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Shaden #1935590 09/05/07 04:52 PM
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You know there's a sport in Texas called "Yankee Tree'd". You just hop on your horse, spot yourself a yankee and chase him up a tree. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Widowed 11/10/12 after 35 years of marriage
*********************
In a sense now, I am homeless. For the home, the place of refuge, solitude, love-where my husband lived-no longer exists. Joyce Carolyn Oates, A Widow's Story
Shaden #1935591 09/05/07 04:55 PM
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I'm sure there were trees on the show Dallas... or was that filmed in Vancouver?

Even the silly foreigner knows there are trees in Texas!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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You know there's a sport in Texas called "Yankee Tree'd". You just hop on your horse, spot yourself a yankee and chase him up a tree. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I like dat sport!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Meg, ya see any trees out yore way??


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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Tumbleweeds DO NOT constitute TREES.

I repeat

Tumbleweeds DO NOT constitute TREES.

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I have occasionally lived in Texas.

It seems to depend on the area you are working from.

Some places you hang 'em from a tree and let the horse unseat them.

Some places you just use the tree.

Some places you can't find a tree so you just go ahead and tie them to the horse...who after a few good licks will get the job done..ya know..eventually.

Some places you don't need a horse or a tree and just let the 'gators get 'em.

In any case there is a distinct lack of loose ends.


Cowards die many times before their deaths; The valiant never taste of death but once ~Shakespeare
noodle #1935595 09/05/07 05:56 PM
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Hmm. I thought they tied the other end of the noose to the horse and gave the horse a giddy-up thus dragging the perp to death.

go figure.

Shaden: Any chance of you actually deciding to go ALL IN and do this the MB way properly without modification?


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
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That was option 4 ...see above.

Modified plan B gets you modified recovery which is sometimes referred to as "false".


Cowards die many times before their deaths; The valiant never taste of death but once ~Shakespeare
noodle #1935597 09/05/07 06:12 PM
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ohhhhhhhhhhhhh Sorry Noodle - I missed option 4. LOL.


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
Empty Nesters.
Fully Recovered.
noodle #1935598 09/05/07 06:21 PM
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Give me the rundown on "all in"

I think so. Going dark is no problem... as long as it doesn't affect my kids.

I need to think some more on exposure... I don't have very much to go on... but am willing. I'm not against the exposure... just done that without any positive affects. The guy is divorced. My W's family already know and support her, I think. They certainly won't go against her... they didn't the last time... because their moral compass is just as whacked... for all their talk of Christianity and the Lord will look after them. I am a Christian... so I'm not putting down Christianity... just those who use it to sound good and to their advantage.

My W talks to others and says she is trusting in the Lord to bring her through this... but does not do anything (except stay for awhile in guilt) to repair the marriage that she has.

My other option is divorce... so I'm game.

However... there are some things that I need to think about on my own to ensure that I feel comfortable that I am not lowering my own integrity.

When I confronted my W about the new guy, she was just angry that I was snooping again... so was her sister. How could I possibly break her trust in this way and invade her privacy??? LOL Snooping is not below my integrity if it is to protect my family. In the past, I have argued against it... not now. However, snooping does hurt me as well... and it brings on anxiety and sleepless nights, so I will have to put a limit on it.

I don't think my W will respond to the hard tactics of Plan B... but right now I am doing this first for me and my sons... with her I have nothing to lose. She certainly didn't respond to the softer tactics.

Okay... I've convinced myself as I've talked. What do you suggest?

Shaden


BH (Me) - 38
WW - 36
Married - 16 years
2 children - 10,12
DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space
DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW
DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended.
11/07/05 - exposed to OMW...
07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing.
09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.

Patience with God is Faith.
Patience with myself is Hope.
Patience with others is Love.
FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
Shaden #1935599 09/05/07 06:37 PM
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Exposure to your children for a start Shaden.
Dark Plan B.

You are already separated. You are heading for a divorce if you do nothing. The fact she wants contact with you still indicated you ARE meeting EN's and she WILL be affected by a dark Plan B.

Frankly, you have confirmed the new OM so no need for snooping. Plan B will take you OUT of the drama. Snooping only keeps you in it.

At some point you divorce OR she will want to prove to you that NC is in place and she wants your marriage.

ALL IN ALSO means not settling for crumbs.

