I don't know how. I this OM has really got under my skin. The whole situation si f___ up. I mean I know this guy. At times it drives me crazy. This A__ was at my wedding, has been at my house for my kid's b-day.

I feel so frustrated...

You need to think long and hard about allowing her to take your kids out of the family home to persue an extramarital affair. I would suggest doing anything possible to prevent that from happening, up to and including filing for divorce.

You see, if you let her leave and take the kids, and six months down the road she files for divorce, she's going to use the fact that she has had uncontested primary custody since you separated in the divorce proceedings. Don't allow her to set that precedent.

Would changing shifts allow you to care for the kids in the evening? If so, then change shifts, not for her, but for your kids. You have the moral high ground here, theres no reason for her to take your kids off into affair fantasy land. If she wants to leave the home, then there are consequences to that behavior, one of those should be her choosing to abandon her children.

Hi Sonny,

OK, tell us what you know about this OM... Then let some of the others here help you come up with a PLAN for you to expose...

I know it's frustrating and your emotions are all over the place... but you've GOT to get a hold of yourself here and start working on a plan...

Semper Fi,

RIF

OM is a "Chistian". Everyone knows him as such. (the irony). He's been married about 15 yrs and has an adobted DD. His wife and I have talked and are for the most part on the same page. She did the mistake of kicking him out when I came up to her and told her what I knew about the A. At this point she is unsure if she wants him back. She has been suspecting of the A longer than me. He has older parents and I don't think they can influece him much. His brother is very upset along with some of his close family friends. I feel that if OM W were to want him back she can. I think that my WW and OM eventualy will not match. There are too many diffrences, cluturally, and lifestyles.

He is white, WW is latina immigrant. He grew up privlaged my WW grew up very humbly. My WW is english as second language (esl). He went to private Uni. My WW attended public school all of her life including Uni. They like differnt music. They like differant activities. The only thing that they have in common that I see is that they both like to talk/listen. My WW has a lot of issues that she needs to express and he has been the ear to all that.

How can I use is. to break them up.

Expose the A to his pastor.


This is usually the case any way. This is why you do a strong Plan A to show her how good life with you can be, and then follow that with a dark Plan B to save enough love for her that when she comes back and asks to return you have the energy and desire to work things out.


Plan A, followed by Plan B if needed.

Remember that neither Plan A or Plan B is trying to fix the marriage. They are both about making the marriage a place for the WS to return to. Plan A fixes YOU. Plan B protects YOU. Recovery is the hard work of fixing the marriage, but you have to get there first.

And it ain't over till you say it is, no matter what she say or does, even divorce ends it only if you let it. She could return next week or two years from now. The question is what will you do to make that more likely? (Answer: Plan A, then Plan B)

Mark

Sonny,

You are getting great advice listen to it.

Permit me to repeat it for you.

First, expose the affair to his church, even his place of employment is a target. Make sure his family knows, your W's family knows.

Then take the day shift so that YOU can be with your kids at night. Your #1 job is being a good/great father to them. Don't let her take the kids, keep them at home where they have friends and are comfortable. If she wants to leave, then let her, she is a big girl and she can make those decisions. She also gets to live with the consequences of those decisions, which is limited time with the kids and YOU becoming the major person in their lives.

Sonny, people who have an affair do NOT count the cost until much later. Have faith in that. Protect your kids, protect yourself, don't worry about OM other than to expose this affair, and let your W make her own decisions, she is going to anyway. After all she decided to have an affair.

Have faith in yourself and invest in your children. You will NEVER regret that.

God Bless,

JL

Expose the A to his pastor.

His BS has done this already and it was no effect.

That you have seen yet.

And this stops you from going to his pastor as well how? Perhaps his W told the pastor and when asked OM said, "I've been worried about her lately. She's been hallucinating or somethings and...blah-blah-blah" But if you go to him as well, then the pastor steps back and says, Hey, Dude, what's this all about?" (Either that or he's a poor excuse for a pastor.)

This is why exposure has to be swift, sudden and overwhelming. The less time the affair partners have to give it a friendly spin the better it will do what it is supposed to do, which is to get other people to begin putting pressure on them to stop what they are doing.

And it isn't one giant weight that does the trick, but one straw at a time piled high on the camel that breaks its back over time. Lot's of exposure to everyone within the sphere of influence of the WS and OP are potential allies.

