Vercswife,

Ok, you stated and asked
Here is the deal. You already know enough to start to bring the pieces together for your plan. Reading the books you have will give you more than you can use. I would recommend that you start with the plan tonight.

REad more as you two feel you need to know more. The start of this recovery starts with one step. Figure out what a good marriage would be like to you? What are your goals for life, your marriage, your family? Start by writing these things down. Hopefully your H will do the same.

You cannot have a plan until you have goals, detailed goals. You cannot have a plan until you know what you have to address some of those things are within you, some are product of your family and the past. You have counseling to address those things. But, Vercswife, you already should be figuring out where you want to go even if you don't know how to get there.

Start out with goals from your side, his side, and the POJA what the final list of goals should be based on both of your lists. Be detailed. IF your H says he wants sex more often, make him be specific (3 times a week or whatever). If you need hugs and kisses, be specific (how often and when, and under what circumstances). Continue like that for each and every goal, and THEN you start to figure out how to head toward those goals.

Let's say your H wants more intimacy but you have a sexual aversion, then clearly to achieve that goal, you will have to seek some counseling about the aversion. And so it goes, goals, paths, steps, milestones.

You see in someways this can become a lifetime persuit. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> A very good one at that.

I would also mention that while your H is very empty right now, and you are hurting very badly, this process does not need to be nor should it become...painful. This seeking of common goals and individual goals should be something that brings a smile to you.

Must go, but think about it. The first step needs to start tonight, or very soon.

God Bless,

JL

No I think we have at least a situation of 95% - 99% honesty, there would be little to gain with a polygraph at this point. After all one of our shared goals is to have that same level of total trust and love we once shared. We can't get that back by remaining in a state of conflict.
I am much more interested in how she sees what she did, if she truly sees the wrong in various actions and philosophies. Thats a much more telling sign than to me.
She is willing and if i can't get my male ego in check in the next 6 months i may do it but i don't need that now. In fact I feel its necessary for me to start this process with an ounce of trust to build on.

well thank Goid that is not our problem or we would not even be here talking.

You are right about the developing a plan, we will begin tonite and get it on the table. Thanks for all the input JL.

oh and my wife and I don't know what POJA means <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I like JL's plan too. It makes sense. And the fact you are both on board helps tremendously. Maybe you guys could take up some sort of hobby together or even just do something as simple as taking walks together in the evenings to get exercise. I don't know what your schedules are like, but doing an activity together will bring you closer.

I hope MEDC will stop being so pushy on the polygraph issue. Goodness... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

oh i see you don't like the polygraph thing either huh.....
hmmm just exactly what are you trying to hide ???

Just kidding, a little infidelity humor <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I understand why he is saying what he is saying and it would have been advice i should have taken 6 months to a year ago, but i was proactive anyways and was able to reach her and get her to serve up the truth on her own which is a much better victory.

FCF... Are you a FWS or BS??? I ask that because if you are a FWS, you don't have a clue as to what it is like to waste months or years of your life trying to get to the truth. I am a pretty good judge of a person being honest or not...and I offer that suggestion up in a way to speed up the recovery process.
Even the BH here has just said that he doesn't feel that total honesty has been given...high 90's doesn't cut it. My time here has see far too many people go through a discovery process that last far too long. A BS could be afforded peace of mind in a few hours...so what is the harm in that....that the poor FWS will have to submit to a test to prove their honesty. Well, that is a bed they made and frankly, they should not be trusted to tell the truth based on their past. Trust is something that needs to be warned back. The shame is, the BS that could benefit most from a polygraph are those that have been so bullied and beaten down that they can't even stand up and say they need this proof.
IMHO, any FWS that doesn't jump at the chance to help their BS in any and every way possible is really not a FWS....since the F is not earned until they have been 100% honest and they are doing everything in their power to help their spouse.

are you sure? I was...and I was wrong...and that last 1-5% that you believe she is holding on to is always the worst stuff. Same with criminals...they admit stuff according to severity...they hand out smaller things first and keep the big things close to the vest. I have seen it here on MANY MANY occasions, in my personal life and professional life.

My ex's last dirty little secret...my son walked in on her giving the OM a BJ. This after swearing on him, talking to counselors, doing any and everything she could to hold on to their secret... Not so little huh???

