LindySue ~

Affairs are never accidents. Affairs are choices. It's really that simple.

Everything happens for a reason...sure your husband and his OW made a choice to have an affair. That's the reason it happened. Because 2 selfish people chose to gain regardless of the cost to others. Is it a nice reason? No. But it IS the reason.

I am in KaylaAndy's camp. Accidents require victims, and I choose not to live my life as a victim.

I'm no longer angry. It took some time to get here, but no anger.

I am, however, very untrusting of people in general now. But I'm also very grateful to be healthy and also know I'm blessed in my life for many many things. My life now is nothing like it was when I was married.

One day I hope to gain some trust back by working on looking at people as they are, humans, that make mistakes. But its a long road before I give anyone power over my decisions or my health in that respect.

Jo

R,
Good for you and I am trying to have faith in my H again, I trust him as I did before, I just can't seem to respect him even though he has quit drinking and tries very hard. I want to have that respect for him again.

But then there I go taking the moral high ground and I have plenty of mistakes to answer for.

We are just humans, as you say. I guess we learn as we go, some just learn faster.

Lindy

Lindysue,

Harley tells us that you should not 100% completely trust your spouse. I'm not saying you should constantly be suspicious they are cheating. But he tells us everyone is predisposed to affairs.

I'm trying to locate the MB on-site article to place it here for you to read. Maybe Mel knows where its at.

Jo

Found it. Harley writes:

[color:"blue"]We are all wired to have an affair. We can all fall in love with someone of the opposite sex if that person meets one of our emotional needs. If you don't think it can happen to you because of your conviction or will-power, you are particularly vulnerable to an affair. And if you think your spouse would never have an affair, you are also vulnerable.

Look what happened to poor Kathy Lee Gifford. She stated publicly and wrote in one of her books that she trusted her husband completely, that he would never cheat on her. But she should not have trusted her husband. If she would have taken the steps she is now taking to help him avoid another affair, the first would never have taken place, and she would have avoided all its pain and embarrassment.

I don't trust my wife completely and she doesn't trust me, and that's why neither of us have ever had an affair. Lack of trust does not make spouses paranoid and miserable, it makes their marriages safe.[/color]


Harley's excerpt above is linked here: Click Here

Back to the main question, I'll give my take on "accidents".

Accident: an unfortunate event occurring casually.(webster)

example: I accidentally pushed end call instead of answer call on my new cell phone.

Is luck an accident? I don't believe in luck, you make your own luck. You don't trip over the same crack in the sidwalk due to bad luck, it is due to not learning from mistakes. You don't win at the slots due to luck, just the timing of the slot.

I know where your going w/this "accidents" question. Could accidents also be grouped into a series of unfortunate events?

Here is my example. I go out w/girl, we fall in love, girl sleeps w/another man, feels bad, comes back to me, we marry, have kids, live happily ever after.

If she wouldn't have slept w/other man, would we still be together? If we didn't have kids so early would we still be together? If we didn't find this site and read the books would we still be together? If GF got pregnant by OM where would I/She be now? If that happened, my kids would not be here, are they meant to be here? Will one of them be the next President of the USA?

Many questions and different results do to CHOICES we have made. Did we make these choices, or was it in the stars?

I believe in God, or it may be that I fear God. Do you really think God has our every minute planed out for us? Did he make me type this long drawn out post to annoy you? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I believe God started us out and let us make our way "home". If we choose the right path, we come home. If we choose the wrong path he tells us to go to ******.(tounge in cheek)

Now back to accidents, are they then choices or luck? I consider them choices, as I chose to not read the directions on my new cell phone. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Well, I am also extremely open minded, but close my mind once something proves to be nonsense, such as fatalism. I am open minded to the truth. Being "open minded" is not a virtue and was not intended to be a permanent state of mind, but a temporary state of mind while one examines the truth. You should not be open minded to foolishness. [unless one is a fool, of course]


I am sure you want and need to believe that so I can understand why you are casting about for "explanations." But sometimes things are just as simple as they appear. The reason your H had an affair is because he CHOSE TO HAVE AN AFFAIR. Its really that simple.

There is no need to manufacture some imaginary cosmic puppeteer who is engineering your H's life. Your H made a choice, pure and simple. It happened for a "reason," and that "reason" is that he CHOSE to have an affair.

I think that is what I said, you close your mind if it does not suit your purpose, which you just did.

