James:

Okay, it does sound like you have your waterfowl coaxial.

I think it's critically important that the eval happens before the mediation. Be great if your lawyer can make that a condition for mediation.

Be even cooler if he can do that AND get the evaluation before she moves in2 her dream house.

...I still have a hard time believing she can afford 2 do that if she's married 2 you and playing with wonderfool.

How's her credit?

If the purchase is based on hers and wonder2wit's credit, then when they break up later on, the defecation's going 2 really hit the ventilation.

Even more so if the wondercoworker and her H co-sign, or buy the place for them and the R falls apart.

-ol' 2long

I'm the one with the 700+ credit.. hers is mid 400's..

I'm -positive- her approval was pendant on my credit -before- I froze it.

It's got a security freeze on it right now.. PIN protected.. and PIN is only on hardcopy they sent to me.. I recommend this to -ANYONE- going through Divorce.

I thought of that too.. she's going to need a cosigner.. heck, she couldn't even buy a used car without me cosigning for her when we first got together her credit was so bad.

I've been down this thought process time and again since she told me she had her preapproval.. no coincidence her coworker's addy popped up on my credit report a week later. I froze it immediately.

House is in my name.. cars are in my name.. credit we used is in my name (ok.. that's bad I know)..

Pretty much everything but a 28K promisary note is in my name.. we signed -that- one together.. and the person who can pull the trigger on enforcing that baby is -not- her friend.

She came into this relationship with almost nothing.. and I'm -not- going to get left holding the bag on all the debt we piled up to build the foundation for our future that she's bailed on.

I doubt Wonderboy has credit either.. he's almost 26.. still lives at home.. is the first to get laid off of a seasonal job because his work ethic and work product are in the toilet... not to mention SIL's husband's brother is his boss.. and SIL said he will -not- be getting a callback next year for work after the crap he's pulled with her..

CoWorker's anger management challenged hubby is in the same boat.. (also likely not to get a callback next year).. I did a lookup on court cases on him.. and he owes just about every bank in town.. and has been sued by a majority of them.

Is it bad that I've got a little guilty grin on my lips right now?

Oh.. yeah.. lawyer is pretty much going to -not- agree to a mediation date until after the eval is done... he says they can try but he's been around longer and knows how to play -that- game.

Not at all.

Really, it's not vengeance, it's justice.

You sound like you're doing this, but in case you're not, make sure that splitting the credit card debt responsibilities up until you froze the accounts or she left is part of the mediation.

And if she has the more valuable car, she should be required 2 compensate you for half the difference between them... ...and take over the loan.



Whether you can save your marriage or not, her relationship with wondernitwit is going 2 end up in a massive smoking hole in the ground.

I would have never thought people could be so freakin' s2pid, except that my sister in law and mother in law have done something similar. Now, they're not even taking "yes" for an answer (yes being a cash settlement per binding settlement agreement last January to get them out of our income property so we could sell it without going 2 court 2 evict them).

From a despair.com demotivator poster:

"Stupidity: Quitters never win, winners never quit, but those who never win AND never quit are idiots."

-ol' 2long

Jamesus was born at night brother.. but not last night <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


She has the more valuable car.. but we also owe the most on it.. far as I'm concerned, she can have it. It's also the GM minivan.. which means maintenance is going to kill her.. power -everything-.. meanwhile I have the compact car with good gas mileage.. and my kickbutt stereo in.. awwww yeah.


I'm hoping for sooner than later.. I was kinda hoping she did get the house.. their relationship is pretty sheltered so long as Wondertwit's mommy is picking up the tab and putting a roof over their heads... what could go wrong?




This is so on my whiteboard first thing in the AM.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Not 2 gloat over someone's pending misery, of course (even self-inflicted misery), but I can't see it "working out" for them.

However, my own sitch with the SIL/MIL fiasco has taken 5 years 2 devolve so far. But the "worst" of it started about a year and a half ago. There's currently no end in sight, but I expect another ridiculous lawsuit at any time. Thankfully, that house is gone.

I think that, when big financial entanglements are involved, it takes longer 2 disentangle than it does 2 end an affair, probably because there are more people involved who are trying 2 hold on2 their own pile o' cash.