I can just tell you guys don't have the money and you don't feel you need it right now. If it's feed the family and pay the utilities or do a polygraph... well too me the choice seems obvious. I don't see why he needs to keep hammering you about it. You know how he feels... give it a rest already.

It's really unfortunate that your son walked in on such a thing MEDC. Stop projecting so much though, you sound VERY jaded. People here are trying to rebuild their marriage's. Anger can be healthy, but it can also be very toxic. At some point you have to move forward.

FCF...you can dismiss my words because of what you think... I state them because of what I know...not what i feel. And frankly, I don't need you to tell me why people are here FCF. Your views about what you think you know about my situation are frankly as unimportant as can be.

Whatever MEDC... ********edit******* It's good to get a second opinion in these situations, IMO.

I see two people trying to recover their M, they are very fragile right now. Your incessant WS bashing isn't helping. He's VERY AWARE of what his wife has done.

FCF...I did not attack any FWS. ****EDIT****


FCF...I am reading Vercs words here and have come up with a solution tho his concerns. He may or may not agree. That is his prerogative. But YOU have decided that my motivations are out out my being "jaded"...not so. They are because I have experienced this, seen it here and have a good understanding from two of my professions and over 20 years of experience regarding how people that have lied hang on to the "roughest" details for last.

Never did I attack Vercs wife here. Not once. And your insinuating that I have is wrong and a lie. I want to help them avoid the pitfalls that my read on the their situation thinks possible.

Also, your comment about someone that actually recovered a M is uncalled for. Not every poster here has been lucky enough to have a partner that was willing to do the things necessary to recover. There are a lot of people that have gone through divorce on these boards and your slam against me is a slap in the face to all of them. Bottom line is, it seems awfully funny that a woman whose relationship survived only because her H decided to forgive her can cast negative comments my way.

thanks Justuss. I am trying very hard to temper my responses to these types of things.

I agree, that wasn't fair to others here. I regretted it after I posted it. I apologize to the posters here.

I also think that if verc felt a polygraph was necessary for recovery and they had the finances there shouldn't be an issue with vercswife doing it. They are telling you they don't have the money and at this time they don't feel it's necessary. I think JL gave great advice that is less expensive. It will also serve to bring them closer together.

sometimes BS are afraid to ask for things they need. I am sure you have seen that in your time here.

I saw nothing from them that made their finances out to be as dire as you noted. I would still suggest that if they could find a way, that the money would be well spent.

And FCF, just to let you know...I am not bitter, I am informed. There is a huge difference. I wouldn't trade my current life with anyone. I have no reason to be bitter.
And yes, JL gave them great advice too.

MEDC:

How about this....

You requested that the parties on this thread do a polygraph test.

The BS has considered it, and says that he can't afford it, nor does he feel he needs it now. He might in the future.

The WS in this case, maybe should just schedule one up, and go. But the economics still come into play, even in that decision.

So, You might be right, but give it a little bit of a rest.

I believe that a better answer to this BS right now, maybe be advice in how to ask for the information that he needs.

A polygraph will reveal certain things, so, advise the BS in this case of the type and manner of questions to be asked.

You may have some guidelines that he could use.

He can gauge the truthfulness of his WW answers, and then ask proper follow up questions.

Verc: Please get a copy of "Joseph's Letter" from Pepperband's Notable Posts at the top of this forum.

Vercswife: Please read, and UNDERSTAND, what Joesph's Letter asks of you.

And Verc may decide that there is info he in not interested in knowing, but that is HIS CHOICE to make. Not yours. You are not "protecting" him by making that decision, that "this information" will hurt Verc too much. The hurt will always come, when ever the truth comes out. It's better just to get it over with.

For both of you: There is much to know. There can be great intimacy in sharing this information and finally revealing yourself in all your flaws to your partner. And the BS in this case has got to be open as well. You have stories to tell as well. I am not suggesting you were in an affair, but it is time for you to discuss your insecurities and your fears as well with your W.

This isn't interrogation time, it's time to share.

And Vercswife has to feel that at some point she will get closure.

She can expect that to happen when she has revealed everything, honestly, that her H wants/needs to know.

But not until then. And the sooner you start, the sooner this phase of recovery will start to pass. From the statements that you too have made here, it sounds like you are well on your way in this process. Don't quit.