Trust me, it is having an effect. Unless the guy has had a lobotomy recently, the fact that his pastor does not see him with the same respect as before is giving him fits when he thinks about it.

This is the whole point of exposure. You don't expose and expect the WS to come running home within a couple hours begging for forgiveness. It's not gonna happen!

What happens through exposure is that the fantasy of the affair is infringed on just a little bit and the affair partners have no choice but to begin to examine what they are doing. It isn't a gale that blows away the fog in an instant, but a gentle breeze that slowly begins to cause the fog to swirl around and give brief glimpses of reality.

I have to tell you that unless she has threatened to kill you or something similar, you haven't been exposing to enough people fast enough or to the right people. This is the ONE thing that if done properly evokes a huge reaction from a WS because you are interfering with the source of their crack! They are addicted and when you get in the way you will experience the full weight of their wrath. If you aren't getting that, you aren't getting in the way enough.

NOTHING in this will be instant gratification. It is not a sprint, but a marathon, in fact it is more like a triathlon since you have to first get the affair ended, then get a commitment from WW to return to the marriage and then and only then, start to work on the real issues and healing.

Mark

The thing is that I am not sure that he was really close with the pastor. Ever since the A was discorvered he stopped going to that church.

What else can I do on OM side? Should I email him? Should I meet him? Should I bumb into them while they are on thier "dates". How else can I bring pressure to them. And how can I do this without making love busters. I currently doing things for WW to meet EN. If I get too agresive wouldn't that erase all of the EN points I have done?

Its so hard to be cool with WW when I know what she is doing with OM.

Well WW is moving out this weakend. I have mixed feelings. In a way I am looking forward to seeing her leave. I am Hurt. Evey rejection from her just adds to that pain. I don't want to loose my family.

I need some advice on how to continue Plan A whaile she is out of the house. How can I give EN if I cant reach her. We are still going to see each other everyday(kids). But it will be just a couple of minutes. I really don't know how are things going to work out. I think she will enjoy her new found freedom and will never want to come back.

Did you take the morning shift opening? If not you should take it as it will give more time with children and enable you to protect them.

Are you insisting upon a 50-50 plan for the kids at a minimum? I think you should be demanding more.

In a few weeks you should consider Plan B to protect your lovebank so that if and when the affair ends, you will have retained enough love for her to want to attempt reconciliation yourself.

Don't help her move and don't let her take hardly anything but her personal items. Divorce court and lawyers divide up marital property. She has no RIGHT to take them from the marital home. They are community property in your state. Make her pursue legally obtaining rights to them. Until then, she leaves with her clothes and very little kids stuff needed to take care of the kids only. No beds, no dressers, no couches....NOTHING. Change the locks when she leaves so she doesn't come back to get it.

Appeasement will get you no where. The harder it is the more tumultuous the whole situation is and the more likely OM is to dump her due to the hassle. Disrupting the affair but remaining calm is the key. NO LOVEBUSTERS but stand strong against her immoral decisions and don't assist her making them.

Mr. Wondering

Sonny,

How are you doing?

I know this is a tough day for you, but you can get through it.

Speak to us...

Hello...

Come in....


Mark

Well it has been tough. Thanksgiving has been special the last 4/5 years. Most of our families would come to our house and have dinner. The house would be filled with love ones. At then end of the night when everyone was gone and the kids were asleep we would make love. We consived 2 of our kids during Thanksgiving.

This year for sake of our 7yr old we had dinner only the 4 of us. It was not the same. She left to her sister soon after dinner. She still has not return. She starts moving tomorow. I don't know if I should start Plan B.

My love bank is realy hurting... I cant stop thinking of her with the OM. I can't stop thinking that she love him over me. How can I get her back.. She seems so gone now, so sure of herself, she must be proud of what she's doing. Lately I've been feeling numb. I can't discribe it. It's like I am in a daze.

Will I ever get her back???? I know I sound pitiful.

Prepare a Plan B. Start putting your thoughts on paper.

Things you need to consider:

Who will you get to be an intermediary between you and WW in regard to handing off the kids to each other.
What kind of financial plans do you need to make in order to supply for your children while not financing the affair?
What, besides the end of the affair will you need from her in order to take her back and begin working on the marriage?

