Sometimes I think there's a BS fog too.
Sometimes the most obvious things are the easiest to overlook...

Completely understandable! You are doing great Try! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Mrs. W

First of all, I am sorry if you (or any of the senior members) feel that I have steered you in the wrong direction. Mr/Mrs W have much more experience at this than me, and you should listen to them.

I guess it just seemed from your posts, that you were sort of buying into her reasoning, which is not sound right now. As I said, I have just recently realized this myself, and have only posted to those that I felt I could help with that "fog" stage, as it is so very painful to loving BS's who are trying to pull their WW out of this destructive pattern. I also felt I was reiterating the Harley's position of having complete access to anything your spouse does, especially at this stage of trying to recover. Also to let your WW know that you mean business. But Mrs. W is right, tread lightly...I don't want you to completely alienate her and give her more reason to continue what she is doing.

I wish you all the best and if I can be of any assistance (if you decide to block the Myspace site) please let me know. I am so sorry for all that you are going through.

Once again, I apologize and will bow out of this discussion in lieu of more experienced members.

Good luck and God bless!

Still_Singing...Don't you dare go!!! Your perspective is very valuable-I'm certain Try would like to hear it...If I don't agree with something you say, I'll sure let ya know! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> You are free to do the same with me! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> The MB principles will be our guide, k? I just told ya that I would love to see another couple posting around here-I meant that...You can help others as well as yourself...

Mrs. W

Oh, I didn't mean completely go! Heck, I'm just getting warmed up <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I just don't want to be an oversteppin' newbie, ya know. And Try is going thru so much right now, so I think he would be better off in your hands for now. You have had much more time to process and therefore have more perspective on this than me.

Thanks, though, I appreciate your welcoming response!!

Well, I sent two emails last night, and have grave regrets about one.
The first I sent to WW spelling out (with much help from you all) how "Trying" to stop flirting wasn't enough for me, I want to save our family, etc. I had intended to post it for you all to dissect, but forgot to copy myself on it. ( I can't access Myspace on my work computer).
In all I thought it was well written, made my case. wasn't hurtful etc.
The problem is the 2nd email I sent.
I sent one to OM2 amnd asked him to back off. Here is that string:

Dec 11, 2007 10:58 PM
Flag as Spam or Report Abuse [ ? ]
Subject:
RE: No Subject
Body:
what? where did this come from. I don't know you and
judging by this email, I don't think I'd want to.
This is myspace, where people communicate with old
friends, make new friends, and do a lot of harmless
chating. Then again I am new to myspace, maybe people
do get messages from spouses asking them to cease
contact. wow!
You mentioned you're going through a difficult time,
I'm sorry about that. Maybe things would be better if
you didn't police her myspace page. No ill feelings.
fading out, at least for the time being.

(OM2)

----------------- Original Message -----------------
From: (BS)
Date: Dec 11, 2007 7:08 PM


Hi again.
Just so there's no confusion, I am (WW's) husband.
We've been married for over 6 years, and have been
together for almost 10. There's a few pics of me on
her site if you'd like to confirm...

Without getting into detail, I am going to ask you to
please cease contact with her. She will probably
continue to send messages, but please resist the urge
to reply if you would.
We are going through a difficult time together, and
again I ask that you please fade out at least for the
time being. I know you don't know me, nor do I know
you, and I have no ill feelings towards you.
I don't know how well you know her, in fact she never
mentioned you until after her recent trip back to OR,
so I don't imagine I'm really asking that much. It's
not like you guys are as close as she and (best friend) for
example.
Obviously I can't prevent you from contacting her or
sharing my request of you with her. I ask that you
please don't however.
I love her deeply, and would really appreciate you
honoring this request.
Thank you from me and our son (son).

Obviously I eliminated the specific names, but it's the actual email otherwise.