-ol' 2long

I hope you're right ol 2long.. I tried disagreeing with you here and there for a while.. but ultimately failed.. I hope my WW fares no better.. and in a hurry.

Thing is.. my WW is stubborn.. but I think her weakness has always been her family.. and with them pulling the plug, I have to figure the A is on life support with only his family behind them.

Now if she -does- get knocked up, this whole thing turns on its head.. and I -wager- FIL and SIL back down and unhappily accept things.. of course, I'll probably reach 'done' pretty quick at that point.. I know I was kinda seesawing on this when I thought she was before.. but I'll wait and see what God sends.. I'm pretty sure though that'll be my big flashing sign for the off ramp.

Here's to hoping God doesn't bless that relationship.. I'm ready to have another one with WW.. but it'd better be mine.

Great job .... was at work and wanted to chime in but was too busy. As for Plan A or Plan B - why not use the 180 approach for now. Can't find the link or exact bullets but it is similar to Bob Pure's loving detachment and a mix between Plan A and B.

LMAO...And I thought I had my ducks in a row!!!

Go James!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Good stuff, James

You've protected yourself and made things very uncomfortable for WW. You're doing a great job and you're standing tall. You've earned incredible amounts of respect for acting like a real man. You get to look in the mirror and see that.

Thanks for the support. You, 2 long Josie, and everyone else were right.

Without marriage and kids there's not something strong enough to tie us together.Not to mention she's not worth the trouble nor the effort because she's going to a problem the rest of her life. She'll continue to do this until she's no longer attractive.

I have an idea what will happen to her and that's more of just a thought than anything else.

I wrote it down. No way to check of course but I guess it makes things better to know she missed on me.

I'm working on me and in a two week program to help me cope with my bipolar.

rwinger: I've got the 180 stuff printed out somewhere in the ever growing pile of MarriageBuilders Board gems that I keep in the bedroom.. I need to go through all that stuff again soon.. maybe after the holidays to keep my head straight.. I've got select ones that I look at almost daily though.. might need to dig the 180 out.. but I think I'm doing a pretty good job doing what I -remember- of the 180's... I can 180 AND Plan A from a distance.. delicate balance though.

If you can find the link, that'd be great.. if not, no worries.. I -think- it's in Pepperband's sticky post at the top of the forum.. either that or in Bob Pure's toolkit.. which I think I have -all- of printed out.



Rin: Looks to me from your post that, in the glorious words of Ol 2long, your waterfowl are fairly coaxial themselves. I'm pulling for you, and keeping you in my prayers. You're absolutely right.. things aren't going to be completely peaceful until all this is settled.. but you know what? I'm doing my best not to get too bent out of shape.. I know the best shot I have is to keep a level head and look at things objectively. I'm not going in there saying she's a terrible mom.. I'll be the first one to tell anyone that she loves those kids the best way she knows how.. the problem is, she's never had the -example- in her life of what a wonderful mother really is.. and the emotional damage she's suffered in her youth makes her think that -this- is normal.. when in fact, it's abuse.



Major brotherlike ((((411)))).. Earned incredible amounts of self respect too.. and to me that's even more important right now than the respect of my WW.. you guys were right too.. it -is- a respect issue..

As for the other stuff.. It will get easier as time goes by. You're absolutely correct in that YOU aren't the one losing out here. Sounds like you're taking the reigns in your life and getting back to level.. I'm glad for you, and I'll be keeping you in my prayers and pulling for your personal recovery.

James,

You mentioned that I am ahead of you in this process...this is a fact...HOwever, I wish I had my act together, emotionally, when I was where you are today...

For this you command respect, and rightly deserve it...it's an honor to know you Sir! I'm sure that you are still on that rollercoaster and had your day days...dealing with the loneiness...as I have read...

But I wanted to say that those of us on the outside looking in, supporting you, praying for you and your family...see so much more than you do and I for one am extremely proud of you!

LOL...I'm also going to have to keep in mind 2long's phrase...I LOVE that!

Have an awesome blessed day!!

