I can't even believe I am here. This God forsaken computer is a huge part of what got us to this point and I hope it will help me live through the aftermath.

15 months ago I discovered that my husband was involved in a long distance EA with a woman I think he met on a business trip. I can find no information otherwise. I confronted him immediately and ferociously and after a time we decided to try to work things out. I kept the secret.

I thought he had ended all contact with her. We separated about a year ago in the midst of apparently insane satetments like he loves me but is not in love with me, we married for the wrong reasons, I deserve better than him....

We were separated for 4 months and I embarked on Plan A without ever having found this site. I guess God works it out for us. WE reconciled and after a time I began to feel the same vibes again and after trying to convince myself I was just not trying hard enough, I became a world class snoop again.

He has been involved with at least 15 women online, most simultaneously, had a dating website on Match.com identifying himself in our VERY small rural area. Despite his assurances he went to see the OW during our separation. He has been physically unfaithful with at least one that I know of, but at this point, he has given away so much of himself that giving his body really is just not that much worse.

He has lied so long, I am not sure he knows when he is doing it anymore. He is still having contact with at least 1 of them. I track cell phone usage. He lies so much that I occasionally think I am the one who is crazy. I still have told almost no one.

This is not my husband. I still love this man like I did many years ago. I hate this, I hate being here. I am still in so much pain it hurts to breathe.

I just found this site and I have to do something. I have grown into the best me I can. God has stretched me further than I thought I could grow.

I thought I was protecting our children but remaining silent, but now I am not so sure. I really don't know what to do.

I am sorely tempted to contact OW. I am not sure to what purpose as I will not curse at her and she knows he is married, so I don't imagine my calm directive to get the **** away from my husband is likely to do much good.

Anything offered would go a long way to helping me breathe for another day. I have not gotten SAA yet, but I have been all over the MB site.

ME 37
WH 36
3 children 5,9,13
M 15 years
D day - 7/12/2006

Welcome. Well, if you have done some reading here, you know that the starting point is Plan A. That also includes exposing the affair. You need to expose the affair to your family, his family, the other woman's family (if you can find them), and your friends. Often affairs end when the light of exposure is shined on them. That is IF he is still in contact with the other woman.

The computer part is going to be a problem too. It sounds like he is getting some of his needs met through on line fantasies, although if he has met anyone, it has moved beyond fantasy.

He could also be a sex addict - that is usually from childhood problems and has little to do with sex.

Have you let him know that you know of all his activities?

Yes, I confronted him with everything I knew. The problem is that it keeps going on. Just when I think I have found it all and have confronted him the last time, there is something else!

This is absolute insanity. I feel like a creep sneaking around on his computer and cell phone. This is not who I am and I hate it.

The last confrontation was a week ago when I discovered the OW that has bee the longest running was still in the picture. She lives thousands of miles away and we areliving in the same home so I am reasonably sure that he has only been speaking/texting her.

There has also been contact with the woman with whom he was physically unfaithful. I discovered an email 2nite discussing the end of their relationship that he just sent Friday. It was supposed to have ended a month ago. I dodn't know about MB, so I did not handle it with the NC letter. Like a FOOL, I left it up to him with the idea that my husband is still in there and the alien that has taken him over wasn't in control.

Every time I confront him, I think this is it and he will leave. However, he does not and keeps shocking me that he holds on. AS hurt and angry as i am, I am also broken hearted for him. He is destroying himself. This is the most self destructive thing I have ever witnessed.

However, I have just gone through his voicemail while he is asleep and the only message from OW was a vbery tearful one wondering why he isnot calling. His email indicates that he is through with the OOW. I can't believe I am referring to the other other woman. I am encouraged that we may be rounding a bend, but I have thought so before, so I am trying to stay balanced.

I really have contemplated sending out a batch email to all of them and saying, girls, you are not unique. There are apparently women like you growing on trees and he is leading you all on.

I can't beleive that my good, kind godly husband has just jumped off the deep end.

Any advice? Should I still expose given how far into this we are?

The internet has brought us a lot of good things, and also a lot of problems. It sounds like your husband is getting some emotional needs met through his on line activities. Be sure to check out the emotional needs questionnaire here and try to start meeting his top needs. You can do it much better than anyone online.

Was there anything else happening in his life when all of this started up?

