move away w/o me
WW moved away w/o me
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Looks like you're in a pretty difficult situation.

Reasoning will not work with an active WS. BTDT. I suggest avoiding it. Don't ask them for answers to questions that you can find out by other means, because it's quite likely that you're just being baited into an argument (the comment from her about her family "supporting her decision" comes to mind immediately) and their answers will be fogbabble anway. Remember, this is the time that you're supposed to be in Plan A...

Arguing with them about their lies is probably not going to work either. When you know she's being untruthful with you, let her know that you prefer to stop talking because you have difficulty believing her, and withdraw as graciously as possible from the conversation - that's better than remaining and being exposed to her lies.


ManInMotion
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Don't argue with her anymore. You've made your point. The only thing that I will add is that you still love her, the door is still open (for now), and you believe that things will eventually work out and she will be worth the struggle, but if not, you know you will be just fine. Then go to plan B and let her see how many ENs she was relying on you for.

BTW, that stuff about her family pushing for it is a bunch of BS she is using to justify her actions. She knows that you will never confront her family about what she accused them of saying. Either that or she has completely lied to them about you as well and they've fallen for it.


Jim

BS - 32 (me)
FWW - 33
Married 8/31/03
No kids (but 3 cats)
D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA)
NC agreed to - 11/8/06
NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07
Status - In Recovery
Jim's Story
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Come to think of it, I would move out and go to plan B before she leaves; that way you don't have to help her move and you can take what you want before she has the movers pack it all up and send it to her new locations. I think you've done enough plan A and you need to get to plan B before she makes anymore love bank withdrawals.


Jim

BS - 32 (me)
FWW - 33
Married 8/31/03
No kids (but 3 cats)
D-Days - 8/25/06 (EA), 11/3/06 (PA)
NC agreed to - 11/8/06
NC broken - 11/28/06, 12/16/06, 1/18/07, 1/26/07, 1/27/07
Status - In Recovery
Jim's Story
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BHHFS,

I hate to say that this is as predictable as it is....but after reading SAA, you already know that. I think you need to learn some "reverse babble". One of our most beloved and experienced posters, Orchid, created this language to talk to her fogged WH....but many of us have employed it. Rather than getting defensive, explaining etc....it's great to have another way to reply.

So here's a link: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=019927

Your wayward wife is deep in that mindset....so, like Sue, it may take her a while to wake up....if ever. She may never come back....but I think that Plan A and B are the best way of keeping your dignity and addressing the problems that created vulnerability.

She's playing games....very ugly. She offers no information, so when you withdraw she accuses you of not being interested. It's all about rationalization....don't fall for it. It's all babble....and when you learn to babble-back....you'll get to see her confusion.

I agree that snooping has yielded all you need to know at this point. Her acusations about emotional abuse are laughable. You're doing fine....and remember Plan B is for YOU...not her. Use that peaceful time of detachment to remove yourself from her chaos, manipulation and pain. No matter what happens....you'll benefit.

Secure your finances and prepare to go dark. I'm going to find Mortarman's "art of war thread"....you'll like it.

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One of the best pieces of advice I got was "Don't run interference for his conscience." You aren't running interference for her conscience. You are sticking to facts. If she could gt you to blow up at her, then she could take an image of that scene and store it as a memory so that she could justify the affair and divorce. She may want to provoke you because you don't seem to have given her that image yet.

Cherishing

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Quote
BTW, that stuff about her family pushing for it is a bunch of BS she is using to justify her actions. She knows that you will never confront her family about what she accused them of saying. Either that or she has completely lied to them about you as well and they've fallen for it.
I'm pretty certain it's the latter. I've been with her for more than a decade and it took me a few months to figure out she was manipulating me. Since they have had little regular contact with her (FIL didn't even send a card on her 30th birthday) I'm sure they simply have no idea that she could possibly be misleading them.

She's a very smart, level-headed person (normally... I think) so she spins a very convincing story that any rational person could be taken in by. It helps that FIL was pre-disposed to the idea that there must have been problems in the marriage to cause her to have an affair. And he's so stubborn that he won't back down from a position EVER. He once tried to convince me that a Yield sign had four sides. When I produced evidence days later that it did NOT, he then said 'I never said it had four sides. I said it had three.' WW has told me that he has never ONCE said 'I'm sorry' or 'I was wrong.'

And since he requested I tell her I exposed, rather than anyone else confronting her first, it gave her plenty of time to think about what she could say to them. Here's my guess based on what she's said to me and BFF:

'I've been trying really hard to deal with this, but it's just been so hard for me. And I feel like BHHFSGuy gets upset whenever I say anything, so I can't talk to him. He asked me to read all these books and shoved all this stuff in my face, but it doesn't have anything to do with me because those are all about 'affairs' and I didn't have an affair. I don't even know how my ex-co-worker feels about me, so how can it be? I haven't even seen him since he left my workplace. This one-time occurrence obviously happened because I've been so unhappy in the marriage for years because he doesn't listen to me and he only loves me because I'm beautiful and he likes my money and he's lazy and he doesn't pay any attention to me and leaves me alone all the time. So I've been feeling miserable and now I feel even worse because he makes me feel guilty and humiliated and he enjoys punishing me and wants to hold this over me forever. I just can't stay with someone that can't get over this. And after I found out he was spying on me, I don't think I can ever trust him again. I'm paranoid to contact anyone because he wants to control me and cut me off from all my friends.'

Considering that none of her family members has contacted me since she spoke to each of them after Exposure, I have to assume they do, in fact, support her decision to leave me, at least FIL. And no one in the family will ago against him. I had hope that SMIL, who has actually dealt with infidelity could bring some insight, but since she's not the biological mother, there's obviously a deference to FIL.


BH (Me): 33, XWW: 33
Married 1999, No kids
EA: 11/04?-10/07, PA: 05/07
D-Day: 06/07
Divorced: 04/09
Affair is over for OP but not for WS
WW wants to move away w/o me
WW moved away w/o me
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,554
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Posts: 4,554
Quote
Considering that none of her family members has contacted me since she spoke to each of them after Exposure, I have to assume they do, in fact, support her decision to leave me, at least FIL.

Don't assume anything. Make a followup call, or send them a letter that mentions the infidelity, but concentrates on your willingness to recover your M.


ManInMotion
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