She is NOT a good mother Shaden when she is running off or wanting to run off and marry OM. The addiction dictates she will put her affair above her children. ALL WS's do this. It's part of what they are.


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
Empty Nesters.
Fully Recovered.
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You are almost 2 years into this mate and almost the same or worse situation. The Harley way can work for you if you let it and overcome your fears.


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
Empty Nesters.
Fully Recovered.
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OK... I want everyone's input on exposure to the kids.

Is there a possibility of damaging them more than they are being damaged by divorce. (So many have told my W that they have been through a divorce and the kids have come out fine... even better). I am not talking about their relationship with their mother... I am talking about their well-being.

If this happens... when is the best time? After I have all other matters in place (financial, etc.) I also need to find out about custody... and what happens if she refuses to let me see them after I expose. What are my rights.

This will get down right messy... I'm good with that. But I need to know the boys will be fine.

Shaden


BH (Me) - 38
WW - 36
Married - 16 years
2 children - 10,12
DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space
DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW
DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended.
11/07/05 - exposed to OMW...
07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing.
09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.

Patience with God is Faith.
Patience with myself is Hope.
Patience with others is Love.
FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
Shaden #1935602 09/05/07 06:47 PM
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Shaden:

Welcome Back!

What's Next? Heartsore?

But Plan B?

Sounds like it is time.

She obviously used this trial seperation to start making other plans.

So can you.

She is the one with boundary issues, and no real incentive to actually start working on it.

Sorry you have to go there, but, It might be the only thing that ever gets you and your children to a safe place.

LG

Shaden #1935603 09/05/07 06:55 PM
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Well, I vote for Plan B. I think that more than anything you need a break from this. And if you think you can hold out awhile longer, I would take that route.

I do disagree that exposure had no effect. I believe it had a great effect in your case. It was one of the only times your W had to face consequences of her actions. She was royally pissed off, too, if I remember right. Even though her creepy family doesn't care [I remember that her mother actually even aided her last affair, didn't she?] I would still get her current affair out there and talk about her "adultery" openly.

I would most especially tell your boys, and I will tell you why. Being seperated, she is bound to introduce them to her paramour du jour. She will teach them that adultery is perfectly acceptable and they will grow up morally confused and turn into little adulterers themselves. I know how horrible this is from personal experience.

Kids instinctively know right from wrong and when that is not validated - or even contradicted by adults, they begin to doubt themselves. It is much easier to believe that oneself is stupid than to believe your own parent is actually ammoral. If they are going to be around her and your goofy inlaws, they desperately need your moral guidance about this since they will never get it from that side.

And most importantly, your wife is going to be in for a rude wake up when you aren't around to take care of her. You are probably meeting 3-4 of her needs and she has been taking that for granted for years. She is of an age, that unless she is a smoking hottie, she is not apt to find men as anxious to take care of her as you have. Being "single" she will be competing with 29 yr olds - with no baggage. So her little fantasies about other guys will quickly crumble when the light of reality shines in.

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When I confronted my W about the new guy, she was just angry that I was snooping again... so was her sister. How could I possibly break her trust in this way and invade her privacy??? LOL Snooping is not below my integrity if it is to protect my family.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I agree with your reasoning about snooping. Once you go into Plan B, I would shut that all down so you can withdraw from her mess. And I do believe that snooping is a VIRTUE when one has cause. There is nothing dishonest about snooping. You have a right to know every single thing your wife does.

Lastly, I suspect that your wife will go ballistic when you go into plan B because she does not want to lose control of you. I envision her using every trick in the book to get you back on the massahs plantation. I think she is really very dependent on you and doesn't want to lose your services.

Therefore, i would only do this if you fully intend on going black as night and are willing to withstand her onslaught. Because if you let her in even a little tiny bit, she will have won. She will have spit on your credibility and proven that she can manage you at her will. That is a dreadful, dangerous message to send a selfish, entitled wayward because it is a forfeiture of any leverage and any credibility.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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There's plenty of data that shows kids don't come out of divorce fine - I can dig it up for you if you want.

I lnow Mel has some stuff from Dr Harley about exposure to children. I will leave it to her to post it. Suffice to say that the lies and moral confusion caused to children is more damaging than the truth. In fact Jesus said the truth sets you free.