He did have some career setbacks. I know how important career issues can be, especially to a man. He is clearly still in the fog. I have tried very hard to meet his emotional needs over the last year. Mostly he won't let me. I have paid particular attention to his respect needs, tried to remain calm and reasonable and have offered my forgiveness. I keep thinking this is his way out and he just can't bring himself to leave so he will hurt me enough that I will make him go. However, every time we get to a crisis point and I set a boundary I have to have, he says he wants to work it out and does not go. What is it with this crazy making behavior?

Unfortunately, he agrees to the boundary and then I find the way he has violated it relatively soon after. He has never completely terminated contact. I am able to track his text messages and he was in contact with the OW from the physical affair this morning. I checked his email and he had a friendly email from her 2 days ago. I feel I am on the threshold of Plan B.

I am fairly certain he is lying to me about working late tomorrow. I am having him followed and will require that he leave our home if indeed he is lying. He has agreed to disconnecting his cell phone and changing to a new number to prevent contact. He maintains that he does not want contact with either of them while he is still doing so. I occasionally feel as if i am the one who is crazy.

Has anyone else had the distinct feeling that their WS no longer had the ability to differentiate truth from lies? I am really concerned he is no longer fully aware of when he is lying.

csong70
married 15 years
3 kids 5,9,13
D-day 7/16/06
More d-days too many to count

He is continuing to do it, because he is continuing to get away with it. Have you seen an attorney to secure your family finances?

I truly despise divorce. I thought that by riding the wave out, trying to trust and working hard to meet his emotional needs, I was doing the right thing. I think all I have done is make it possible for him to treat me in the most despicable way. I keep thinking this is not my husband, but I guess that is not a realistic attitude.

I have repeatedly confronted him whenever i found out about his illicit activities, though not always immediately. This has occurred at least 5 times in the last 13 months. Each time, I expect he will say that he wants a divorce. However, he always agrees to the provisions set and seems to try for a short period of time. Inevitably, I find soemthing out and he is back in the middle of this filth. After the initial confrontation last July, I did not realize that he continued until March. The rest of the confrontations have been since then.

How do I know when to say enough is enough? I can't save him from himself and this is killing me. I truly can't live like this much longer. I so don't want to let go, but I don't know what else to do. I have worked very hard to meet his needs (particularly respect), avoid clinginess, try to restore trust. I have worked hard on cultivating new interests myself. I have taken full responsibility for my mistakes in the marriage. I have forgiven what is in the past, but I am now stuck with what he continues to do.
I have not seen an attorney and my finances are a disaster. I should have separated finances a long time ago. I have done nothing to protect myself because I have tried so hard to believe in him and hope that he would choose to change.

I guess it is ridiculous to say in this forum, but I really do feel like no one can understand the depth of pain and sorrow I am feeling. I know that is not true, but it feels that way. I know I am not the first person to have the man of their dreams turn into an unrecognizable, selfish, self destructive liar.

I can't beleive he would repeteadly destroy me, have no regard for our children and endanger everything that he used to hold sacred.

I think I am at Plan B whether I want to be or not. I just need someone who has been here to give me some feedback. Initiating separation feels like a betrayal of my faith, my children and my own promises. I just can't allow him to do this to me any longer. If I am going to hurt like this, I need to know it is in the pursuit of the end rather than an unending parade of loneliness, rejection, lies and betrayal.

I would really appreciate anyone that could help

csong07 - gee, I dunno, no one can feel someone else's feelings. We can understand them, especially if we can relate our own "similar" experience and what WE ourselves felt. So try this one on and see if it relates to what you are feeling:

My wife had intermittant contact with her OM (following their 6 year continous and deeply involved affair) for 4 years AFTER we began recovery. Not once was a contact "confessed," I had to catch her in them (and I'll never know how many there may have been that I didn't catch).

We are now almost 5.25 years into since we began recovery (about 1+ years since the last known contact) and we are "Recovered." During those 4 years, there were several times that I was ready to surrender the fight and "toss in the towel." So maybe, just maybe, there might be a few on MB who don't think it's ridiculous for you to talk about your feelings regarding contact and your struggle with continuing the recovery efforts.

I can tell you the "key" moment in my wife's life when the contact finally came to an end, and I think it's essential to a successful recovery, because NO CONTACT for life is a requirement, not just a "good idea," in my opinion.

But only you can decide if when "enough is enough" and it's time to "toss in the towel."

Just be sure to examine that decision carefully and NEVER react to that decision while the emotions are raging. Put it on the table and examine it coldly and calculatingly and make certain it IS what you want, because the most likely outcome will be a divorce, not a reconciliation.

God bless.