Oh, on another note, a few weeks ago, the boys were having behavior issues, during our stay with my Spon., I enacted a reward system...you know those glass colored pebbles that you can use for just about anything? Well, each of the them have a mason jar, and they earn pebbles for conduct and homework...

In addition to this, if they do something without asking, or without complainting, I reward them with a pebble or two...when the jar is filled they are allowed to pick a place that they really want to go...

We were having trouble keeping it going once we moved back into the house, it really was a struggle for me b/c I wasn't seeing results and my mind wasn't on it...Now, the jars sit on the coffee table, and i've been rewarding ALOT here lately...LOL...not sure that it has something to do with Christmas but I can't read that into the equation...

Thing is it's working...and that's all that matters, YS's jar is almost full and after months of hard work on all of our part, we will be taking a fun trip to somewhere soon...

I mentioned this b/c I struggled with my decision to leave POWS and saw how it was affecting and I blamed myself alot for this...now I'm not saying that you are doing this by any means...point is it does get better, it's just going to take some time...but I KNOW, YOU KNOW THIS! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Aww Rin.. that's awesome, the jars and the pebbles idea is a -great- positive reinforcement. I think I may just do that.

As an aside to that.. get -yourself- a jar and start filling it. It'll be a good affirmation to yourself of the good things.. and when it's full, treat -yourself- to a fun trip out. I think I'll try doing the same.

Things seem to be getting better day by day, and you're absolutely right.. there are those down days where I just feel lonely and have those self pity moments. They aren't as overwhelming as they were at first, and they pass quicker.. but not quick enough just yet. There's still much work to be done. This is a good thing though, because without goals, personal or otherwise.. we have little to reach for.

The respect thing seems to have started kind of suddenly.. the shift that is, and I think a lot of it is that I've found respect for myself again recently. I'm glad others can see it, and perhaps that's what I need to solidify the personal boundaries that come with self respect.. regardless, it makes me feel very validated that others are seeing this change too and responding. Truly though, the glory and praise for that belongs to God. I don't know that I'm doing things so differently now than before.. I've just been able to more clearly identify within myself the reasons and motivations behind my stand for my marriage, my children, and my family. I think even my mom has noticed.

I was out to dinner last night with mom.. and to provide a little background, my mom has -never- liked my wife. She says frequently that the 4.5 years I was with her was some of the hardest, most unhappy years of her life. It didn't help that WW blamed a lot of our marital problems in her parting shots on my mom.. nor the fact that mom was the one physically there to pick up the shattered pieces and help me start rebuilding my life. There's a lot of anger there. But last night I noticed a change.. see, my keeping the door open for my wife is very upsetting for my mom, and I continue to defend my wife to her almost on a daily basis now. Last night though was different.. mom and I talked a little about 'what if's'.. if WW does turn around and come home.. Mom actually brought it up, talking about things she feels we'd need to do.. ways she thinks would help us to break some of the destructive cycles in our marriage. She spoke in terms of things and problems that she had with my father.. traits she sees in me and is hoping I will work on. It was really insightful.. we talked about forgiveness, letting go of anger, the value of family and faith.. It's a conversation I never expected to have with my mom. I think, as hard as it would be for her.. even she is starting to respect my stand, even if she doesn't completely agree with or understand it.

I honestly wish my wife could have heard that conversation... it would have likely opened her eyes a great deal about the kind of woman my mother is.. as judgemental and 'old school' as she is.. she has a mothers love.. even for my wife.

LOL...AH, so NOW we know who you take after!!! LMAO...

you mentioned the need to be right and learning to admit when you were wrong...I just had to throw that one in there to pick on you some this morning!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

A jar for myself...I did have one...felt I didn't NEED it...the kids wanted me to have one too...Now, there is a lovely glass vase between their jars, I view that as myself and all that I cherish for them, my dreams, my values, my morals, everything...I give my pebbles to them...and once their jar is full I get all of them back...that's my reward...I get to treat myself ALL the time...for me it's the gift of seeing them accomplish that...watching them work SOO hard...I couldn't ask for more...

I'm so happy that you brought that up...I never really thought of it as indepth as I have this morning...I get more out of it than I thought I did...I do know that having my own jar was not working for ME...