I am glad for you that you know the absolute "truth"- I, however don't and would like to keep my "temporary" state of open mindedness permanently.

You appear to be a very black and white kind of person, I am shades of gray, that's what life is made of.

I know the simple truth that my H chose to have an affair, that's a given.

And I am grappling with explanations and still searching even though he has explained it to me-I still deal with the why of it. Not trying to pin some out of world experience on him.

Glad you are recovered-I am still working on it. And appreciate all points of view, even those that differ from mine.
I see you are from Texas as I am, we Texas girls are pretty outspoken.
Thanks, Lindy

Tell me LindySue - How could you EVER feel safe with your husband or know he won't make this choice again if it's down to fate.

That IS frightening.

If it is up to fate, then I think his fate is now that he is not drinking and faces reality-he will make good choices. He views the world through a totally different perspective.

I, however, have no idea what his fate will be for sure, does anyone?

and you are OK with some random "force of nature" controlling this are you? happy with absolving him of any responsibility because it's his "fate"?

what if it's his "fate" to cheat again?

Yes, this is very true. Foolishness and nonsense like fatalism do not serve my purpose. Only the truth serves my purpose. I have little patience for Oprah new age nonsense.


You don't know the truth about ANYTHING? Do you know your NAME? Are you saying that you CANNOT discern truth..AT ALL? Even at your ripe age? Have you seen a psychiatrist about that problem?


Is that the truth? The truth is really very black and white. When something seems gray and fuzzy it is usually because I am lying to myself about something. I suspect this may be the source of your problem.


So you do know SOME truths? That is a step in the right direction for sure.


That is certainly a good start. You will find the answer WITH HIM, not with some silly foolish woman on TV.

I hope that some day you do develop the ability to discern truth, Lindy, it will help you navigate life.

FATE means that he HAS NO CHOICES, though. Fate means that things happen TO US according to the will of some mysterious - unnamed - cosmic puppeteer. So if you believe in FATE, this could very well "happen" to him again. And he would have NO choice in the matter.


Who exactly IS "fate," and what is your evidence?

Geez, ML,
Lighten up! I know the truth about a lot of things, but still searching for answers on some things.

I do not understand thinking like yours where your truth must be my truth and if not, I don't know anything, whereas, you are all knowing. I'll find my way, but it won't be dictating my beliefs as the only way to believe.Another thing in common besides Texas, both Cancers.
Keep it coming, we are stubborn!

Therein lies my original question- trying to understand that quote. I did not say I believe it, agree with it, etc., just trying to see what readers believed about it to better understand it myself.

No, I really hold my H responsible for his A, and at this point I am getting totally confused and perplexed at some reactions. I am not trying to prove, convey or convince anyone of anything.

Well I think you have recieved a good snapshot of what readers think. I think it's rubbish. I think we make choices. I'm confident my wife won't make a bad choice like that again as we have affair proofed our marriage. I don't have to worry about "fate"

Well, I am glad to hear that you can discern SOME TRUTHS. I was becoming concerned about your mental stability.

However, if something is TRUE, it is true for everyone or it is not true at all. Perspectives may vary; the truth does not or it is not true.

And of course I am not "all knowing" and have never made any such claim. Just stating that one can discern truth is not saying one is "all knowing."

If you are sincerely seeking the truth, I would suggest another venue than silly broad TV, Oprah. That is just foolishness, Lindy. Instead, pick up something that will expand your mind and expose you to the truth, such as Evidence that Demands a Verdict by Josh McDowell. He was an athiest who examined the claims of Christianity. This book is his research. It was a real eye opener for me and I suspect you will get much more out of it than you do from Oprah.

I've seen alot of betrayed spouses attempt to place the majority of the blame for an affair on the other person.

This is the first time I've seen someone blame "fate".

Lindy - your husband chose to have an affair. He decided that he was entitled to go outside your marraige and betray you in a most terrible way.

It's that simple. It's not fate or any other "grey" reason.

Well I teach Kinder so I don't "expand" my mind a lot, however, thanks for the book recommendation. Sometimes, after a day with 20 five year olds that have ODD, ADD, ADHD, ED, BD, ESL and various other learning disabilites-a good dose of fluff like Oprah or Ellen is just the ticket.

I never blamed it on fate, or if I did, that was not my intention -just wondering, thinking, pondering, questioning, searching that maybe, just maybe, it was his destiny/fate to hit rock bottom to see the light.