Thank you so much for a response. I so need the counsel of others with similar experience. This is so isolating.

What was the catalyst that finally made your WS choose to break contact? I have not found one.

After a tremendous amount of prayer and seeking, I am now in Plan B. I had not exposed the affairs to any of his family or his best friend. I have done so and they are behind me. I have contacted one of the OW in his life and she truly seemed not to know he was married. He told her that he was in the process of a divorce. He has lied to me so much that it seems likely he lied to her as well. She was forthcoming about details of his contact with her this week that affirmed what I already knew to be true. She says she is done. I have offered my forgiveness of her and prayers for her own healing. She is in the middle of a divorce because her husband cheated on her. I left a voicemail for the other OW informing her that we are married and that she is not even the only OW.

I am requiring that he leave my home and break all contact not directly related to the care of our children. I have rationally and calmly stated my inviolate boundaries adn I am going to hold to them. I realized today that him leaving is not longer the worst thing that could happen. Him staying here and contuning to choose to destroy me is worse.

I know I placing myself in a position to have my marriage end. I have made it clear that if he is willing to follow the MB principles, I am willing to reconcile. I am daily forgiving all that has come before.

To this point, my pain has been his only consequence for his behavior and that is clearly not enough. From this point on, the consequences are his to choose and feel. I am not responsible for him and i can only do my best to be responsible for me.

I am praying for him.

Me - 37
WH - 36
M - 15 years
Sons 13,9,5
D-Day 7-06 and God knows how many times since then

Time, repeated confrontations with each discovered contact in which I said that No Contact is not "optional." I will not live my life constantly looking over my shoulder and if she truly wants to stay married, she will have to choose.

It is HARD sometimes for a WS to "let go," but eventually if you are going to have a successful recovery there will have to come a day, as it did for my wife, when they "get it." They "get" that they MUST put your feelings ahead of their own or the OP's because there truly is NO ROOM in a marriage for a third person, especially one who tried to destroy the marriage through adultery.

What you are precipitating is a "crisis." He can no longer just "fence sit" and will have to actually make a choice. MAKING that choice may take time, but as long you are clear in your boundary, he will know that what happens next will be HIS choice and his making.

That, unfortunately, is what is needed most of the time. As long as a WS is permitted by the BS to "cakewalk," a final decision does not have to be made. Now he has to begin to face reality, not fantasy, and reality has a way of being something he cannot escape. It goes with him everyday, with the knowledge that HE is the one who is the CAUSE of all of this.

Stay strong, and be sure that you understand that you cannot "forgive" him until he truly repents. Forgiveness without repentence is meaningless and only serves to tell him that he can do whatever he wants to do without any consequences.

God bless.

Thanks for you feedback. I have worked plan B all day. I have notified all important others and have removed WH from my house. The worst was talking to my kids and that felt like ****. I had not planned on telling them that their dad had been unfaithful. I decided to say that he was making poor choices and could not live with us until his behavior changed. They have known that we are having trouble and I have been honest with them in that regard.

I am devastated to learn that my precious, brave 13 year old son knew. I am not surprised, but I am so sad. He had found a voice message from his to dad to one of the OWs addressing her by name and professing his love for her. I am very glad that he was able to tell me when we talked today and no longer has to carry that awful secret alone. He is such a good kid and was trying to protect me. Once he realized I knew, it made it easier for him to come clean.

He has lost his innocence in the course of one day. It was absolutely stolen from him. Hs dad and I have alwayd been crazy in love before the current nightmare and he has a whole lifetime of memories of that. He says he is very angry because he realizes taht all this time he has thought of his dad one way and now knows that he is really something else. He is very contemptuous right now.

I am trying to help him understand something I don't really understand myself. I believe that due to deep seated pain, my husband is self destructing and we are just colatteral damage at this point. Another poster referred to his wife as an alien robot that bears a strinking resemblance to his beloved wife. I sure understand that. My son was able to wrap his head around that but he is pissed.

My littler guys are very sad. I pray God gives me the strength to do this right. For every other crap thing my WH has done, hurting them like this is BY FAR the worst. This is the very thing I sought to prevent by keeping the secret. I know I have done the right thing today by shining light on this, but it feels so bad.

I will stick to my guns. I intentionally set things up so that I have no other option but to do so. I don't want to waver in a moment of weakness and i am sure those will come. My best friend will hold me accountable to my chosen path and will push me hard to keep my boundary.