The thing is, he also sent WW an email, revealing my request of him, which, not surprisingly, upset my wife a great deal.
I regret not letting the email to her sink in for a few days before deciding whether to send the one to OM2.
Early this mmoring I reviewed internet history and there really was nothing incriminating in her most recent dialogue w/OM2. Maybe I'm reading way too much in to this as WW suggests.
I'm really doubting my ability to be objective, and do what really is right with the goal of fixing our M.
I don't like the person I'm becoming.
Sometimes I feel like and insane, suspicious, jealous guy with no sense of reality.
I know I hurt her, and damaged my level of trustworthiness with her. I'm supposed to be showing that I can be a safe place for her.
I achieved just the opposite.
What the ****** can I do?
If I had just waited to send (him) that email, I may not have done it at all.
I don't know that there was anything more to her emailing him than just that.
I feel that I've only created a smokescreen for my important email (hers), and that all in that one will be overlooked because of the stir this other one has created. I feel really dumb for doing that...

I really need some help.
We did talk about it this morning. I told her that although what I am doing in trying to fix us might not be just right sometime, WHY I am doing it is. I'm not perfect, I'm certainly not an expert at how to mend a broken marriage. that I want to try. I also mentioned that our counseling is only focusing only on my not meeting her needs, and I feel like we need to address her actions as well.
Am I just completely out of my mind????

Remember no expectations.

You did good...you stood up for yourself.

That took courage. Courage is found in taking action.

You are not the first to regret taking action. Wayward wives in particular have a habit of punishing their BH's for doing so. It's purely a manipulation tactic to ATTEMPT to keep you from doing it again. HER behavior was and is wrong. Standing up for your family...uncatergorically...NOT WRONG.

Trust me....6 months from now...now matter what your marriage situation is at that time...you won't regret taking action and sending OM that email.

His response that it myspace is just "harmless chatting" is a ridiculous and immature response to a husband contacting him letting him know it's hurtful.

Mr. Wondering

I agree, try! Good for you!!

If this was good, why do I feel so dreadful?
I feel like I keep shooting myself in the foot. All I want to do is pull her closer, but it seems like whatever I do ends up pushing her farther away.
I know it's too late now, but should I have taken a while to send the 2nd email? Maybe I AM reading more into it then is there.
This has completely distracted the focus from my email to WW (which I thought was good), and her actions, to me and mine.
NOT what I wanted to achieve.
I feel like I can't do anything right.
I am not at all happy with who this situation is making me become. I'm suspicious, jealous, hurt, angry, and am definitely NOT anyone I'd want to fall in love with.

I don't want to be the reason my marriage fails...

You feel "dreadful" because you are a husband that loves his wife and WANTS desperately to make her happy. To see her upset with you makes you feel like you are not being a good husband. This is a natural conditioned response.

Happy wife = happy life.

But trying to make her happy now is disingenuous. It's enabling and hurtful to you (and her).

She doesn't realize it but you are TRYING to save her as you vowed to do on your wedding day. Your actions are LOVING, not controlling. You are demonstrating and living up to the vow "for better or worse". This is "worse" and yet you still love her.

Your actions are honorable despite your wife's upset.

Your marriage can survive her anger.

In contrast, it can't survive her continued disrespect and adultery.

End the affair(s), get the third parties OUT...

THEN, recover your marriage.

Mr. Wondering

You are so right.
It kills me to see her upset or in pain. This is why I warned her about this guy in the first place...
To know that I am the source of ANY pain to her is unbearable.
I can't really see myself ever giving up on "US". I wonder sometimes if she sees this and it's enabling her.
I just know I'm an absolute wreck these days. I'm obsessed, I can't think straight, I'm not able to focus at work...
Everything sucks right now and I'm having trouble coping.
Merry F-ing Christmas...
(Sorry for that one)

By the way, she is in day 11 of NC w/OM.
I'm not sure if I should count email guy as an affair. I'm thinking that I might be seeing more than is there. (or is this just self doubt / negative self talk cropping up?)

Any suggestions on how to approach WW on the subject of erasing the internet history?
I checked as I was suspicious and found that she was looking at information regarding specific situations regarding pregnancy. Ordinarily I would not be suspicious about this as we've been trying to conceive unsuccesfully for about a year.
What I find troubling is that she felt the need to erase the history, thus hiding it from me, and also that the specific question she posted doesn't seem to fit any recent scenario I can think of. I may be seeing something that's not there, but I want to be as sure as I can.
How do I ask her "what she erased and why" to find out if she lies about it and if not what the issue is with secrecy.
One problem is, how do I let her know that I know what she was looking at without tipping my hand about snooping software...