What warms my heart SOOOO mcuh these days, is I HEAR OFTEN and get hugged OFTEN (and I'm tearing up) That I'm the greatest mom in the world...i'm sure that you can understand that one...there wasn't alot of hugging when I grew up and I didn't want it to me that way in my family...It was for the longest time...the quality of life has improved SOOO much...

See I asked Jesus to come into my heart and help me one night after D-day, laying next to WH, I was so lost and didn't know what to do...remember those days right after?

I was raised Catholic and had done this from time to time, i wanted it but for whatever reason I wasn't ready...I didn't know where else to turn...

There's more behind it but that's the just of the story...oh, I lost my religious foundation one week before D-day, my grandfather, we buried him on Good Friday...Easter was his favorite time of the year... so I had alot to grieve and it was my bottom...he wasn't there to help me along the path, i had to do it own my own...find my own way...

My D will be final on Good Friday...I don't believe that things happen for no reason...so I'm sharing what you get out of my story, if anything, is purely up to you and others...but I can say that because of the way things have happened, I will always have my Higher power in my life...

James, thank you for being part of the MB family, talking with you has reminded me of a ton of wonderful things and I NEEDED that this week...My Grandfather would have been 82 this Friday...A celebration indeed...I know that he's looking down and that he's proud!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

LOL.. it's true that I tend to HANG ON to my initial judgements of people, and don't let go. I get that from mom, but the perfectionist/my way/my time thing is all my Dad.. even my frustration level when things aren't done my way/right way comes from him.

Thing is.. I -hated- him as a kid growing up.. lost him to Diabetes when I was 16 (long story.. I -found- him.. was trained in CPR through Boy Scouts.. and kept him 'going' until the paramedics came.. I still have flashbacks of that night)... As I get older though, there's a lot that I admire about the man.. and I -thank God- that he was so hard on me. I've seen what a lot of my friends have turned into with parents who looked the other way.. and it's one of those things that WW and I didn't agree on.. that I was tough sometimes on the kids.. didn't let them slip on their chores and responsibilities.. she still holds that against me, particularly where DSD is concerned.

I got a lot of good from both my parents.. and a lot of not so good too.. working on that.. it's difficult to sort out when it's all you've ever known. I have a feeling my WW is having that same problem.. but I don't think she's -trying- to sort it out.. or has identified maybe that her dad's commitment level to marriage might have been just a bit off.. and considering that it just -might- be a lesson he's learned and -why- he isn't supporting her in this decision.


What I remember.. is her letting me hold her the way I used to in the beginning.. me on my back, her curled up at my side with her head on my shoulder.. that was two days before she left me.. but it was the night we had the 'talk'.. I remember her crying..

My 'aha' moment with God came a few weeks later.. I was angry with Him for letting this happen.. I was angry with her for betraying me and our kids.. I was broken inside.

While attending PreCana with my wife.. I remember a conversation she and I had on our 1/2 hour trip home from the weekend class.. we were talking about our concept of what Heaven and ****** is like... I always have maintained that my concept of ****** is the complete and total absence of God.. that -distance- from God.. I can say with absolute certainty.. I felt like I was in ****** for the first few weeks... I am still certain that ****** is a landscape that reflects my emotional starting point the first few weeks after D-Day.


Wow.. there's a lot of symbolism in that..

There's a saying that people come into our lives for a 'reason', a 'season' or a 'lifetime'.. I have asked God many times throughout this process if my WW came into my life for a 'season'.. and left to be the 'reason' I came back to Him. She brought me back to faith when we married.. after a long absence.. but somehow we did not sustain it.. but now, I feel a connection I've never felt even growing up in a Baptist school.. I'm with God to stay this time.. I firmly believe that.. and if that is the 'reason' for my WW in my life.. then I'll have gained so much for having known her.


And hey.. Rin.. I should be thanking you.. I'm fortunate to have found such wonderful people here to share my story with.. to read and gather hope from.. and to provide what parts of myself I can spare these days to. I know your Grandfather would be proud of you.. and I like to think my Dad.. the old hardass.. would be proud of me too.