Verc:

Please try to write down, on index cards, or pieces of paper, the questions you still need to ask. Sort them by general topic, and then try to think of some follow up or related questions. Then, you can give the questions to your W to consider, then you two should meet and talk about 3-5 questions a week. For about two hours, one night a week. The rest of the time you do good RC things together.

You might want to start with the questions that are most pressing, or difficult, but it's probably easier to go the other way. Start with some of the easier questions and work towards the harder questions. It builds trust and care in both parties. Then the tougher questions are easier to handle.

Number the questions, and then set them aside, select the first 3-5, and have that discussion, allow yourself time to ask followup questions, and then select next weeks 3-5 questions, so that W can consider those answers before the next meeting.

Vercwife: You need to ANSWER the questions. Expand the answer to include information maybe not ASKED, but pertinent to the question. Yes or no doesn't cut it. And avoid justifications. You did it. Leave it at that.

Hey, it worked for us.

LG

PS: I was writing this as your last two posts from FCF and MEDC came in...Seems the peace pipe has been passed a little. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I was thinking about it at lunch, trying to get to the bottom of why the way you "post" irks me. I think you remind me of someone (TMI) I know IRL.

Anyway, no hard feelings. We all have the same intent, to help this couple during a difficult process.

thank you for all the help and advice. it has been really helpful. unfortunately it is a money issue regarding the polygraph.only because i need to go for therapy. lots of therapy! it is crucial at this point. my H and I have spoken about the test and perhaps we can do it for less. i am not opposed to do it. We have discussed and discussed we have marathon conversations that can go 6 to 8 hours at a time. There has been MANY questions asked sometimes more than once and many answers and truths revealed. i like your idea lousygolfer with the questions. My H has made a list of questions that are on the computer and i have answered most of them.
Since you have experience can you advise us MEDC...
"A polygraph will reveal certain things, so, advise the BS in this case of the type and manner of questions to be asked."

polygraph exams will measure deception on yes/no questions only. A skilled examiner will know what questions to ask as follow up to those answers that show deception.
The questions are not sprung on the examinees... they know the questions ahead of time. The examiner would speak to your H and develop a list of questions that would be asked based on the information needed.
One question will always be....have you been truthful about xyz??
Another might be...is there anything you have hidden regarding your affair?

It all depends on the sticking points. Bottom line is, a good examiner will easily be able to tell if the person is being honest. MOST people that take a polygraph(in a domestic situation) are shown to have some deception...which they admit to when it comes out. Also, very frequently the night BEFORE an exam becomes big confession time for people. When faced with the embarrassment of needing technology to bring them to an honest position regarding historical events...many people decide the gig is up and it is time to end the deception. The real healing can then begin if that is what the BS desires.
IMHO...if it requires a polygraph to get a person to come clean...they can't be trusted. That is why I see it as a way for a FWS to PROVE their innocence. It truly is a gift to the BS and no matter how awkward a FWS thinks it might be...it does not in any way compare to the damage that is done by an affair or continued deception.
My ex wishes she had jumped at the chance to take it the first time it was suggested by me and our counselor. He said to her it was a get out of jail free card...and she balked...as most do when they are hiding something. His argument which I now agree to is that the FWS should be clamouring to do the test since they are the ones that have suffered a loss of credibility.

I hope this helps.

MEDC

thanks for the advice.
If i took the test it would be a good way to show that i have been truthful and it would go a long way in helping my husband believe that what i have said is the truth and there is no more that i am hiding. Because even though he says he believes me- i think there is still some doubt. It's because of the love he has for me and his hope for us that he wants to believe me and put this behind us and move forward. This test would be evidence to back me up and help my H so we can move forward. it's just so humiliating but it's the least i can do since this is all my fault anyhow.

I agree.

And even he has said on here that he doesn't believe all the truth is out.

there is no humiliation in this...it is something you are doing to help your M. The only humiliation is when someone goes in thinking they will beat the machine.

The beauty of this is that you guys don't need to spend any more time discussing the facts of the past...the feelings will still need to be worked through...but the questioning of deatils will disappear. And watch your H after this is done...you will see a weight lifted from his shoulders.

Good luck.

MEDC