Hi there

I can understand all too well what you are going through. The first 6 months post d day were the worst in my life. I didnt think I could keep going on, it was all too overwhelming.

It helped me alot to read. I read so many books and marked them up for my H to read with me at a later time. I so wanted him to read with me but I knew he wasnt in a place where he could do that. So, I did it. alone.

I would recommend After the affair and How can i forgive you by Janis A Spring as well as Not just friends by Shirley Glass. Another great one is Torn Asunder by Scott Carder.

They were my lifelines as I didnt find MB until considerably later.

If you are counseling w Steve, you are in the best shoes possible. I wish we had done that out of the gate and not waited for a year like we had. We would have avoided alot of pitfalls.

One other thing that helped me was I bought an egg timer. I would set it for 15-20 minutes and then during that time - I had myself a pity party. I would cry, scream, gnash my teeth. When it went off I would get up, wash my face , put on some makeup I cried off and get on with life. I continued to plan A the heck out of my WH. Many a time I remember rubbing his back and thinking increduously "Im rubbing HIS back??? Im telling him that I understand how much HE is hurting????" W. T. F ???? However - it worked.

While your W is still foggy - there is little hope that she will understand your pain or even be able to address it and help you. The best you can do it follow Steve's plan, get one of your own for self care and hunker down.

You will see the light at the end of the tunnel and things CAN get better.

Peace to you

K

Thanks JK,

I think I'll try your pity party but without the makeup and crying. It can't hurt any worse. I'm looking down that tunnel and don't see a glimmer of light yet but I'm hoping it will come.

The latest is that WW doesn't want to write an NC letter. She says it is too humiliating since she told OM that there would be no strings attached after she came back to me. She admits that she was intoxicated with pleasure from the affair but says she is dealing with the withdrawl so far. She says she has had NC, but I think it is only a matter of time before she will try to contact him. Any hints on how to get through this. She has been apart from him for three weeks now, so I was hoping she would be partway through withdrawl by now but I'm thinking not after discussing her feelings with her last night.

To all MBs,

I really want to express my appreciation to all who have responded to my posts. I really can't imagine how I would have survived from D-Day (10-26-07) until now without your help.

I've been reading as much as I can here on the site and from the books and what I've learned is that as much as I'd like to speed recovery we are only at the beginning of a long path. I've decided that the best thing I can do for the present is to educate myself, improve myself, and demonstrate what a wonderful H I can be to WW while she is still in the fog and WD. I realize now that wishful thinking won't accomplish anything nor will negative thoughts or dwelling on what's happened.

Can anyone point me to information about recovering from withdrawl? I am still apart from WW two nights per week for work reasons and I want to help her if I can even though we're apart. I'm pretty sure it will occur to WW how she can contact OM without my knowledge pretty soon. Should I enlist the help of her friends in preventing this? I'm thinking in terms of an intervention for addicts or alcoholics where friends and relatives pitch in to help through recovery. How should I respond if there is backsliding? (My initial thought is Plan D but that is just self-preservation).

Is anyone out there still reading my posts? I haven't had a response in awhile and am feeling a little abandoned.

I guess the issues I have right now in order of importance are:

1. Is WW's reluctance to write NC letter a deal breaker?

2. How can I help WW through withdrawl? Is it even possible for me to help?

3. How can I quit obsessing about WW and OM? I thought it was going away but I woke up in the middle of the night thinking about the A again which makes about 25 out of the last 30 nights since D-Day.

4. Is it a good idea for WW to read my posts here? I told her that what I write here will probably not help her and may hinder R since this is the place I come to when I have doubts and fears and just want to rant. Opinions?

I guess things could be a lot worse than what has occurred so far since D-Day as RIF and Big K have pointed out. If I just need to calm down, feel free to tell me so.

Thanks to all.

It would be a deal breaker for me...but only you can make that call.

As far as obsessing...it will take a long time...and you shouldn't even consider the work started until after she has sent the NC letter and totally commits to recovery.

Yes, calm down. No, your wife should not read here. Not yet.

Withdrawal is just something she's going to have to go through. I would be cautious though and not allow her to use withdrawal as an excuse to avoid you. Not saying she is, just saying I could see it happening. True recovery will not begin until she is through her withdrawal period, so don't expect much until then.

You will have these thoughts for a long time. I still have them very regularly. They are not as sharp and angry as they were, but they are still there. Its going to take time, lots of it. Don't LB your W when they come to you.

Refusal to write a NC letter would have been a deal breaker for me. I did not have to deal with a withdrawal period though so I would suggest you allow your W to get through that before pressing the issue.

No, I would not encourage her to read here right now. However, the fact that she knows you post here and are getting advice probably means that she will.

Calm down! Everything you're going through is normal, all the feelings and doubts and all that, its all normal. Give yourself a break from it.