Part of me though thinks he'd probably be kicking my [censored] and telling me to move on.. but I also know that if I'd looked him in the eye and told him what I told others here a few days back.. he'd have respected it.. and that's important to me.

I completely agree with you...My GrandF was the most influencial person in my life...I was removed from my home and had to live with him for a few years growing up...it was a lost that I didn't have time to grieve with the timing of WH's announcement...

So I've been dealing with that alos the past two years...

like you...similiar in my thinking...I may have lost my M, BUT I HAVE GAINED SOOOO MUCH MORE...and that's not going to change...I have no ill will for STBX...i also believe that OP come into our lives for whatever reason and the purpose has been served...I didn't see that when i was there...thigh high in the marsh and muck...only now can I look back and SEE what I didn't see before...

not having my GrandF there to turn too, having to deal with Affairland on my own, growing...renewing my spirit but I firmly believe it had died...H*ll is on earth in my thinking...pretty much the same concept as you have...

I AM HARD on my kids, especially RIGHT NOW, by this I mena the time in their lives...I believ that if I'm tough RIGHT NOW, that later down the road...they will be able to make better decisions, BE better people BECAUSE I AM hard now...

I UNDERSTAND about your dad...LOL...I can relate to where he was coming from...I'm motivated by wanting the best fro my boy's and if that means that they hate my now, then that's what it will take...but the big picture, they wil see later, when the time is right for them...all I have to do is keep laying that foundation...they may lose theie way along the path but they will also find their way back...

I was lost but my GrandF laid that foundation...so like I said If it took me losing my M to find the path that God had already laid out for me, then i just have to accept that...Lord knows if wasn't my first choice...and sometimes I still hope and wish that somewhere down the line perhaps STBX and I will reunite...better people...lessons learned...but if that's not the case then so be it!

He knows better than I do what's good for me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

OH, you know the think that sticks out in my mind, with my Stepdad is him saying: "You don't have to love me BUT YOU WILL RESPECT ME!" he was a [email]hard@ss[/email] too, and even with the abuse, i have forgiven him and I do respect him despite our past...we are as close as we will be today...or i should say as close as I can allow him to be today! Either way it works!

Ahh.. now that's someone who gets it.

I doubt WW will.. or that she understands even on the surface where I was coming from. It'll be something we have to work on together and POJA if/when she comes home. I know it's a big part of her 'justifications' right now.

God's path for us is not always easy to see.. typically we're only shown the next step. A friend of mine though gave me a thought that may help with this. There's apparently a belief out there that before we are born, we sit down with God and map out our lives -with- Him.. I suppose it's kind of reassuring to know that we had some part in shaping our futures spiritually from the very beginning.

I don't know how much stock I put in that theory.. but it is something to consider.

I hope one day I'm close with DSD again.. I hope that somehow her memories of me aren't clouded by everything that is going on now. I only want to be there for her in whatever capacity she wants me to.. I never asked her to call me Daddy.. she chose that.. I chose to become that person to her.. for her.. I'll always have a special place in my heart for that little girl.

hum...I don't know if I can accept sitting down with God and mapping it out together...cause he certainly knows better than I do...that's a hard one for me to swallow too!

I know that's a hard one for you too...with DSD, you know in your mind whether you have been a positve influence in her life or not...so should you be unable to have her in your life for wahtever reason, you will have to accept the fact that you did the best you could for her with the time that you had...

Oh, issue with OS: Teacher called...let me deal with that!

Yeah.. I think I can say with confidence that I had a positive influence on DSD. FIL and SIL see it.. I think even WW sees it, but just won't acknowledge it to herself. Maybe after having a break and having to do it herself she'll see a little clearer.

I'm trying to keep a positive outlook on it. I'm not going anywhere, and should that little girl -ever- need me.. I'm going to be right there for her. She owns that part of me.

Funny how life can snap us back to the present. Hope everything is OK with DS.. those calls from the teacher can be real eye poppers.

James,

Yesterday I got a call from the principal where my son goes. He had a horrible day and you are so right, our schools are witnessing the pain that this situation is causing our kids. I am sure like my schools they are caring and doing everything they can.

Tell me what your understanding of Psalm 23 is?