T2H,

keyloggers are cheap... the free ones are easily detectable unless she is an uber noob... decent ones will cost around $30 and up

in the early days of NC, you gotta have more than her word IMO

I've already got software installed.
My question was how to find out why she was checking out what she was WITHOUT tipping my hand that software is on there.
How could I know unless I were spying, right?
I don't want her to know that I'm snooping. That would totally blow the cover.
Do I just ask what she erased and let her answer speak for itself?
I'd like to pursue why she feels it necessary to erase pregnancy info.
It makes me wonder if she's now in PA...

It worries me too...but asking her will get you nothing.

If she is in a PA...she WON'T tell you.

Keep quiet on the questions.

You WILL know someday and you are more likely to get real answers snooping than from her.

Patience.

Get a grip. This is the 4th quarter of the biggest game in your life.

Do you shrivel to the challenge or man up for the fight?

I know I was shaking but I tried to keep my composure.

Desperation is NOT attractive.

Re read my plan A do's and don't list and comply. Spend that energy reading Dr. Harley's information on the main website. Educate and prepare yourself for this battle. It ain't going to fix itself overnight. Get the skills you need to prevail.

Mr. Wondering

Well, I think I'm about to throw in the towel. Met my WW at her counselor's to watch our two year old so he wouldn't have to be in on her IC session. She had stopped by her old work (where OM still works). I asked her if he was there, and she said no. (Of course not, We're doing NC...)
On the way to get my son a cheeseburger (his request), I noticed that OM's car was at "work".
When I asked her again later about seeing his car, miraculously her memory came back and she said he was there, and "just stopped in to talk for a few minutes"
She just doesn't get it. This has been going on for over four months.
WW said her counselor thinks that my "overreaction" to her "friendship" with OM is probably based on some inner issue I have being "triggered"... Good to know she's getting such good advice on MY dime. I will end the gravy train for that quack immediately.
Apparently this is my problem.
I've had enough.
I know Christmas is coming up and I don't want it to always be a bad memory for my son, but I need something to change. WW in still will not accept any responsibility for her actions. Any issue I mention gets twisted and thrown back at me.
She doesn't seem to get that if she would just end the affair we can get back to having a healthy, rewarding and happy life together. (with commitment and work).
I am completely appalled and ashamed of her. I was actually surprised at how little emotion finding out about her visiting mr. sunshine invoked in me.
I think I've been so hardened by her indifference to my feelings, that it doesn't really hurt as it should anymore.
It is an absolute shame that her selfish actions will ruin what could have continued to be one of the great romances of our time...
What a waste.
Someone have anything for me?
Next steps?
What do do to REALLY prepare for Plan B?

email me at the address below from a private secure webbased email account.

Your wife KNOWS about MB so I want to communicate with you in private.

Mr. Wondering

p.s. - BTW...you indicated that WW said her counselor said that crap. WW's have a tendency to hear what they want to hear and ignore the rest. SHE's likely the one that said it and counselor was just nodding and listening. You should call the guy yourself with the understanding that he can't really tell you much about her private sessions but you can inform him or her likely misrepresentation. She's gaslighting you. Plain and simple and I doubt very much the counselor said that (though there are plenty of quacks out there).

Mr. W,
Done.
Check it.
Thanks.

PLAN A is allllllllllllll about contact between spouse and OP

PLAN A is allllllllllllll about not confronting nebulous notions...(flirting) and is about making the home environment a safe place for the WS where the foundation is layed for the ability to have real conversations down the line...and there aren't all these memories of conflict after conflict after conflict...
and how bad bad bad the WS is,,.\
day after day
never a positive thing

PLAN A is allllllllllllll about hope in showing your spouse the ability to forgive when truth is sought.....

it is not about power struggling minute actions
it is not about expecting anything....

You spent way way way way too much energy these past couple of days not focused on plan A and focused on flirting...

your wife flirts...no big surprise as she is far removed from feeling the value of being married......

yep and none of this is fair to you
or right or anything good for you...

but it is what it is....

you can prepare for plan B if you choose...but you aren't really in plan A....very much.....

ARK^^