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
Empty Nesters.
Fully Recovered.
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She just called me to take the boys. I was able to tap into her facebook messages. She told him that she was wanting the boys to come here so she could call "her man". She told me she wanted to go shopping.

I first said No, I was busy.

I just called and changed my mind.


BH (Me) - 38
WW - 36
Married - 16 years
2 children - 10,12
DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space
DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW
DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended.
11/07/05 - exposed to OMW...
07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing.
09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.

Patience with God is Faith.
Patience with myself is Hope.
Patience with others is Love.
FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
Shaden #1935606 09/05/07 07:03 PM
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OK... I want everyone's input on exposure to the kids.

See my post above. Exposure is GOOD for kids. Affairs and divorce are BAD for kids.

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Is there a possibility of damaging them more than they are being damaged by divorce. (So many have told my W that they have been through a divorce and the kids have come out fine... even better).

Divorce is devastating to kids. Adultery is harmful to kids. Exposure is not. Kids can deal with the truth, not lies.

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I also need to find out about custody... and what happens if she refuses to let me see them after I expose.

She does not have the right to withhold your kids from you. At least it is that way in America. it is ILLEGAL in America. Not anymore than you could withhold your kids from her for her ADULTERY, a truly damaging activity.

Your kids need your moral guidance about their adultery lest they will grow up not knowing right from wrong. That would be a gross dereliction of duty.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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2. How honest should I be about the A? (they are 7 and under)

Tell your children as much as you can about their father's affair, and how it affects you. There are some counselors and lawyers that strongly disagree with me on this issue, but I have maintained that position for over 35 years without any evidence that children are hurt by it. They're hurt by the affair, not by accurate information regarding the affair. Just make sure that you don't combine accurate information with disrespectful judgments. For example, you can say that the OW has taken their father away from you, but you should not say that she is home-wrecker (or worse).

<snip>

A two year affair that's been brought out into the open is like cancer that is spreading throughout the body. While some people survive even that form of cancer, the prognosis is very bad. You're in a situation where it may be time to let go.

But remember to expose your husband's affair to the light of day. Don't hide it from anyone, including your children. Transparency is like chemotherapy. Hopefully, there is someone who is talking to your husband about the tragic decisions he's making, and can influence him to change course.

Best wishes
Willard F. Harley, Jr.

another:

Quote
While most affairs die a natural death in less than two years, there are some that take much longer to die. That's one of the primary reasons that my first rule in surviving an affair is to never see or talk to the lover again -- even if the affair seems to have died a natural death. An affair can rekindle after it seems to be over. And to guarantee complete separation between the unfaithful spouse and the lover, extraordinary precautions must be taken, such as providing radical accountability and transparency. In many cases, I've encouraged couples I've counseled to change jobs or even move to another state to help create permanent separation.

Another suggestion I make to a couple struggling to restore their marriage after one of them had an affair is to make the affair public. Everyone should know what happened -- children, relatives, friends, and especially the children and spouse of the lover -- so that the affair is exposed to the light of day. What often makes affairs appealing is that it is done in secret. Most affairs become very unappealing once everyone knows about it.

So whether an affair is a one night stand, or has been going on for years, the basic rule for ending them are the same -- extraordinary precautions to guarantee permanent separation. But I will admit that the precautions used for long-term affairs are usually more extraordinary than those used for short-term affairs. I've helped many spouses overcome affairs that have lasted over ten years, but none of them have been easy.

Best wishes
Willard F. Harley, Jr.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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I'm goig to talk to the boys tonight


BH (Me) - 38
WW - 36
Married - 16 years
2 children - 10,12
DD1 - 05/30/05 - EA suspected, W wanted space
DD2 - 07/01/05 - EA/PA discovered & confronted WW
DD3 - 07/21/05 - Further contact discovered and now ended.
11/07/05 - exposed to OMW...
07/01/07 - separated to give "space". recovery was not progressing.
09/04/07 - DDAY all over... new OM.

Patience with God is Faith.
Patience with myself is Hope.
Patience with others is Love.
FAITH REQUIRES ACTION!
Shaden #1935609 09/05/07 07:33 PM
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Shaden, please be sure and tell them that adultery is IMMORAL and why it is immoral. They need to be guided through this with your moral guidance.


"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena.." Theodore Roosevelt

Exposure 101


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