My H's XOP asked him straight up, "what would 22dev do if she found out about us?" He replied, "probably shoot me".

I asked him why would he risk throwing away 30 yrs of marriage for this tramp, his reply was "I didn't think I'd get caught, I ended it, and never thought you'd find out"

This is where the wayward mindset comes into play. They are bullet proof and too smart too get caught..the arrogance of it all! Just proves that there should be one of those mental dx thingy's for the waywards, cause I think they have a form of temporary insanity while actively engaged in the activity. They are incapable of seeing what they are doing and incapable of visualizing the aftermath.

The takeaway from this thread, IMO, is that if one is going to CHEAT, he/she should be prepared to take the risk of violence. That is a JOB HAZARD of cheating. So, if you are not prepared to get beat up, you might want to rethink your plans. If you are willing to take that risk, then you have no one to blame but yourself. The threat of violence never justifies adultery, nor does it entitle one to hide the affair from the spouse.

This comes up a lot when talking about 'penalties' for adultery and whether or not they really help (and how much people are really willing to stomach with regard to penalties).

I guess that's what makes MB principles so valuable. We know what doesn't work: threats or fear of violence

We know what does work meeting EN's, POJA, RH, and lots of quality time making each other a priority

Whether someone is "really" scared or not .. doesn't matter as much as creating an environment for a good marriage which has to include absolute safety and radical honesty both of the things the good Dr. mentioned in the article I stole from ML's copy/paste in her previous post.

Mys

I agree mel.

I would never threaten someone to stop them from having an affair...although I am sure I could be driven under the right circumstances to "respond" to an affair in a very aggressive way...

I can say that the wood chipper and freezer idea entered my mind a few times...and I despise abuse. Very good people are driven to horrible acts by infidelity. I have carried the bodies and regretted having to handcuff the "criminal."

Interesting. You and I came away with completely different takeaway's from this conversation.

I would say that nothing justifies violence towards your spouse. I don't care how angry you are - abuse is not justified. Being prepared to accept abuse is about as ridiculous as being prepared to accept your spouse to stray if you don't meet a few of their EN's.

Bottom line: You are responsible for your actions.

Takeaway: Use MB principles which do not contain violence or expectations of violence or fears for your safety to build a strong, affair proof marriage.

Mys

Be assured I never said any such thing. Saying that violence may occur as a result of adultery is not a justification, it is a simple true fact. Wouldn't you agree?



I believe that is what I just said.

Ideation is not action.

It's your behavioral choices that determine whether or not you are abusive (or wayward or whatever).

We are not victims of our fantasies no matter how compelling they are unless you're mentally ill (in which case all bets are off).

Mys

Mike I understand what you are trying to say. I have a feeling I could easily become violent given the right circumstance. However, I think it is just as unfair to say an affair "drives someone to violence", as it would be to say that marital problems "drives someone to an affair".
Just as an affair is a CHOICE (albeit a bad one) violence is also a (bad)CHOICE. If I go off my rocker and beat or stab or shoot hubby, I bear 100% full responsibility for that, same as he bears 100% responsbility for choosing to have an affair.There's no excuse for either.

Would you agree that this applies to women as well?

actually the courts and laws disagree with you. there are circumstances which make a crime more or less excusable. And a "crime of passion" cannot even remotely be compared to a decision to have an affair because of marital problems. One is based on a sudden out of character response to a trauma...the other is not. Now...tell me that a spouse walks in and catches his wife screwing another man and the IMMEDIATELY goes out and screws around...I will agree that he was driven to that by his wife...he is still responsible for his own actions but there are mitigating circumstances.

n. in criminal law, conditions or happenings which do not excuse or justify criminal conduct, but are considered out of mercy or fairness in deciding the degree of the offense the prosecutor charges or influencing reduction of the penalty upon conviction

Justification for what?

There's no justification for either violence or adultery.

You said:


I could easily rewrite that as:


Neither statement makes any sense to me.


Wouldn't YOU agree?


I've mentioned at least twice that I was making this a gender neutral problem. It applies to both genders equally.

Look Mel, let's make this real easy because you and I both know we can circle this all day. It gets tiring.

The basic question is whether or not your believe MB principles support an expectation of being beaten up by your spouse or support violence in any way regardless of what your spouse did or does.

My answer would be: NO. It DOES NOT.

If you think Dr. Harley has advocated violence towards a spouse or OP, then please find me the reference where that happened. I claim one does not exist. This is a MB board and I am asserting basic MB principles here.




Mys

Yes, it does.

The thing is that crimes of passion tend to be 'without ideation.' Once you start planning the thing (go out, buy the freezer and the wood chipper) you've stepped away from that defense.

Mys

perhaps....but not necessarily. I happen to have a wood chipper and a freezer...the criminal act is the murder...abuse of corpse is what happens afterwards....

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

*chuckles*

All right, you've got me there.

Remember, I said ML wouldn't advocate violence as a strategy. I never said YOU wouldn't.

*nudges MEDC playfully*

Mys

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

huh? No one has ever CLAIMED that Dr. Harley advocated violence, so I have no idea what you are talking about. Saying that violence CAN happen is not a justification, it is a true fact. As I said before, if you see that someone has advocated violence, you should address that person directly. So far, you have not produced anyone who has so I have no idea what this is about. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Been there, done that.

*points at MEDC and his freezer/woodchipper* <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> (KIDDING!!)

On a more somber note:

Yes, Mel, that is a point I made earlier, too. I do think we do need to worry about violence in these situations whether the WS is scared or not. It does happen. It is reality - and 'being scared' or not isn't insulation.

I would hope that all our advice fervently keeps the safety of all individuals paramount - regardless of what our personal inclinations lead us to believe about what people 'deserve.'

I think we'd be a better society for it. I also think that would be some pretty "common sense."

Enough now. I think this thread has served more than it's purpose... back to helping ppl.

I have homework to do anyway. From now on I'll only respond to people who can help me write a program to reverse a linked list in linear time O(n).

Mys