As to your comment about forgiveness without repenetance, you are so right. I thought that freely offered forgiveness, love and mercy would help him "come home". I know now that that is not the case. It is only permission to treat my badly over and again. Worse, it cheapens grace in his eyes and he does not respect the extraordinary cost of forgiveness. Everything is cheap to him right now.

I had become just another girl in his life and that circumstance is intolerable. He has thrown love away hand over fist with no regard for anyone but himself. Rather than appreciating what love costs the giver, he has treated it like something cheap and tacky. Who is this man?

Please continue to post. Coming here also helps keep me accountable.

By his stripes we are healed.

csong70, why don't you tell me a little about your husband's faith and relationship with Christ? My wife was, and is, a believer, but that does not mean that believers are immune to sin and temptation, just that God does provide a "way out."

God bless.

Until this weekend, my WH was the youth director at our church. We co-lead the group.

All I can say is that he has lost his mind.

He has been a believer for many years. NOt just in words, but has had an active life in faith and was thought of as a promising leader in our congregation. He has taught Sunday SChool for many years and is adored by the kids he has ministered to.

Prior to the A beginning late last spring/early last summer, he had some career reversals that he discounted at the time as being OK. I was very worried but he did seem to bounce back initially. However, he nose dived and our life has exploded.

His faith walk is nonexistent. He has at times refused to let me pray over him when he is awake. He feels God has turned away from him and does not hear his prayers.

I have sought the assistance of a wise and trusted older man in our congregation and my WH met with him once. It seemed to go well, but WH continued to engage in his sinful, self destructive behavior.

I am so tired of the lies. When I catch him in one, he just tells another. It has tuly become second nature to him.

I feel that the distance he feels from God is due to the fact that he has actively thrown himself into sin while professing to seek God. When we seek, we have to turn toward God, he will take us where we are, pick us up and clean us off. I pray that he will hear the voice of God and turn, but he is running full tilt in the other direction.

I feel like i have stepped off a sinking boat and taken my children with me. I hate it, but it does feel like the best choice in my current circumstances.

Your thoughts?

csong70 - Your husband is correct, God does not hear the prayers of someone actively involved in willful disobedience to Him (sin).




I think you would need to describe what you mean by "pray over him." This does not seem to make much sense, especially for someone who is willfully engaged in adultery.




Your husband has forfeited all position of authority, let alone teaching. NO ONE actively and willfully engaged in sinning against God is qualified to teach about obedience to God, nor should it be "allowed" or "tolerated" by the church.

What IS needed is a loving application of Matthew 18:15-20, with hoped for objective of confession, repentance, and restoration. We can talk more about that should you like.




Let's be perfectly clear and frank about this, Csong70. God is VERY clear about adultery and adulterers. NOT ONE unrepentant adulterer will be in heaven. If you'd like the Scripture reference, let me know and I'll provide it.

IF he does not repent of his willful sin, then it is very apparent that he never was "born again."

He MAY just be ensnared in sin, but if that is true, then he will KNOW that the 7th Commandment has no "statute of limitations and applies equally today as when God first gave it to Moses. That means he CHOOSES to rebel against God and to thumb his nose at Christ's sacrifice.

This is the real dilemna, because if he replaces God with himself as "Sovereign Lord" of his life, he "makes himself the equal of God." Think about that. Someone else did exactly the same thing.

Now is the time for fellow believers to come to his aid, and that again is the purpose of Matthew 18:15-20

God bless.

ForeverHers:

Since my last post, I have spoken to our church leadersuip and WH is no longer teaching or leading in our church. ALl of the parents have been advised that we are separated. The reason was not given to the larger congregation.

Our pastors and others in our congregation are attempting to reach out to him in love while aslo holding him accountable. I am no longer the person to do this if I ever was.

I bear responsibility for his continued position of leadership as I kept the secret. I was operating in survival mode and lost my perspective. Had I found this site sooner, I would have done almost everything differently.

AS far as praying over him, it just means holding his hand or placing my hand on his arm and him allowing me to pray even when he was unable to do so himself. I know now that having me pray for him audibly must have been agony as he continued to do what he had been doing. He couldn't and can't stop the children and me from praying for him.

I believe he is at an interseting stage right now. He was/is (?) caught up in sin and had come to like it. However, there is enough of my real husband in there that he does feel guilt for what he has done and is maybe still doing.

You and I know that guilt is functional when it causes us to move away from our sinful path and towards God in true repentance seeking restoration of the relationship with him and others. Right now, I have no idea if this will be his path, if he will find other OWs to replace what he seems to have lost or if he will just get stuck and wallow in guilt and self loathing.