What's so important about this job 1/2 way across the world that takes so much time away from your family anyhow? Is it all you're qualified to do? What kind of pay cut are you talking about to engage in a lifestyle that might suit you, your wife, and your marriage a bit better? Just wondering.

Thanks guys for the replies. I only have a few minutes to respond before I have to drive two hours to be at home with WW for our next counseling session with Steve.

The job only took me away from my wife completely for the last year when our son became seriously ill in the States and WW went home to tend to him. If you go to my first post at the top of this thread you can read the sad story of our year mostly apart.

I'm qualified to do a lot of jobs but working over here for one year is worth about the same as four in the U.S.and until the last few years was fun and exciting. We have traveled all over the world and experienced sights that most people only dream of. Our plan was to be here for another couple of years and then be done with me working for good. I may try to transfer from the remote location where I am now for good if we can't work out this separation issue which right now is down to two nights per week.

In retrospect, I think WS was distancing herself emotionally and geographically so she could "do what she wanted" which included getting attention from males outside our M which has been an issue for a few years now. I still haven't processed exactly what makes her tick and I suspect that is omething we will working on as long as we are together.

I guess the answers you guys are giving me is what I already knew in my heart. I think I am calming down slightly. A month on adrenaline and 4 hours sleep per night could kill a person so i guess at some time you kind of numb which is probably where I am.

Gotta go.

Thanks.

Well here's an update. WW now admits that she is a serial cheater but with OM that have been unusually unsatisfying to her. She revealed last night what I had long suspected which was that she had tried to seduce one of her colleagues at work a few years ago while I was out of town. However, the guy was so drunk he couldn't consumate the A. The guy to his credit, who is already in a an A relationship with some other guy's wife, said it would be best if they just broke it off before it went any further and left WW. This is what has been bothering me for a few years now becuase I could sense that something was wrong but couldn't figure out what. WW assumed that I would Plan D her if I knew about this A which isn't necessarily true.

So here we are working through our EN surveys and trying to find a future. I guess I need to ask everyone does WW have a conscience? Is there something about her pysche that makes her unusually prone to A, or is she just one more of the more mundane WSs that start A relationships to meet some unfulfilled EN. Lord knows I have
tested every LB there is over the years including some pretty severe verbal abuse at times which I truly regret but can't remove from our M history. WW says she accepts full responsibility for initiating the A and is now willing to fulfill all her obligations to me including NC letter, but prying the truth out of her about everything has been a real trial, I guess because she has become so adept at lying and hiding.

Please feel free to offer your opinions about our future or if you believe we have one.

Hey Hurt,


I suspect that she does, and she just chose to ignore it during her A.

The good thing now, is that she is in counseling with Steve!



I think you both have a great opportunity here to learn from Steve and apply the lessons to your M... If you are BOTH willing to do the work put before you, and you are BOTH committed to rebuilding the M, then I think you have an excellent chance to rebuild.

Your description of 'pulling information' from your W is fairly common... I had to do the same thing with Mrs. RIF until I learned how to control my anger when she answered my questions... It's a painful process, but you CAN work through it.

Semper Fi,

RIF

MB folks, I am having extremely bad vibes about whether WW has finally told the truth about all her past A's. There were three that she has confessed to, the current one which is over for now for geographic reasons, one two years ago that was never consumated but not because she didn't want it to be, that I learned about then (This didn't happen also for geographic reasons), and one four years ago with a drunken co-worker after a party that I was out of town for that the OM broke off because he didn't want to proceed. The last two OMs, WW barely had met before initiating the A's but she admits she was attracted to the coworker for awhile before trying something with him. She claims she also took up with a coworker more than thirty years ago before we were married but she is kind of hazy about the details in terms of whether we engaged or not at the time if that makes a difference.

The fact that she has hidden all these A's except the one two years ago is sending off extreme warning signals in my mind. She says she wants to recover our M and we are in MC with Steve and are working through the MB exercizes. I just have very strong doubts about her truthfulness.

Opinions and guidance anyone? How can I know when she is done lying? So far all the facts took dynamite to get out of her except for the current affair which I discovered from being nosy after not believing her stories for why she wanted to stay in the U.S. for so long after I left at the end of August. The agony is continuing as long as I can't believe her completely. Would it be worth it for me to confront the former coworker who is still around and who I am well acquainted with.

Hi Hurt,

To answer your questions... you really can't know if she's telling the truth about the past. I had to deal with the same issue. For now, all you can do is focus on the fact that your W HAS confessed these past A's, and that she IS in counseling.

The fact that she is taking a bit of pulling and prodding to provide answers to your questions is actually quite 'normal'... especially for A's that occurred many years ago (at least my situation was very similar).

You and your W are counseling with the best there is, so listen to Steve's advice and follow it to the letter... Everything that you are sharing with us seems to be right on track with what I dealt with...

You guys CAN work through all of this...