When you get it together, folks here can help you to write a Plan B letter. Once you give it to her, you need to avoid seeing her, talking to her etc like the plague. What you put down on paper in your letter is what you will have to live with.

If you can spring for it, a call to Steve or Jennifer would do you a lot of good. They can cut to the chase and get more across in 45 minutes than a month of regular counseling. As an alternative, call or email Dr Harley's radio program. Nothing like getting it straight from the source when it comes to this stuff.

Have you looked into that day shift position? It would give you more leverage to have custodial custody of your children. They can be with you at night that way rather than with her and OM. It also gives you additional leverage against the affair because then she has to work seeing the kids into her schedule rather than you having to jump through hoops to see them. If she misses the kids enough, it might just cause her to think instead of just DOING what she feels like.

Keep a journal. Write down everything you do for your kids. Visits with them, things you buy, things you pay for though she buys them, times she gives you grief over seeing them...all of that becomes leverage.

In the mean time...Keep going on Plan A. Don't expect anything form your WW. No relationship talks. No discussions of lost love or any of that. Just give her pleasant conversation and show your love for her by your actions. Don't talk about it, do it.

When you go dark in Plan B, her last memory of you should be how nice you were and how supportive you were of her (not the affair or her leaving, but HER). She needs to remember you as a wonderful father to the kids as well. No arguing. No fighting. No trying to control her actions.

At the same time, do nothing to help her leave. Don't help her move. If she asks you to help, tell her you will not assist in the breakup of your family. (Make it about the family, BTW, not just you and her) Don't discuss divorce with her. Again..."I'm not willing to talk about breaking up our family."

But you probably also need to see a lawyer. You don;t have to file for divorce, but a real LSA would be nice. And insist on at least 50/50 custody. No "every other weekend and two holidays per year" crap.

You can still save your marriage Sonny. But that day shift job would really make it easier to do.


In any and all dealings with her...remain calm, cool and in control. No shouting. No arguing about anything. Under no circumstances advance toward her in a threatening manner. Make no threats, implicit or implied. I know you understand what I'm talking about. You need to be the good guys. Give her no reason to seek a restraining order or anything like that. I know you've seen those kind of things personally, so make sure you don't have any visits with warrants on your night off. Be Mr. Squeaky Clean..OK?

I'm going to be gone for the weekend. Others here can help you. Just call out for help. Somebody will be here for you. You can always email me. I check it a couple times per day from my phone, but call out to the folks here first.

Mark

Thanks, I am really hurting. Plan B sounds like more pain to come. I don't know if I can do it. Does Plan B ever work???

I feel so alone.

((((((Sonny)))))))

A giant hug for you, Sonny. I'm preparing to go into Plan B really soon and I'm terrified.

Charlotte, Be strong.. I know how hard it is... no one should go through what we are going through. I hope this will makes us stronger.

Should I bring down all of our pictures off he wall? I don't want to. It would feel like I have moved on, I don't want to move on, if that makes any sense.

What can I tell her in My Plan B letter. Can anyone give some examples of a good B letter. (preferably from someone with a success story)

Sonny,\

You have been given excellent advice and all you have done is question it and do NOTHING. You are going to lose your W, you are going to lose your children, and still you sit and say "plan b" sounds too hard, I don't know if I can do it.

Grow a set, and do some reading here. Plan B is about helping you preserve your love for your W so that you have a chance. Moving to day shift is about being with your children and having a chance to see them other than every other wed and every other weekend.

If you are going to just give up, the why are you here???

Expose the OM to who ever might have some influence and his minister is certainly one of those people. Get the day shift so that you can fight for your kids, and quit whinning and start doing. Your hurt, we get that, but your W doesn't care. Your kids are going to be hurting worse and YOU don't care, so where is the difference.

Does this sound harsh??? You should just be glad we are not face to face, I would be harsh then. Mr. if you want help you have it right here. If you don't want help just keep whinning and no help will be enough. YOU have to take some actions, you have to have a plan, YOU have to get off dead center and start standing on your hind legs again.

In short, IF you want this marriage, fight for it, and the thing you have to fight is you OWN D*** fear. Your worst enemy right now is YOU. Stop it, and get with it.

God Bless,

JL