I can't control him or prevent further disastrous choices. I am focusing on what I can do and that involves taking care of my kids, trying to cope with this in healthy ways for me, and trying to keep my heart somewhat open in th event he tries to reconcile. I have lived with this so long that now that I have removed him from my home, sometimes i feel better. I don't want to feel miserable by any means, but I also don't want to close my heart and give up on my marriage.

As the MC advised at one time, sometimes you have to commit to the commitment when you are struggling to hold on.

Looking forward to your thoughts and counsel.

csong - My husband was a strong believer, and very active in our church, and we led a young marrieds group. He has been a long time Christian. But nothing seemed to make him change and repent. He had an affair that lasted almost 4 years.

I went to our pastors and requested prayer. They advised my husband that he was no longer welcome in church until he came in and met with a pastor. He never did.

We finally divorced last December, and the affair ended within 2 weeks of our divorce. Now my husband says he is sorry, but I don't think he is. If the OW had not broken up with him, the affair would still be continuing.

I hope your husband does better.

I am so sorry.

I certainly hope he does better as well. The last year + has been pure ******. I am sure you understand that.

I sometimes feel that I have been widowed and don't have the sense to know it. I am afraid my precious, gorgeous, kind husband is dead and i have been left with some awful SOB in his place that can do things he knows will destroy me and not care.

I have had a bad day. WH told the kids he will be getting his own place rather than staying with friend. I am trying to keep the faith and not give up, but I am mightily discouraged today.

I desperately wish I had found this site earlier. I would have exposed a year ago rather than days ago. I know I have hard work to do and this will be emotionally exhausting. I think I am having a lot of trouble because I was already so weary when I got here from carrying this alone.

I did the best I could with what I had to work with at the time.

A good "First Step," csong.

Now I am a little concerned about "the pastors and others in the congregation" issue. Matthew 18:15-20 CLEARLY points out the steps and proper "order" of church discipline. This phrase you used as to how the church lis handling things has me concerned. The "circle of knowledge" is purposefully kept very small for a time, and only expands AFTER TIME when the efforts are met with continuing objection and lack of repentance.

WHAT is the church's position on discipline and WHY are so many people "involved" at this stage?

What "accountability" is being applied?

Are the pastors TRAINED in biblical marital counseling, or just the "counseling" training they received in school?





This "advice" puzzles me somewhat. Exaclty WHAT is the "commitment" that is being advised to "commit to?"

For a Christian, the "answer" is obvious, one's personal commitment to submit their own life in humble obedience to God, no matter what they are feeling or the circumstances they encounter in their lives.

But that statement appeared to be so "nebulous" that it "could" even mean the "commitment to commit adultery."

So perhaps you could clarify that statement a little, for better understanding.

God bless.

Thanks for asking for clarification.

When I made reference to others in the congregation, I did not mean they were privy to the details. Other than the pastors and my best friend, no one in the congregation is aware of the reason for our separation, only that it has occurred.

He did not attend services at our church in Sunday and i was not surprised.

At this point, I meant that people in our congregation have called to tell them that he is loved, etc. I really don't know the details as I am only having contact with my husband to arrange for visitation with my children, etc.

Our pastors are well trained in counseling, one holds a masters in counseling.

When I referred to commiting to the commitment, I meant that when things are very difficult and feelings would lead us to give up, we stay committed because we made a promise to do so.

I have no idea what response I will get here, but my IC advised me to file for divorce immediately. she has been our MC as well and is very well acquainted with the situation and my husband.

I live in a community property state that does not provide for legal separation. I am liable for all debts he incurs until I file for divorce. I have confirmed this with an attorney.In our state, we will have to wait a year for the divorce to become final and one of us must act to complete the process.

Nothing else has caused my husband to turn from his wayward behavior. He continues to have contact with at least one OW that I am able to confirm. I do not waver in my desire to reconcile and repair our marriage. However, I have expended every other option to no avail.

This is extraordinarily out of character for me. He is very aware of my commitment to the marriage through both my words and deeds. It is my hope and prayer that this will knock him on his butt and get his attention. I know that he may continue to engage in the same behavior and my marriage may be lost. However, I can't continue any longer with the way things have been. This may seem contradictory to my previous statements, but I can't be committed enough for bith of us. I tried for a year and it was a spectacular failure. I am placing the responsibility squarely with him for what comes next.