Semper Fi,

RIF

What about talking to the most recently revealed OM, the one from 3-1/2 years ago? Is this worthwhile or of no value?

Hi Hurt,

What do you hope to accomplish by talking with the OM? Do you want to "verify" answers with him that your W has told you? If that is your goal, then I wouldn't bother wasting your time... the OM will most likely lie to you or tell you some other nonesense to stir up your emotions.

I confronted one of the OM that I suspected of having an A with Mrs. RIF... of course he lied to my face and so did Mrs. RIF... You can't trust the OM, so I wouldn't waste ANY time with him.

As for your W, you need to accept her words at face value, then watch her actions... if her actions are matching her words over a very long (several consecutive months to a year or two) time, then you will slowly be able to start trusting her words again.

I say focus on the present... focus on the things that your W is doing right now to help rebuild the M: No contact, counseling with Steve, reading MB books, etc. Anything else is just a distraction and you don't need any distractions.

Semper Fi,

RIF

Thanks again RIF for the counsel. I am really struggling with the honesty issue with WW. So far, at every opportunity she has had to tell the truth, she has chosen to tell a lie or withold the truth. It has me wondering whether it is worth trying to carry on with her at all.

She says she didn't want to tell me about the affair with the co-worker because she was afraid I would divorce her if I knew. I told her I can handle the truth, its the lies that are tearing me up. Part of my problem is that when we were in counseling two years ago she lied about it then to both me and our counselor, she keeps lying about what went on most recently and has spent considerable effort covering up her tracks even after I knew about it which has me wondering why. Since she is the only one that knows, if I still have doubts about what she tells me I don't see how we can continue. In every instance so far, until I trap her in a lie (or ambush her as she puts it), she has chosen covering-up and lying rather than truthfulness and openess. I'd like a sign from her that she wants to be honest about her past. So far all her motions about NC and the NC letter are tepid at best as well.


With regard to the OM, he is in a position of authority and I can threaten him with exposure to his employers to compell him to be truthful. It would help me to verify at least if what WW is telling me about the ending of that A is true or not. That guy lives in our neighborhood over here and could be still carrying on with WW for all I know.

So do ignore all my doubts? So far all my instincts have been valid. I'll be talking to Steve in afew hours and I hope he can give me some ideas about how to carry-on.

Do not threaten exposure to gain something. In the states that is blackmail and is most likely frowned upon where you are at now.

If you live close to an affair partner there, you should move. That is the only way to assure NC. Move.

Ask yourself...how long are you going to be willing to live with lies. Set a boundary for your life and follow it. Your wife continues to be exceptionally disrespectful to you....so, only you can decide when enough is enough. Assume that she is still actively involved in an affair until she is being honest with you. More often than not, that assumption would be correct.

and I would venture a guess that if she has admitted to three or four and she is still lying, that number is likely going to be 12-15. The nature of liars is to start letting bits and pieces out....the only sure way to know if she is telling the truth is a polygraph.
Give her the option of a polygraph to confrm her honesty or divorce....watch her reaction...it will be priceless.

Hey Hurt,

You will get all sorts of "advice" from these boards... Hopefully some of it is useful...

Some of it is not, and will only serve to confuse you and make you doubt your actions...

Your W is counseling with Steve and she is in good hands... Any advice that is contrary to what Steve is telling you is NOT ment to help you.

Listen to Steve.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Semper Fi,

RIF

yeah, because she couldn't possibly lie to a man on the phone right?

RIF gives good advice...********** Hurt, you should doubt your actions until they are resulting in the outcomes that you need.

A polygraph would get to the truth a lot faster than anything else here.

I liken infidels to criminals...their actions are very similar as is their morality...when you know about one crime, there are usually five you don't know about.

Read SMB or other threads to find out how much a WS holds on to before finally coming clean. Or ask RIF if his wife confessed to all of her affairs at once or if they trickled out.

Your wife is a known liar and you should NEVER take her word at face value...************* If you really want to find out the value of what I have told you, just go to SMB's thread and judge for yourself.

MEDC, who is SMB? I doubt if any rules about blackmail apply here and if they did it would be in some entirely different way. Adultery over here is a capital offense.

RIF, did Mrs. RIF confess all at once or did they trickle out as with what my WW is doing now?

If we leave here, we would be going closer to her most recent OM, who she is now going through withdrawl over. That won't help. I doubt the guy here has anything going on with WW since he is in a regular A relationship with one of my co-workers over here and has been for a long time. There's some really strange deal going on with that. I think the BS approves of the A.

I think for now I'll hear what Steve has to say and try to follow his advice. I like the idea of a polygraph though. Unfortunately, I have no idea how to obtain one over here.

If anyone else has an opinion, I'd welcome hearing it. And thanks to both RIF and MEDC for offering help. You've both given me a lot to think about.

SMB + Sexymamabear
Her husband is TST.

Good luck.